[nfbmi-talk] Opinions on audible crosswalks?

Mon Aug 26 00:54:04 UTC 2013

Hi,

To my knowledge, no.  The last time I was walking there, there were no
buttons that I was aware of.  Finding them if you don't know they exist is
another problem.  I haven't crossed there for many years, so things may have
changed.  I will ask.  Joe Sontag lives near the Waverly and Saginaw
intersection, maybe he knows.

Warm Regards,

Fred

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbmi-talk [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of J.J.
Meddaugh
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 8:43 PM
To: NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Opinions on audible crosswalks?

Do these corners have a button for pedestrian crossings? Some crossings
which are unsafe for us are just bad for any pedestrian in general.
Luckily there's a movement toward improving these.

Best regards,
J.J.

On 8/24/2013 7:51 PM, Fred Wurtzel wrote:
> Hi Jim,
>
> No, it is worse.  Elmwood and Saginaw is likewise pretty treacherous.  
> These have those continuous right and left turn lanes.
>
> Warm Regards,
>
> Fred
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbmi-talk [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
> Jim in Detroit
> Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 4:53 AM
> To: NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List
> Cc: NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Opinions on audible crosswalks?
>
> Boy, take me back 40 years; I'd love to learn to handle Waverley and 
> Saginaw; I wonder if that has improved over the years?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christine Boone
> Sent: August 23, 2013 23:26
> To: NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List
> Cc: NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Opinions on audible crosswalks?
>
> This message is from Doug Boone with some additions from me:
>
> For starters we must ask ourselves: How do you define a complex 
> intersection? Doug and I have both worked with folks who have received 
> blindness skill training that they believe is excellent-- most people 
> really love their travel teacher, because no matter how far he or she 
> has taken them toward independent travel, they enjoy more freedom 
> after training than they did before:
>
> Some of these good folks have come to us requesting assistance with 
> intersections that they define as extremely complex-- and we have 
> discovered that in many cases the intersections are actually simple to 
> moderate crossings.
>
> That said however, both of us have encountered some truly odd 
> intersections that would benefit from accessible pedestrian signals.  
> This is often the case when there is an excessive amount of ambient 
> noise in the surrounding environment, or when the intersection has 3 
> or more streets converging- especially when 1 or more of the streets have
only intermittent traffic.
> When traffic is heavy and consistent, even really complex, 
> multi-street intersections can be successfully navegated without 
> accessible pedestrian signals.
>
> But no matter how we define a complex intersection, and no matter how 
> well an individual has trained in blindness travel skills, the 
> accessible pedestrian signal gives only one part of the equation: when 
> the light changes from green to red, and whether the walk sign is 
> lighted.  The signal does not give any indication of what traffic is 
> doing, and whether or not drivers are obeying the law. Indeed audible 
> pedestrian signals can create a sense of complacency that lowers the 
> blind persons attention level so that they are less aware of traffic
itself.
>
> One positive thing that has happened in recent years is that the noise 
> produced by the signals themselves has been considerably reduced. The 
> older louder signals actually created a hazard because they were noisy 
> enough to mask the sound of traffic almost entirely.
>
> So those are our thoughts. It will be good for J.J. to meet with the 
> MDOT people and to discuss these things...but the ultimate fix is a 
> quality rehabilitation agency that offers consistent, superior 
> training to its customers and can consult effectively with MDOT on 
> when and where accessible signals should be installed.  An agency that 
> is run and managed by individuals who are not acquainted with the 
> practices and/or the profession of vocational rehabilitation will not 
> have the ability to provide anything in the way of meaningful 
> partnership or consultation on matters concerning individuals who are
blind.
>
>
>
> Boone Christine Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 23, 2013, at 11:33 AM, "J.J. Meddaugh" <jj at bestmidi.com> wrote:
>
>> Through talking to some people on Twitter, I've got a meeting set up 
>> with some MDOT people about accessible pedestrian signals. Their 
>> policy is that they'll install one if blind pedestrians regularly use 
>> that
> intersection.
>> I'm going to talk about the need for audible signals at complex 
>> intersections where traffic patterns aren't easily discernable but 
>> was curious as to your opinions on the matter. I know NFB has shifted 
>> opinion over time on the issue.
>> Just to clarify, I'm not claiming to represent NFB of Michigan for 
>> this meeting,.
>> Thanks much.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> J.J.
>>
>>
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>
> Jim in Detroit
> James A. Prather
> Central Michigan University: 1980
> Michigan School for the Blind: 1974
> "Fire Up Chips"
> "Ungh, ungowa, Raiders still Got the Power!"
>
>
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