[nfbmi-talk] Fw: Bill Moyer: The Long, Dark Shadow That Plutocracy Casts on American Society

[joe harcz Comcast]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "joe harcz Comcast" <joeharcz at comcast.net>
To: "Blind Democracy Discussion List" <blind-democracy at octothorp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: Bill Moyer: The Long, Dark Shadow That Plutocracy Casts on 
American Society


> Ok now this is silly, mind you, very silly.
>
> And I'm not acb or nfb or anything per se, except I think well blind folks 
> are the focus and not the agencies or the hacks of any sort whether acb or 
> nfb or visa versa and that goes to class and that goes to whatever and 
> that goes to we against them and all of that and you all knowwhat?
>
> There are scoundrels in both ACB and NFB and they all suck big time!
>
> I'm sick to death of the both of them, present company excepted.National 
> Federation of the Blind of Michigan
> 7189 Connors Rd.
> Munising, MI 49862
>
> November 18,
>
> 2014
>
> Dear Joe:
>
>     I am sending this to you privately, off the email list. If you
> wish to share it on list, then I know you are seeking controversy. In
> the past couple of weeks, I had the Michigan Governmental Affairs list
> created for governmental information such as Freedom of Information
> Requests and other Agency information. In the past day or two, you
> have put this information on the NFBMI-Talk list. Please stop doing
> this immediately! It is fine to put meeting announcements on the
> NFBMI-Talk list, but other Governmental and agency information should
> go on the Governmental Affairs list. I am getting the information from
> the Governmental Affairs list and reading it. If you do not stop
> placing Agency and Governmental information on the General list, I
> will have you removed from both lists. I have been a strong advocate
> for you but I will not hesitate to remove you from both lists if you
> insist on placing Governmental information on the general list. I will
> do what I must to insure that this conflict does not continue
> including discussing this with the Board and getting enough votes to
> have you removed from both lists. This is not what I want to do, but I
> will do what is necessary to end this conflict.
>
> Sincerely,
> Larry Posont
> President
> National Federation of the Blind of Michigan
> (906) 387-3546
> Email:
> president.nfb.mi at gmail.com
> Web page:
> www.nfbmi.org
>
> Munising home of the beautiful Pictured Rocks.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Carl Jarvis" <carjar82 at gmail.com>
> To: "Blind Democracy Discussion List" <blind-democracy at octothorp.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 9:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Bill Moyer: The Long, Dark Shadow That Plutocracy Casts on 
> American Society
>
>
>> Miriam, you said, "...if we're going
>> to look at the reality of life in America today, it's necessary to see it
>> realistically without allowing our political philosophies and rhetoric to
>> get in the way".
>>
>> Actually, I don't see how I can do that.  I will say that I feel I'm
>> able to see America realistically.   I understand that my approach to
>> life is in the minority.  But I do understand the attitudes and the
>> social structure and what motivates people.  I live in this world and
>> I am as contaminated by our pseudo  civilization as anyone else.  I
>> spent years trying to catch up to the Jones', much less trying to stay
>> up with them.  I dreamed that all my troubles would be over if I could
>> only strike it rich.  I believed in God, because adults whom I trusted
>> told me He existed.  I believed my America worked in the world to
>> promote peace and democracy.  I believed that if we each worked hard
>> and lived honest lives, God would reward us.  All this and more I
>> learned from the pillars of my community.  They taught me how to feel
>> pity for those less fortunate than I, and especially they taught me
>> how to rationalize that which did not fit into our perfect America.
>> In fact, my life was built on those beliefs and philosophies.
>> I understand that my changing these philosophies and beliefs did not
>> change how most Americans see their world.  While I understand the
>> distinctions people make between Lower, Working, Middle, Upper Middle
>> and Upper Class is real for them, I see it as divisive in keeping the
>> working class people divided against one another.
>> My belief in this matter does not change how most people see it.  I
>> hope that in my ramblings that I don't give the impression that I do
>> not understand how the world works, or how people see themselves.  And
>> I believe that I understand why...mostly.
>> What I do want people to understand is that they...each of us...needs
>> to use our brains and begin questioning what is going on around us,
>> and why.  But if I am sounding as if I'm disconnected with the real
>> world, trust me, I'm very much caught up in it.  Perhaps I'm just
>> becoming a broken record on this list, and need to shut up for a
>> while.  I'd try changing what I write about, but I usually write on
>> those subjects that catch my fancy.  Most of them bring me back to
>> discussing the need to change our basic approach to Life.  Leave this
>> material driven world, and build a new one on the basis of respect and
>> human dignity,  People ahead of Profit.
>> Sigh...I'm starting to run in circles again.
>>
>> Carl Jarvis
>>
>> On 12/3/14, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni at optonline.net> wrote:
>>> The white folks who are truly blue collar and working class people, at
>>> least
>>> the ones with whom I have contact, do feel angry. They do feel cheated.
>>> However, they tend to believe the explanations provided to them by
>>> conservative media figures. The very kind lady who cleans my apartment 
>>> is
>>> originally from Croatia, from a peasant background. She reads books by 
>>> Bill
>>> O'Reilly and she quotes him. "The trouble with this country is it's too
>>> liberal. Obamacare is too Communist. It's the reason that they're 
>>> cutting
>>> medicare to the bone". When I try to explain where Obamacare came from 
>>> and
>>> that it has nothing to do with medicare, her response is, "Well, that's 
>>> my
>>> opinion". So then do I get into a discussion with her about how her 
>>> opinion
>>> is based on misinformation, not facts? I tried a little, but there's no
>>> point. But the right wing propaganda is incredibly strong and it 
>>> permeates
>>> our whole society. The Left is correct that people are angry and that
>>> they're angry because they know they're being short changed. However, 
>>> who
>>> is
>>> going to be capable of changing their consciousness? I think that if the
>>> Progressive Movements wants to be successful, its members need to stop
>>> living in a dream world where they talk to each other about how the 
>>> public
>>> really shares their goals. I think that they need to augment the efforts
>>> already being made with fast food and big box store workers, and find 
>>> ways
>>> of reaching all these conservative blue collar people like the majority 
>>> of
>>> the population that lives on Long Island.
>>>
>>> Miriam
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Blind-Democracy [mailto:blind-democracy-bounces at octothorp.org] On
>>> Behalf Of ted chittenden
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 3:13 PM
>>> To: Blind Democracy Discussion List
>>> Subject: RE: Bill Moyer: The Long, Dark Shadow That Plutocracy Casts on
>>> American Society
>>>
>>> To add to Miriam's point: many people in the upper middle class view
>>> themselves as either having made it or working their way towards earning
>>> more wealth for themselves and their families. They (mostly) view the
>>> so-called 1% as being where they themselves would like to be. These 
>>> people,
>>> by and large, do not empathize with the working and non-working 
>>> poor--they
>>> are too immersed in their own lives to notice them much.
>>>
>>> And they support the current system. As my mom's youngest surviving 
>>> brother
>>> told one of the other family members within my hearing last 
>>> Thanksgiving,
>>> "It's not having all the stuff at the beginning that's good. It's 
>>> working
>>> to
>>> get what you got now that makes what you got now worth it." And that's
>>> really how these people believe. And it really doesn't matter if these
>>> people have been fed a lie by the upper classes--they continue to 
>>> believe
>>> that lie themselves and continue to feed it down to the classes below 
>>> them.
>>> And those who point out the lie are shunned and ridiculed for doing just
>>> that--most members of the upper middle class just don't believe what the
>>> naysayers say to be true!
>>> --
>>> Ted Chittenden
>>>
>>> Every
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Blind-Democracy mailing list
>>> Blind-Democracy at octothorp.org
>>> https://www.octothorp.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-democracy
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blind-Democracy mailing list
>> Blind-Democracy at octothorp.org
>> https://www.octothorp.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-democracy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blind-Democracy mailing list
> Blind-Democracy at octothorp.org
> https://www.octothorp.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-democracy