[nfbmi-talk] they are still jawboning about role ofcommission now?

Elizabeth lizmohnke at hotmail.com
Wed May 5 18:54:48 UTC 2010 

Again, I do not appreciate the personal attacks I continue to receive from you. I have noticed several members posting duplicate messages on the list, so I was not singling you out with my post. Furthermore, your continuing personal attacks against me only seem to demonstrate your lack of respect towards women. Since you personally name me in several of your posts which are addressed to the community at large, I would assume that you are talking about me in your posts. In several of your posts you also speak of people being ignorant towards what is going on within the Michigan Commission for the Blind. Since these statements are found in messages where you personally mention my name, it is possible to conclude that these references are about me. 
 
All I can say is that it’s a darn good thing that I’m not cynical about what is going on in regards to the Michigan Commission for the Blind. I honestly do not receive a dime from the Michigan Commission for the Blind, so technically I really should not care about what kind of services the Commission for the Blind is providing to college students since I am not receiving any of them. I mean in all honesty if I can make it as a blind college student all on my own without the help of the Michigan Commission for the Blind, then why the hell can’t everyone else do the exact same thing?
 
But no, I don’t have this attitude as I am trying to do my best to make sure that what happened to me does not happen to anyone else. And what do I get in return, not a darn thing. In fact most of the time it feels as though no one takes me seriously even though I understand the issues, have read through the Rehabilitation Act several times and actually understand it, and want to make a difference for the future generations yet to come. But if no one takes the time to take college students seriously and show them a bit of respect, then there will not be anyone there to continue the legacy we are trying to build in the National Federation of the Blind of Michigan.
 
Since it appears as though my simple request has turned into such a huge argument on the list, I will be temporarily removing myself from the list. I do not believe such arguments should occur on the list, and by removing myself from the list, I hope that it will remove the argument as well. I ask that you will at least have the common courtesy not to mention my name during my absence.
 
Elizabeth
 
> From: joeharcz at comcast.net
> To: nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
> Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 08:01:10 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] they are still jawboning about role ofcommission now?
> 
> Basically Elizabeth calling me a "troll" is a personal attack on a list 
> member and a member of NFB MI. In the list biz that is called "flaming".
> 
> My posts are technical assistance and go to fact finding as well.
> 
> I've pretty much spent 24 seven the past few months working on these issues 
> that will and are impacting the lives and futures of Michigan's blind 
> population, including yours by the way.
> 
> The utter disregard and the personal attacks are far from respectful as you 
> suggest. They are in fact "self-blinding" to the documented crisis in 
> services for the blind: consumer control over the policies and actions of 
> MCB; and offer a "blind eye"" to the utter corruption of the process by 
> attempting to shoot the messenger.
> 
> I do not wish for a pat on the back, money, or even positive recognition for 
> my efforts, but I certainly do not expect a slap in the face over and over 
> again for my efforts.
> 
> Moreover, they represent a slap in the face of other patriots including, but 
> not limited to Larry, Fred, Christine, Ray, Terry Eagle, and so many others 
> (I know I omitted many) who have been busting their humps to clean up this 
> travesty.
> 
> No one, including myself has denigrated your efforts related to college 
> policy, though I too, worked on nullifying some of the same problems years 
> back that have appeared over and over again while on the CIC. Those efforts 
> in the past have been brought up to you and show an historical context about 
> MCB's utter violations of several laws and its stubborn adherance to 
> continued violations -- an history that will be repeated if you do not know 
> it. Moreover, you benefit directly in your educational pursuits from those 
> past efforts. One, would think one would say, "Thank you."
> 
> 
> If you truly wish to be ignorant and by that I mean literally not to know, 
> which is what that word means than be my guest. Blind folks have been denied 
> for years basic information from text books to state plans to you name it 
> solely to keep us ignorant, in the dark, and so that we might be treated in 
> paternalistic ways and controlled. What is fundamental here is something 
> called "freedom" and only through enlightenment will that take place.
> 
> No democracy, including MCB can function in secret and serve the people it 
> is to serve.
> 
> Moreover, I harken back to the words of Raymond Robertson from the summer 
> quarterly meeting of MCB in 2008 which I received through FOIA and listened 
> to in full. He called openly for Cannon to resign then and he had the 
> righteous and goodly temerity to say, "You, MCB do not exist without us 
> (blind people)." In fact that goes to the core. Moreover he stated correctly 
> that our board is to run the Director and not the other way around. And it 
> in turn is to be accountable and accessible to stakeholders and consumers. 
> That includes by the way all the citizens of the state of Michigan.
> 
> I will end by quoting Martin Luther King, Jr. on this general issue: "All 
> that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to remain silent." I 
> won't be silent.
> 
> Peace with Justice,
> 
> Joe
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Elizabeth" <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>
> To: <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [infamy-talk] they are still jawboning about role of now?
> 
> 
> >
> > Hello Joe,
> >
> > Since it appears as though you do not appreciate receiving my messages as 
> > much as I do not appreciate receiving your messages, then perhaps we 
> > should agree to disagree. If you feel as though you have a right to post 
> > your messages, then I should have the same right to respond to them. 
> > However, for the record, I do not appreciate seeing trolls take over an 
> > email list, and would like to see those who are in charge of the list to 
> > set some guidelines for the list. As the saying goes, You can catch more 
> > bees with honey than you can with vinegar.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> > Elizabeth
> >
> >> From: joeharcz at comcast.net
> >> To: nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
> >> Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 21:24:42 -0400
> >> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] they are still jawboning about role of 
> >> commission now?
> >>
> >> Are many on the list aware of important information like this or other
> >> relevant ininformation in latter years in funding including by the way
> >> funding for postsecondary ed? If you look carefully at the reports over 
> >> the
> >> years you will see that while in some years aggregate spending might just
> >> increase the numbers of blind persons actually funded to go to college or
> >> other postsecondary programs have gone down...But you'll be happy to know
> >> that Administrative spending as percentage has pretty much gone up year 
> >> in
> >> and year out.
> >>
> >> Another thing Elizabeth and with all do respect I have a mother already 
> >> and
> >> I really don't appreciate it for being chastised in a condescending tone
> >> over and over again. It is not productive and it is not respectful. It is
> >> also simply not productive whatsoever.
> >>
> >> Joe
> >> MCB RSA Annual Review Report FY 2007From
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> In FY 2007 MCB used $17,503,634 for its VR program, an increase of 1.98%.
> >> Compared to the prior year, the use of funds for administration increased 
> >> by
> >> 19.83%
> >>
> >> and the use of funds for all client services decreased by 3.58%. Of the
> >> funds used for client services, 72.23% was used for services provided
> >> directly
> >>
> >> by the agency and 27.77% was used for services purchased from other
> >> providers.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Table 21. Funds used
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Table with 5 columns and 6 rows
> >>
> >> Type of funds
> >>
> >> FY 2007
> >>
> >> Increase or decrease from prior year
> >>
> >> Percent of agency total
> >>
> >> National average for blind agencies
> >>
> >> Administrative
> >>
> >> $4,885,285
> >>
> >> +808,375
> >>
> >> 27.91%
> >>
> >> 17.81%
> >>
> >> Total all client services
> >>
> >> $12,618,349
> >>
> >> -468,571
> >>
> >> 72.09%
> >>
> >> 82.19%
> >>
> >> Agency-provided services
> >>
> >> $9,114,617
> >>
> >> -1,854,543
> >>
> >> 52.07%
> >>
> >> 47.38%
> >>
> >> Purchased services
> >>
> >> $3,503,732
> >>
> >> +1,385,972
> >>
> >> 20.02%
> >>
> >> 34.81%
> >>
> >> Total funds used
> >>
> >> $17,503,634
> >>
> >> +339,804
> >>
> >> 100.00%
> >>
> >> 100.00%
> >>
> >> table end
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Unused funds of $1,711,233 were available for carryover to FY 2008.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> C. Expenditures on services
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Of the $12,618,349 used on client services, 32.07% or $4,046,094 was used 
> >> on
> >> services to groups. The following table provides the remaining 
> >> expenditures
> >>
> >> on services provided to individuals, whether purchased or provided 
> >> directly
> >> by MCB.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Table 22. Services provided to individuals
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Table with 5 columns and 12 rows
> >>
> >> Service
> >>
> >> FY 2007
> >>
> >> Increase or decrease from prior year
> >>
> >> Percent of agency total
> >>
> >> National average for blind agencies
> >>
> >> Assessment, counseling, guidance, and placement provided by MCB personnel
> >>
> >> $1,854,601
> >>
> >> -257,814
> >>
> >> 14.70%
> >>
> >> 32.70%
> >>
> >> Assessment (purchased only)
> >>
> >> $800,746
> >>
> >> +101,897
> >>
> >> 6.35%
> >>
> >> 2.45%
> >>
> >> Placement (purchased only)
> >>
> >> $84,381
> >>
> >> -72,958
> >>
> >> 0.67%
> >>
> >> 1.77%
> >>
> >> Treatment of physical and mental impairments
> >>
> >> $55,866
> >>
> >> -60,855
> >>
> >> 0.44%
> >>
> >> 7.30%
> >>
> >> Postsecondary education
> >>
> >> $965,463
> >>
> >> +348,848
> >>
> >> 7.65%
> >>
> >> 4.74%
> >>
> >> Other training and education
> >>
> >> $396,091
> >>
> >> -2,893,315
> >>
> >> 3.14%
> >>
> >> 22.00%
> >>
> >> Assistance with living expenses
> >>
> >> $156,179
> >>
> >> +56,703
> >>
> >> 1.24%
> >>
> >> 2.71%
> >>
> >> Transportation
> >>
> >> $109,677
> >>
> >> +105,574
> >>
> >> 0.87%
> >>
> >> 1.41%
> >>
> >> Personal assistance, reader, or interpreter services
> >>
> >> $48,351
> >>
> >> -98,657
> >>
> >> 0.38%
> >>
> >> 0.58%
> >>
> >> All other services
> >>
> >> $886,978
> >>
> >> +180,246
> >>
> >> 7.03%
> >>
> >> 10.62%
> >>
> >> Total expenditures on services provided to individuals
> >>
> >> $8,572,255
> >>
> >> +623,591
> >>
> >> 67.93%
> >>
> >> 87.90%
> >>
> >> table end
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Of the $12,618,349 used on client services, 3.30% or $416,482 was used on
> >> rehabilitation technology services.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Elizabeth" <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>
> >> To: <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 8:27 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] they are still jawboning about role of 
> >> commission
> >> now?
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Hello Joe,
> >> >
> >> > Many of us on the list are aware of the things that have been discussed 
> >> > at
> >> > the Michigan Commission for the Blind board meetings over the past few
> >> > years. Furthermore, the minutes of these board meetings can easily be
> >> > found on the Michigan Commission for the Blind website for anyone to 
> >> > read.
> >> > I ask that you please keep this in mind when posting to the list.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > Elizabeth
> >> >
> >> >> From: joeharcz at comcast.net
> >> >> To: nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
> >> >> Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 18:07:36 -0400
> >> >> Subject: [nfbmi-talk] they are still jawboning about role of 
> >> >> commission
> >> >> now?
> >> >>
> >> >> http://www.michigan.gov/dleg/0,1607,7-154-28077_28313-205402--,00.html
> >> >>
> >> >> SEPTEMBER 18, 2008
> >> >>
> >> >> VICTOR BUILDING
> >> >>
> >> >> LANSING, MICHIGAN
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> RETREAT MINUTES
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> COMMISSIONERS PRESENT
> >> >>
> >> >> Ms. Jo Ann Pilarski, Chair
> >> >>
> >> >> Ms. Velma Allen, Vice-Chair
> >> >>
> >> >> Ms. Margaret Wolfe
> >> >>
> >> >> Mr. Mark Eagle
> >> >>
> >> >> Ms. Geri Taeckens
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> COMMISSIONERS ABSENT
> >> >>
> >> >> None
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> MICHIGAN COMMISSION FOR THE BLIND (MCB) STAFF PRESENT
> >> >>
> >> >> Mr. Patrick Cannon
> >> >>
> >> >> Ms. Sue Luzenski
> >> >>
> >> >> Mr. Leamon Jones
> >> >>
> >> >> Ms. Sherri Heibeck
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> GUESTS/ATTENDEES
> >> >>
> >> >> Mr. Terry Eagle
> >> >>
> >> >> Mr. Raymond Roberson
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Committee of the whole called to order at 2:20 p.m.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Training on Role and Representation of Commissioners
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Commissioner Allen opened the meeting speaking about a training module
> >> >> that her and Director Cannon had taken part of during the NCSAB
> >> >> conference in April
> >> >>
> >> >> 2008. The training module focused on the role and representation of
> >> >> commissioners, clarifying the roles and relationships between the
> >> >> commissioners and
> >> >>
> >> >> the administration in relation to directing the Director, not 
> >> >> dictating
> >> >> or micro-managing. Commissioner Allen looked into presenting the 
> >> >> training
> >> >> module
> >> >>
> >> >> at the retreat but a more in-depth look into accessing it and the 
> >> >> length
> >> >> needs to be done by staff. Sue Luzenski will circulate a document that
> >> >> was prepared
> >> >>
> >> >> called Communications Protocol that may address some of these 
> >> >> questions.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Dialogue moved into talking about the Director's objectives and how 
> >> >> the
> >> >> Commissioners have taken a more active role than in the past. Director
> >> >> Cannon stated
> >> >>
> >> >> that the MCB Director is not only accountable to the Commissioners but
> >> >> also reports to Deputy Director Levin in DLEG and is held accountable 
> >> >> by
> >> >> that office.
> >> >>
> >> >> Director Cannon stated that the Action Plan is a useful management 
> >> >> tool
> >> >> which states clearly the goals and progress of staff. The plan 
> >> >> contains
> >> >> many objectives
> >> >>
> >> >> related to the Director's evaluation.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> P.A. 260
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Chair Pilarski asked Commissioners to come forward with any issues or
> >> >> thoughts regarding PA 260. The law is still relevant today though 
> >> >> current
> >> >> practices
> >> >>
> >> >> may be different in some instances than which is stated in the 1978
> >> >> statute. Commissioner Taeckens brought up concerns regarding section
> >> >> 393.356, Education
> >> >>
> >> >> of Blind Youth. Commissioner Taeckens conducted a training program at
> >> >> Camp Tuhsmeheta this summer and notes that, in her view, the children
> >> >> were lacking
> >> >>
> >> >> in skills of independence. She asked what the Commission is doing to
> >> >> address the issue of educating blind kids. Leamon Jones spoke 
> >> >> regarding
> >> >> the role the
> >> >>
> >> >> Commission plays in making sure that all MCB does is in compliance 
> >> >> with
> >> >> special education limits. MCB currently has an MOU between MCB, DLEG 
> >> >> and
> >> >> the Department
> >> >>
> >> >> of Education and MCB has made summer transition programs a focus. 
> >> >> Further
> >> >> discussion centered around what the commission can do to begin 
> >> >> educating
> >> >> youth
> >> >>
> >> >> earlier, communicating what services are currently available for blind
> >> >> youth age 14 and older, exposing blind youth to the tools necessary to
> >> >> help them
> >> >>
> >> >> be successful into adulthood both socially and economically, 
> >> >> determining
> >> >> how much Braille teaching time is necessary to become proficient, 
> >> >> having
> >> >> Braille
> >> >>
> >> >> and sign language be part of the Special Education Teacher curriculum
> >> >> during college, combating the notion of low expectations for blind and
> >> >> visually impaired
> >> >>
> >> >> youth, advocate groups that are currently formed to prioritize and
> >> >> address these issues and focusing on educating parents to advocate for
> >> >> their blind youth.
> >> >>
> >> >> The end result of this discussion was to have 1 or 2 of these advocate
> >> >> groups at a future commissioner meeting to discuss these priorities. 
> >> >> It
> >> >> was suggested
> >> >>
> >> >> that a paper be put together regarding guiding principles for 
> >> >> educating
> >> >> blind youth for topics of discussion to the Superintendent of public
> >> >> education.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Bylaws
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Commissioner Eagle brought raised the point that portions of the
> >> >> Commissioner bylaws are outdated and need to be revised. Discussion
> >> >> included creating a
> >> >>
> >> >> 1 - 2 person sub-committee to review the bylaws, bring any
> >> >> recommendations to the Board at a future commission meeting and 
> >> >> consider
> >> >> proposals to changes
> >> >>
> >> >> in the bylaws. Chair Pilarski indicated topics to be looked at: 
> >> >> purpose
> >> >> of the board, role as liaison to MCB committees and definition of a
> >> >> consumer. Other
> >> >>
> >> >> items discussed was whether or not the vice-chair needs to be 
> >> >> re-elected
> >> >> each year; an informal poll concluded that the commissioners do want 
> >> >> to
> >> >> re-elect
> >> >>
> >> >> the vice-chair each year.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Chair Pilarski stated that she has received inquiries from BEP 
> >> >> Operators
> >> >> regarding the role of Commissioners and BEP. Sherri Heibeck clarified 
> >> >> who
> >> >> is the
> >> >>
> >> >> responsible authority of the BEP program. The Board's role is to have 
> >> >> the
> >> >> final say on ALJ decisions and BEP policies. Legal action beyond the
> >> >> agency goes
> >> >>
> >> >> to Federal arbitration and then civil court.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Board Meeting Structure
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Chair Pilarski raised the issue of public comment at recent commission
> >> >> meetings and the confrontational tone demonstrated by some 
> >> >> individuals.
> >> >> There was
> >> >>
> >> >> further discussion on how to provide ample time for public comment and
> >> >> consumer involvement and still maintain orderly and respectful
> >> >> communications. Ms.
> >> >>
> >> >> Heibeck stated there are rules for conduct on any owned or leased 
> >> >> state
> >> >> property and the DMB Policy for conduct on state property can be
> >> >> forwarded to the
> >> >>
> >> >> Commissioners for their review.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Another question was posed as to the number of meetings MCB has. 
> >> >> Director
> >> >> Cannon spoke to the Rehab Act and how it states that there must be at
> >> >> least 4
> >> >>
> >> >> meetings a year. The state has mandated a cut in meetings in response 
> >> >> to
> >> >> the budget situation. Director Cannon noted that although regular
> >> >> meetings have
> >> >>
> >> >> been reduced to once every 3 months, the Chair can call a special 
> >> >> meeting
> >> >> if an urgent issue arises which cannot wait until the next scheduled
> >> >> meeting.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Another issue is the meeting not moving around the state allowing the
> >> >> exposure to all consumers throughout the state. Commissioner Taeckens
> >> >> suggested having
> >> >>
> >> >> a common meeting place where consumers can congregate to participate 
> >> >> as a
> >> >> large group by phone or go to a library to share audio streaming
> >> >> capabilities
> >> >>
> >> >> during a commission meeting. There was also discussion about 
> >> >> conducting
> >> >> all of the meetings in Lansing as opposed to holding some meetings in
> >> >> different
> >> >>
> >> >> parts of the state as had been done in the past. It was agreed that
> >> >> consideration should be given to holding one meeting next year in the
> >> >> northern part
> >> >>
> >> >> of the state, perhaps Marquette in the fall.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Public Comment
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Terry Eagle:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Mr. Eagle stated there is an issue with correspondence between people 
> >> >> who
> >> >> write to the board but get a response from Director Cannon. He stated 
> >> >> the
> >> >> board
> >> >>
> >> >> should be united, talking amongst themselves and coming up with a
> >> >> response, not push this off on an administrator. There should be a 
> >> >> duty
> >> >> to respond to
> >> >>
> >> >> them directly as a board.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Mr. Eagle commented when MCB started there was 11 meetings with two 15
> >> >> minute public comment sections, then meetings were reduced to 6 and 
> >> >> now
> >> >> to 4 a year.
> >> >>
> >> >> Mr. Eagle agreed with putting a timer on public comment, other 
> >> >> solutions
> >> >> could be a sign up sheet, issues spoken of being specific to agenda
> >> >> items, public
> >> >>
> >> >> comment held before lunch and then again at the end of the meeting.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Ray Roberson
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Mr. Roberson stated that there is insufficient time for public comment 
> >> >> at
> >> >> commission meeting. How will the commission know what problems the 
> >> >> public
> >> >> is facing
> >> >>
> >> >> if you don't hear from consumers? If there are problems and issues how
> >> >> will the board know if they don't give consumers a chance to speak
> >> >> directly to the
> >> >>
> >> >> board?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Adjourned: 5:18
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ______________________________
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> nfbmi-talk mailing list
> >> >> nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org
> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> >> nfbmi-talk:
> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
> >> >
> >> > _________________________________________________________________
> >> > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your 
> >> > inbox.
> >> > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > nfbmi-talk mailing list
> >> > nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
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> >> > nfbmi-talk:
> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org/joeharcz%40comcast.net
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nfbmi-talk mailing list
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> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
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> > _______________________________________________
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