[Nfbf-l] State School

Fri Apr 8 23:22:51 UTC 2011

Hi all.

I wasn't going to comment any more about this, but am I the only one that is 
getting tired of this topic?  I really think everyone said everything that 
could be said pertaining to this topic, and I quite frankly am tired of 
hearing about it.  So, could someone please change the subject?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kirk" <kvharmon54 at gmail.com>
To: "NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] State School

> condescending way? Good bye Mark!
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mark Tardif" <markspark at bellsouth.net>
> To: "NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 7:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] State School
>
>
> Unfortunately, about the schools, I would have to agree with you, and it 
> is
> truly sad.  But while those issues you mention may be unique to the blind,
> it seems to me that there are sighted folks who engage in stuff that's 
> just
> as bad.  For example, I sat in on a job interview once with some of my
> colleagues and found out that the candidate was poorly dressed, looked
> unkempt, and, frankly, he sounded too lay back.  All I'm saying is that if
> we are going to go after blind people for ridiculous behaviors, don't do 
> it
> in a conndescending way and remember that sighted people have their own
> issues.  The end, really.
>
> Mark Tardif
> Welcome to my planet
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kirk" <kvharmon54 at gmail.com>
> To: "NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 11:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] State School
>
>
>>    Mark, I would like to say one more thing before I leave this 
>> discussion
>> and that is this, as far as the blind that sway or rock or even act like
>> there playing the piano and such, I just want to let you know that this 
>> is
>> unique with the blind as I was sighted for 42 years and never, and I mean
>> never, seen a sighted individual, no matter how poor their dress or 
>> social
>> skills were, act like that in public! Perhaps since you have never seen
>> the
>> facial expressions of sighted people when confronted by this behavior, 
>> you
>> don't understand how offensive it is to others that see it, unlike
>> ourselves! On the other issues of bad social skills, I will go back to my
>> other comments about feeling that the schools have declined with  both 
>> the
>> sighted public and the blind public so badly anymore it is hard to blame
>> it
>> on any one school or not it is an overall decline in teaching throughout!
>> KH
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mark Tardif" <markspark at bellsouth.net>
>> To: "NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 10:02 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] State School
>>
>>
>> Excuse me Kirk, but I think we have a right to our feelings and opinions
>> as
>> well as you do.  It is not an us against them mentality, but I think we
>> have
>> a right to feel a little put off when somebody gets on their soap box and
>> makes a harsh judgment against so many totally bline people, and says you
>> vill adjust!  Besides, there are a lot of sighted people whom I wouldn't
>> hire either.  And that's for a variety of reasons, some of which also 
>> have
>> to do with inappropriate dress or attitude, so let's stop making it sound
>> like it's us blind who have this problem and oy we'd better stop it.  If 
>> I
>> sound angry, I am because you obviously don't allow for other views, you
>> think you know it all and you certainly don't.  So there.
>>
>> Mark Tardif
>> Welcome to my planet
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Kirk" <kvharmon54 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 7:06 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] State School
>>
>>
>>> Sherri and Mark, you two are saying the very same things that the 
>>> sighted
>>> people do about being different! How can we change the minds of the
>>> sighted
>>> about us when we in fact keep talking about being "them against us"
>>> mentality?
>>> I have been reading your comments and it sounds like you both are bitter
>>> about the facts that are out there just like some in the sighted
>>> community
>>> that are bitter about us that we talk against so much! Until we start
>>> talking like  we are all the same capable people, we will remain
>>> seperated,
>>> this much I do know! From a once sighted, now blind individual, KH
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 10:44 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] State School
>>>
>>>
>>> It just bothers me to a huge degree to hear formerly sighted people say
>>> how
>>> much more together they have figured out blindness and blind people and
>>> how
>>> we should behave or act because they were formerly sighted. There are
>>> blind
>>> people out there achieving great things who have never been sighted.
>>> Maybe
>>> I'm just being over-sensitive, but I'm really tired of the superior
>>> attitude
>>> of sighted people who are now blind thinking they have it over all us
>>> people
>>> who have never been sighted.
>>>
>>> Sherri
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Mark Tardif" <markspark at bellsouth.net>
>>> To: "NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 8:20 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] State School
>>>
>>>
>>>> You got it, Sherri.  From another socially immature, inept school for
>>>> the
>>>> blind educated kid, this defense is much needed.
>>>>
>>>> Mark Tardif
>>>> Welcome to my planet
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 10:28 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] State School
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Bravo Mark! Right on! Thank you for defending us poor. socially inept,
>>>>> immature, incapable School for the Blind educated people. I have not
>>>>> had
>>>>> time to look at e-mails, so I am playing catch-up.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Mark Tardif" <markspark at bellsouth.net>
>>>>> To: "NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 8:24 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] State School
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not sure we can stereotype people who attended schools for the
>>>>>> blind
>>>>>> and type cast them like that.  I attended a school for the blind and 
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> lived with a friend who was mainstreamed.  Guess what, I think she 
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> much less likely to want to join the real world, at times I got the
>>>>>> sense she wanted to live in a "blind ghetto."  Public schooling can 
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> brutal on a lot of kids, and if you are at all different, forget it.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> also had a boss once who was also blind and we worked together in the
>>>>>> early eighties. He thought that mainstreaming sounded good on paper,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> he had had a chance to observe and talk to some of these people who
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> mainstreamed, and was disappointed.  He said they came across as
>>>>>> cynical. apathetic, etc.  So, just one man's opinion, it appears to 
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> different for different children. Also, I would say that the NFB
>>>>>> influence, as shown by centers like Louisiana and Colorado, seems to
>>>>>> try
>>>>>> to emphasize that we cannot expect the world to provide us extra
>>>>>> privileges that we need to adapt to it.  So I don't know what 
>>>>>> happened
>>>>>> at Daytona, and anyone may enlighten me, but I doubt it was the
>>>>>> influence of the NFB that caused it to go downhill.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark Tardif
>>>>>> Welcome to my planet
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "Kirk" <kvharmon54 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 12:53 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] State School
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joann, I so agree with you on this topic! I, too, have seen many
>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>> individuals that act so childlike compared to others and have
>>>>>>> wondered
>>>>>>> why.
>>>>>>> Why some are always figitting, and others are not. I was told it was
>>>>>>> due to
>>>>>>> their parents allowing them to do what they wished without letting
>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>> know it is not polite to rock or figit all the time in their
>>>>>>> seets,etc.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> was also told it was because they were placed in their playpens for
>>>>>>> hours to
>>>>>>> keep them safe and they would get extremely bored so they developed
>>>>>>> habits
>>>>>>> that were very distracting to others in a room and such. These
>>>>>>> behaviors are
>>>>>>> what the majority of our population (sighted) see and assume we are
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> prepared to be on an even  keel with them and until we try and feel
>>>>>>> comfortable about talking about these foibles with some of usletting
>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>> know this behavior is not acceptable and quite rude as well, we will
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> diminished and negative attention brought our way. Just one man's
>>>>>>> opinion is
>>>>>>> all! Kirk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>> From: "Joanne" <jdking09 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>> To: <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 12:21 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [Nfbf-l] State School
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know first hand what a shambles the Daytona School became after it
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> influenced by NFB's  theory of teaching independents to the blind.
>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>> in charge  I would first have every student believe in their 
>>>>>>> dignity.
>>>>>>> Then
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> would teach them to believe  that they can achieve anything if they
>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>> to.  and the other important thing is to join society without
>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> need  special treatment.  You can't burn the candle at both ends.
>>>>>>> And
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> what they had done at the center.  That's why the school is not on
>>>>>>> track.
>>>>>>> The people that I have known before NFB's influence had a better
>>>>>>> chance
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> learning all this.  After that forget it.
>>>>>>> I personally grew up in public and private schools and learned my 
>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>> independents because I wanted to.  I agree that one can always pick
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>> student who was educated at a school for the blind including one 
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> Daytona.
>>>>>>> They act like a child..
>>>>>>> So whether it is NFB or ACB or anything else.  A blind person can be
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> called
>>>>>>> Normal if treated like they are normal.
>>>>>>> We are a very small percentage of society.  Therefore, it is us, who
>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> comply with the majority.
>>>>>>> Please pass this on to the NFB and the ACB and any other
>>>>>>> Organizations
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>> that special privileges is the only way to go.  I guess what I am
>>>>>>> trying to
>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>> is stop degrading us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>
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