[Nfbk] "Rope" Conversation

[Kevin Pearl]

I know you have read the messages about the KSB students and the rope.  I want to share a conversation from the Kentucky School for the Blind Alumni Facebook Page.  This took place between about 4PM Thursday and 5PM today.  I am truly amazed at some of these comments.

Kevin Pearl
This last Tuesday Kentucky School for the Blind staff members were taking a group of high school students from their summer program to swim at the Jewish Community Center. The students were told that they had to all hold on to a rope so that no one would get separated from the group. One brave student refused so the staff had everyone get back on the bus and swimming was cancelled. On the previous day, a middle school student had wandered from the group. That was the justification for humiliating the high school students. To me, this is simply appalling! Bad choices were made and these kids were humiliated. If the kids don't have enough mobility skills or there isn't enough staff to handle the situation, they should not have taken this trip. High school can be a difficult time for kids. And blind kids can sometimes have a difficult time fitting in. To treat them like animals is just inexcusable to me. If you share my concern, please contact KSB and let them know. 

Marty Eugene Montgomery I have to say while this may not appear to be what should have been done. Until we know for sure if any of the students involved didn't have some condition that would make them wander at times then we should not be complaining and I'm sure because of HIPAA and such we can never know such things. Also it's a very short term program where all the students involved may not be known by all the staff/faculty involved as well as others.

Kevin Pearl I have to disagree. If this can't be done in a respectful manner, it should not be done at all.

Sheila Maurer I agree there are enough stereotypes and lables put on the blind/visually impaired kids/adults out there we don't need anything else. Shame on them.

Angie Spicer Aint no way i'd hold on to a rope with other VI kids when i was in school. Kids wondered off but we never had to do that and i wouldnt do it they told me too. I understand the concern of losein a kid but man thats just sad and wrong. poor kids. 

Kevin Pearl I encourage you all to contact John Roberts at KSB and ask him to guarantee that this will not happen again.

Kevin Pearl Now I am told they were doing this to elementary students. I wonder if anyone working their had an issue with this? I wonder if parents knew this was happening? I don't have a child in the Summer Enrichment Program. But I was a student at KSB. I can still remember how it felt being away from home at 5 years old.

Carla Ruschival Adam and I were just down there this afternoon. No kids Heard no one being told to hold on to a rope. Kids all having a great time; lots of happy sounds.

Katie Adkins It's completely uncalled for in any situation. If some students need extra help you partner them with other students, this is what's done is public schools and up until now has always been done at KSB. I hope that everyone takes the time to call John Roberts and let him know that this can't happen again.

Kevin Pearl Carla, I'm happy to hear things were going well this afternoon. Maybe some of the comments made by the public are getting their attention.

Maria Davis Jones I'm sure the kids are having a great time. No one is disputing that. However, there weren't happy sounds that day at the pool when those high schoolers were told to hold the rope. When the students asked why, they were told it was because "we" (the staff) "said so." Not a team building activity that they are now claiming it was.

Marty Eugene Montgomery It may not be a good team building eperience but yes /students/ should always do what staff tell them If after it's done it's proven the staff were wrong to have done that, then things get done about it. Students especially any under 18 have no right to refuse. School is not a democracy anywhere.

Kevin Pearl Everyone, please post this story on your own facebook timelines, twitter and mailing lists to let all YOUR friends about it. Share it as widely as possible. My aim is not to punish or embarrass KSB. Just to fix the situation.

Ashley Nicole Reynolds I think KSB is a great place and school. After hearing this, it makes me feel sorry for those kids. I'm completely blind and user of hearing aids, and ain't no way I would have hheld on to a rope, I'm not a pet.. Age is not a factor here, being treated like a normal individual is though, and I am proud of everyone who is standing strong in this issue.

Carla Ruschival Kevin, were you at the Jewish Community Center Tuesday night and did you see this happen?

Kevin Pearl Carla, no, I was not there. But this did happen. Nobody is denying it happened.

Carla Ruschival So who did see it happen? Hopefully that person or person(s) will give us their eyewitness account.

Aaron Samuel Linson Sighted kids don't have to hold a rope, I called John Roberts and he had nothing to say. Ashley Erwin I believe ur not looking at the big picture. Put yourself in the kids situation. I wouldn't do anything like hanging on to a rope if in was a kid their. It doesn't matter if they are short course or not they are still kids and needed to be treated as such not animals. I am very disappointed in Ksb for doing this. I'm glad a graduated when I did.

Ashley Dahmke Erwin Aaron yes sighted kids do hold a rope in some schools on outings I have seen it and it is for safety to keep the group together. I dont need to be bashed for my comment. I did not, I repeat not say it was okay or not okay just making the point that even sighted children hold a rope from time to time.

Marty Eugene Montgomery Actually sighted kids /do/ have to hold on to a rope I know of parents that have done this and just within the last two weeks have seen a daycare run by a church that does this. So yes they do, do this for sighted kids, maybe not older kids but then depending on the level of functioning they might.

Ashley Dahmke Erwin I dont think the whole outing should have been canceled that should have been handled different. However fact of the matter we were not there.

Marty Eugene Montgomery Yes no one who has posted was there, so we don't know all the facts. What would be good is if the other students on the outing would tell what went on but doubt they will. However, as goes for anything in any situation until you're in that situation or have a child in that situation you have no real reason to complain. You do have the right to inquire if it went on however, other than that you still don't have the right to complain or if it wasn't exactly like that, compliment, either.

Ashley Dahmke Erwin If I were a parent of the students I would be MORE angry that they didnt get to swim.

Aaron Samuel Linson I see your point however Ksb saying that it was an exercise is wrong. Therefore it makes me believe that this did happen and they are trying to cover it up. I still hold to my opinions a rope is not necessary at all. Blind peop,e are not animals or just .

Carla Ruschival Not sure what the statement about being treated like animals means. I can't think of any animals (except for some in a circus that are highly trained) that could be expected to hold on to a rope when instructed to do so. That statement is, quite frankly, inflammatory rhetoric, and does not demonstrate a desire to discover what really happened and if need be seek a resolution to the problem.

Ashley Dahmke Erwin Well said Carla.

Kevin Pearl Carla, I know a child who was there. It's up to that child or their parents if they want to come here to discuss it.

Kevin Pearl Ashley Dahmke Erwin This is not an attack at you, but I have a hard time believing that sighted high school students have to be lead by a rope.

Kevin Pearl Marty Eugene Montgomery, its my OPINION that blind people can and should stand up for all blind people when necessary. I'm not looking for KSB to be punished or embarrassed. I just want an assurance that this won't happen again. Just my two cents. Your mileage may vary.

Kevin Pearl To clarify, The issue was brought to my attention from events that happened to high school students on Tuesday. I then learned that it had been happening to elementary students for the passed two weeks. I entered KSB at age 5. We didn't needs ropes then and we don't need them now. I truly appreciate your input and that of all those who are commenting. I believe I am on the correct side of this issue. But it is a great opportunity for everyone to share their thoughts.

Aaron Samuel Linson I wouldn't want to be led by a rope if I was a high school student or a elementary student. It doesn't matter the age at all, the point is KSB made a decision that affects all of us. I will not put my kid if VI/blind at KSB if they had to hold on to ropes, what about sighted guide or letting the teachers help them, that's their job as teacher's is to be responsible for their students not put that responsibility on to a rope and do a half ass job.
 
Ashley Nicole Reynolds I don't think we're trying to bash each other. I have lots of great memories at KSB so would never want to make them feel embarrassed etc. Just was surprised when I heard this. Maybe this isn't a huge idea, I just think communication is very important. If we're going to bring up this issue here are some questions. Who told you this happened? What exactly happened? I may be a little behind here, but were they using the rope while walking? or swimming? If it's walking, then my opinion would be to use our canes and have sighted guides, just as is taught in mobility. Everyone has their own opinions so that's okay. Just still confused on how the rope was actually used. LOL

Kevin Pearl I was told about this from the parent of a high school student who was there. The rope was to get them from the bus to the building. I'm as sure as I can be that the rope was never meant for the pool.

Ashley Nicole Reynolds So was it a game? They were supposed to use the rope? That's , interesting mobility..

Ashley Nicole Reynolds and I didn't mean to question you, was just a little confused. sorry

Kevin Pearl The phrase, "team building exercise" was used by staff the next day when word started getting around about this. The rope is a fact. Their motivation is open to interpretation.

Marty Eugene Montgomery Until the staff involved answers truthfully we will never know the full facts. I myself as a high school student /may/ not want to hold a rope but if I had been told to hold a rope or face punishment I would have.

Kevin Pearl Ashley Nicole Reynolds, no offense taken. I want to make this as clear as I can.

Ashley Nicole Reynolds It's all good, and I think that is silly and I know the mobility teachers would too.

Kevin Pearl Marty Eugene Montgomery, I respect your position. But I am also glad that one student chose to refuse the rope. These things are never black and white. Respect for teachers is important and necessary. But I believe, IN THIS CASE, the student did the correct thing.

Ashley Nicole Reynolds I got scolded there for just walking with a friend..

Ashley Nicole Reynolds when we were using our canes, so I guess I don't understand why the rope was necessary

Kevin Pearl Amen sister.

Marty Eugene Montgomery I have a feeling, there are students who while still having a cane, may also need the reinforcement of a rope.... As I stated above I know of sighted people and a daycare that do this technique so I don't see it being any different. Also all of the miobility skills may not be the same as well. There are some who do better than the best sighted person but there's some who are sober 24/7 that watching them walk you'd suspect they had been drinking. and their cane usage is far from the best technique as well. Then there are those who fit one or the other category whether unable to walk straight, or very poor cane skills.

Katie Adkins This whole conversation makes me sad. For those of you that are blind, how would you feel if you were out in public and denied access to your cane, a guide dog, or sighted guide and instead were forced to hold on to a rope that a sighted person was using to guide you? I would hope that you would find the situation unacceptable. If it's unacceptable for us, then what makes it okay for it to happen to children? KSB for as long as I've been alive has kids that had other handicaps beyond being blind that had to be addressed, but they were never disrespected publicly in this manner. As for this happening in actual high schools, I personally attended 5 public high schools and this never even came close to happening, parents wouldn't have allowed it to happen, and kids wouldn't have gone along with it, period. If it is happening at some random school somewhere, then it's wrong there too.

Ashley Nicole Reynolds I agree with you Katie. I use crutches for that sometimes, and if the student has bad mobility, then it falls on their teacher. You have to teach the student mobility skills, I'm pretty sure a daycare situation is not the same as a high school group. Makes me sick.

Ashley Nicole Reynolds ai wouldn't say it's always the teacher, but just saying that you can't blame a student for bad mobility and giving them a rope instead of a cane...very unacceptable.

Katie Adkins It's not the same Ashley, when it's used at day cares the kids are typically five and under and not capable of keeping up with a partner. NFBGL was just at KSB on Saturday with the high school and middle school students, we're there some students that would need extra help on an outing, over course there was but there was also enough other kids that could have been paired off with these students. They were just walking from the parking lot to the pool, if you can't keep up with kids for that short of a distance then either don't take the trip or find a different line of work.

Marty Eugene Montgomery If it meant getting to do an activity or not and for whatever reason there was not alternate at that point. I'd grab the rope. Allso as far as mobility being taught, yes it can be taught, but if the student on their own time chooses to not put it into practice then that's not the mobility teacher's responsibility. Students /will/ llie about doing things after being released just to get released I didn't but I know of a situation myself when I was in mobility I was told to get on a bus and get off at a certain street. Yes said teacher was behind in a car or on same bus watching or something but if I remember correctly I wasn't to inform the driver and was to do it myself. Needless to say I ended up getting off at breckingridge, instead of Canon.

Ashley Nicole Reynolds Katie, I completely agree with you. That's why when I said we're talking about a high school group, I think the person bringing up the daycare thing, that doesn't have much to do with blind students needing to use their canes. So walking with a rope is putting mobility in to good practice?

Ashley Nicole Reynolds and also Katie to answer your question because I take my cane everywhere.. If I were denyed that and all I could use was a rope? I'd walk away even if it meant not knowing where I'mgoing.. I'd feel like someone just took my eyes right out of me. That's what you're doing when you take a blind person's cane away, you are taking their eyes.

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