[nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter

[David Robinson]

Fred, 

   How do you know what we are or are not doing?  Many of us, including Joe,
are putting our voice to making a change in Michigan,and yes, we are also
putting our money there as well.  Joe may be more outspoken on the list
serve, but many of us share his opinion of the corruption that exists.  If
Cannon was in the private sector and did the things he has done, he at the
best, would be fired immediately.  IT is to bad that we, the blind of
Michigan, have to fight the political protection that is protecting Cannon,
but we will and we will do what is right for blind people.  Joe does us a
favor by bringing light to the many issues and wrong doings of the
Commission management, and we are grateful for uhis diligence.  If you could
roll up your sleeves and help us, then doso, but lets not downgrade our
fighters. That is exactly what Cannon would want.  You may have one
perspective, but you are not fighting in the trenches as we are doing every
day.  

Dave Robinson

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of joe harcz Comcast
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 9:35 AM
To: NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter

Huh? Have you not read the copious documentation of what I've put out here?

Facts are again facts. and yes, Pat cannon is indeed a gross, and documented

violator of all laws under his charge.

These are not allegations or pissing points. these are again documented and 
this is a forum for documenting them to in the public domain for cannon 
lives on "spin" control and on slight of hand and PR sorts of dodges. In 
fact in my experience much of the VR system (though not all of it for sure) 
depends upon this sort of fluff to maintain their existence.

Regardless, one needs to only read minutes in the public domain to denote 
the infamy. It is so apparent and so arrogent that these clowns put it in 
the public record.

Now, Fred exactly what are you daring me to do here?




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "fred olver" <goodfolks at charter.net>
To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter


> Joe, I will not comment on Faith Meadows, however if your overall dispute 
> is with the leadership of MCB, that being Pat Cannon and you believe and 
> can substantiate his improprieties as director of MCB then you as a 
> citizen have an obligation to seek his removal as director. If you do not 
> then the responsibility for his remaining in office falls on your head for

> ignoring the illegalities which he as director has perpetrated on the 
> citizens of Michigan who are blind. Your words are like arrows, to me. You

> can, at will seem to use them for good or you can choose to use them for 
> evil, at best, though, at this point I'm beginning to think they are just 
> words and I haven't seen anything to point up the fact that you think Pat 
> Cannon is a bad director. I hear lots of words and some small actions to 
> get the MCB to provide you with specific materials, but I don't see you 
> causing or ensighting change in policy. Again, I would state, if you think

> Mr. Cannon is not good for the commission than find the ammunition to 
> remove him from office. This talk about people wetting on the heads of 
> others etc. becomes very old after a while. In other words, Joe, and I 
> regret to feel a need to say this, put your money where your mouth is. Get

> him out, or take the necessary steps to rid the commission of him and do 
> it well, so no one has any cause for regret. If his work, ethics, 
> decisions are so bad, and you can prove that he has violated the law and 
> the edicts put forth with regard to rehabilitation of blind folks by 
> Congress then show us, and everyone else where he has gone wrong.
>
> Use your words for the good of one and all, not to create devisiveness and

> anger. Nothing you say on this list is going to make a difference to Pat 
> Cannon or anyone else who works for MCB, however if you put your words to 
> use in a public forum and create a series of debating points and an avenue

> for change then you have done your best. I dare you.
>
> Fred Olver
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "joe harcz Comcast" <joeharcz at comcast.net>
> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 7:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>
>
>> Hi Fred,
>>
>> While I substantially agree I'm compelled to point out that Faith acted 
>> publicly and in her public capacity.
>>
>> She did after all pen official board correspondence. If these were simple

>> words between a debating society or even amongst friendly comrades over 
>> an adult beverage or two it wouldn't amount to much and, I'd agree with 
>> you. But, that isn't the case here.
>>
>> This said, I've got no other axe to grind with Faith per se. And in fact 
>> have ironically stood for her in the past.
>>
>> The real issue as you and I and all know is that Pat Cannon fueled this 
>> dog fight for his own Machiavellian purposes.
>>
>> That is the core to his "patronage" game.
>>
>> It is all about jobs after all. And those jobs aren't based upon merit, 
>> but rather, allegiance and fealty to a petty dictator.
>>
>> The evil of it all is that our times in general are as desperate to a 
>> degree as they've ever been for we in America are indeed in a Great 
>> Recession. times are tough for anyone out there especially in Michigan 
>> and times certainly are tougher for people with any disability let alone 
>> those who are blind.
>>
>> Except for the fact that many have the rightful social safety net of 
>> social security the bulk of us would be living on some localized public 
>> assistance or begging literally in the streets of America. Those are 
>> indeed factual statements.
>>
>> This is why the words of this professional, paid for at again the public 
>> teet is so hypocritical; so ironic; and indeed, so dangerous.
>>
>> The fact that Faith is blind, and I think generally competent makes this 
>> all the more insidious.
>>
>> This is an extreme moral issue in my mind.
>>
>> It is not unlike the fact that many Jews in Nazi Germany sold out their 
>> brethren to save their own skins during those troubled times.
>>
>> I understand why those folks did what they did. But we must call gross 
>> immorality even under duress what it is.
>>
>> And, of course as in that moral illustration we must go to the root cause

>> of it all.
>>
>> I'm pretty well convinced that under better leadership, for example that 
>> Faith might well be a positive force for good and positive change. I 
>> won't dispute that for a moment.
>>
>> But, that supports my fundamental premise pointing out  the elephant in 
>> the room. For until Dictator Cannon is gone then nothing will change 
>> positively for the blind of Michigan. And, btw things are going to be 
>> tough enough with the way things are in the over all economy.
>>
>> In these troubled times the activities of publicofficials or those acting

>> in public capacity that are corrupted give fodder to those who wish to 
>> eliminate programs altogether.
>>
>> That, Fred is why the actions of Faith are so perfidious.
>>
>> Finally, while I'm sensitive again to a degree I'm not going to weep and 
>> moan for someone making $60,000 plus while the bulk of the blind are 
>> unemployed. I certainly won't weep for such an individual when she 
>> denigrates en masse those very people she is charged and paid for to 
>> serve. She publicly urinated upon the heads of all blind people 
>> regardless as to race, color, creed, or affiliation. That is intolerable.

>> It is indeed class treason in her own chosen and, again public words.
>>
>> It is because the times are so desperate  and that moral issues are so 
>> profound in desperate times that this issue is so important..
>>
>> And, yes, Faith made a public policy issue very personal to all of us in 
>> word, fact, and deed.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Fred wurtzel" <f.wurtzel at comcast.net>
>> To: "'NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List'" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 10:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I am a little reluctant to get into this thread.   joe,, though I 
>>> disagree
>>> with Faith regarding her comments, I feel it is just what our enemies 
>>> want,
>>> that is, to fight with each other and sew emnity among us when we need 
>>> to
>>> focus on the real issues of lack of direction and leadership from top 
>>> MCB
>>> management.  It appears that Faith is falling into this same trap.  When
>>> clients are called back, have their cases opened in a timely manner, 
>>> don't
>>> show up in Kalamazoo at the Center without having ever met a MCB client,
>>> blind people are not fired and bullied and intimidated for their desire 
>>> to
>>> make things better  and we have 250-300 placements on a regular basis, 
>>> then
>>> we will know that things are improving at MCB.  No matter what anyone 
>>> says
>>> about our motives, these are facts and cannot be denied.  It cannot be
>>> denied who is the top manager and who is in a position to change these
>>> dismal facts.  We need not beat up on one another or compare who is more
>>> trampled on when, in fact, when 1 blind person is trampled on, all of us

>>> are
>>> trampled on, even those who feel privileged and somehow above the fray.
>>> Faith has a record to stand on and we all do to.  None of us need feel
>>> superior or better because some of us have been blessed with opportunity
>>> while others have been held back.  Except for the Grace of God, there go

>>> I.
>>>
>>> warmest Regards,
>>>
>>> Fred
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>> [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of joe harcz Comcast
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 7:37 PM
>>> To: NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>
>>> Meadows isn't living poor. Her salary and credentials are a part of the
>>> public record as again is her nominal code of ethics.
>>>
>>> Listen one and all I've been easy on Faith as I've been on many others. 
>>> But
>>> this is corructed bullshit in a word.
>>>
>>> This garbage is again beyond her code of ethics ethicllly speaking and 
>>> her
>>> own given premise in the field.
>>>
>>> Oh, yes when people make sixty thousand per year plus at the public teet
>>> then they must be held accountable to their own proprofessionaland other
>>> standards for sure.
>>>
>>> I used to feel a bit sorry for the likes of Faith Meadows. I don't at 
>>> all
>>> nowadays for she is a traitor and a direct hypocrite as to her words and
>>> actions as if she would ever have a job in the private sector?
>>>
>>> I ddidn't wish for this to devolve into a blind upon blind campaign, but
>>> dangnit it has and I didn't shoot the first shot across the bow.
>>>
>>> This professional, so-called counselior who makes more than sixty 
>>> thousand
>>> per year at the public teet has the unmitigated temerity to slander an
>>> entire clas for its so-called lack of responsability whilst she and the
>>> entire agency in documented fashion has sucked not only at our very 
>>> blood,
>>> but also violated the very laws that give this crank her paycheck?
>>>
>>> Listen, one and all she slanderrred and attacked me personally in her
>>> innuendo and conjecture while again she suck up federal/state taxpayer
>>> dollars. Now, I'll remin all I'm not a hypocrite. I am decidedly left of
>>> center. Yet for all of my own career, with the exception of three years 
>>> in
>>> the mid-seventies wilst working for the Genesesse count ISD as a 
>>> para-aide
>>> at below union wages until I founded a union in fact I've always worked 
>>> for
>>> the private sector.
>>>
>>> How ironic is that eh?
>>>
>>> I will no longer work for sellouts, incompetents and discriminatory 
>>> actors.
>>>
>>> I just won't.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 6:24 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>
>>>
>>>> Christy, What I'm mostly responding to is that this person whom I know
>>>> well, can attack us and think we are just complaining to do so.  I got
>>>> involved with the NFB because I'm job hunting and am not getting 
>>>> anywhere!
>>>
>>>> This isn't the first time that MS. Meadows has let loose like this. 
>>>> She
>>>> certainly has a right to her oppinion but sence she works in the rehab
>>>> field she should be supporting us in our efforts.  Beeing a person who
>>>> would LOVE!!!  to have a job and is doing everything possible to obtain
>>>> that goal. Well, I guess I am getting tired of being stereotyped as
>>>> someone who would rather live of the government than contribute to it!
>>>> MS. Meadows also claims or was a member of our organization as well.
>>>> Finally, she has become one of those folks who are doing alright and at
>>>> least seem to have most of what we want.  This is a good thin unless 
>>>> you
>>>> do what she has done and judge those of us who are trying and getting
>>>> nowhere!  I, like Mr. Harcz, do believe that They are doing the best 
>>>> they
>>>> can down in Kalamazoo but some folks are not doing the jobs they have 
>>>> well
>>>
>>>> and in fact are not giving deserving blind folks as good a service as 
>>>> they
>>>
>>>> can.  Most of the counsellors are well intentioned.  But training of
>>>> counsellors and clients does need to improve!  I'm very happy that you
>>>> don't really need the services but some folks do and that's what we 
>>>> need
>>>> to improve!
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: <christywitte at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 5:57 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>    I can definitely see why some people are frustrated and even angry.
>>>>> However, last time I checked, our job is not to judge others our spout
>>>>> off. If people could use that energy they feel to accomplish a goal, 
>>>>> like
>>>
>>>>> getting a job it would be great. I'm not responding specifically to
>>>>> anyone on the list. I know that sometimes there are misconceptions 
>>>>> about
>>>>> the commission and what it does and what it does not do. Try to turn 
>>>>> your
>>>
>>>>> tragedies to triumphs. Also, blindness is just one adjective to 
>>>>> describe
>>>>> us; beyond that, we come from all walks of life and so we have many
>>>>> experiences and abilities.  Sometimes, we have to take things in our 
>>>>> own
>>>>> hands. If we do not believe in our own abilities, how do we expect 
>>>>> others
>>>
>>>>> to believe in our abilities. We all must forge ahead to achieve 
>>>>> success;
>>>>> means something to everybody. Some of us are very young or very old, 
>>>>> may
>>>>> have other disabilities, difficult lives, varying levels of skills. We
>>>>> are all given a different lot in life but we need to work within our 
>>>>> own
>>>>> parameters to get things done. The commission can be lacking, this is
>>>>> true, but blaming an organization, which is composed of many people,
>>>>> doesn't get us a paycheck or whatever we feel we want and need
>>>>> individually and as a group. We must forge together and stand together

>>>>> to
>>>
>>>>> win our battles. By the way, I've never gotten assistance from 
>>>>> anybody. I
>>>
>>>>> think about what I would do in their shoes; I also consider how much I
>>>>> would want to help or assist someone who has attacked me. I am not 
>>>>> trying
>>>
>>>>> to offend others nor am I condoning people who don't get the job done.
>>>>> I've also observed that many people in my generation may not fully
>>>>> comprehend their own role in finding employment or understand what the
>>>>> job is going to involve. You have ask yourself: do I have the skills
>>>>> necessary for this job and if I want this job, or one similar to it, 
>>>>> how
>>>>> am I going to personally acquire the skills that are lacking. Many 
>>>>> blind
>>>>> people in my age group are unemployed, and many of those aren't 
>>>>> hitting
>>>>> the pavement every day looking for enjoyable employment. I'm not sure
>>>>> about the reasons. They may feel overwhelmed by the process; they may
>>>>> feel like they are not equipped with the tools necessary to perform 
>>>>> this
>>>>> job. It is kind of like climbing a mountain. You have to locate and 
>>>>> climb
>>>
>>>>> to the higher level.
>>>>> Sorry about the length.
>>>>> Christy
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>>>>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 11:09 PM
>>>>> Subject: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, I'm concerned about her and others who think our commission 
>>>>>> board
>>>>>> is to aggressive!  Does this mean it didn't do much before?  I 
>>>>>> thaught
>>>>>> our board was supposed to actually do something!  Just being the 
>>>>>> blind
>>>>>> man in the street, and correct me if I'm wrong at least 2 of the
>>>>>> commissioners had very good jobs.  I don't really know Lydia but if 
>>>>>> she
>>>>>> doesn't have one she would deffinetly have experience enough for the
>>>>>> board.  Both of the commissioners who quit had good jobs but decided 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> quit anyway because they were out numbered and in my humble oppinion
>>>>>> didn't really have enough interest in making things better for the 
>>>>>> blind
>>>
>>>>>> population as a whole.  It seems to me that when some blind folks get
>>>>>> lucky and get good jobs they forget that most of us are still 
>>>>>> struggling
>>>
>>>>>> for the security and respect they think they have earned!  I am not
>>>>>> slamming everyone that has gotten jobs iether but people like Faith 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> Donna Rose must feel secure in ther jobs so they find us especially 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> NFB tiresome because we still have to scratch and claw for every 
>>>>>> single
>>>>>> rite we gett!  If joblessness and respect were not issues then we
>>>>>> wouldn't have to be aggressive about themm!  But we should always 
>>>>>> insist
>>>
>>>>>> on fair play!  At least the current board wants to do things right 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> abov board!
>>>>>> Intelligence is always claimed but rarely proven!
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org/christywitte%40sbcgl
>>> obal.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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