[Nfbf-l] State School

Fri Apr 8 10:58:44 UTC 2011

All I can say is that it did come across that way, and I accept that you 
probably didn't mean it that way.  Yes, I accept your apology.  Just 
remember, however, that some of us have different issues which, 
unfortunately, will push buttons, and I think that as someone who has been 
blind all my life, I am in a position to know a lot more about these issues 
than it sounded like you were giving me credit for.  Remember, I've 
experienced what it's like to be in the sighted world and not figure out why 
I wasn't getting hired, even though I dressed appropriately, didn't have 
those unpleasant mannerisms that we talk about, etc.  And that's all I have 
to say and I won't continue this, but please keep these things in mind. 
Thank you.

Mark Tardif
Welcome to my planet
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kirk" <kvharmon54 at gmail.com>
To: "NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] State School

> Mark, I was under the impression all of us were stating our opinions! I am
> sorry if I offended  you, as this was not my intention. I agree with you
> about sertain sighted and blind individuals having social issues and other
> learning disability's, and if you would have read the rest of my comments
> you would have seen where I just stated what you did about an hour earlier
> than you! Mark, debates and discussions about certain topics are just 
> that,
> the reason they are called debates or discussions is because there is so
> many different opinions to be put out there for listening to open mindedly
> and giving a rebuttal to some of them if you so  incline to! I made an
> honest opinion of what I thought about Sherri and your  comments,  I 
> didn't
> claim that they were correct or not, just simply my opinion, nor did I
> suggest to anyone that I know all for that matter, but not once did I 
> attack
> you personally nor try and belittle someone for their poinnts of view!
> Personally Mark, I feel like this topic has ran it's course and has gotten
> to the point that it should be discontinued as all of the opinions worth
> discussing have already been done earlier and the last several days are
> beginning to sound redundant! I knnow that for me at least it has! I wish
> you well and please try not to take differences of opinion on these talk
> sights in  the future so harshly, alright? Your friend in the cause, Kirk
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mark Tardif" <markspark at bellsouth.net>
> To: "NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 10:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] State School
>
>
> Excuse me Kirk, but I think we have a right to our feelings and opinions 
> as
> well as you do.  It is not an us against them mentality, but I think we 
> have
> a right to feel a little put off when somebody gets on their soap box and
> makes a harsh judgment against so many totally bline people, and says you
> vill adjust!  Besides, there are a lot of sighted people whom I wouldn't
> hire either.  And that's for a variety of reasons, some of which also have
> to do with inappropriate dress or attitude, so let's stop making it sound
> like it's us blind who have this problem and oy we'd better stop it.  If I
> sound angry, I am because you obviously don't allow for other views, you
> think you know it all and you certainly don't.  So there.
>
> Mark Tardif
> Welcome to my planet
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kirk" <kvharmon54 at gmail.com>
> To: "NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 7:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] State School
>
>
>> Sherri and Mark, you two are saying the very same things that the sighted
>> people do about being different! How can we change the minds of the
>> sighted
>> about us when we in fact keep talking about being "them against us"
>> mentality?
>> I have been reading your comments and it sounds like you both are bitter
>> about the facts that are out there just like some in the sighted 
>> community
>> that are bitter about us that we talk against so much! Until we start
>> talking like  we are all the same capable people, we will remain
>> seperated,
>> this much I do know! From a once sighted, now blind individual, KH
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 10:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] State School
>>
>>
>> It just bothers me to a huge degree to hear formerly sighted people say
>> how
>> much more together they have figured out blindness and blind people and
>> how
>> we should behave or act because they were formerly sighted. There are
>> blind
>> people out there achieving great things who have never been sighted. 
>> Maybe
>> I'm just being over-sensitive, but I'm really tired of the superior
>> attitude
>> of sighted people who are now blind thinking they have it over all us
>> people
>> who have never been sighted.
>>
>> Sherri
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mark Tardif" <markspark at bellsouth.net>
>> To: "NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 8:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] State School
>>
>>
>>> You got it, Sherri.  From another socially immature, inept school for 
>>> the
>>> blind educated kid, this defense is much needed.
>>>
>>> Mark Tardif
>>> Welcome to my planet
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 10:28 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] State School
>>>
>>>
>>>> Bravo Mark! Right on! Thank you for defending us poor. socially inept,
>>>> immature, incapable School for the Blind educated people. I have not 
>>>> had
>>>> time to look at e-mails, so I am playing catch-up.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Mark Tardif" <markspark at bellsouth.net>
>>>> To: "NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 8:24 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] State School
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure we can stereotype people who attended schools for the
>>>>> blind
>>>>> and type cast them like that.  I attended a school for the blind and I
>>>>> lived with a friend who was mainstreamed.  Guess what, I think she was
>>>>> much less likely to want to join the real world, at times I got the
>>>>> sense she wanted to live in a "blind ghetto."  Public schooling can be
>>>>> brutal on a lot of kids, and if you are at all different, forget it. 
>>>>> I
>>>>> also had a boss once who was also blind and we worked together in the
>>>>> early eighties. He thought that mainstreaming sounded good on paper,
>>>>> but
>>>>> he had had a chance to observe and talk to some of these people who
>>>>> were
>>>>> mainstreamed, and was disappointed.  He said they came across as
>>>>> cynical. apathetic, etc.  So, just one man's opinion, it appears to be
>>>>> different for different children. Also, I would say that the NFB
>>>>> influence, as shown by centers like Louisiana and Colorado, seems to
>>>>> try
>>>>> to emphasize that we cannot expect the world to provide us extra
>>>>> privileges that we need to adapt to it.  So I don't know what happened
>>>>> at Daytona, and anyone may enlighten me, but I doubt it was the
>>>>> influence of the NFB that caused it to go downhill.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark Tardif
>>>>> Welcome to my planet
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Kirk" <kvharmon54 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 12:53 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] State School
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Joann, I so agree with you on this topic! I, too, have seen many 
>>>>>> blind
>>>>>> individuals that act so childlike compared to others and have 
>>>>>> wondered
>>>>>> why.
>>>>>> Why some are always figitting, and others are not. I was told it was
>>>>>> due to
>>>>>> their parents allowing them to do what they wished without letting
>>>>>> them
>>>>>> know it is not polite to rock or figit all the time in their
>>>>>> seets,etc.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> was also told it was because they were placed in their playpens for
>>>>>> hours to
>>>>>> keep them safe and they would get extremely bored so they developed
>>>>>> habits
>>>>>> that were very distracting to others in a room and such. These
>>>>>> behaviors are
>>>>>> what the majority of our population (sighted) see and assume we are
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> prepared to be on an even  keel with them and until we try and feel
>>>>>> comfortable about talking about these foibles with some of usletting
>>>>>> them
>>>>>> know this behavior is not acceptable and quite rude as well, we will
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> diminished and negative attention brought our way. Just one man's
>>>>>> opinion is
>>>>>> all! Kirk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "Joanne" <jdking09 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>> To: <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 12:21 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [Nfbf-l] State School
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know first hand what a shambles the Daytona School became after it
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> influenced by NFB's  theory of teaching independents to the blind.
>>>>>> If
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> in charge  I would first have every student believe in their dignity.
>>>>>> Then
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> would teach them to believe  that they can achieve anything if they
>>>>>> really
>>>>>> want
>>>>>> to.  and the other important thing is to join society without 
>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> need  special treatment.  You can't burn the candle at both ends. 
>>>>>> And
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> what they had done at the center.  That's why the school is not on
>>>>>> track.
>>>>>> The people that I have known before NFB's influence had a better
>>>>>> chance
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> learning all this.  After that forget it.
>>>>>> I personally grew up in public and private schools and learned my own
>>>>>> independents because I wanted to.  I agree that one can always pick
>>>>>> out
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> blind
>>>>>> student who was educated at a school for the blind including one like
>>>>>> Daytona.
>>>>>> They act like a child..
>>>>>> So whether it is NFB or ACB or anything else.  A blind person can be
>>>>>> so
>>>>>> called
>>>>>> Normal if treated like they are normal.
>>>>>> We are a very small percentage of society.  Therefore, it is us, who
>>>>>> needs
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> comply with the majority.
>>>>>> Please pass this on to the NFB and the ACB and any other 
>>>>>> Organizations
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> feel
>>>>>> that special privileges is the only way to go.  I guess what I am
>>>>>> trying to
>>>>>> say
>>>>>> is stop degrading us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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