[NFBCS] Linux Screen Readers

Mon Aug 29 14:26:03 UTC 2022

Bryan,

Orca updates are released several times a year.
The schedule of Orca's major releases is synchronized with the schedule of the GNOME graphical environment.
The development of Orca is financed by Igalia company. Due to this, the project has one developer with a salary. This provides a certain level of stability for the development process.
The Odilia and the Harpun alternative screen reader projects started about a year ago and today they are only research projects with small prototypes.
None of them can yet offer a workable alternative to the Orca screen reader for everyday use.

The accessibility and responsiveness of interfaces depends not only on the screen reader, but also on the application itself.
In particular, in 2020, a new major version of the GTK 4 framework was released, in which the accessibility layer was completely rewritten. This is expected to improve the stability and accessibility of interfaces based on it when used with screen readers.
You can read more about it here - https://blog.gtk.org/2020/02/17/gtk-hackfest-2020-roadmap-and-accessibility/
and here - https://blog.gtk.org/2020/10/21/accessibility-in-gtk-4/
There is also an active refactoring of accessibility layer in the GNOME graphical environment eco-system.
You can read more about it here - https://viruta.org/paying-technical-debt-transcript.html
The materials at these links are well covered problems that prevent sufficient stability and accessibility of graphical interfaces on Linux.
Not all of these problems depend on screen readers.

Sincerely, Nikita.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Duarte <bryan0731 at gmail.com> 
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2022 2:14 AM
To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Nikita <nikitamailings at yandex.com>
Subject: Re: [NFBCS] Linux Screen Readers

Nikita,

Thank you so much for your feedback as well. I am familiar with Orca although I have not used it in years. I am glad to hear it may have been updated since then. Primarily my issue with it was the cumbersome keystrokes and complex method of navigating the interface. Between the multiple cursor or reading modes made it difficult to know why I was not getting the speech feedback I was looking for. Perhaps i need to give it another try. I would be happy to contribute to the Orca development if there are others actively working it. 

Do you have any first hand experience with the other two screen reader projects you mentioned? I have never heard of either of them. Admittedly Rust programming is not my strong suit but I am sure I could learn if there was good potential for leveraging that framework for a Linux screen reader. 

Thank you again for your response.

> On Aug 22, 2022, at 11:22 AM, Nikita via NFBCS <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Bryan,
> 
> The main screen reader for Linux graphical environments is Orca. It is open source project, so you might want to consider contributing to its development.
> The development of Orca is carried out in Python.
> Here is its official repository - 
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/orca/__;!!I
> KRxdwAv5BmarQ!f1ill5ow-jw1uHJ5PuyCoLi6hRx0R1Qi9j7qS2iBwVrJTDLNIPGxguvR
> 2frhG6q2g-uafx5ZZnMsug$
> 
> Also last year, two open source projects appeared to develop a new screen reader for Linux from scratch.
> Both projects focus on Rust as their primary development language. Possible addition of plugins in the Lua language.
> You can explore the existing prototypes of these projects and join one of them.
> The more active of the two projects is the Odilia (former Yggdrasil). 
> Here is its official website - 
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://odilia.app/__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!f1i
> ll5ow-jw1uHJ5PuyCoLi6hRx0R1Qi9j7qS2iBwVrJTDLNIPGxguvR2frhG6q2g-uafx6fv
> _uM7w$ and organization on GitHub - 
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/odilia-app/__;!!IKRxdwA
> v5BmarQ!f1ill5ow-jw1uHJ5PuyCoLi6hRx0R1Qi9j7qS2iBwVrJTDLNIPGxguvR2frhG6
> q2g-uafx5RPwBb6w$ Less active of the two projects is the Harpoon. Here 
> is its repository - 
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/hjozwiak/harpoon/__;!!I
> KRxdwAv5BmarQ!f1ill5ow-jw1uHJ5PuyCoLi6hRx0R1Qi9j7qS2iBwVrJTDLNIPGxguvR
> 2frhG6q2g-uafx4cVLlYZw$
> 
> If you think you have a completely new perspective on solving Linux GUI accessibility issues, you can start your own screen reader project, but putting together another full-fledged team of like-minded people will be quite difficult. At least in the absence of funding.
> 
> Also an important part of efforts to improve the accessibility of Linux graphical user interfaces  is the refinement of infrastructure technologies such as AT-SPI or Wayland (actively developed alternative for X.org), as well as the GUI frameworks, graphical environments and applications themselves.
> 
> Sincerely, Nikita.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NFBCS <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Bryan Duarte via 
> NFBCS
> Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2022 7:34 PM
> To: Jim Barbour <jbar at barcore.com>
> Cc: Bryan Duarte <bjduarte at asu.edu>; NFB in Computer Science Mailing 
> List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NFBCS] Linux Screen Readers
> 
> Thanks Jim for your response. I was pretty sure this was the case but I wanted to check anyways. I am wondering if there is any interest in putting together a team of people to build a Linux screen reader for X windows? I do not know exactly what is required to build a screen reader but I know I could figure it out. I also do not believe it is a project I would be able to handle on my own. Is there any interest from this group before I search else where for interested folks? Thanks everyone I know this is a big ask but I blieve it is long over due for Linux X windows to have full desktop aaccess for screen reader users.  
> 
> Bryan Duarte Ph.D. 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 21, 2022, at 9:00 AM, Jim Barbour <jbar at barcore.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I am not aware of any screen readers that work well with X windows, except for orca. Orca runs on top of gnome, which imposes extra rules on its clients so that the necessary data is made available to orca.
>> 
>> There are, in my opinion, better commandline screen meters. YASR is a good one. But again, it only works in a terminal. 
>> 
>> Sorry I don’t have better news,
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> Written while on the move,,
>> 
>>>> On Aug 21, 2022, at 4:03 AM, Bryan Duarte via NFBCS <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>   This email is primarily directed to those who are Linux users who rely on a screen reader. Although I have been using Linux for years, I have really only done so through the command line via remote connection. I know there are different screen readers such as Orca or speakup however, Orca needs to be updated in how it functions, and SpeakUp only works in the command line which does not help much when I already have access to the command line. 
>>>> 
>>>> My question is this… What screen readers are you all using to 
>>>> access the full Desktop Linux operating systems? My second question 
>>>> is, why hasn’t there been any work in developing a newer and better 
>>>> performing screen reader for the Linux desktop environment? I feel 
>>>> like it has to do with the fact that it would need to be maintained 
>>>> independently and there are not many people who care enough in the 
>>>> Linux developers network to take that on… Either way I hope someone 
>>>> here has some good news for me. Thanks ya'll
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Bryan Duarte Ph.D.
>>> 
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