[nfbmi-talk] Fw: Uber Ridesharing now in Lansing, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Flint
joe harcz Comcast
joeharcz at comcast.net
Sat Jul 26 12:46:35 UTC 2014
J.J. You wrote to me off list as this clearly shows and then you say you
don't wish for an off list conversation or whatever.
Come on sir. What gives?
Are you placing personalities over principles here?
Again I am not theoretically opposed at all to these systems, but want them
accessable to all including guide dog users.
I also don't appreciate the fact that you personally have advocated
supression of freedom of speech rights on this very list.
You can't have things both way sir in a democratic function.
----- Original Message -----
From: "J.J. Meddaugh" <jj at bestmidi.com>
To: "joe harcz Comcast" <joeharcz at comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Uber Ridesharing now in Lansing, Grand Rapids,
Kalamazoo, Flint
> Why didn't you post that reply publicly?
> I'm not interested in a private debate, honestly.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
> J.J.
>
> On 7/25/2014 10:28 PM, joe harcz Comcast wrote:
>> Really J.J. please document in any manner in which these civil rights
>> laws have been followed or even regulated relative to these services let
>> alone to existing ones in our collective experiences.
>>
>> Frankly the ADA is not enforced uniformly throughout this nation as
>> anyone can discern, let alone regulations relatie to organizations like
>> these which is precisely why so many cities from Ann Arbor to Pittsburg
>> and with many others are re-examing these services for the full range of
>> compliance with civil rights laws and including those related to the ADA.
>>
>> I'm not a "knee jerk" type who is opposed to alternatives to the taxi
>> services per se, and never have been so. And I've personally witnessed
>> and complained about abuses by traditional cab services over years and
>> not Johny come lately either over ADA and other violations of law and
>>
>> Now we have an unaccountable set of entities without recourse or say so
>> when even the regulated ones violate right in documented form?
>>
>> Simply I don't trust any entity to not violate our individual or
>> collective civil or human rights until proven differently. If you have
>> proof of this then I'd love for you to submit it to all and this list.
>>
>> I really would.
>> And if these services exceed in demonstrable fashion throughout this
>> nation and in the state of michigan those of regulated cab companies in
>> all regards includcuding accessability then I'll be the first to promote
>> them ...
>>
>> Until then I appreciate William and Fred' s inquiries.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.J. Meddaugh" <jj at bestmidi.com>
>> To: "joe harcz Comcast" <joeharcz at comcast.net>; "NFB of Michigan Internet
>> Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 9:51 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Uber Ridesharing now in Lansing, Grand Rapids,
>> Kalamazoo, Flint
>>
>>
>>> The law is clearly on our side here. Rideshare services are a public
>>> service so the same accomodations need to be provided. If a driver
>>> refuses a passenger because of a guide dog, that driver should be
>>> reported and we should make sure the company follows up and takes care
>>> of the situation.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> J.J.
>>>
>>> On 7/25/2014 6:47 PM, joe harcz Comcast via nfbmi-talk wrote:
>>>> The problem is systemic and prevelent William and Fred. It is called
>>>> discrimination in violation of existing laws, including the Americans
>>>> with disabilities act. Now I have no problem with these new services
>>>> per se. and, indeed they may make a differance as many suggest in new
>>>> opportunities for PWD including the blind. However, as they currently
>>>> exist they are in an unregulated market and compete with those in the
>>>> regulated market of which includes, nominally compliance withthe ADA.
>>>>
>>>> In brief the basics of the ADA and other civil rights laws says, "Thou
>>>> shalt not discriminate against people with disabilities solely because
>>>> of said disabilities." In the guide dog context it is also quite
>>>> simple. The law, not always followed or enforced, for sure says, "Thou
>>>> shalt pick up and otherwise not discriminate against a guide dog
>>>> handler."
>>>>
>>>> We all know of cases where this is violated amonst cab companies. We
>>>> do. But at least they are remedied or can be under state and federal
>>>> laws like the ADA.
>>>>
>>>> The issue with these other systems is that they are untried,
>>>> unregulated and compete in an untested environment that is unequal and
>>>> untested.
>>>>
>>>> In other words it is the "wild west" so far as civil rights is
>>>> considerrred.
>>>>
>>>> And by the way there is no reason or no regulation that one of these
>>>> sorts cannot pick up or deny service to a white cane traveler as well
>>>> as a guide dog user.
>>>>
>>>> Our fundamental civil rights and choice of appropriate to our needs
>>>> mobility devices and other considerations are all at issue here.
>>>>
>>>> The synergy between those of us who choose to use the long, or short
>>>> white cane, for that matter or any devices or means including guide
>>>> dogse
>>>> are intertwined. In other words it isn't a matter of either/or but
>>>> rather, both.
>>>>
>>>> And the rights of one being violated ultimately devolve in to
>>>> violations of the rights of all.
>>>>
>>>> So this is a very important issue for anyone and everyone amongst us
>>>> who consider the rights of those whom are blind.
>>>>
>>>> I for one will stand behind any blind cane user whether or not NFB, ACB
>>>> or any affiliation and his/her right to use this device without
>>>> prejudice just as much as I'll stand behind the rights of guide gog
>>>> users for same.
>>>>
>>>> Again I personally don't care about the affiliation or lack thereof in
>>>> these circumstances for it is not a political party sort of thing in my
>>>> mind anymore than right is right and wrong is wrong when it comes to
>>>> Democrats and Republicans or visa versa if all catch my drift here.
>>>>
>>>> Again as athe great civil rights leader Martin Luther King, Jr. and
>>>> others have said, "An injury to oneamonst us is an injury to all of
>>>> us."
>>>>
>>>> These principles of social and civil justice are in the bones of NFB
>>>> for sure and go back to our founder Jacobus Tenbroek who said and wrote
>>>> that, "We have the right to live in the world."
>>>>
>>>> And colleagues we have those rights in law and equity if not in fact on
>>>> a daily basis if we chose, with all informed consent, to get from here
>>>> to over there, as they all say, using a dog, a flashlight, or a white
>>>> cane or even hypnosis or some other silly stuff.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not digressing here in my fervor, but rather, re-iterating concerns
>>>> by Fred and William and I affirm they are valid.
>>>>
>>>> I chose not to have a dog for a variety of reasons not worthy of this
>>>> list for now.
>>>>
>>>> But I'll fight to the death literally for the right of those to chose
>>>> their form of mobility and more importantly for the rights of all to
>>>> exercise their forms of mobility.
>>>>
>>>> Imagine if you will for one rambling last second here something:
>>>>
>>>> Imaganine that a cab company or uber or lift for that matter passes a
>>>> knwn person who is sighted and denies him/her service just because
>>>> he/she is sighted....Imagine that! Imagine...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Vandervest via nfbmi-talk"
>>>> <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> To: "Fred Wurtzel" <f.wurtzel at att.net>; "NFB of Michigan Internet
>>>> Mailing List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 10:08 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Uber Ridesharing now in Lansing, Grand
>>>> Rapids,Kalamazoo, Flint
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> that problem has been discussed extencively on some of theguide dog
>>>>> lists, and i think we do need a resolution on this matter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There are none so blind as those who will not see
>>>>>
>>>>> William and Leader Dog Lynard
>>>>>
>>>>> timelord09 at att.net
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Wurtzel via nfbmi-talk"
>>>>> <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> To: "'J.J. Meddaugh'" <jj at bestmidi.com>; "'NFB of Michigan Internet
>>>>> Mailing List'" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 8:16 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] Uber Ridesharing now in Lansing, Grand
>>>>> Rapids,Kalamazoo, Flint
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi J,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I, also, like the service. However, I am told by Larry of our
>>>>>> guidedog
>>>>>> division that drivers in Ann Arbor routinely won't allow guidedogs in
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> cars. Do you have any information about this. Is this something we
>>>>>> need a
>>>>>> resolution about at our state convention?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the update.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Warmest Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fred
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nfbmi-talk [mailto:nfbmi-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> J.J.
>>>>>> Meddaugh via nfbmi-talk
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 12:40 AM
>>>>>> To: NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: [nfbmi-talk] Uber Ridesharing now in Lansing, Grand Rapids,
>>>>>> Kalamazoo, Flint
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've talked about Uber, the cool and simple ridesharing service
>>>>>> before, and
>>>>>> now it's in Lansing, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Flint in addition
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> Detroit and Ann Arbor.
>>>>>> For me, Uber is easier than cabs because you know when your vehicle
>>>>>> is on
>>>>>> route and when it is arriving, payment is handled from the app
>>>>>> itself, and
>>>>>> it's just simpler than taxis. You can get 5 free rides for the next
>>>>>> two
>>>>>> weeks in the new Michigan cities by using the code michfree.
>>>>>> First, use the link below to sign up and get another free ride. THis
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> give me a free ride as well.
>>>>>> http://uber.com/invite/6k56q
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then use the michfree code to unlock 5 more free rides for the next
>>>>>> two
>>>>>> weeks.
>>>>>> I hardly ever use cabs now where Uber is available, and this really
>>>>>> helps me
>>>>>> to be more indpendent in lots of areas. More transportation options
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> always better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You need an iPhone, Android, or WIndows Phone to use Uber currently.
>>>>>> I'm happy to help anyone out in getting Uber set up if you need it.
>>>>>> Just
>>>>>> send me an Email.
>>>>>> Enjoy.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> J.J.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nfbmi-talk mailing list
>>>>>> nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nfbmi-talk:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org/f.wurtzel%40att.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nfbmi-talk mailing list
>>>>>> nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nfbmi-talk:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org/timelord09%40att.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nfbmi-talk mailing list
>>>>> nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nfbmi-talk:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org/joeharcz%40comcast.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nfbmi-talk mailing list
>>>> nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nfbmi-talk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmi-talk_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com
>>>
>>
>
More information about the NFBMI-Talk
mailing list