[Nfbf-l] Important: Submitted for your Approval --ProposedConstitutional Amendment.

David Evans drevans at bellsouth.net
Thu May 24 18:42:38 UTC 2012 

Dear Mr.Clark,

I only offered it as a suggestion, but I seriously do not think it would be 
adopted and was just a thought.

David Evans, NFBF
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Clarke" <dbclarke99 at gmail.com>
To: "NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] Important: Submitted for your 
Approval --ProposedConstitutional Amendment.


>A single run-off election between only the top two vote-getters in an
> election would not necessarily serve the best interests of the group.
> Imagine the following hypothetical 1st ballot between 4 candidates:
>
> A gets  11 votes
> B gets  10 votes
> C gets    9 votes
> D gets    8 votes
>
> 27 people of the 38 voted against person A and 28 of the 38 people voted
> against person B being elected.  Perhaps person C is a "consensus builder"
> who works well with others and has a history of bringing various groups
> together.   If person D is removed for the 2nd ballot, the people who 
> voted
> for person D and those voting for person B  on the first ballot may throw
> their support to person C, with person C then winning  18-26.    If only
> the top 2 candidates were allowed to move on, this possibility is
> eliminated.
>
> Just because a person is not in the top two vote-getters on the 1st ballot
> does not necessarily mean they will not (or at least should not) be 
> elected.
>
> Dave Clarke
>
>
> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 8:36 PM, David Evans <drevans at bellsouth.net> 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> In the past, we always passed a bag or box down the row or a collector
>> would hold the bag or box in front of the voter and they would place the
>> ballot in the bag or box themselves.  The collectors should never touch 
>> the
>> ballit.
>> If I saw someone rip the corner off someone else's ballot, I would report
>> them on the spot and stop the balet collections till the matter was
>> resolved and corrected.
>> The person tampering with a ballot would be dismissed from the NFB for
>> Conduct Unbecoming to a member.
>> Even at our chapter elections, we let each member place their ballot
>> directly into the bag or box so that no one else touches them till they 
>> are
>> counted by at least 3 people.
>> I would say that we might consider eliminating the lowest vote getters 
>> and
>> go directly to a single run off election between the two top vote 
>> getters,
>> to save time in any 3,4,or 5 candidate races.  This would save paper 
>> cards
>> too.
>> Only members wearing their convention badges would be given a ballot card
>> to vote with and different color cards could be used for each office, 
>> with
>> no one other than the election counters knowing the color until the time 
>> of
>> the ballot.
>> As per policy, no member of the ACB can hold office or be a committee
>> chair in the NFB at any level.  They can be a rank and file member, but 
>> as
>> long as they are a ACB member, they can not hold an office.
>> This is like the Republican letting a Democrat make their decisions for
>> them and would be a conflict of interest.
>> You would never know just where their loyaltywas.
>>
>> David Evans, NFBF
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathy Koyanagi" <
>> cakoyanagi at samobile.net>
>> To: <kdavisnfbf at cfl.rr.com>
>> Cc: <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 11:23 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] Important: Submitted for your Approval
>> --ProposedConstitutional Amendment.
>>
>>
>>  Easy fix is to have each person put their ballot into an envelope and
>>> seal it, then they can be picked up by designated election officials.
>>> Cathy-Alice
>>>
>>> Original message:
>>>
>>>> Holly,
>>>>        Do you mean that you observed people tearing off an additional
>>>> corner or tearing off a corner when there was no corners torn off? I
>>>> really
>>>> do not see any way around that. I want each person to put their ballot 
>>>> in
>>>> the container for counting so there can be no alterations.
>>>>
>>>
>>>  Kathy
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nfbf-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>> [mailto:nfbf-l-bounces at nfbnet.**org<nfbf-l-bounces at nfbnet.org>]
>>>> On Behalf
>>>> Of Holly
>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 7:26 PM
>>>> To: NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbf-l] Important: Submitted for your Approval
>>>> --ProposedConstitutional Amendment.
>>>>
>>>
>>>  Kathy,
>>>> I tend to agree with you. I would also like a different way to collect
>>>> the
>>>> secret ballot, as well. I have seen people change the ballots as they
>>>> were
>>>> past down the isle. At that point, I did not feel that I could do
>>>> anything
>>>> about it.
>>>> Holly
>>>>
>>>
>>>  Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>
>>>  On May 19, 2012, at 7:18 PM, "Kathy Davis" <kdavisnfbf at cfl.rr.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>  Hi Dan,
>>>>>   I totally oppose your proposed amendment to the NFBF Constitution.
>>>>> You and I have always held differing opinions on the matter of secret
>>>>> ballots.
>>>>>   The fact is that I do not want to stand up publically or even raise
>>>>> my hand so members will know exactly how I vote. I may respect several
>>>>> members running for office but I do not want them to be cognizant of
>>>>> how I choose to vote.  Hurt feelings that can be long-lasting in
>>>>> nature would likely result.
>>>>>   Even though the majority of the voting members are blind, many have
>>>>> enough vision to see how folks cast their votes and of course, we have
>>>>> many sighted members who will also be part of the election process.
>>>>> Don't think for a minute that a given candidate will not learn from
>>>>> other
>>>>>
>>>> members what
>>>>
>>>>> they observed pertaining to how others cast their votes
>>>>>   To take my position a bit further and a little more concrete, let
>>>>> me add an example. It's a really terrible situation when two of my
>>>>> really good friends are running for the same office such as Second
>>>>> Vice President. This situation has occurred on numerous occasions
>>>>> throughout the years I have been part of the NFBF. For example, let's
>>>>> say that Sherrill O'Brien is running against Gloria Hicks. I may
>>>>> choose to vote for Gloria but I would feel horrible for Sherrill to
>>>>> know that I voted against her because I value both candidates'
>>>>> friendship. After all, we are an organization that has worked for
>>>>> years and years for voters to have the right to vote in secret and in
>>>>>
>>>> private.
>>>>
>>>>>   Sorry my friend, but I can never support your amendment! Moreover,
>>>>> elections are far too important to get caught up in making our
>>>>> elections be over and done with in the quickest manner possible. If
>>>>> only one voting member is uncomfortable about voting publically, that
>>>>> member should have the right to call for a secret ballot. I hope
>>>>> others will jump in and share their views on this matter.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>  Your friend and longtime colleague,
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>  Kathy Davis
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfbf-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>> [mailto:nfbf-l-bounces at nfbnet.**org<nfbf-l-bounces at nfbnet.org>]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of Dan Hicks
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 1:47 PM
>>>>> To: 'NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List'
>>>>> Subject: [Nfbf-l] Important: Submitted for your Approval --
>>>>> ProposedConstitutional Amendment.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>  Fellow NFBF Members,
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  As Rod Serling used to say in the beginning minutes of "The Twilight
>>>>>
>>>> Zone,"
>>>>
>>>>> 'Submitted for your approval."
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Some of you may recall that at our 2011 NFBF Convention, we approved
>>>>> an amendment to the constitution which changed and simplified the way
>>>>> chapters designate their representatives.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  During this convention, I mentioned another amendment that I wish to
>>>>> see passed, and will be voted on at this year's convention.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  ARTICLE IV:  ELECTIONS
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Now reads:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  ARTICLE IV:  ELECTIONS
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Elections shall be conducted by a majority vote of the active members
>>>>> present and voting at an annually held business meeting.  Election
>>>>> shall be by voice vote, standing vote, show of hands, roll call vote,
>>>>> or secret ballot.  Secret marked ballots shall be required upon the
>>>>> request of any active member present and voting.  There shall be no
>>>>> proxy voting.  If no nominee receives a majority vote on the first
>>>>> ballot, the name of the person receiving the fewest votes shall be
>>>>> dropped from the list of nominees, and a second ballot shall be taken.
>>>>> This procedure shall continue until one of the nominees has received a
>>>>> majority vote from the active members present and voting.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Proposed Change:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  ARTICLE IV:  ELECTIONS
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Elections shall be conducted by a majority vote of the active members
>>>>> present and voting at an annually held business meeting.  Election
>>>>> shall be by voice vote, standing vote, show of hands, roll call vote,
>>>>> or secret ballot.  Secret marked ballots shall be required upon the
>>>>> request of a majority of the active member present and voting.  There
>>>>> shall be no proxy voting.  If no nominee receives a majority vote on
>>>>> the first ballot, the name of the person receiving the fewest votes
>>>>> shall be dropped from the list of nominees, and a second ballot shall
>>>>> be taken.  This procedure shall continue until one of the nominees has
>>>>> received a majority vote from the active members present and voting.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  I am putting this out now so that we can talk about it and debate its
>>>>> merits via NFBF-L before the start of convention.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Let me just say that we spend something like 45 minutes each
>>>>> convention passing out, collecting, and counting secret ballots at our
>>>>>
>>>> conventions.
>>>>
>>>>> This year, the number of offices up for vote could make this time grow
>>>>> to an hour or more. We usually have about 120 people voting the final
>>>>> day of convention. That's 120 collective hours - the equivalent of
>>>>> five twenty-four hour days - of valuable convention time that we waste
>>>>> on a procedure which a majority of us may not want.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Please note that my proposed amendment does not eliminate secret
>>>>> balloting; it just changes our constitution to call for a secret
>>>>> ballot only if the majority of the members present and voting wish to
>>>>> have
>>>>>
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Please take a look at this and give it your consideration. Feel free
>>>>> to share your thoughts.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Dan Hicks, President
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>  NFB of Florida
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  "It's a shallow life that doesn't give a person a few scars."
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>                                                     -Garrison Keillor
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>
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