[nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter

joe harcz Comcast joeharcz at comcast.net
Mon Sep 26 15:12:02 UTC 2011


Again this is a public forum. Where  are your "guts" sir?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "fred olver" <goodfolks at charter.net>
To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter


> You can call it what you want, Joe, but if you haven't the guts to back up 
> what you say by putting it in a public forum where it could be acted upon 
> then the facts speak for themselves.
>
> Fred Olver
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "joe harcz Comcast" <joeharcz at comcast.net>
> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 8:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>
>
>> This is blaming the victims of perfidy for the very perfidy documented 
>> over and over again Msir.
>>
>> This isn't any longer a matter of simple opinion.
>>
>>
>> But you now strike out at the likes of me for "whistle blowing" and then 
>> blame me for the fact that corrupted powers are still in power?
>>
>> How does this make even one iota of sense, even common sense?
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "fred olver" <goodfolks at charter.net>
>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 9:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>
>>
>>> Joe, I will not comment on Faith Meadows, however if your overall 
>>> dispute is with the leadership of MCB, that being Pat Cannon and you 
>>> believe and can substantiate his improprieties as director of MCB then 
>>> you as a citizen have an obligation to seek his removal as director. If 
>>> you do not then the responsibility for his remaining in office falls on 
>>> your head for ignoring the illegalities which he as director has 
>>> perpetrated on the citizens of Michigan who are blind. Your words are 
>>> like arrows, to me. You can, at will seem to use them for good or you 
>>> can choose to use them for evil, at best, though, at this point I'm 
>>> beginning to think they are just words and I haven't seen anything to 
>>> point up the fact that you think Pat Cannon is a bad director. I hear 
>>> lots of words and some small actions to get the MCB to provide you with 
>>> specific materials, but I don't see you causing or ensighting change in 
>>> policy. Again, I would state, if you think Mr. Cannon is not good for 
>>> the commission than find the ammunition to remove him from office. This 
>>> talk about people wetting on the heads of others etc. becomes very old 
>>> after a while. In other words, Joe, and I regret to feel a need to say 
>>> this, put your money where your mouth is. Get him out, or take the 
>>> necessary steps to rid the commission of him and do it well, so no one 
>>> has any cause for regret. If his work, ethics, decisions are so bad, and 
>>> you can prove that he has violated the law and the edicts put forth with 
>>> regard to rehabilitation of blind folks by Congress then show us, and 
>>> everyone else where he has gone wrong.
>>>
>>> Use your words for the good of one and all, not to create devisiveness 
>>> and anger. Nothing you say on this list is going to make a difference to 
>>> Pat Cannon or anyone else who works for MCB, however if you put your 
>>> words to use in a public forum and create a series of debating points 
>>> and an avenue for change then you have done your best. I dare you.
>>>
>>> Fred Olver
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "joe harcz Comcast" <joeharcz at comcast.net>
>>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 7:35 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Fred,
>>>>
>>>> While I substantially agree I'm compelled to point out that Faith acted 
>>>> publicly and in her public capacity.
>>>>
>>>> She did after all pen official board correspondence. If these were 
>>>> simple words between a debating society or even amongst friendly 
>>>> comrades over an adult beverage or two it wouldn't amount to much and, 
>>>> I'd agree with you. But, that isn't the case here.
>>>>
>>>> This said, I've got no other axe to grind with Faith per se. And in 
>>>> fact have ironically stood for her in the past.
>>>>
>>>> The real issue as you and I and all know is that Pat Cannon fueled this 
>>>> dog fight for his own Machiavellian purposes.
>>>>
>>>> That is the core to his "patronage" game.
>>>>
>>>> It is all about jobs after all. And those jobs aren't based upon merit, 
>>>> but rather, allegiance and fealty to a petty dictator.
>>>>
>>>> The evil of it all is that our times in general are as desperate to a 
>>>> degree as they've ever been for we in America are indeed in a Great 
>>>> Recession. times are tough for anyone out there especially in Michigan 
>>>> and times certainly are tougher for people with any disability let 
>>>> alone those who are blind.
>>>>
>>>> Except for the fact that many have the rightful social safety net of 
>>>> social security the bulk of us would be living on some localized public 
>>>> assistance or begging literally in the streets of America. Those are 
>>>> indeed factual statements.
>>>>
>>>> This is why the words of this professional, paid for at again the 
>>>> public teet is so hypocritical; so ironic; and indeed, so dangerous.
>>>>
>>>> The fact that Faith is blind, and I think generally competent makes 
>>>> this all the more insidious.
>>>>
>>>> This is an extreme moral issue in my mind.
>>>>
>>>> It is not unlike the fact that many Jews in Nazi Germany sold out their 
>>>> brethren to save their own skins during those troubled times.
>>>>
>>>> I understand why those folks did what they did. But we must call gross 
>>>> immorality even under duress what it is.
>>>>
>>>> And, of course as in that moral illustration we must go to the root 
>>>> cause of it all.
>>>>
>>>> I'm pretty well convinced that under better leadership, for example 
>>>> that Faith might well be a positive force for good and positive change. 
>>>> I won't dispute that for a moment.
>>>>
>>>> But, that supports my fundamental premise pointing out  the elephant in 
>>>> the room. For until Dictator Cannon is gone then nothing will change 
>>>> positively for the blind of Michigan. And, btw things are going to be 
>>>> tough enough with the way things are in the over all economy.
>>>>
>>>> In these troubled times the activities of publicofficials or those 
>>>> acting in public capacity that are corrupted give fodder to those who 
>>>> wish to eliminate programs altogether.
>>>>
>>>> That, Fred is why the actions of Faith are so perfidious.
>>>>
>>>> Finally, while I'm sensitive again to a degree I'm not going to weep 
>>>> and moan for someone making $60,000 plus while the bulk of the blind 
>>>> are unemployed. I certainly won't weep for such an individual when she 
>>>> denigrates en masse those very people she is charged and paid for to 
>>>> serve. She publicly urinated upon the heads of all blind people 
>>>> regardless as to race, color, creed, or affiliation. That is 
>>>> intolerable. It is indeed class treason in her own chosen and, again 
>>>> public words.
>>>>
>>>> It is because the times are so desperate  and that moral issues are so 
>>>> profound in desperate times that this issue is so important..
>>>>
>>>> And, yes, Faith made a public policy issue very personal to all of us 
>>>> in word, fact, and deed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Fred wurtzel" <f.wurtzel at comcast.net>
>>>> To: "'NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List'" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 10:18 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am a little reluctant to get into this thread.   joe,, though I 
>>>>> disagree
>>>>> with Faith regarding her comments, I feel it is just what our enemies 
>>>>> want,
>>>>> that is, to fight with each other and sew emnity among us when we need 
>>>>> to
>>>>> focus on the real issues of lack of direction and leadership from top 
>>>>> MCB
>>>>> management.  It appears that Faith is falling into this same trap. 
>>>>> When
>>>>> clients are called back, have their cases opened in a timely manner, 
>>>>> don't
>>>>> show up in Kalamazoo at the Center without having ever met a MCB 
>>>>> client,
>>>>> blind people are not fired and bullied and intimidated for their 
>>>>> desire to
>>>>> make things better  and we have 250-300 placements on a regular basis, 
>>>>> then
>>>>> we will know that things are improving at MCB.  No matter what anyone 
>>>>> says
>>>>> about our motives, these are facts and cannot be denied.  It cannot be
>>>>> denied who is the top manager and who is in a position to change these
>>>>> dismal facts.  We need not beat up on one another or compare who is 
>>>>> more
>>>>> trampled on when, in fact, when 1 blind person is trampled on, all of 
>>>>> us are
>>>>> trampled on, even those who feel privileged and somehow above the 
>>>>> fray.
>>>>> Faith has a record to stand on and we all do to.  None of us need feel
>>>>> superior or better because some of us have been blessed with 
>>>>> opportunity
>>>>> while others have been held back.  Except for the Grace of God, there 
>>>>> go I.
>>>>>
>>>>> warmest Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Fred
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>> [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On Behalf Of joe harcz Comcast
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 7:37 PM
>>>>> To: NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>>
>>>>> Meadows isn't living poor. Her salary and credentials are a part of 
>>>>> the
>>>>> public record as again is her nominal code of ethics.
>>>>>
>>>>> Listen one and all I've been easy on Faith as I've been on many 
>>>>> others. But
>>>>> this is corructed bullshit in a word.
>>>>>
>>>>> This garbage is again beyond her code of ethics ethicllly speaking and 
>>>>> her
>>>>> own given premise in the field.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, yes when people make sixty thousand per year plus at the public 
>>>>> teet
>>>>> then they must be held accountable to their own proprofessionaland 
>>>>> other
>>>>> standards for sure.
>>>>>
>>>>> I used to feel a bit sorry for the likes of Faith Meadows. I don't at 
>>>>> all
>>>>> nowadays for she is a traitor and a direct hypocrite as to her words 
>>>>> and
>>>>> actions as if she would ever have a job in the private sector?
>>>>>
>>>>> I ddidn't wish for this to devolve into a blind upon blind campaign, 
>>>>> but
>>>>> dangnit it has and I didn't shoot the first shot across the bow.
>>>>>
>>>>> This professional, so-called counselior who makes more than sixty 
>>>>> thousand
>>>>> per year at the public teet has the unmitigated temerity to slander an
>>>>> entire clas for its so-called lack of responsability whilst she and 
>>>>> the
>>>>> entire agency in documented fashion has sucked not only at our very 
>>>>> blood,
>>>>> but also violated the very laws that give this crank her paycheck?
>>>>>
>>>>> Listen, one and all she slanderrred and attacked me personally in her
>>>>> innuendo and conjecture while again she suck up federal/state taxpayer
>>>>> dollars. Now, I'll remin all I'm not a hypocrite. I am decidedly left 
>>>>> of
>>>>> center. Yet for all of my own career, with the exception of three 
>>>>> years in
>>>>> the mid-seventies wilst working for the Genesesse count ISD as a 
>>>>> para-aide
>>>>> at below union wages until I founded a union in fact I've always 
>>>>> worked for
>>>>> the private sector.
>>>>>
>>>>> How ironic is that eh?
>>>>>
>>>>> I will no longer work for sellouts, incompetents and discriminatory 
>>>>> actors.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just won't.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>>>>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 6:24 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Christy, What I'm mostly responding to is that this person whom I 
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> well, can attack us and think we are just complaining to do so.  I 
>>>>>> got
>>>>>> involved with the NFB because I'm job hunting and am not getting 
>>>>>> anywhere!
>>>>>
>>>>>> This isn't the first time that MS. Meadows has let loose like this. 
>>>>>> She
>>>>>> certainly has a right to her oppinion but sence she works in the 
>>>>>> rehab
>>>>>> field she should be supporting us in our efforts.  Beeing a person 
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> would LOVE!!!  to have a job and is doing everything possible to 
>>>>>> obtain
>>>>>> that goal. Well, I guess I am getting tired of being stereotyped as
>>>>>> someone who would rather live of the government than contribute to 
>>>>>> it!
>>>>>> MS. Meadows also claims or was a member of our organization as well.
>>>>>> Finally, she has become one of those folks who are doing alright and 
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> least seem to have most of what we want.  This is a good thin unless 
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> do what she has done and judge those of us who are trying and getting
>>>>>> nowhere!  I, like Mr. Harcz, do believe that They are doing the best 
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> can down in Kalamazoo but some folks are not doing the jobs they have 
>>>>>> well
>>>>>
>>>>>> and in fact are not giving deserving blind folks as good a service as 
>>>>>> they
>>>>>
>>>>>> can.  Most of the counsellors are well intentioned.  But training of
>>>>>> counsellors and clients does need to improve!  I'm very happy that 
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> don't really need the services but some folks do and that's what we 
>>>>>> need
>>>>>> to improve!
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: <christywitte at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 5:57 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    I can definitely see why some people are frustrated and even 
>>>>>>> angry.
>>>>>>> However, last time I checked, our job is not to judge others our 
>>>>>>> spout
>>>>>>> off. If people could use that energy they feel to accomplish a goal, 
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>
>>>>>>> getting a job it would be great. I'm not responding specifically to
>>>>>>> anyone on the list. I know that sometimes there are misconceptions 
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> the commission and what it does and what it does not do. Try to turn 
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>
>>>>>>> tragedies to triumphs. Also, blindness is just one adjective to 
>>>>>>> describe
>>>>>>> us; beyond that, we come from all walks of life and so we have many
>>>>>>> experiences and abilities.  Sometimes, we have to take things in our 
>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>> hands. If we do not believe in our own abilities, how do we expect 
>>>>>>> others
>>>>>
>>>>>>> to believe in our abilities. We all must forge ahead to achieve 
>>>>>>> success;
>>>>>>> means something to everybody. Some of us are very young or very old, 
>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>> have other disabilities, difficult lives, varying levels of skills. 
>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>> are all given a different lot in life but we need to work within our 
>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>> parameters to get things done. The commission can be lacking, this 
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> true, but blaming an organization, which is composed of many people,
>>>>>>> doesn't get us a paycheck or whatever we feel we want and need
>>>>>>> individually and as a group. We must forge together and stand 
>>>>>>> together to
>>>>>
>>>>>>> win our battles. By the way, I've never gotten assistance from 
>>>>>>> anybody. I
>>>>>
>>>>>>> think about what I would do in their shoes; I also consider how much 
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> would want to help or assist someone who has attacked me. I am not 
>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>
>>>>>>> to offend others nor am I condoning people who don't get the job 
>>>>>>> done.
>>>>>>> I've also observed that many people in my generation may not fully
>>>>>>> comprehend their own role in finding employment or understand what 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> job is going to involve. You have ask yourself: do I have the skills
>>>>>>> necessary for this job and if I want this job, or one similar to it, 
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> am I going to personally acquire the skills that are lacking. Many 
>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>> people in my age group are unemployed, and many of those aren't 
>>>>>>> hitting
>>>>>>> the pavement every day looking for enjoyable employment. I'm not 
>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>> about the reasons. They may feel overwhelmed by the process; they 
>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>> feel like they are not equipped with the tools necessary to perform 
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> job. It is kind of like climbing a mountain. You have to locate and 
>>>>>>> climb
>>>>>
>>>>>>> to the higher level.
>>>>>>> Sorry about the length.
>>>>>>> Christy
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 11:09 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nfbmi-talk] Faith Meadows Letter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, I'm concerned about her and others who think our commission 
>>>>>>>> board
>>>>>>>> is to aggressive!  Does this mean it didn't do much before?  I 
>>>>>>>> thaught
>>>>>>>> our board was supposed to actually do something!  Just being the 
>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>> man in the street, and correct me if I'm wrong at least 2 of the
>>>>>>>> commissioners had very good jobs.  I don't really know Lydia but if 
>>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>>> doesn't have one she would deffinetly have experience enough for 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> board.  Both of the commissioners who quit had good jobs but 
>>>>>>>> decided to
>>>>>>>> quit anyway because they were out numbered and in my humble 
>>>>>>>> oppinion
>>>>>>>> didn't really have enough interest in making things better for the 
>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> population as a whole.  It seems to me that when some blind folks 
>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>> lucky and get good jobs they forget that most of us are still 
>>>>>>>> struggling
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> for the security and respect they think they have earned!  I am not
>>>>>>>> slamming everyone that has gotten jobs iether but people like Faith 
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> Donna Rose must feel secure in ther jobs so they find us especially 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> NFB tiresome because we still have to scratch and claw for every 
>>>>>>>> single
>>>>>>>> rite we gett!  If joblessness and respect were not issues then we
>>>>>>>> wouldn't have to be aggressive about themm!  But we should always 
>>>>>>>> insist
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> on fair play!  At least the current board wants to do things right 
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> abov board!
>>>>>>>> Intelligence is always claimed but rarely proven!
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nfbmi-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nfbmi-talk:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org/christywitte%40sbcgl
>>>>> obal.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> t
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> et
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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