[Nfbf-l] Fw: [nagdu] ablindconsumer's RighttoChooserehabtraining(federalregs)

David Evans drevans at bellsouth.net
Mon Nov 14 15:50:29 UTC 2011 

Dear All,

Past experience has shown that the RSA has said that the states must pay as 
much as they would for someone attending VR within their state and that any 
difference must be born by the client.
It has the "Freedom of Choice amendment" behind it and if a complaint is 
sent to the RSA in Washington, the state will have to show some very 
compelling reasons why they turned you down.
As for retaliations by the state, upon a client who files a complaint, that 
is also against the law and as violation  of a clients rights could cause 
the cut off of federal funds, heads would surely roll.
I know some people who have done this.


David Evans, NFBF and GD Jack.----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 8:43 PM
Subject: [Nfbf-l] Fw: [nagdu] ablindconsumer's 
RighttoChooserehabtraining(federalregs)


> Someone started this topic on the Nagdue list, and I thought it'd be good
> here. here are the federal regulations. As you know, DBS likes to try to
> keep people in state, and when one wishes to get their training from an 
> NFB
> center, they're told some excuse as to why they  can't. Since Joyce 
> Hildreth
> has taken over, What is your views as to how DBS is doing? would you rate 
> it
> on a scail of 1-5? 5 being good, and 1 being dismal? Why are their 75
> percent of blind people with out jobs? Are we the blind the problem, or is
> it the blindness agencies expect so little from us that in turn, we expect
> so little from our selves? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tami Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 8:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a blindconsumer's
> RighttoChooserehabtraining(federalregs)
>
>
>> RJ,
>>
>> That is great news! Good for you!
>>
>> For myself, I've done better by just not bothering with the agency. 
>> Except
>> to keep up with the ongoing audit results and the buzz about them. And I
>> gather stories where I can and have been studying working systems, like
>> that in Nebraska, as an aid to my ability to communicate about the 
>> subject
>> in a positive way. Although, I can complain with the best of them and 
>> just
>> do a good impression of a rabid wolverine on the subject of VVR in 
>> Oregon.
>> Excuse me, I need to wipe the foam off my mouth thinking about tit. /lol/
>>
>> Figuring out ways to assist others in getting information, tools, even
>> educational materials for self-learning is also a current project that 
>> I'm
>> working on... I have a glimmer of an idea that may even work for some, at
>> least. We'll se.
>>
>> If it is  a matter of agency policy that they will not send consumers to
>> the NFB centers, then any individual VRC is sorta stuck right there even
>> if they want to get their consumers to that training. Or to get anything
>> for them. The VR Director and the administrator will stop that one cold
>> right there. Law? Ha! No one is going to make them follow that, so they
>> don't have to. They will tell you that to your face, in a taped meeting.
>> If you keep asking, they will just make something up and they will make
>> something up to ensure you don't get VR services of any kind here, ever.
>> Some peole keep their mouths shut and will not reveal their identy or 
>> tell
>> their stories except rin confidence based on that threat. I try to give
>> them a gentle nudge by  mentioning my own response the first time I heard
>> that: This would change my life *how*? They laugh a little at my
>> outrageous daring, then I assure them I didn't say that out loud. But 
>> that
>> is exactly what I thought then and what I still think. A threat to
>> whithhold something you're withholding anyway isn't as frightening as 
>> they
>> might think. Sheesh!
>>
>> How to address the problem, for all of us or any one of us? Not a clue
>> here. Workin goni it...
>>
>> Tami
>>
>> On 11/11/2011 02:53 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote:
>>> I was told by my councilor I could not go into ministry because I was
>>> blind ,and I needed to eat. I'm going for my doctorate in theology and
>>> the councilor who told me this, no longer works in the blindness field.
>>> RJ
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Young"
>>> <jeff.young8806 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 4:49 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] a blind consumer's
>>> RighttoChooserehabtraining(federalregs)
>>>
>>>
>>>> I should say, regarding my previous rant, that I have, like Julie, had
>>>> good experiences. Dealing with a counselor can be a difficult
>>>> experience.
>>>> Jeff Young
>>>>
>>>> Home of the world's healthiest energy drink. No Caffeine, no added
>>>> sugar. Email me for a free sample today.
>>>> Phone: (318) 243-3003
>>>> E-mail: jeff.young8806 at gmail.com
>>>> Website: http://jhyrumyoung.drinkactweb.com/
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 11, 2011, at 2:39 PM, Julie J. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I'm replying to myself! LOL It's a privledge that old people get.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wanted to add that sometimes clients sell themselves short,
>>>>> occassionally very short. It's hard to work with a young, energetic
>>>>> client who is well spoken, who is confident and well educated who
>>>>> tells you they want to sell pencils on the corner. As a counselor you
>>>>> want to encourage them to elevate their expectations. You know in
>>>>> your heart that they could acomplish so much more. There's no way to
>>>>> know if they want to sell pencils because that's all they think they
>>>>> can do or is that really their heart's desire?
>>>>>
>>>>> I admit to being less than 100% supportive of other blind people that
>>>>> I thought were choosing to be a piano tuner or telemarketer because I
>>>>> thought they were picking those careers because those are the only
>>>>> options for blind folks. Looking back I see it was a mistake, but at
>>>>> the time I had no way to know. There are ways to be supportive of
>>>>> someone while still encouraging them to be more, but I hadn't quite
>>>>> figured that out yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Julie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/11/2011 3:24 PM, Julie J. wrote:
>>>>>> In defense of rehabilitation counselors, they are just like us,
>>>>>> human. They may see potential in you that you don't see. They may be
>>>>>> trying to get you thinking outside of the box, so to speak and may
>>>>>> suggest things you hadn't considered. Sometimes it's difficult to be
>>>>>> encouraging while still being realistic. None of us can see into the
>>>>>> future to know exactly what the person on the other side of the desk
>>>>>> is capable of.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I used to work in rehabilitation and still do in a different
>>>>>> capacity. I've seen folks with huge dreams, but their daily actions
>>>>>> don't fit with what they are saying they want to do. I've talked
>>>>>> with folks who tell me they want to work in drug/alcohol prevention.
>>>>>> Yet when I make suggestions of things they could do now like
>>>>>> learning Braille, joining local prevention organizations, checking
>>>>>> out colleges etc. they make excuses and don't do any of those
>>>>>> things. So is it awful of the counselor to tell the client the
>>>>>> agency can't support them in that goal?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Outside of the professional rehabilitation scene, I've frequently
>>>>>> had email and phone calls from individuals who want to owner train
>>>>>> their guide dog. Some of them I encourage and some I try to gently
>>>>>> suggest they try a different avenue for getting a guide. Do I
>>>>>> believe blind people can train their own guide dog? Absolutely. It
>>>>>> is, however, an entirely different question to ask can this person I
>>>>>> am talking to train their own guide? Maybe yes and maybe no, but
>>>>>> blindness isn't as big of a factor as commitment, ambition and
>>>>>> resourcefulness are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And then there are rehab counselors who do not have a very positive
>>>>>> view of what blind people can truly accomplish. *sigh* That is a
>>>>>> whole different discussion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> anyway I'm just saying to try to understand where the counselor is
>>>>>> coming from because it will help you know how to proceed to get
>>>>>> yourself what you need.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JMHO
>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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