[nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter

Larry D. Keeler lkeeler at comcast.net
Mon Sep 26 15:04:24 UTC 2011


Truth is always best Joe!  Even though sometimes its sort of hard to 
swallow!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "joe harcz Comcast" <joeharcz at comcast.net>
To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter


> Oh my here you denote your own innate hypocritical nature. for on the one 
> hand you openly attack me for my documentation and then condemn me for the 
> same thing. which's it Fred?
>
> Man I'm just not into this "Brave New World" of "double-speak".
>
> But, again on the one hand you seem to condemn me for documentation of the 
> public trust by the likes of Cannon, et al, and on the other hand you 
> appear to condemn me in the very same message for same.
>
> What is it?
>
> Peace with Justice,
>
> Joe
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "fred olver" <goodfolks at charter.net>
> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 10:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>
>
>> You can call it what you want, Joe, but if you haven't the guts to back 
>> up what you say by putting it in a public forum where it could be acted 
>> upon then the facts speak for themselves.
>>
>> Fred Olver
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "joe harcz Comcast" <joeharcz at comcast.net>
>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 8:48 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>
>>
>>> This is blaming the victims of perfidy for the very perfidy documented 
>>> over and over again Msir.
>>>
>>> This isn't any longer a matter of simple opinion.
>>>
>>>
>>> But you now strike out at the likes of me for "whistle blowing" and then 
>>> blame me for the fact that corrupted powers are still in power?
>>>
>>> How does this make even one iota of sense, even common sense?
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "fred olver" <goodfolks at charter.net>
>>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 9:12 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>
>>>
>>>> Joe, I will not comment on Faith Meadows, however if your overall 
>>>> dispute is with the leadership of MCB, that being Pat Cannon and you 
>>>> believe and can substantiate his improprieties as director of MCB then 
>>>> you as a citizen have an obligation to seek his removal as director. If 
>>>> you do not then the responsibility for his remaining in office falls on 
>>>> your head for ignoring the illegalities which he as director has 
>>>> perpetrated on the citizens of Michigan who are blind. Your words are 
>>>> like arrows, to me. You can, at will seem to use them for good or you 
>>>> can choose to use them for evil, at best, though, at this point I'm 
>>>> beginning to think they are just words and I haven't seen anything to 
>>>> point up the fact that you think Pat Cannon is a bad director. I hear 
>>>> lots of words and some small actions to get the MCB to provide you with 
>>>> specific materials, but I don't see you causing or ensighting change in 
>>>> policy. Again, I would state, if you think Mr. Cannon is not good for 
>>>> the commission than find the ammunition to remove him from office. This 
>>>> talk about people wetting on the heads of others etc. becomes very old 
>>>> after a while. In other words, Joe, and I regret to feel a need to say 
>>>> this, put your money where your mouth is. Get him out, or take the 
>>>> necessary steps to rid the commission of him and do it well, so no one 
>>>> has any cause for regret. If his work, ethics, decisions are so bad, 
>>>> and you can prove that he has violated the law and the edicts put forth 
>>>> with regard to rehabilitation of blind folks by Congress then show us, 
>>>> and everyone else where he has gone wrong.
>>>>
>>>> Use your words for the good of one and all, not to create devisiveness 
>>>> and anger. Nothing you say on this list is going to make a difference 
>>>> to Pat Cannon or anyone else who works for MCB, however if you put your 
>>>> words to use in a public forum and create a series of debating points 
>>>> and an avenue for change then you have done your best. I dare you.
>>>>
>>>> Fred Olver
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "joe harcz Comcast" <joeharcz at comcast.net>
>>>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 7:35 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Fred,
>>>>>
>>>>> While I substantially agree I'm compelled to point out that Faith 
>>>>> acted publicly and in her public capacity.
>>>>>
>>>>> She did after all pen official board correspondence. If these were 
>>>>> simple words between a debating society or even amongst friendly 
>>>>> comrades over an adult beverage or two it wouldn't amount to much and, 
>>>>> I'd agree with you. But, that isn't the case here.
>>>>>
>>>>> This said, I've got no other axe to grind with Faith per se. And in 
>>>>> fact have ironically stood for her in the past.
>>>>>
>>>>> The real issue as you and I and all know is that Pat Cannon fueled 
>>>>> this dog fight for his own Machiavellian purposes.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is the core to his "patronage" game.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is all about jobs after all. And those jobs aren't based upon 
>>>>> merit, but rather, allegiance and fealty to a petty dictator.
>>>>>
>>>>> The evil of it all is that our times in general are as desperate to a 
>>>>> degree as they've ever been for we in America are indeed in a Great 
>>>>> Recession. times are tough for anyone out there especially in Michigan 
>>>>> and times certainly are tougher for people with any disability let 
>>>>> alone those who are blind.
>>>>>
>>>>> Except for the fact that many have the rightful social safety net of 
>>>>> social security the bulk of us would be living on some localized 
>>>>> public assistance or begging literally in the streets of America. 
>>>>> Those are indeed factual statements.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is why the words of this professional, paid for at again the 
>>>>> public teet is so hypocritical; so ironic; and indeed, so dangerous.
>>>>>
>>>>> The fact that Faith is blind, and I think generally competent makes 
>>>>> this all the more insidious.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is an extreme moral issue in my mind.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is not unlike the fact that many Jews in Nazi Germany sold out 
>>>>> their brethren to save their own skins during those troubled times.
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand why those folks did what they did. But we must call gross 
>>>>> immorality even under duress what it is.
>>>>>
>>>>> And, of course as in that moral illustration we must go to the root 
>>>>> cause of it all.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm pretty well convinced that under better leadership, for example 
>>>>> that Faith might well be a positive force for good and positive 
>>>>> change. I won't dispute that for a moment.
>>>>>
>>>>> But, that supports my fundamental premise pointing out  the elephant 
>>>>> in the room. For until Dictator Cannon is gone then nothing will 
>>>>> change positively for the blind of Michigan. And, btw things are going 
>>>>> to be tough enough with the way things are in the over all economy.
>>>>>
>>>>> In these troubled times the activities of publicofficials or those 
>>>>> acting in public capacity that are corrupted give fodder to those who 
>>>>> wish to eliminate programs altogether.
>>>>>
>>>>> That, Fred is why the actions of Faith are so perfidious.
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally, while I'm sensitive again to a degree I'm not going to weep 
>>>>> and moan for someone making $60,000 plus while the bulk of the blind 
>>>>> are unemployed. I certainly won't weep for such an individual when she 
>>>>> denigrates en masse those very people she is charged and paid for to 
>>>>> serve. She publicly urinated upon the heads of all blind people 
>>>>> regardless as to race, color, creed, or affiliation. That is 
>>>>> intolerable. It is indeed class treason in her own chosen and, again 
>>>>> public words.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is because the times are so desperate  and that moral issues are so 
>>>>> profound in desperate times that this issue is so important..
>>>>>
>>>>> And, yes, Faith made a public policy issue very personal to all of us 
>>>>> in word, fact, and deed.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Fred wurtzel" <f.wurtzel at comcast.net>
>>>>> To: "'NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List'" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 10:18 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am a little reluctant to get into this thread.   joe,, though I 
>>>>>> disagree
>>>>>> with Faith regarding her comments, I feel it is just what our enemies 
>>>>>> want,
>>>>>> that is, to fight with each other and sew emnity among us when we 
>>>>>> need to
>>>>>> focus on the real issues of lack of direction and leadership from top 
>>>>>> MCB
>>>>>> management.  It appears that Faith is falling into this same trap. 
>>>>>> When
>>>>>> clients are called back, have their cases opened in a timely manner, 
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> show up in Kalamazoo at the Center without having ever met a MCB 
>>>>>> client,
>>>>>> blind people are not fired and bullied and intimidated for their 
>>>>>> desire to
>>>>>> make things better  and we have 250-300 placements on a regular 
>>>>>> basis, then
>>>>>> we will know that things are improving at MCB.  No matter what anyone 
>>>>>> says
>>>>>> about our motives, these are facts and cannot be denied.  It cannot 
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> denied who is the top manager and who is in a position to change 
>>>>>> these
>>>>>> dismal facts.  We need not beat up on one another or compare who is 
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> trampled on when, in fact, when 1 blind person is trampled on, all of 
>>>>>> us are
>>>>>> trampled on, even those who feel privileged and somehow above the 
>>>>>> fray.
>>>>>> Faith has a record to stand on and we all do to.  None of us need 
>>>>>> feel
>>>>>> superior or better because some of us have been blessed with 
>>>>>> opportunity
>>>>>> while others have been held back.  Except for the Grace of God, there 
>>>>>> go I.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> warmest Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fred
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On Behalf Of joe harcz Comcast
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 7:37 PM
>>>>>> To: NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Meadows isn't living poor. Her salary and credentials are a part of 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> public record as again is her nominal code of ethics.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Listen one and all I've been easy on Faith as I've been on many 
>>>>>> others. But
>>>>>> this is corructed bullshit in a word.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This garbage is again beyond her code of ethics ethicllly speaking 
>>>>>> and her
>>>>>> own given premise in the field.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh, yes when people make sixty thousand per year plus at the public 
>>>>>> teet
>>>>>> then they must be held accountable to their own proprofessionaland 
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> standards for sure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I used to feel a bit sorry for the likes of Faith Meadows. I don't at 
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> nowadays for she is a traitor and a direct hypocrite as to her words 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> actions as if she would ever have a job in the private sector?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I ddidn't wish for this to devolve into a blind upon blind campaign, 
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> dangnit it has and I didn't shoot the first shot across the bow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This professional, so-called counselior who makes more than sixty 
>>>>>> thousand
>>>>>> per year at the public teet has the unmitigated temerity to slander 
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> entire clas for its so-called lack of responsability whilst she and 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> entire agency in documented fashion has sucked not only at our very 
>>>>>> blood,
>>>>>> but also violated the very laws that give this crank her paycheck?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Listen, one and all she slanderrred and attacked me personally in her
>>>>>> innuendo and conjecture while again she suck up federal/state 
>>>>>> taxpayer
>>>>>> dollars. Now, I'll remin all I'm not a hypocrite. I am decidedly left 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> center. Yet for all of my own career, with the exception of three 
>>>>>> years in
>>>>>> the mid-seventies wilst working for the Genesesse count ISD as a 
>>>>>> para-aide
>>>>>> at below union wages until I founded a union in fact I've always 
>>>>>> worked for
>>>>>> the private sector.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How ironic is that eh?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will no longer work for sellouts, incompetents and discriminatory 
>>>>>> actors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just won't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>>>>>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 6:24 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Christy, What I'm mostly responding to is that this person whom I 
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> well, can attack us and think we are just complaining to do so.  I 
>>>>>>> got
>>>>>>> involved with the NFB because I'm job hunting and am not getting 
>>>>>>> anywhere!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This isn't the first time that MS. Meadows has let loose like this. 
>>>>>>> She
>>>>>>> certainly has a right to her oppinion but sence she works in the 
>>>>>>> rehab
>>>>>>> field she should be supporting us in our efforts.  Beeing a person 
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> would LOVE!!!  to have a job and is doing everything possible to 
>>>>>>> obtain
>>>>>>> that goal. Well, I guess I am getting tired of being stereotyped as
>>>>>>> someone who would rather live of the government than contribute to 
>>>>>>> it!
>>>>>>> MS. Meadows also claims or was a member of our organization as well.
>>>>>>> Finally, she has become one of those folks who are doing alright and 
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> least seem to have most of what we want.  This is a good thin unless 
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> do what she has done and judge those of us who are trying and 
>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>> nowhere!  I, like Mr. Harcz, do believe that They are doing the best 
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> can down in Kalamazoo but some folks are not doing the jobs they 
>>>>>>> have well
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and in fact are not giving deserving blind folks as good a service 
>>>>>>> as they
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> can.  Most of the counsellors are well intentioned.  But training of
>>>>>>> counsellors and clients does need to improve!  I'm very happy that 
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> don't really need the services but some folks do and that's what we 
>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>> to improve!
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>> From: <christywitte at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 5:57 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    I can definitely see why some people are frustrated and even 
>>>>>>>> angry.
>>>>>>>> However, last time I checked, our job is not to judge others our 
>>>>>>>> spout
>>>>>>>> off. If people could use that energy they feel to accomplish a 
>>>>>>>> goal, like
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> getting a job it would be great. I'm not responding specifically to
>>>>>>>> anyone on the list. I know that sometimes there are misconceptions 
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>> the commission and what it does and what it does not do. Try to 
>>>>>>>> turn your
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> tragedies to triumphs. Also, blindness is just one adjective to 
>>>>>>>> describe
>>>>>>>> us; beyond that, we come from all walks of life and so we have many
>>>>>>>> experiences and abilities.  Sometimes, we have to take things in 
>>>>>>>> our own
>>>>>>>> hands. If we do not believe in our own abilities, how do we expect 
>>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to believe in our abilities. We all must forge ahead to achieve 
>>>>>>>> success;
>>>>>>>> means something to everybody. Some of us are very young or very 
>>>>>>>> old, may
>>>>>>>> have other disabilities, difficult lives, varying levels of skills. 
>>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>>> are all given a different lot in life but we need to work within 
>>>>>>>> our own
>>>>>>>> parameters to get things done. The commission can be lacking, this 
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> true, but blaming an organization, which is composed of many 
>>>>>>>> people,
>>>>>>>> doesn't get us a paycheck or whatever we feel we want and need
>>>>>>>> individually and as a group. We must forge together and stand 
>>>>>>>> together to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> win our battles. By the way, I've never gotten assistance from 
>>>>>>>> anybody. I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> think about what I would do in their shoes; I also consider how 
>>>>>>>> much I
>>>>>>>> would want to help or assist someone who has attacked me. I am not 
>>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to offend others nor am I condoning people who don't get the job 
>>>>>>>> done.
>>>>>>>> I've also observed that many people in my generation may not fully
>>>>>>>> comprehend their own role in finding employment or understand what 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> job is going to involve. You have ask yourself: do I have the 
>>>>>>>> skills
>>>>>>>> necessary for this job and if I want this job, or one similar to 
>>>>>>>> it, how
>>>>>>>> am I going to personally acquire the skills that are lacking. Many 
>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>> people in my age group are unemployed, and many of those aren't 
>>>>>>>> hitting
>>>>>>>> the pavement every day looking for enjoyable employment. I'm not 
>>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>>> about the reasons. They may feel overwhelmed by the process; they 
>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>> feel like they are not equipped with the tools necessary to perform 
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> job. It is kind of like climbing a mountain. You have to locate and 
>>>>>>>> climb
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to the higher level.
>>>>>>>> Sorry about the length.
>>>>>>>> Christy
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 11:09 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also, I'm concerned about her and others who think our commission 
>>>>>>>>> board
>>>>>>>>> is to aggressive!  Does this mean it didn't do much before?  I 
>>>>>>>>> thaught
>>>>>>>>> our board was supposed to actually do something!  Just being the 
>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>>> man in the street, and correct me if I'm wrong at least 2 of the
>>>>>>>>> commissioners had very good jobs.  I don't really know Lydia but 
>>>>>>>>> if she
>>>>>>>>> doesn't have one she would deffinetly have experience enough for 
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> board.  Both of the commissioners who quit had good jobs but 
>>>>>>>>> decided to
>>>>>>>>> quit anyway because they were out numbered and in my humble 
>>>>>>>>> oppinion
>>>>>>>>> didn't really have enough interest in making things better for the 
>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> population as a whole.  It seems to me that when some blind folks 
>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>> lucky and get good jobs they forget that most of us are still 
>>>>>>>>> struggling
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> for the security and respect they think they have earned!  I am 
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> slamming everyone that has gotten jobs iether but people like 
>>>>>>>>> Faith and
>>>>>>>>> Donna Rose must feel secure in ther jobs so they find us 
>>>>>>>>> especially the
>>>>>>>>> NFB tiresome because we still have to scratch and claw for every 
>>>>>>>>> single
>>>>>>>>> rite we gett!  If joblessness and respect were not issues then we
>>>>>>>>> wouldn't have to be aggressive about themm!  But we should always 
>>>>>>>>> insist
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> on fair play!  At least the current board wants to do things right 
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> abov board!
>>>>>>>>> Intelligence is always claimed but rarely proven!
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nfbmi-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nfbmi-talk:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org/christywitte%40sbcgl
>>>>>> obal.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> t
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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