[NFBCS] I need a math whiz to help me with a professor

Tue Jun 27 00:54:30 UTC 2023

            First and foremost, as has already been said, there is not a one size fits all when it comes to math rendering for the blind.

            Second, rather than trying to do stuff herself, I would strongly recommend that the professor talk to the office that helps with getting materials, resources, etc. for students with disabilities—unless the college does not have one or there is some other problem.

            Finally, was this just out of curiosity, or is your friend actually trying to convert materials?

Nicole

From: NFBCS <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Campbell Rutherford via NFBCS
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2023 10:32 AM
To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Cc: campbell.rutherford15 at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [NFBCS] I need a math whiz to help me with a professor

Hello,

As a blind student studying applied mathematics in college at the moment, I think this is a great answer. The only thing that I would add is that if the student uses a braille display in conjunction with their screen reader, anything that is written in MathML typically appears in Nemeth braille on the student’s braille display as well. When I receive my mathematics materials, I typically prefer to receive them in an accessible digital format so that I can use my screen reader and braille display to access the math content and eliminate the need to produce and carry around hardcopy braille materials. The only exception to this so far has been tactile graphics, and even then, I prefer using the accessibility features in Desmos, a free online graphing calculator, to explore graphs when possible. Of course, there are some concepts, particularly in integral and multivariable calculus, that need to be represented by tactile graphics or even three-dimensional models, but when something can be accessed and presented digitally, that tends to be what I prefer.

Also, I will mention that I do have MathType installed on my PC, as I learned to output math using LaTeX and MathType in Word before the Microsoft Equation Editor became accessible with JAWS, my preferred screen reader. I now mainly rely on Freedom Scientific’s Braille Math Editor to output math, but I sometimes still use LaTeX with MathType for symbols that do not typically come out well using the Braille Math Editor or (in some cases) the Microsoft Equation Editor. Having MathType on my own machine also typically allows me to access materials that my professors have already prepared using MathType and Word. In short, although it is not absolutely essential for a student to have MathType installed on their own computer, it has made my life easier.

Hope this helps,

Campbell Rutherford

From: NFBCS <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org <mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> > On Behalf Of Linda Coccovizzo via NFBCS
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2023 1:07 PM
To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> >
Cc: linda at coccovizzo.com <mailto:linda at coccovizzo.com> 
Subject: Re: [NFBCS] I need a math whiz to help me with a professor

Hi Gary. I recently wrote this up to send to an adaptive Tech Assistant who had sent an inquiry to our program at the Carroll Center. Hope this information helps.

Hello. Having worked as an assistant to adaptive technology coordinator at my community college for several years, I am quite familiar with the issues with math and science notation when it comes to students who are blind. Your question was specific to screen readers, and I will be talking about that, but I wanted to mention Braille, also. The first question we always asked when a student enrolled in a math course, was in regards to reading preference. If a student is a proficient Braille reader, higher math, as much as possible, should be done in Nemeth or UEB math Braille. Being able to hear the math properly with a screen reader is very helpful, however not always the best way to understand the concepts, without being able to have a long, complicated equation under their fingertips,  especially one which might take up several lines. Unfortunately, math and science notation is the most difficult thing to put out in a timely manner for a student, especially when there are several other alternate formats needing to be created for others. Here in Missouri, we were fortunate enough to be able to outsource to our prison Braille and narration center. However, many times we found ourselves scrambling to try and get the first chapters of a book done, so that the student wouldn’t fall behind. We also had to outsource to have a book or two done by paid professional services. Also, tactile graphs are very important. Even if the student is not a Braille reader, they prefer to be able to feel those, rather than to have them described by alternate text.

Now onto the subject of screen readers and math. The most important thing to know, is that math has to be created in the proper markup language, for any screen reader to read it correctly. Math on the web, is created with the MathML markup. The links I will be posting in this email will hopefully give you the information you need to make this work for your students. I am also sending a link to information on how to create accessible math using the Microsoft Word equation editor. It is important to note that math in PDF form will not read correctly with a screen reader. Properly marked up Math from hard copy or pdf, also cannot simply be rendered from a scan. If instructors don’t create their notes and tests, using the correct equation editing, those notes have to be typed in manually for a screen reader user, or Braille reader to be able to access. Some publishers have implemented MathML in some of their online content, so you can reach out to them for information on that possibility. The VPAT on a publisher’s website does not necessarily guarantee a specific book or lab is going to be accessible. MathML files created by your department with in Word using the MathType software, must be converted to HTML, for the student to be able to access with a screen reader. The only way the math will read in Word, if created that way, is if the student also has MathType on their machine. If equation editor is used, the math can be read and manipulated using Jaws, and it’s math viewer and editor.

Here are the links to information on how all of this can be done. Hopefully these resources will be helpful to you.

Linda C.

Creating and Reading Accessible Math - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wufqq72hhcM

Accessible Math Editor: Word – Perkins School for the Blind

https://www.perkins.org/resource/accessible-math-editor-word/

A link to information on creating math in Braille:

https://www.washington.edu/doit/what-are-some-techniques-creating-braille-math-materials

From: Nick Corbett <nick.corbett at carroll.org <mailto:nick.corbett at carroll.org> > 
Sent: Friday, June 2, 2023 10:05 AM
To: Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at carroll.org <mailto:hope.paulos at carroll.org> >; Linda Coccovizzo <linda.coccovizzo at carroll.org <mailto:linda.coccovizzo at carroll.org> >; Nick Claudio <nick.claudio at carroll.org <mailto:nick.claudio at carroll.org> >; James Duffy <james.duffy at carroll.org <mailto:james.duffy at carroll.org> >
Subject: Fwd: Screen Readers for Math

Hi Linda, Jim, Nick, and Hope,

Might I ask each of you for your thoughts related to the below question about screen readers for interacting with algebra? My gut says this has to do more with the program that is displaying mathematical statements than the screen reader being used to view the mathematical statements. If this is accurate in your views, is there specific software that you would recommend for viewing mathematical statements?

Nick

Nick Corbett <http://www.linkedin.com/in/nickdc95> 

Accessibility Training and Research Coordinator

The Carroll Center for the Blind <https://carroll.org/> 

Screen Reader User Tester Training (SRUTT) Program <https://carroll.org/screen-reader-user-tester-training-program/> 

770 Centre Street, Newton, MA 02458

Phone: (617) 969-6200 ext. 210

Cell: (401) 633-4883

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Luis Gutierrez <Luis.Gutierrez at guttman.cuny.edu <mailto:Luis.Gutierrez at guttman.cuny.edu> >
Date: Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 10:46 AM
Subject: Screen Readers for Math
To: Nick.Corbett at carroll.org <mailto:Nick.Corbett at carroll.org>  <Nick.Corbett at carroll.org <mailto:Nick.Corbett at carroll.org> >

Dear Nick,

I hope this email finds you well. My name is Luis Gutierrez and I’m the assistant director of disability services at Guttman Community College. I was able to review your presentation at the Accessibility Summer Camp today. 

I was wondering if you could provide me with some recommendations of screen readers that work well with reading formulas for subjects like college algebra, trigonometry, or even exams with chemistry along with biology.  

Any suggestions you can provide of screen readers that are accessible to students with disabilities in math, chemistry, or biology would be greatly appreciated. 

Thank you so much. 

Kind Regards, 

Luis Gutierrez 

 <https://guttman.cuny.edu/> 

Luis Gutierrez 

Assistant Director of AccessABILITY Services           

Guttman Community College

50 West 40th Street

New York, NY 10018

Phone: (646) 313-8256

E-mail: Luis.Gutierrez at guttman.cuny.edu <mailto:Luis.Gutierrez at guttman.cuny.edu> 

Web: https://guttman.cuny.edu/students/accessability/

 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.facebook.com_GuttmanCC&d=DwMGaQ&c=mRWFL96tuqj9V0Jjj4h40ddo0XsmttALwKjAEOCyUjY&r=cE9NuFyMYmoMjUqehY_9eYnK2fEFzEqjsOhuPgPpFHQ&m=l17g5HIknuTwlPmayqBEsAoaCAl-fwnZEbi87lHuzmjhuua7-cJ1b4WuY4Ar8lLt&s=s5VRo5CeyyLY4x_Bwsgw-24bNIZ6GPFY__MzHJ5ZlfY&e=>  <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.instagram.com_guttmancc_&d=DwMGaQ&c=mRWFL96tuqj9V0Jjj4h40ddo0XsmttALwKjAEOCyUjY&r=cE9NuFyMYmoMjUqehY_9eYnK2fEFzEqjsOhuPgPpFHQ&m=l17g5HIknuTwlPmayqBEsAoaCAl-fwnZEbi87lHuzmjhuua7-cJ1b4WuY4Ar8lLt&s=xxpM8RcSNy4A0rGoWRfDNFmFws9ZZgJIrVzpKvcRFI4&e=>   <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.linkedin.com_school_guttman-2Dcommunity-2Dcollege_&d=DwMGaQ&c=mRWFL96tuqj9V0Jjj4h40ddo0XsmttALwKjAEOCyUjY&r=cE9NuFyMYmoMjUqehY_9eYnK2fEFzEqjsOhuPgPpFHQ&m=l17g5HIknuTwlPmayqBEsAoaCAl-fwnZEbi87lHuzmjhuua7-cJ1b4WuY4Ar8lLt&s=VqkKOHIsSvuXwy6xHM_DsRK_LGNm2GRTsEDMxD6WbZY&e=>   <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.tiktok.com_-40guttmancc&d=DwMGaQ&c=mRWFL96tuqj9V0Jjj4h40ddo0XsmttALwKjAEOCyUjY&r=cE9NuFyMYmoMjUqehY_9eYnK2fEFzEqjsOhuPgPpFHQ&m=l17g5HIknuTwlPmayqBEsAoaCAl-fwnZEbi87lHuzmjhuua7-cJ1b4WuY4Ar8lLt&s=vyr29VLa2FQ0h0O22OVJoToxzbqjG3BQI9tHlu8sjq0&e=>   <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_guttmancc&d=DwMGaQ&c=mRWFL96tuqj9V0Jjj4h40ddo0XsmttALwKjAEOCyUjY&r=cE9NuFyMYmoMjUqehY_9eYnK2fEFzEqjsOhuPgPpFHQ&m=l17g5HIknuTwlPmayqBEsAoaCAl-fwnZEbi87lHuzmjhuua7-cJ1b4WuY4Ar8lLt&s=YLQ_zUMGYfSuxEFsORX0guMUl2jFdsDROlMAocJvJRE&e=>   <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_c_guttmancommunitycollege&d=DwMGaQ&c=mRWFL96tuqj9V0Jjj4h40ddo0XsmttALwKjAEOCyUjY&r=cE9NuFyMYmoMjUqehY_9eYnK2fEFzEqjsOhuPgPpFHQ&m=l17g5HIknuTwlPmayqBEsAoaCAl-fwnZEbi87lHuzmjhuua7-cJ1b4WuY4Ar8lLt&s=Q49h_qz2hHn51RZTOadQ73Yx7jf6n6gnyw91FgnXGvs&e=> 

The content of this message and attachments may contain information that is protected under the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA). The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (20 U.S.C. § 1232g; 34 CFR Part 99) is a Federal law that protects the privacy of student education records. If you have received this message in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any unauthorized use, copying or dissemination is prohibited.

From: NFBCS <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org <mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> > On Behalf Of Gary Wunder via NFBCS
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2023 11:42 AM
To: nfbcs at nfbnet.org <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> ; apmaneki at earthlink.net <mailto:apmaneki at earthlink.net> 
Cc: Gary Wunder <gwunder at earthlink.net <mailto:gwunder at earthlink.net> >
Subject: [NFBCS] I need a math whiz to help me with a professor

A friend from my high school class is a professor and she asks me this question: do you have a recommendation for software to make mathematical expressions, formulas and/or graphs accessible to seeing impaired students?

Thanks for giving me contacts.

Warmly,

Gary

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/attachments/20230626/85291294/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.png
Type: image/png
Size: 15081 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/attachments/20230626/85291294/attachment.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image002.png
Type: image/png
Size: 42361 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/attachments/20230626/85291294/attachment-0001.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image003.png
Type: image/png
Size: 228 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/attachments/20230626/85291294/attachment-0002.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image004.png
Type: image/png
Size: 1567 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/attachments/20230626/85291294/attachment-0003.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image005.png
Type: image/png
Size: 1934 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/attachments/20230626/85291294/attachment-0004.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image006.png
Type: image/png
Size: 1579 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/attachments/20230626/85291294/attachment-0005.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image007.png
Type: image/png
Size: 1619 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/attachments/20230626/85291294/attachment-0006.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image008.png
Type: image/png
Size: 1630 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/attachments/20230626/85291294/attachment-0007.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image009.png
Type: image/png
Size: 1570 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/attachments/20230626/85291294/attachment-0008.png>