[nfbmi-talk] Opinions on audible crosswalks?

Sun Aug 25 23:04:32 UTC 2013

When I was at Leader Dogs many years ago, they had a cross-walk signal that 
would vibrate when it was safe to cross the street. I don't know if that 
system was adopted elseware.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "joe harcz Comcast" <joeharcz at comcast.net>
To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Opinions on audible crosswalks?


> Hi Chris, Doug, and All,
>
>
> While all of these perspectives have validity and while I personally 
> oppose the "chirping" ped signals and, by the way they are not compliant 
> with Americans with Disabilities Act Guidelines, I take a strong stance in 
> favor of consumer controlled ped signals that are accessible from a civil 
> rights standpoint. In short they now are the law of the land whenever a 
> conventional ped signal is used, and we the blind have the same right to 
> visually deliverred information to use or ignore as the sighted world has.
>
> It is the same issue now law (since the 2010 Title III regulations) that 
> requires all ATMs at all banks to be accessible to us.
>
> The ADA does not require that peds or ATMs, for that matter are provided, 
> but when they are they must be accessible to all. It is as simple as that.
>
> This does not, however mean that appropriate travel training should not 
> take place, or that blind people, or sighted folks for that matter, don't 
> really solely on a pedestrian signal to know when it is safe to cross any 
> street.
>
> For we all know those crazy sighted drivers out there don't always follow 
> the rules of the road. And we know pedestrians are somehow second class 
> citizens. But, that is another issue for another day.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Christine Boone" <christineboone2 at gmail.com>
> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 11:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Opinions on audible crosswalks?
>
>
>> This message is from Doug Boone with some additions from me:
>>
>> For starters we must ask ourselves: How do you define a complex 
>> intersection? Doug and I have both worked with folks who have received 
>> blindness skill training that they believe is excellent-- most people 
>> really love their travel teacher, because no matter how far he or she has 
>> taken them toward independent travel, they enjoy more freedom after 
>> training than they did before:
>>
>> Some of these good folks have come to us requesting assistance with 
>> intersections that they define as extremely complex-- and we have 
>> discovered that in many cases the intersections are actually simple to 
>> moderate crossings.
>>
>> That said however, both of us have encountered some truly odd 
>> intersections that would benefit from accessible pedestrian signals. 
>> This is often the case when there is an excessive amount of ambient noise 
>> in the surrounding environment, or when the intersection has 3 or more 
>> streets converging- especially when 1 or more of the streets have only 
>> intermittent traffic. When traffic is heavy and consistent, even really 
>> complex, multi-street intersections can be successfully navegated without 
>> accessible pedestrian signals.
>>
>> But no matter how we define a complex intersection, and no matter how 
>> well an individual has trained in blindness travel skills, the accessible 
>> pedestrian signal gives only one part of the equation: when the light 
>> changes from green to red, and whether the walk sign is lighted.  The 
>> signal does not give any indication of what traffic is doing, and whether 
>> or not drivers are obeying the law. Indeed audible pedestrian signals can 
>> create a sense of complacency that lowers the blind persons attention 
>> level so that they are less aware of traffic itself.
>>
>> One positive thing that has happened in recent years is that the noise 
>> produced by the signals themselves has been considerably reduced. The 
>> older louder signals actually created a hazard because they were noisy 
>> enough to mask the sound of traffic almost entirely.
>>
>> So those are our thoughts. It will be good for J.J. to meet with the MDOT 
>> people and to discuss these things...but the ultimate fix is a quality 
>> rehabilitation agency that offers consistent, superior training to its 
>> customers and can consult effectively with MDOT on when and where 
>> accessible signals should be installed.  An agency that is run and 
>> managed by individuals who are not acquainted with the practices and/or 
>> the profession of vocational rehabilitation will not have the ability to 
>> provide anything in the way of meaningful partnership or consultation on 
>> matters concerning individuals who are blind.
>>
>>
>>
>> Boone Christine Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 23, 2013, at 11:33 AM, "J.J. Meddaugh" <jj at bestmidi.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Through talking to some people on Twitter, I've got a meeting set up 
>>> with some MDOT people about accessible pedestrian signals. Their policy 
>>> is that they'll install one if blind pedestrians regularly use that 
>>> intersection.
>>> I'm going to talk about the need for audible signals at complex 
>>> intersections where traffic patterns aren't easily discernable but was 
>>> curious as to your opinions on the matter. I know NFB has shifted 
>>> opinion over time on the issue.
>>> Just to clarify, I'm not claiming to represent NFB of Michigan for this 
>>> meeting,.
>>> Thanks much.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Best regards,
>>> J.J.
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
>
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