[NFBCS] Feedback Request

[Michael Walker]

Hi Brian,

I really like your points on being more detailed, instead of just saying that a website is not accessible. In my work as an accessibility tester, I have QA sessions with customers. I walk through the parts of their website that they want me to test. I’m detailed on how a screen reader reads the information. I am on Zoom, sharing my screen and audio, so the customer can hear how everything interacts.

Outside of work, if I am informally providing accessibility feedback, I take detailed notes on what it is that I’m trying to accomplish, how I tried to do it, and what I’m not able to do.

I like the idea of trying to figure out how to index this mailing list, so answers can be googled like before.

Lastly, thank you for the tips on learning complex systems. I like the idea of looking for a bug to work on, or a problem to solve, instead of trying to learn the entire system. I like your ideas about islands of information. Also, like you said, breaking down the problem, instead of worrying about the solution right away, sounds like a great idea. I should have joined this mailing list a long time ago, when I was working my previous job. 

Mike 

> On Sep 6, 2022, at 3:01 PM, Brian Buhrow <buhrow at nfbcal.org> wrote:
> 
>     hello.  I'll write more later about this, but I want to stress that this discussion and
> project is not clogging up the nfbcs list.  This is exactly on topic, relatively speaking, for
> this list.  
>    And, actually, this discussion illustrates the point and challenge of a project like this.
> Everyone who has contributed that I've seen so far has brought an interesting perspective, and,
> often, another wrinkle in the problem of access.  And, as often happens, it comes out that many
> of the issues facing blind workers, computer users, citizens, blind folks in general, are
> social issues.  There are technical issues, but they usually end up being secondary to social
> issues.  I'm not saying that the technical issues aren't real and that they shouldn't be
> addressed, but my observation is that the social  issues get discussed a lot more thoroughly
> than do the technical issues.
> 
>    For example, I've come to the conclusion that the term "not accessible" is virtually
> meaningless for describing an actual problem with a web site, application or other digital
> system.  It doesn't convey how broken that site, system or aplication is or even if  the site
> is, in fact broken.  What it says is that the speaker couldn't make it work, for some unknown
> reason.  That doesn't mean the speaker is wrong, just that when you're having a discussion
> about a site, system or application that's "not accessible", unless the speaker is willing to
> be more detailed about what is wrong and what doesn't work, the discussion cannot continue from
> that point.
>    And there in lies the challenge of a project of this type.  The solution to any technical
> problem, for that matter, most problems in life, is nuanced and not straightforward, for
> various reasons.  In the computing arena, this nuance is magnefied significantly by virtue of
> the fact that technology is changing so quickly that any proposed solution to a specific
> accessibility issue is likely to go stale after some relatively short period of time.  I like
> Ty's idea of making a wiki, which consists mostly, of links to outside resources that might
> point out accessibility tricks for various computing technologies.  Even better would be if we
> could figure out why the archives of this list are no longer searchable via Google.  They wer
> very searchable via Google at one time, but that ceased working around 2017, or so.  The reason
> is that most people find solutions to problems by interacting with others in relative real
> time.  The archives of this list are chalk full of accessibility tips and tricks for a host of
> computing technologies and answers to a thousand questions.  Yes,some of them are dated, but
> many are still relevant today, if we could only find them.
> 
>    If there is interest in a computer science based project for the NFB in Computer Science,
> one good candidate would be either to figure out how to get Google to index this list again, or
> to take the existing archives and make a web page that lets you conduct searches of those
> archives that actually yield results.
>    this is not intended to detract from the project that Tyler is spearheading, but to
> augment it.  As the president of the NFB in Computer Science, I support this project, and we'd
> like to figure out ways to make it even more useful.  And, more useful in my mind means
> something that is easy to maintain relative to what everyone is doing now, but which provides
> more functionality than we currently have.  Some might view e-mail as an antiquated way to
> communicate, but it is still the best tool for reaching all kinds of folks where ever they are.
> And this isn't just true of blind folks.  In my day job, and this has been true for decades, it
> is the case that most of the IT infrastructure could fall off a cliff and people are annoyed,
> but not frantic.  However, if e-mail stops working, then the world is going to explode and it
> must be fixed pronto!  In other words, e-mail is like the food of the Internet; old, simple,
> but absolutely vital to everyone all the time!  To that end, it would be good to be able to
> leverage the resource we already have, this list, to a greater extent than we already do.  In
> that way, we can continue to enjoy solutions and questions for as wide an audience as possible.
> 
> -thanks
> -Brian
>