[nfbmi-talk] Fw: [acb-l] employment strategies and disclosure

joe harcz Comcast joeharcz at comcast.net
Wed Apr 6 05:59:48 UTC 2011

Sorry inadvertent post to this list. but then again it does go to issues of 
censorship and general issues of the first amendment.

again though it was inadvertent.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matt McCubbin" <mgoalball at gmail.com>
To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 1:48 AM
Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Fw: [acb-l] employment strategies and disclosure

> Joe,
> What does this message have to do with the NFB of Michigan?
> Best regards,
> Matt
> On 4/6/2011 12:59 AM, joe harcz Comcast wrote:
>> Dear All,
>> This is a self proclaimed bigot. Her services such as they might be
>> should be boycotted.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.Rayl" <thedogmom63 at frontier.com>
>> To: "Mitch Pomerantz" <mitch.pomerantz at earthlink.net>
>> Cc: "Acb List" <acb-l at acb.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 10:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [acb-l] employment strategies and disclosure
>>> Well, I can guarantee you that, even though I am blind, were I
>>> interviewing
>>> for a position in my office, I'd be downright ticked off, and that is
>>> putting it mildly, if some blind person wasted my freaking time by
>>> applying
>>> for a job, then waltzing into my office without telling me she / he
>>> was also
>>> blind. And, I'll be danged if they'd get the pleasure of wasting much of
>>> it. First, I'd wonder just what else she / he was hiding.
>>> Second, most people just don't think its so cool to be surprised or
>>> embarrassed or downright humiliated--and that's exactly what it is.
>>> Yes, as a potential employer, I have the responsibility not to be
>>> discriminatory, and I'm not. Other people with disabilities have the
>>> responsibility to be halfway respectful and reasonable as well.
>>> And, I'll give you a perfect example. My office is not wheelchair
>>> accessible. So someone called whose husband uses a wheelchair. She 
>>> didn't
>>> bother to ask if it was wheelchair accessible, and the appointment was
>>> for
>>> her, not him. So, she jumps out of her van and proceeds to bust in,
>>> running
>>> off at the mouth about filing a complaint against me. I asked whether 
>>> she
>>> wanted information about Human Rights or my license Board, and for what
>>> reason. She informed me her husband wanted to come with her and my 
>>> office
>>> was not WCA.
>>> I said, "Well, before you really file that complaint, you might want to
>>> reconsider. Had you asked, I would have told you that no, it is not;
>>> however, I make accommodations to people who need this in another
>>> place that
>>> is." Well, the wind blew straight out of her little sails.
>>> So it really doesn't pay to be quite so arogant sometimes.
>>> Jessie Rayl
>>> EM: thedogmom63 at frontier.com
>>> PH:304.671.9780
>>> www.facebook.com/eaglewings10
>>> "But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall
>>> mount up with wings as eagles. They shall run, and not be weary"--Isaiah
>>> 40.31
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitch Pomerantz"
>>> <mitch.pomerantz at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "'Jessi Rayl'" <thedogmom63 at frontier.com>; "'peter altschul'"
>>> <paltschul at centurytel.net>
>>> Cc: <acb-l at acb.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 7:22 PM
>>> Subject: RE: [acb-l] employment strategies and disclosure
>>> Jessie:
>>> I essentially agree with you and as my friend Peter has indicated, he
>>> and I
>>> have rather differing views on this issue.
>>> As someone who has conducted my share of interviews over the years, I 
>>> can
>>> tell you firsthand that interviewers absolutely do not like surprises.
>>> That
>>> is why I mention my blindness prior to going in for the interview. That
>>> initial 30 seconds or one or two minutes (Andy is being generous, I
>>> think)
>>> where interviewers are making their initial assessment shouldn't be
>>> taken up
>>> with the interviewers' shock over having a blind candidate with a cane 
>>> or
>>> guide dog in the office. And, as Andy has pointed out, pre-interview
>>> computer tests are quite prevalent; that's one way to obtain a writing
>>> sample that you know hasn't been doctored ahead of time.
>>> Because I've been involved in blindness and disability activities for as
>>> long as I have, my resume is chock full of mentions of ACB, CCB, and
>>> my time
>>> with the California Governor's Committee on Employment of Disabled
>>> Persons.
>>> Right now, if I were applying for another job, I'd list the fact that
>>> I've
>>> been appointed by the former Governor to serve on the California
>>> Commission
>>> on Disability Access.
>>> My bottom line in all of this is that 1. my time is too valuable to
>>> waste on
>>> an employer who can't be told upfront that I am blind; and 2. not 
>>> telling
>>> that employer is more likely than not to result in the would-be employer
>>> attempting to get over his or her surprise at having to deal with one
>>> of us.
>>> Truly, I've never heard of someone getting a job where he or she 
>>> overcame
>>> the interviewers' initial surprise. It's probably happened; but then
>>> again,
>>> if the blind candidate got the job, he or she may well have gotten it if
>>> they'd been upfront from the get-go.
>>> Mitch
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: acb-l-bounces at acb.org [mailto:acb-l-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Jessi Rayl
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 3:28 PM
>>> To: 'peter altschul'
>>> Cc: acb-l at acb.org
>>> Subject: Re: [acb-l] employment strategies and disclosure
>>> Hi. Well, I do a couple things here. First, I make my coverletter /
>>> resume
>>> about my work, my education and my abilities. It probably will not 
>>> state,
>>> specifically, that I am totally blind, however I am associated with
>>> blindness-related things and will not leave these off nor will I go to
>>> any
>>> great lengths to hide that, or other, obvious give-aways to disability.
>>> Also, when obtaining that interview, I will, once I get it, let them
>>> know of
>>> this fact. There are several reasons: 1. I never, ever have anyone
>>> take me
>>> to an interview. If they do, they park well down the block and drop me
>>> off
>>> and I find my own way, which means I've got to get some pretty specific
>>> directions, but I get their on my own--even if it means the office staff
>>> have to tell me (no they do not come out to get me) how to get there.
>>> 2. Some interviews are now done via lunch meetings and the last thing I
>>> want to have happen is the same thing that happened to my blind friend
>>> who
>>> was adamant about not telling of her blindness. She waltzed in with her
>>> blindness, her dog and was suddenly confronted with a group of folks
>>> ready
>>> to get in cars to go to lunch. Well, she had no car, no driver and no 
>>> way
>>> to get there. Guess what she didn't get?
>>> They rescheduled an interview, in an office, and she didn't get the job.
>>> So me? I would inquire about how and where the interviews are conducted,
>>> e.g., are they group, etc. The more info I, and they, have ahead of 
>>> time,
>>> the better prepared we all are. And then, if I suspected I was not
>>> selected, I'd take action at that point. And I have, did, and got a
>>> job as
>>> a result of it too.
>>> Jessie
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: acb-l-bounces at acb.org [mailto:acb-l-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of
>>> peter altschul
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 5:37 PM
>>> To: acb-l at acb.org
>>> Subject: Re: [acb-l] employment strategies and disclosure
>>> Hi:
>>> As I'm sure others have told you, disclosing is a very personal
>>> choice. For
>>> me, I usually find it most effective not to disclose until I actually
>>> show
>>> up for the interview. It's important to stress that my work has 
>>> generally
>>> been in the for-profit and noprofit sectors only marhinally related to
>>> disability. I would disclose earlier for federal government jobs
>>> because of
>>> Schedule A considerations; also, for jobs in the disability sector. I
>>> wrote
>>> an article explaining my rationale for this; if anyone is interested,
>>> let me
>>> know and I will try to find it.
>>> BTW, I know our esteemed President disagrees with me on this.
>>> And one more thing: this issue may be less relevant because in many
>>> cases,
>>> an employer will Google your name and will be pretty sure that you have 
>>> a
>>> disability based on the information there.
>>> Best, Peter
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Baracco, Andrew W" <Andrew.Baracco at va.gov
>>>> To: <acb-l at acb.org
>>>> Date sent: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 14:11:18 -0700
>>>> Subject: Re: [acb-l] employment strategies and disclosure
>>>> Job Fairs are very popular today. Dealing with job fairs is part
>>> of my job. I am either on the other side of the table, representing
>>> the VA
>>> as an employer, or I am there accompanying some of my clients. There
>>> are so
>>> many people there that having someone go with you
>>>> Would not be noticed, but your guide should stay in the
>>> background, and you should approach the table alone. You can have your
>>> guide assist you in filling out an app, if that is being done on the
>>> spot.
>>> As for disclosing blindness, usually it would not be a good idea to
>>> mention
>>> it on a resume unless perhaps you are applying to work at a blindness or
>>> disability services organization, like an independent living center,
>>> but it
>>> should be couched in functional terms, like the fact that you taught
>>> Braille, or something like that. I used to believe that you should never
>>> disclose it at all, but my thinking has changed a bit over the years. I
>>> think that a good time to disclose might be when you are contacted about
>>> arranging an interview.
>>> Sometimes as part of the interview process, there may be a test, or some
>>> kind of functional activity, such as a role play, or perhaps doing
>>> something
>>> with the computer, etc. When scheduling the interview, you might want to
>>> ask if there will be such an activity, and ask if you can bring
>>> someone to
>>> assist, or if they can provide someone to assist. Remember that many
>>> people
>>> have never interacted with a blind person before, and you don’t want 
>>> to
>>> spend your interview time helping them to deal with the shock.
>>> One reason that my thinking has changed on this issue is because in
>>> 2005 we
>>> started a supported employment program for persons with severe mental
>>> illness. Many have issues that make it difficult for them to pursue
>>> employment without assistance and support. Many are good workers once
>>> they
>>> get acclimated to the job, but they cannot tolerate the stress that
>>> accompanies job seeking, and beginning a new job in a new place, with 
>>> new
>>> people, etc. The employment specialist often must help to sell the
>>> employer
>>> on giving the person a try. To my surprise, we have found that employers
>>> are willing to take a chance when they know what the issues are, and, in
>>> this case, that they have a resource to consult if there are problems. 
>>> If
>>> the employer knows that you are blind up front, there is the chance that
>>> they will balk, but if they don’t, you will have the opportunity to
>>> make
>>> the interview work in your favor rather than spending 15 minutes
>>> helping the
>>> interviewer to settle down. Remember that interviewers make judgments
>>> within the first minute or two, so you want to have the opportunity to
>>> use
>>> that time to sell yourself as an employee, not a disabled employee. I am
>>> often asked where there are jobs for disabled persons. I tell them that
>>> there are no jobs for disabled workers, just jobs for good workers.
>>>> Andy
>>>> From: acb-l-bounces at acb.org [mailto:acb-l-bounces at acb.org] On
>>> Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 1:00 PM
>>>> To: Acb List
>>>> Subject: [acb-l] employment strategies and disclosure
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I was wondering about your employment strategies over the years.
>>>> What worked for you? Networking? If so where? Did you join
>>> certain clubs or interest groups?
>>>> Did you go to job fairs with someone?
>>>> If so, how did you stand out in the crowd from other job seekers?
>>>> I’m intraverted so selling myself and speaking to the
>>> recruiters is hard.
>>>> I state my education and what I’m looking for and my
>>> background; but not sure if I stand out from others.
>>>> I go with someone sighted to these because they are very very
>>> crowded and I need to know where certain tables are.
>>>> Also, when in the employment search do you disclose your blind?
>>>> I do not do this initially on my cover letter or resume; except
>>> if its for the government.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> Ashley
>>>> ûï¿
>>> _______________________________________________
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