[NFBCS] Inaccessible websites

Reece O'Bryan reeceobryan at icloud.com
Wed Jan 5 10:16:54 UTC 2022 

Again, I really would suggest you don’t give your money to any organization that doesn’t care about your human rights. First though, give them the needed notice and suggestion on what needs work and where, you can’t fault them as much if it isn’t told to them. Example, the captcha could be replaced with Google Recaptcha which is both easy to implement and accessible.

If the organization is over 50 employees or given any amount of federal funding, then they deserve an ADA complaint if not promptly addressed.

What really needs to happen is for Apple and Google to implement mandatory, basic accessibility with their OS native screen readers, VoiceOver and Talk Back and the company’s related app stores. If Google and Apple instituted mandatory, albeit basic accessibility checks, before any apps were accepted in their respective app stores, then we would have massive success.

Thank you,

-Reece O’Bryan
C: (502)-827-3724
1645 Parkway, Sevierville, TN 37862



> On Jan 2, 2022, at 10:38 AM, Tracy Carcione via NFBCS <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I tried to give money to 4 organizations, and was stopped every time by their websites.  One was our local volunteer ambulance corps.  They're small, so I wasn't too surprised.  One was a local PBS station, and they actually have contact links, so I'll try that.  Two are national organizations, and I have yet to find contact links for them.  There weren't any on the donation websites.  I'll look, or try what Paul suggests.  
> It was really disheartening, especially as the last 3 make a great fuss about "diversity and inclusion", though experience tells me that "diversity and inclusion" seldom includes disabled people.  The PBS website stopped me because they had an image-only captcha.  I mean, how clueless can you get?!  
> Why do much smaller minorities get more attention than disabled people do?  Is there a way we can raise our profile?  Maybe Paul's idea of #inaccessible is a good way to go?  Really, I do exist, and I have a lot to give, if people would just stop putting up artificial barriers to stop me.
> Tracy
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NFBCS [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael McQuaid via NFBCS
> Sent: Friday, December 31, 2021 12:48 PM
> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
> Cc: Michael McQuaid
> Subject: Re: [NFBCS] Inaccessible websites
> 
> Teach Access (see https://teachaccess.org) is all about the educational
> approach. For example, I have received a TeachAccess grant to spend more of
> my time developing accessibility curriculum for my HCI courses. All the
> teaching materials from past TeachAccess grantees is available at the
> TeachAccess website. This approach is helpful, but other types of advocacy
> such as Paul mentions are also needed. I'm just afraid that, with the
> quickening pace of new technology, it's getting harder for
> accessibility-minded developers to keep up.
> 
> - Mick
> 
>> On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 11:26 AM Paul York via NFBCS <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I teach CS (and specifically Web Programming) at a university. Most
>> books/courses do spend some time discussing accessibility. I'd venture that
>> very few instructors force students to practice it. I'm blind I don't even
>> assess student performance/knowledge on it. It's a bit difficult given the
>> number of other things being taught. At best it'd be one or two questions
>> or a rubric item on a project.
>> 
>> Another good place might be in a Human Computer Interaction (HCI) course.
>> I've taught that, as well. Mostly focuses on usability issues for sighted,
>> but a fair amount of coverage is given to accessibility for the disabled.
>> That course though is so broad and focused on so many topics that again,
>> it'd be hard to assess student comprehension of the necessity for
>> accessibility in a meaningful way. Ditto for senior projects (only a few of
>> which would even involve web sites or mobile apps).
>> 
>> Hmm #AssessAccessibility. Fun near-homonym hashtag. :)
>> 
>> The actual process of adding accessibility to a website is really quite
>> simple. In the end it's just prioritizing it. And in that sense, it's
>> marketing executives that really need the education. Not CS students.
>> 
>> I've had some luck with polite Tweet-shaming:
>> 
>>   "I want to donate to @whoever but their web site isn't #accessible to
>> the #blind. Anyone know anyone at #whoever to contact?"
>> 
>> Something like that. Note the use of both @ and # with their name so that
>> it's broadcast both public and private. It goes directly to their marketing
>> folks and hurts them where marketing folks care: public perception. Often
>> they'll reply quickly and have someone contact you directly. It's kind of a
>> passive-aggressive stick in the "carrot and stick" metaphor. Just make sure
>> you put other stuff on Twitter or Instagram so you don't look like you just
>> use it for social shaming. ;)
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> PS: Regarding DOJ, of course you can try:
>> 
>> How to File an ADA Complaint with the Department of Justice
>> <https://www.ada.gov/fact_on_complaint.htm>
>> 
>> The challenge is that this is usually for significant violations. Since
>> Section 508 only applies to federal agencies, you'd have to show that this
>> is violating your civil rights. DOJ only have a limited bandwidth. I'm just
>> not sure there's a lot of "meat" in that approach.
>> 
>> On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 9:47 AM Aqil Sajjad via NFBCS <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> May be we need to approach this from different directions. One other
>> angle
>>> would be to try engaging with computer science or software engineering
>>> departments at universities and ask them to include accessibility as part
>>> of the standard coursework for any academic degree in programming. The
>>> other possible angle would be to pursue complaints at least against large
>>> websites or social media companies like twitter. But I don't know how
>> that
>>> works in actual practice and when it makes sense to file a case with the
>>> department of justice. Does anyone have any thoughts on that?
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NFBCS <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via
>>> NFBCS
>>> Sent: Friday, December 31, 2021 5:37 AM
>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [NFBCS] Inaccessible websites
>>> 
>>> Of course you are right, but I haven't had any success at contacting them
>>> in the past.  But I'll try again.
>>> Tracy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NFBCS [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Reece O'Bryan
>>> via NFBCS
>>> Sent: Friday, December 31, 2021 6:55 AM
>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>>> Cc: Reece O'Bryan; Tracy Carcione
>>> Subject: Re: [NFBCS] Inaccessible websites
>>> 
>>> Instead of writing your frustration to this list,whom I am quite sure are
>>> also aware of inaccessible websites and frustrations, then why not
>> contact
>>> the websites themselves with these exact issues?
>>> 
>>> Frame it as a way they are losing money and I am sure that they’ll
>> address
>>> it.
>>> 
>>> I just want to add that I also would definitely not be giving a donation
>>> to a company that cannot spend minuscule amounts of time to verify basic
>>> accessibility for screen readers.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thank you,
>>> 
>>> -Reece O’Bryan
>>> C: (502)-827-3724
>>> 1645 Parkway, Sevierville, TN 37862
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 30, 2021, at 11:50 AM, charles.vanek--- via NFBCS <
>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I hear you Tracy.  Kiva I thought sounded like a really cool
>>>> organization giving micro loans to people around the world.  So I
>>>> suggested it as a gift certificate opportunity to someone about 4-5
>>>> years ago... I come to find out that their site was inaccessible.  In
>>>> contacting Kiva their customer support had no way of helping to
>>>> resolve the problem.  So to this day there's $50 I have loaded into a
>>>> Kiva account that has never been loaned out to a worthy person.
>>>> 
>>>> Sad.  I don't know if anyone has used Kiva in the past few years and
>>>> found that they have fixed their site.
>>>> 
>>>> Anyway inaccessible site grumblings aside.  Have a Happy New Year
>>>> Tracy and all.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: NFBCS <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via
>>>> NFBCS
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2021 10:33 AM
>>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
>>>> Subject: [NFBCS] Inaccessible websites
>>>> 
>>>> Just grumbling.
>>>> 
>>>> This time of year, everyone and his cousin is asking for charitable
>>>> donations.  There are some I'd actually like to donate to, so I've
>>>> been to 2 of those organizations' websites and been unable to make a
>>>> donation.  On one, there's no way to specify the frequency of my
>>>> donation.  On another, I was unable to get to the form field to put in
>>> some of my credit card info.
>>>> 
>>>> While I could pay AIRA to help me do this, why should I?  If someone
>>>> wants my hard-earned cash, they ought to make it easy for me to hand it
>>> over.
>>>> Really, I am sick of these half-accessible websites.
>>>> 
>>>> Tracy
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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