[NFBCS] Inaccessible websites

Mon Apr 4 20:27:36 UTC 2022

The mail list software was putting it in, I think I have it prevented now.

Dave

At 10:48 AM 4/4/2022, Amanda Lacy via NFBCS wrote:
>Y'all,  cut it out with the repeated  "spam" in 
>braces in the subject line. It makes no sense. 
>Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 4, 2022, at 10:26 
>AM, Derrick Day via NFBCS <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> 
>wrote: > > ï»¿Without having full knowledge of 
>your situation, I will tell you that different 
>screen readers tend to be better at working with 
>websites generated by different code generators. 
>WordPress actually has a plugin that businesses 
>can implement that is specifically designed for 
>NVDA and I believe Go Daddy does as well but I 
>have limited experience with that one. The 
>challenge is that anyone can make WordPress 
>plugins and often times, its these independent 
>developers who make addons which brings down a 
>website that uses these implementations. Its 
>kind of like the weakest link in the chain kind 
>of thing. Going after the providers is probably 
>not going to yield the expected results because 
>these platforms only a generate a fraction of 
>the code on a site. Just as Microsoft is not 
>responsible for a faulty piece of software that 
>you install on your computer, Go Daddy canâ€™t 
>really do much about John Smithâ€™s inaccessible 
>plugin. If legislation is passed, hopefully 
>websites will be forced to boycott these bad 
>plugins which will run there business into the 
>ground but this is going to be extremely messy 
>to fix and I have a hard time believing that the 
>government will maintain the game of 
>WackaMole. > More focus on teaching good 
>accessible coding practices would help but until 
>we can use financial pressure as leverage, I 
>donâ€™t think we will see much success. Has 
>anyone used any good accessible website 
>builders? I have used WordPress in the past 
>which is good, but I was wondering if anyone has 
>ever had any success with any others. > > 
>Thanks, > Derrick C. Day > > 
>________________________________ > From: NFBCS 
><nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> on behalf of Lewis 
>Wood via NFBCS <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> > Sent: 
>Monday, April 4, 2022 9:23:42 AM > To: 'NFB in 
>Computer Science Mailing List' 
><nfbcs at nfbnet.org> > Cc: Lewis Wood 
><lewislwood at gmail.com> > Subject: [NFBCS] 
>{Spam?} RE: {Spam?} RE: {Spam?} RE: Inaccessible 
>websites > > If businesses are using code 
>generators, that means it should be a cheaper 
>fix. Since we can target the code generators and 
>impact their business model. > > For example 
>React generates Html and gives control down to 
>the html layer.  Perhaps the React designers 
>should automatically analyze their code for 
>accessibility standards and notify the developer 
>with warnings. > This way as a legal point when 
>the business is approached and they claim no 
>knowledge, we can show the developer warning 
>flags. This way the business confronts their 
>developer company and sues them to be 
>compliant. > > Meantime I will continue to do 
>workarounds such as jaws to cursor and move 
>around to figure what I am typing in. Or use be 
>my eyes. > > Lewis Wood > 
>lewislwood at gmail.com > > -----Original 
>Message----- > From: NFBCS 
><nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Larry 
>Wayland via NFBCS > Sent: Sunday, April 3, 2022 
>11:24 PM > To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing 
>List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> > Cc: Larry Wayland 
><lhwayland at sbcglobal.net> > Subject: [NFBCS] 
>{Spam?} RE: {Spam?} RE: Inaccessible 
>websites > > > Hello: > I absolutely agree.  I 
>read a couple of weeks ago somewhere. I'm sorry, 
>I don't remember where.  That only 2 percent of 
>web sites are completely accessible. > Yes Tracy 
>we should be yelling loud and clear. > 
>Larry > > > -----Original Message----- > From: 
>NFBCS [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>Behalf Of Curtis Chong via NFBCS > Sent: Sunday, 
>April 3, 2022 1:50 PM > To: 'NFB in Computer 
>Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> > Cc: 
>Curtis Chong <chong.curtis at gmail.com>; 'Tracy 
>Carcione' <carcione at access.net> > Subject: 
>[NFBCS] {Spam?} RE: Inaccessible websites > > 
>Hello: > > One of the interesting and vexing 
>issues we are having to confront has to do with 
>the software used to create websites. It is 
>becoming increasingly the case that companies 
>use a tool that is designed to make it easier 
>for them to put up and manage their websites. 
>Thus, what we see are folks who do not look 
>directly at the HTML code which they need to 
>examine to ensure accessibility. There are 
>well-documented ways to accessibly code link, 
>radio buttons, and other controls on a web page, 
>but the documentation does not consider that the 
>developer may be one or two layers removed from 
>the HTML that is ultimately created by the 
>development software. > > In theory, development 
>tools should, by default, generate HTML that 
>meets all of the accessibility requirements of 
>WCAG. But, to a growing extent, we are being 
>confronted with, as Tracy correctly points out, 
>an ever-growing number of sites that are not 
>completely accessible to the blind. > > Federal 
>regulations and legislation requiring 
>accessibility are but the first step to 
>addressing this problem. > > Respectfully, > > 
>Curtis Chong > > -----Original Message----- > 
>From: NFBCS <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf 
>Of Tracy Carcione via NFBCS > Sent: Sunday, 
>April 03, 2022 11:21 AM > To: 'NFB in Computer 
>Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> > Cc: 
>Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> > Subject: 
>Re: [NFBCS] Inaccessible websites > > I would 
>settle for having someone to contact who would 
>do something.  With a small business, thatâ€™s 
>possible, but then they may not have the 
>resources or know-how to do anything about 
>it. > > > > I know NFB files lawsuits about 
>this, and thatâ€™s great.  But the number of 
>problems seems to dwarf the number of 
>lawsuits.  Last time I brought this up, some 
>people said I should try public shaming on 
>Twitter.  Is there a hashtag inaccessible, or 
>something like that? > > Really, I hear 
>constantly on the news about this or that 
>minority yelling about something, but itâ€™s 
>never disabled people yelling about 
>inaccessibility.  Shouldnâ€™t we be yelling 
>too? > > Tracy > > > > > > From: NFBCS 
>[mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>Richard R. Thomas via NFBCS > Sent: Sunday, 
>April 03, 2022 12:53 PM > To: NFB in Computer 
>Science Mailing List > Cc: Richard R. Thomas > 
>Subject: [NFBCS] {Spam?} RE: Inaccessible 
>websites > > > > I ditto what you said 
>Tracy. > > I am finding sites with links that do 
>nothing more and more lately. > > One site I pay 
>for services for was accessible but now has some 
>type of text field at the top of each page where 
>they have at least text and likely links and 
>other objects. > > All I hear is something about 
>a magnifying glass and nothing else inside what 
>sounds like a text box. > > I sent them 
>several  messages about it and they replied for 
>me to watch their notifications but after quite 
>some time their messages are just ads for the 
>most part, > > Some new features for sighted 
>users (which sound more and more 
>inaccessible)  and nothing about accessibility 
>at all. > > You are right on! > > I too hope 
>some legislation will be implemented but Iâ€™m 
>not holding my breath. > > Too bad the big blind 
>organizations are not more up front and loud in 
>the media about the problems and hitting more 
>companies with more and more legal actions, 
>sigh. > > From what I have heard it may not be 
>possible for a small individual to file a 
>successful suit against most of these 
>companies. > > Richard R. Thomas (Rick 
>USA) > > > > Sent from Mail 
><https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> 
>  for Windows > > > > From: Tracy Carcione via 
>NFBCS <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> > Sent: Sunday, 
>April 3, 2022 10:54 AM > To: NFB in Computer 
>Science Mailing List <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> > 
>Cc: Tracy Carcione 
><mailto:carcione at access.net> > Subject: [NFBCS] 
>Inaccessible websites > > > > I am finding more 
>and more inaccessible websites.  I try them with 
>Firefox > > and Chrome, and no joy.  Buttons go 
>nowhere.  Links to pop-up menus do > > 
>nothing.  Formfields say they're form fields, 
>but I can't type in them. > > It's very 
>frustrating.  Big companies or small businesses, 
>it's all > > hit-or-miss.  I sure hope our 
>legislation passes about this, but even then > > 
>it will take years to have an effect.  And 
>meantime I either don't shop > > where I want, 
>or I pay AIRA to help me.  It's making me nuts. > > > > Tracy > > > > > >