[nfbmi-talk] Fw: Purpose Statement and Participant Guidelines, Michigan Commission for the Blind Vision 2020 Listserv

Fri May 7 16:31:55 UTC 2010

Thank you Christine and for all that you and other's due.

I did wish to elaborate on a few points here though. Again, I do not wish to 
have anyone leave this list. Nor, do I for the record denegrate or devalue 
the work of a certain individual vis a vis college policies. In fact the 
contrary. I appaud her efforts.

As per the ignorant comment taken very much out of context I made it clear 
that word means, "not to know". We are all ignorant on many fronts. 
Certainly I am ignorant as to certain issues including understanding the RSA 
monitoring and what all those standards and indicators mean for example. And 
let me tell one and all that I am ignorant in the strictest sense of that 
word on a whole lot of things.

But, to be foreclosed or denied information is to impose ignorance upon the 
people. That is why we have an Open Meetings Act, Freedom of Information 
Acts, and the First Amendment among other laws.

In fact it is why learning alternative communications techniques such as 
Braille and the right to recieve and send important information in alternate 
formats is so important to including this list or any other medium.

Not to be undully personal, but my sighted ex-wife had a saying. It was, 
"Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not." now, I am NOT here calling anyone 
personally stupid or even ignorant here.. And I do not write this to be 
personal in any way to anyone on this list, but to point out a fundamental 
truth in that statement generically and generically.

Moreover, I am on a number of list serves and cannot engage in every item or 
comment on every issue. Frankly, some just don't interest me or I don't have 
time to deal with the issues.

I simply delete them.

I know I post a lot and it might well be overwhelming to some. I am not 
offended if any person wishes to delete things. I am also not offended if 
someone wishes to counter, rebut or even criticise negatively a post.

But, to attack a given topic or to otherwise attempt to restrain or limit 
even factual material in the public domain simply cannot be tolerated and 
most especially when those "someone's" are federally funded agents of the 
state.

And that is the case here with MCB 20-20.

We are in the United States of America blessed with the rights of open 
dialogue or even monologue for that matter with our government of all types. 
We are not the old Soviet Union with their restrictions on speech and press 
rights, or Nazi Germany or any other totalitarian form of government from 
the extreme right or the extreme left.

What is particularly insidious about these issues of attempts at prior 
constraint aside from generic ones is that they are targetted at people who 
are blind setting us aside for a different standard which is illegal 
discrimination on its face.

Anyway I'll on these issues in general and specific always live with the old 
saying, "I may disagree with a persons opiniions, but will defend to the 
death the right to say it."

And even more importantly when it comes down to fact finding I love the old 
quote of Senator Daniel Patrick Moynahan when he said, "People are entitled 
to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

So here's a fact:

I posted to the MCB list as a part of an inquiry as to why they were holding 
a closed meeting Monday and referencing legal issues the Eagle case 
reference and asked if "This was the case they were referring too?"

Of course, I did wish for a timely response too. But I got none and 
subsequently I and all the members of the list serve got these notices which 
are and were a clear attempt to stifle lawful expression.

Those are the facts of this matter and they are never going to be ignored by 
yours trully.

I have to dash to lunch. Hope I didn't offend a single person by this 
response. I mean that sincerely. And I do wish that a certain someone would 
not leave this list and do wish to be informed by her on those important 
issues that she is working on. I mean that. I really do.

Peace with Justice,

Joe

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christine Boone" <Christine_Boone at comcast.net>
To: "'NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List'" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Fw: Purpose Statement and Participant 
Guidelines,Michigan Commission for the Blind Vision 2020 Listserv

> Joe,
> Thank you for championing the First amendment rights of Michigan's blind
> citizens!
>
> Thank you for letting your voice be heard!  I urge others to stand up and 
> be
> counted.  Working together, we can make a difference!
> Christine
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of joe harcz Comcast
> Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 10:57 AM
> To: nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nfbmi-talk] Fw: Purpose Statement and Participant
> Guidelines,Michigan Commission for the Blind Vision 2020 Listserv
>
>    This from a state run list serve...Less than an hour later the
> guidelines were amended...(These were new by the way). They are clearly
> violations of the First Amendment and I for one will ignore them. Moreover 
> I
> urge others to get on this list serve which was developed as a means of 
> both
> contributing information and recieving information about blindness and
> activities of MCB broadly.
>
> Let your voices be heard. I will in subsequent posts paste the link to the
> page where people might subscribe to MCB 2020.
>
> If anyone needs assistance in getting through that they may call me at:
> 810516-5262.
>
> I must forewarn folks though that once you post to the list because they 
> are
> so security conscious you will recieve  four e-mails or so in return. The
> first will be to check out if you sent the message and you just respond by
> replying "ok" ...Then they send you a message that that was confirmed. 
> Then
> they send you a message that the moderator has approved your message. Then
> they send you a message that the message was deliverred to the 442 list
> members.
>
> I'm just letting you all know that in advance because it is a "wosa" and
> veryconfusing.
>
> Joe
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Turney, Susan (DELEG)
> To: MCB2020-L at LISTSERV.MICHIGAN.GOV
> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 9:38 AM
> Subject: Purpose Statement and Participant Guidelines, Michigan Commission
> for the Blind Vision 2020 Listserv
>
>
> Michigan Commission for the Blind Vision 2020 Listserv
>
>
>
> Purpose Statement and Participant Guidelines
>
> (Note:  This informational message will be sent to all members of the
> listserv each month.)
>
>
>
> The purpose of this listserv is to provide an interactive forum for people
> who are blind or visually impaired, rehabilitation professionals, and 
> others
> interested in issues related to blindness to share useful information,
> insights, and issues, and to have respectful and productive conversations
> about these topics.  Our goal is to provide a means for constructive
> communication for list members to benefit from each other's knowledge,
> information, and insights.
>
>
>
> Please refrain from sending off-topic posts.
>
>
>
> Please refrain from posting anything related to pending litigation 
> involving
> the Michigan Commission for the Blind.  This includes grievances,
> arbitrations, and compliance reviews still in the adjudication process, as
> well as active litigation in the state and federal courts.  Once such
> litigation has resolved completely, individuals may post comments relating
> to that litigation.  The Michigan Commission for the Blind reminds all
> individuals that such comments should be respectful of all parties 
> involved.
>
>
>
> Please remain respectful of others' opinions at all times.
>
>
>
> While thoughtful, informed discussion and even thoughtful disagreement is
> encouraged, bullying will not be tolerated.
>
>
>
> Please include your first and last name in your postings.  This courtesy
> will be helpful to all listerv users and facilitate more effective
> communications.
>
>
>
> We are seeking to have informed and thoughtful discussions and, as such,
> please include specific information about the topic (ideally, a link), not
> just a general reference to "the education bill" or "the newspaper 
> article."
>
>
>
> Please take private discussions or off-topic conversations off-list.  In
> other words, send such messages to the individual directly, rather than to
> the entire list.  As stated above, bullying will not be tolerated and a
> participant may receive a warning, have his/her posts moderated, or, as a
> last resort, be removed from the list.
>
>
>
> The MCB Vision 2020 Listserv has been a useful communication tool, 
> providing
> opportunities for interesting dialogue on numerous issues affecting
> individuals who are blind.  Your continued participation is encouraged,
> welcomed, and appreciated.  Any questions regarding the use of this 
> listserv
> may be addressed to Susan Turney at 517-241-8631 or turneys at michigan.gov.
>
>
>
>
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