[nfbmi-talk] Opinions on audible crosswalks?

Fri Sep 6 01:42:19 UTC 2013

I believe that would be state juristiction because Saginaw is also M43 
correct?
Let me know if you'd like me to find a contact in Lansing.
Thanks.

Best regards,
J.J.

On 8/25/2013 8:54 PM, Fred Wurtzel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> To my knowledge, no.  The last time I was walking there, there were no
> buttons that I was aware of.  Finding them if you don't know they exist is
> another problem.  I haven't crossed there for many years, so things may have
> changed.  I will ask.  Joe Sontag lives near the Waverly and Saginaw
> intersection, maybe he knows.
>
> Warm Regards,
>
> Fred
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbmi-talk [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of J.J.
> Meddaugh
> Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 8:43 PM
> To: NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Opinions on audible crosswalks?
>
> Do these corners have a button for pedestrian crossings? Some crossings
> which are unsafe for us are just bad for any pedestrian in general.
> Luckily there's a movement toward improving these.
>
> Best regards,
> J.J.
>
> On 8/24/2013 7:51 PM, Fred Wurtzel wrote:
>> Hi Jim,
>>
>> No, it is worse.  Elmwood and Saginaw is likewise pretty treacherous.
>> These have those continuous right and left turn lanes.
>>
>> Warm Regards,
>>
>> Fred
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbmi-talk [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Jim in Detroit
>> Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 4:53 AM
>> To: NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List
>> Cc: NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Opinions on audible crosswalks?
>>
>> Boy, take me back 40 years; I'd love to learn to handle Waverley and
>> Saginaw; I wonder if that has improved over the years?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Christine Boone
>> Sent: August 23, 2013 23:26
>> To: NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List
>> Cc: NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Opinions on audible crosswalks?
>>
>> This message is from Doug Boone with some additions from me:
>>
>> For starters we must ask ourselves: How do you define a complex
>> intersection? Doug and I have both worked with folks who have received
>> blindness skill training that they believe is excellent-- most people
>> really love their travel teacher, because no matter how far he or she
>> has taken them toward independent travel, they enjoy more freedom
>> after training than they did before:
>>
>> Some of these good folks have come to us requesting assistance with
>> intersections that they define as extremely complex-- and we have
>> discovered that in many cases the intersections are actually simple to
>> moderate crossings.
>>
>> That said however, both of us have encountered some truly odd
>> intersections that would benefit from accessible pedestrian signals.
>> This is often the case when there is an excessive amount of ambient
>> noise in the surrounding environment, or when the intersection has 3
>> or more streets converging- especially when 1 or more of the streets have
> only intermittent traffic.
>> When traffic is heavy and consistent, even really complex,
>> multi-street intersections can be successfully navegated without
>> accessible pedestrian signals.
>>
>> But no matter how we define a complex intersection, and no matter how
>> well an individual has trained in blindness travel skills, the
>> accessible pedestrian signal gives only one part of the equation: when
>> the light changes from green to red, and whether the walk sign is
>> lighted.  The signal does not give any indication of what traffic is
>> doing, and whether or not drivers are obeying the law. Indeed audible
>> pedestrian signals can create a sense of complacency that lowers the
>> blind persons attention level so that they are less aware of traffic
> itself.
>> One positive thing that has happened in recent years is that the noise
>> produced by the signals themselves has been considerably reduced. The
>> older louder signals actually created a hazard because they were noisy
>> enough to mask the sound of traffic almost entirely.
>>
>> So those are our thoughts. It will be good for J.J. to meet with the
>> MDOT people and to discuss these things...but the ultimate fix is a
>> quality rehabilitation agency that offers consistent, superior
>> training to its customers and can consult effectively with MDOT on
>> when and where accessible signals should be installed.  An agency that
>> is run and managed by individuals who are not acquainted with the
>> practices and/or the profession of vocational rehabilitation will not
>> have the ability to provide anything in the way of meaningful
>> partnership or consultation on matters concerning individuals who are
> blind.
>>
>>
>> Boone Christine Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 23, 2013, at 11:33 AM, "J.J. Meddaugh" <jj at bestmidi.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Through talking to some people on Twitter, I've got a meeting set up
>>> with some MDOT people about accessible pedestrian signals. Their
>>> policy is that they'll install one if blind pedestrians regularly use
>>> that
>> intersection.
>>> I'm going to talk about the need for audible signals at complex
>>> intersections where traffic patterns aren't easily discernable but
>>> was curious as to your opinions on the matter. I know NFB has shifted
>>> opinion over time on the issue.
>>> Just to clarify, I'm not claiming to represent NFB of Michigan for
>>> this meeting,.
>>> Thanks much.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>> J.J.
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> Jim in Detroit
>> James A. Prather
>> Central Michigan University: 1980
>> Michigan School for the Blind: 1974
>> "Fire Up Chips"
>> "Ungh, ungowa, Raiders still Got the Power!"
>>
>>
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