[NFBCS] {Spam?} Re: {Spam?} Re: NFBCS RE: Inaccessible websites

Christopher Chaltain chaltain at outlook.com
Mon Apr 4 17:53:59 UTC 2022 

That's why it's always best to ask before assuming a whole bunch of people are doing something that just doesn't make any sense.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ)
Chaltain at Outlook

-----Original Message-----
From: NFBCS <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Amanda Lacy via NFBCS
Sent: Monday, April 4, 2022 12:44 PM
To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NFBCS] {Spam?} Re: {Spam?} Re: NFBCS RE: Inaccessible websites

Donald, that's quite weird that the server keeps adding the word "spam." I had assumed that someone was replying from their spam folder for some reason.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 4, 2022, at 10:54 AM, Donald Winiecki via NFBCS <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> That "{Spam?}" thing is happening at the NFB's mailserver. Nobody in 
> this group is causing that.
> 
> They will have to fix their settings to solve the issue.
> 
> Best,
> 
> _don
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 9:49 AM Amanda Lacy via NFBCS 
>> <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Y'all,  cut it out with the repeated  "spam" in braces in the subject 
>> line. It makes no sense.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 4, 2022, at 10:26 AM, Derrick Day via NFBCS 
>>> <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Without having full knowledge of your situation, I will tell you 
>>> that
>> different screen readers tend to be better at working with websites 
>> generated by different code generators. WordPress actually has a 
>> plugin that businesses can implement that is specifically designed 
>> for NVDA and I believe Go Daddy does as well but I have limited experience with that one.
>> The challenge is that anyone can make WordPress plugins and often 
>> times, its these independent developers who make addons which brings 
>> down a website that uses these implementations. Its kind of like the 
>> weakest link in the chain kind of thing. Going after the providers is 
>> probably not going to yield the expected results because these 
>> platforms only a generate a fraction of the code on a site. Just as 
>> Microsoft is not responsible for a faulty piece of software that you 
>> install on your computer, Go Daddy can’t really do much about John 
>> Smith’s inaccessible plugin. If legislation is passed, hopefully 
>> websites will be forced to boycott these bad plugins which will run 
>> there business into the ground but this is going to be extremely 
>> messy to fix and I have a hard time believing that the government will maintain the game of WackaMole.
>>> More focus on teaching good accessible coding practices would help 
>>> but
>> until we can use financial pressure as leverage, I don’t think we 
>> will see much success. Has anyone used any good accessible website 
>> builders? I have used WordPress in the past which is good, but I was 
>> wondering if anyone has ever had any success with any others.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Derrick C. Day
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: NFBCS <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> on behalf of Lewis Wood via
>> NFBCS <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, April 4, 2022 9:23:42 AM
>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Lewis Wood <lewislwood at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: [NFBCS] {Spam?} RE: {Spam?} RE: {Spam?} RE: Inaccessible
>> websites
>>> 
>>> If businesses are using code generators, that means it should be a
>> cheaper fix. Since we can target the code generators and impact their 
>> business model.
>>> 
>>> For example React generates Html and gives control down to the html
>> layer.  Perhaps the React designers should automatically analyze 
>> their code for accessibility standards and notify the developer with warnings.
>>> This way as a legal point when the business is approached and they 
>>> claim
>> no knowledge, we can show the developer warning flags. This way the 
>> business confronts their developer company and sues them to be compliant.
>>> 
>>> Meantime I will continue to do workarounds such as jaws to cursor 
>>> and
>> move around to figure what I am typing in. Or use be my eyes.
>>> 
>>> Lewis Wood
>>> lewislwood at gmail.com
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NFBCS <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Larry Wayland 
>>> via
>> NFBCS
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 3, 2022 11:24 PM
>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Larry Wayland <lhwayland at sbcglobal.net>
>>> Subject: [NFBCS] {Spam?} RE: {Spam?} RE: Inaccessible websites
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hello:
>>> I absolutely agree.  I read a couple of weeks ago somewhere. I'm 
>>> sorry,
>> I don't remember where.  That only 2 percent of web sites are 
>> completely accessible.
>>> Yes Tracy we should be yelling loud and clear.
>>> Larry
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NFBCS [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Curtis 
>>> Chong
>> via NFBCS
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 3, 2022 1:50 PM
>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Curtis Chong <chong.curtis at gmail.com>; 'Tracy Carcione' <
>> carcione at access.net>
>>> Subject: [NFBCS] {Spam?} RE: Inaccessible websites
>>> 
>>> Hello:
>>> 
>>> One of the interesting and vexing issues we are having to confront 
>>> has
>> to do with the software used to create websites. It is becoming 
>> increasingly the case that companies use a tool that is designed to 
>> make it easier for them to put up and manage their websites. Thus, 
>> what we see are folks who do not look directly at the HTML code which 
>> they need to examine to ensure accessibility. There are 
>> well-documented ways to accessibly code link, radio buttons, and 
>> other controls on a web page, but the documentation does not consider 
>> that the developer may be one or two layers removed from the HTML 
>> that is ultimately created by the development software.
>>> 
>>> In theory, development tools should, by default, generate HTML that
>> meets all of the accessibility requirements of WCAG. But, to a 
>> growing extent, we are being confronted with, as Tracy correctly 
>> points out, an ever-growing number of sites that are not completely 
>> accessible to the blind.
>>> 
>>> Federal regulations and legislation requiring accessibility are but 
>>> the
>> first step to addressing this problem.
>>> 
>>> Respectfully,
>>> 
>>> Curtis Chong
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NFBCS <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione 
>>> via
>> NFBCS
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2022 11:21 AM
>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [NFBCS] Inaccessible websites
>>> 
>>> I would settle for having someone to contact who would do something.
>> With a small business, that’s possible, but then they may not have 
>> the resources or know-how to do anything about it.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I know NFB files lawsuits about this, and that’s great.  But the 
>>> number
>> of problems seems to dwarf the number of lawsuits.  Last time I 
>> brought this up, some people said I should try public shaming on 
>> Twitter.  Is there a hashtag inaccessible, or something like that?
>>> 
>>> Really, I hear constantly on the news about this or that minority
>> yelling about something, but it’s never disabled people yelling about 
>> inaccessibility.  Shouldn’t we be yelling too?
>>> 
>>> Tracy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: NFBCS [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Richard R.
>> Thomas via NFBCS
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2022 12:53 PM
>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>>> Cc: Richard R. Thomas
>>> Subject: [NFBCS] {Spam?} RE: Inaccessible websites
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I ditto what you said Tracy.
>>> 
>>> I am finding sites with links that do nothing more and more lately.
>>> 
>>> One site I pay for services for was accessible but now has some type 
>>> of
>> text field at the top of each page where they have at least text and 
>> likely links and other objects.
>>> 
>>> All I hear is something about a magnifying glass and nothing else 
>>> inside
>> what sounds like a text box.
>>> 
>>> I sent them several  messages about it and they replied for me to 
>>> watch
>> their notifications but after quite some time their messages are just 
>> ads for the most part,
>>> 
>>> Some new features for sighted users (which sound more and more
>> inaccessible)  and nothing about accessibility at all.
>>> 
>>> You are right on!
>>> 
>>> I too hope some legislation will be implemented but I’m not holding 
>>> my
>> breath.
>>> 
>>> Too bad the big blind organizations are not more up front and loud 
>>> in
>> the media about the problems and hitting more companies with more and 
>> more legal actions, sigh.
>>> 
>>> From what I have heard it may not be possible for a small individual 
>>> to
>> file a successful suit against most of these companies.
>>> 
>>> Richard R. Thomas (Rick USA)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from Mail 
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>>> o.microsoft.com%2Ffwlink%2F%3FLinkId%3D550986&data=04%7C01%7C%7C
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>>> for
>> Windows
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Tracy Carcione via NFBCS <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 3, 2022 10:54 AM
>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <mailto:carcione at access.net>
>>> Subject: [NFBCS] Inaccessible websites
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I am finding more and more inaccessible websites.  I try them with
>> Firefox
>>> 
>>> and Chrome, and no joy.  Buttons go nowhere.  Links to pop-up menus 
>>> do
>>> 
>>> nothing.  Formfields say they're form fields, but I can't type in them.
>>> 
>>> It's very frustrating.  Big companies or small businesses, it's all
>>> 
>>> hit-or-miss.  I sure hope our legislation passes about this, but 
>>> even
>> then
>>> 
>>> it will take years to have an effect.  And meantime I either don't 
>>> shop
>>> 
>>> where I want, or I pay AIRA to help me.  It's making me nuts.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Tracy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> NFBCS mailing list
>>> 
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