[NFBJ] Misleading information--Hebrew Braille Torah scrolls do not qualify as a Torah from which to read for a congregation

Wed Jun 25 00:03:38 UTC 2025

Greetings all,
I want to start out by saying that I am very impressed with the discussion
on this list.  I now want to put in my two cents on the subject.  My
understanding is that Rabbi Sarko's Torah scrolls are made from parchment.
The big difference between his Torah Scrolls and traditional Torah scrolls
is that they have Braille and are split up into individual "books" for ease
of shipping.  I offered the opportunity for Rabbi Sarko to speak to our
group about his courses and refreshable Braille texts.  (He
demonstrated his Braille Torah scroll at our last meeting.  Again I think
the discussion on this subject were very informative.  It represents the
variety of observances among the various denominations of Judaism.  A main
goal of this group is to promote integration and inclusion of blind and low
vision individuals in the Jewish community.  I look forward to being with
you all a little over two weeks from now.

Shalom,

*Stewart Prost, Chair, NFB in Judaism *
Phone: 757-572-6891
Fax: 757-210-7504
Email: sprost82 at gmail.com

On Sun, Jun 22, 2025 at 10:59 PM Daveed Mandell via NFBJ <nfbj at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

> I very much doubt that the braille Torah scrolls that are being
> manufactured are truly kosher. However, I think I read somewhere that they
> are produced on parchment.
>
> Does anyone have any information on braille Trope signs, or in
> Hebrew,taamei mikra? I remember during preparation for my bar mitzvah way
> back in 1962. I had to create a code of sorts using numbers to represent
> the various trope signs. It worked!
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 20, 2025, at 10:41 PM, Andre Zelvin via NFBJ <nfbj at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>
> You're right. I find chat GPT more useful than a search engine in jogging
> my memory about things I already know and that's mainly how I use it for
> this sort of thing. I shouldn't have thrown that last part in as I don't
> have the ability rn to check the sources and see what they actually. My
> apologies
>
> On Jun 20, 2025, at 10:03 PM, Síle Ekaterin Liszka via NFBJ <
> nfbj at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> ChatGPT is not a search engine; it is a text generator. When you ask
> ChatGPT questions, it generates a response based on the likelihood of words
> coming together in relation to your question. It doesn't 'know' anything
> more and it can't. There isn't even any way for it to give you a 'negative'
> response, if you ask it a question a human would consider nonsensical.
>
> Ask the nearest literate elementary school child how many R's are in the
> word 'raspberry'. Ask ChatGPT. Ask some maths questions the child can
> solve. Compare the answers you get from the child with the answers you get
> from ChatGPT.
>
> It will not get better than that, and I predict it will only get worse as
> companies flood the internet with text generated by text generators like
> ChatGPT.
>
> I have no doubt that there are communities that create opportunities for
> blind Jews to participate in services, but I would not expect ChatGPT to be
> able to give you any information that would let you talk to people in those
> communities about it.
>
> -- Síle
>
> > On Jun 20, 2025, at 18:47, Andre Zelvin via NFBJ <nfbj at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Reading the haftorah (sp?) which is usually what's read  by a bar or bat
> mitzvah  is not the same as reading from the Torah. It's a portion from
> another part of the Tanach/bible  and can be read from any accurate book.
> Under traditional halacha, a torah portion must be read from the Torah
> scroll and cannot therefore be read by a Bllind person
> > I was trying to find a reference to a story I heard somewhere about a
> Torah reader in Sfat who went Blind and was asked to still read, because he
> had such a beautiful voice, to chant from memory, which he was capable of
> but he refused, even though he lamented not being able to, because the
> mandate is that it be read  by seeing it, not just from memory. So, I tried
> using Chat GPT to find more about that Blind man, I think he was a Rabbi,
> because Chat GPT  can sometimes find things I wouldn't expect, and it
> didn't find it,but did find a reference to communities making an exception
> for Blind people, possibly reading from Braille, but only where someone was
> reading from the scroll and they repeated after them.
> > It should also be mentioned that it's possible that in a Reform or
> Reconstructionist or other similar congregation where they don't hold by
> traditional halacha, that it's possible a Blind person could be chanting
> the portion or reading from Braille. I doubt they would use this particular
> Braille scroll because it's less convenient than just using a regular
> Braille Chumash or even just a printout of a single portion. Since they
> wouldn't be going by Halacha anyway, there's no reason to do it from
> Braille in scroll form.
> >
> > On Jun 18, 2025, at 6:45 PM, Ricky Lomey via NFBJ <nfbj at nfbnet.org
> <mailto:nfbj at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
> >
> > I remember reading an article in the Times of Israel some years ago
> that a girl in a women's Torah reading at a modern Orthodox congregation in
> Washington DC read her Bat Mitzvah portion also in Hebrew braille using a
> cantillation or trop which had been devised and I found this to be rather
> strange in view of Rabbi Levy's below and wondered if it would have been
> allowed if one knew Hebrew braille for a Barmy and also was under the
> impression that it would not have been.
> >
> > Ricky Lomey
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NFBJ <nfbj-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of mlevy--- via NFBJ
> > Sent: Wednesday, 18 June 2025 12:18
> > To: Stewart Prost <sprost82 at gmail.com>; NFB in Judaism <nfbj at nfbnet.org>;
> Tracy Soforenko <tracy.soforenko at gmail.com>; Rachel Balali <
> rahel.Balali0863 at gmail.com>; Dale HELTZER <deheltzer at msn.com>; Rachel
> Bodek <rybodek at gmail.com>; Rabbi Lenny Sarko <rabbi at rabbisarko.org>;
> Tracy Cady <tracy.swidler at gmail.com>
> > Cc: mlevy at verse-onality.com
> > Subject: [NFBJ] Misleading information--Hebrew Braille Torah scrolls do
> not qualify as a Torah from which to read for a congregation
> >
> > A Torah must be read from a parchment.  There are no legitimate sources
> which permit the reading of the Torah from material other than a parchment.
> >
> > Rabbi Michael Levy
> > Yad Hachazakah
> > www.yadempowers.org<http://www.yadempowers.org>
> >
> > 516-295-89999
> >
> > www.yadempowers.org<http://www.yadempowers.org>
> >
> > 516-295-8999
> > Sharon Shapiro Lacks, Board Chairman
> > From: Stewart Prost <sprost82 at gmail.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2025 9:52 PM
> > To: NFB in Judaism <nfbj at nfbnet.org>; Tracy Soforenko <
> tracy.soforenko at gmail.com>; Rachel Balali <rahel.Balali0863 at gmail.com>;
> Dale HELTZER <deheltzer at msn.com>; Rachel Bodek <rybodek at gmail.com>; Rabbi
> Lenny Sarko <rabbi at rabbisarko.org>; Tracy Cady <tracy.swidler at gmail.com>;
> mlevy at verse-onality.com
> > Subject: Information from Rabbi Lenny Sarko
> >
> > Greetings all,
> > Please see the attached information from Rabbi Lenny Sarko.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Stewart Prost, Chair, NFB in Judaism Group
> > Phone: 757-572-6891
> > Fax: 757-210-7504
> > Email: sprost82 at gmail.com<mailto:sprost82 at gmail.com>
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