[nfbmi-talk] Opinions on audible crosswalks?

[J.J. Meddaugh]

There were several around downtown Indianapolis when I was there for the 
BLAST conference. Some were standard 4-way stops while others were more 
complex. But without the audible pedestrian signals, it would have taken 
me considerably longer to cross the streets since I would have had to 
study traffic patterns for many of them. I simply wouldn't have had the 
time. Conversely, there is a lot of traffic in Chicago and often someone 
else crossing with you anyway. So there is so much traffic and people 
that audible signals have never seemed necessary to me there.


Best regards,
J.J.

On 8/25/2013 7:04 PM, Marcus Simmons wrote:
> When I was at Leader Dogs many years ago, they had a cross-walk signal 
> that would vibrate when it was safe to cross the street. I don't know 
> if that system was adopted elseware.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "joe harcz Comcast" 
> <joeharcz at comcast.net>
> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 8:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Opinions on audible crosswalks?
>
>
>> Hi Chris, Doug, and All,
>>
>>
>> While all of these perspectives have validity and while I personally 
>> oppose the "chirping" ped signals and, by the way they are not 
>> compliant with Americans with Disabilities Act Guidelines, I take a 
>> strong stance in favor of consumer controlled ped signals that are 
>> accessible from a civil rights standpoint. In short they now are the 
>> law of the land whenever a conventional ped signal is used, and we 
>> the blind have the same right to visually deliverred information to 
>> use or ignore as the sighted world has.
>>
>> It is the same issue now law (since the 2010 Title III regulations) 
>> that requires all ATMs at all banks to be accessible to us.
>>
>> The ADA does not require that peds or ATMs, for that matter are 
>> provided, but when they are they must be accessible to all. It is as 
>> simple as that.
>>
>> This does not, however mean that appropriate travel training should 
>> not take place, or that blind people, or sighted folks for that 
>> matter, don't really solely on a pedestrian signal to know when it is 
>> safe to cross any street.
>>
>> For we all know those crazy sighted drivers out there don't always 
>> follow the rules of the road. And we know pedestrians are somehow 
>> second class citizens. But, that is another issue for another day.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christine Boone" 
>> <christineboone2 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: "NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 11:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Opinions on audible crosswalks?
>>
>>
>>> This message is from Doug Boone with some additions from me:
>>>
>>> For starters we must ask ourselves: How do you define a complex 
>>> intersection? Doug and I have both worked with folks who have 
>>> received blindness skill training that they believe is excellent-- 
>>> most people really love their travel teacher, because no matter how 
>>> far he or she has taken them toward independent travel, they enjoy 
>>> more freedom after training than they did before:
>>>
>>> Some of these good folks have come to us requesting assistance with 
>>> intersections that they define as extremely complex-- and we have 
>>> discovered that in many cases the intersections are actually simple 
>>> to moderate crossings.
>>>
>>> That said however, both of us have encountered some truly odd 
>>> intersections that would benefit from accessible pedestrian signals. 
>>> This is often the case when there is an excessive amount of ambient 
>>> noise in the surrounding environment, or when the intersection has 3 
>>> or more streets converging- especially when 1 or more of the streets 
>>> have only intermittent traffic. When traffic is heavy and 
>>> consistent, even really complex, multi-street intersections can be 
>>> successfully navegated without accessible pedestrian signals.
>>>
>>> But no matter how we define a complex intersection, and no matter 
>>> how well an individual has trained in blindness travel skills, the 
>>> accessible pedestrian signal gives only one part of the equation: 
>>> when the light changes from green to red, and whether the walk sign 
>>> is lighted.  The signal does not give any indication of what traffic 
>>> is doing, and whether or not drivers are obeying the law. Indeed 
>>> audible pedestrian signals can create a sense of complacency that 
>>> lowers the blind persons attention level so that they are less aware 
>>> of traffic itself.
>>>
>>> One positive thing that has happened in recent years is that the 
>>> noise produced by the signals themselves has been considerably 
>>> reduced. The older louder signals actually created a hazard because 
>>> they were noisy enough to mask the sound of traffic almost entirely.
>>>
>>> So those are our thoughts. It will be good for J.J. to meet with the 
>>> MDOT people and to discuss these things...but the ultimate fix is a 
>>> quality rehabilitation agency that offers consistent, superior 
>>> training to its customers and can consult effectively with MDOT on 
>>> when and where accessible signals should be installed.  An agency 
>>> that is run and managed by individuals who are not acquainted with 
>>> the practices and/or the profession of vocational rehabilitation 
>>> will not have the ability to provide anything in the way of 
>>> meaningful partnership or consultation on matters concerning 
>>> individuals who are blind.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Boone Christine Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Aug 23, 2013, at 11:33 AM, "J.J. Meddaugh" <jj at bestmidi.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Through talking to some people on Twitter, I've got a meeting set 
>>>> up with some MDOT people about accessible pedestrian signals. Their 
>>>> policy is that they'll install one if blind pedestrians regularly 
>>>> use that intersection.
>>>> I'm going to talk about the need for audible signals at complex 
>>>> intersections where traffic patterns aren't easily discernable but 
>>>> was curious as to your opinions on the matter. I know NFB has 
>>>> shifted opinion over time on the issue.
>>>> Just to clarify, I'm not claiming to represent NFB of Michigan for 
>>>> this meeting,.
>>>> Thanks much.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> J.J.
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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