[Nfbmo] What would you do?

Wed Oct 26 19:04:39 UTC 2011

You are being ridiculous! Where do you get your facts?
This trivia night issue has nothing to do with god, or opinions of the 
blind.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?


>I wasn't going to reply to this, but I have to say this
> its been my experience that churches and church groups do this, they do 
> not want anyone with a disability around, they just want to tell us that 
> if we pray harder we will have are sight back, and that we are evil, that 
> is why we are blind.
> They say that 95% of us don't go to church, I don't know if the numbers 
> are that high, but this is why.
> Most people that go to church and call them selves Christians are 
> judgmental like that.
> I'm not saying don't go to church, nor am I trying to get a lintch mob 
> after me, I'm just saying that is what I've noticed, that is why I never 
> go, every church I have seen do not want blind people around.
> I'm not saying that is the case here, but it could be
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "MATTHEW SIEVERT" <msievert at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>
>
> Group,
>
> I hope you are all well.
>
> What I have observed is that many times people will want to "rebel" 
> instead of
> remedy a situation through other means.
>
> Equality for all will not take place over a period of one year or even ten
> years, but you can lay the foundation that other's can build upon.
>
> Representing a group in a negative light will not win over supporters. It 
> will
> bring attention to the issue, but you want people understand, not simply 
> notice
> through a negative act.
>
> Some day we will have a blind/visually impaired astronaut. Until that time 
> we as
> the NFB should do what we can to build upon our organization's 
> achievements and
> represent our disabled community in a positive light.
>
>
> Equality at trivia night's should be obtained, but like all challenges, it 
> will
> take time and a calm intellect.
>
> Matt Sievert
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: fred olver <goodfolks at charter.net>
> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wed, October 26, 2011 7:41:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>
> Gary,
>
> I have read your comments several times and perhapse even lost some sleep
> over what I consider to be an afrontery to me and others who might wish to
> participate in an activity alongside individuals who are not limited in
> their vision.
>
> Let me say first of all that a year ago I confronted this situation and
> explained to the individuals in charge that I felt wronged because half of
> the questions were undeciferable by myself. Okay, they didn't know I was
> going to be there. This year, however nearly a third of the questions were
> again undeciferable by a blind person. It is my feeling that if the folks 
> in
> charge know that individuals will be participating who are unable to
> participate in a significant number of questions related to the activity
> that they not allow those questions. To me, the reasons ought to be very
> obvious. If you alienate a significant number of individuals you won't get
> them to come back next year. If you knowingly allow questions to be a part
> of an activity which you know will exclude individuals from participating
> then you are wrong to include them. If for example I only provide agenda's
> in Braille to individuals who don't read Braille then I am wrong to do so,
> because I have ignored their needs.
>
> Bottom line, I'm feeling ignored. Next year, I think I'll find seven other
> individuals who can not make use of visual questions and attend the same
> fundraiser and practice a bit of civil disobedience.
>
>
> Fred Olver
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Gary Wunder" <GWunder at earthlink.net>
> To: "'NFB of Missouri Mailing List'" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 5:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>
>
>> Hi Fred and the folks who have commented here. Please allow me to
>> interject
>> another perspective. I find this troublesome philosophically. When I can
>> have access and am denied it because someone doesn't want to go to the
>> trouble of making their software accessible, I'm up in arms. When they 
>> use
>> artificial barriers such as possessing a driver's license when what they
>> mean is that an employee has to get around, I'm bothered. When they say I
>> have to be able to visually read print to take a job and I have a machine
>> to
>> do it, I'm outraged.
>>
>> How is the issue changed when we know of no way to make a process 100
>> percent accessible? I don't want to deprive anyone of the beauty found in
>> paintings or photography simply because I can't observe them. I 
>> understand
>> there are some cartoons that are so torturous to explain that by the time
>> one finishes putting them into words, they are no longer funny.
>>
>> Mental challenges may be audible, visual, or they might even involve 
>> other
>> senses such as taste or smell. If we look hard enough, we'll find people
>> who
>> have problems with one or more of these. So, in the areas where we don't
>> have true alternatives, should our request be that the thing we cannot do
>> be
>> stricken from the activity? Would we have been wrong to run a clip of
>> Henry
>> Kissinger saying "Piece is at hand," and asking the group to identify the
>> man or what he was talking about or the year when he made the utterance?
>> The
>> blind are at something of a disadvantage because we cannot see him. The
>> deaf
>> are at a disadvantage because they cannot hear him. The young may well be
>> at
>> a disadvantage because they weren't around when he made headlines with
>> that
>> statement, much to the displeasure of his boss, the president of the
>> United
>> States. Take the same question, put it in print, and then decide if it is
>> fair to the dyslexic who might have an easy time with the audio or the
>> video
>> clip.
>>
>> I Don't like being excluded, and if I am excluded enough, I'll find
>> another
>> activity. It hurts and seems unfair, but to me it doesn't rise to the
>> level
>> of discrimination which, if I understand it, means something which is 
>> both
>> unreasonable and detrimental. I don't think we can be critical of people
>> using sight and acknowledging that it plays a major role in the way they
>> find and even remember things. What we can and should make an unequivocal
>> stand for are things which have nonvisual alternatives but which are
>> ignored
>> to the detriment of our education and employment.
>>
>> I do not mean this as a real answer to the question of what should I do,
>> but
>> as a thought process we go through when trying to decide when to fight 
>> and
>> what we can reasonably fight for as blind people. I am not targeting Fred
>> here but trying to engage in some discussion of a philosophical principle
>> that I wrestle with at least two or three times per month. I appreciate
>> the
>> question, even if I don't have anything like a good answer.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of fred olver
>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 8:45 AM
>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>> Subject: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>
>> A year ago, I attended a Trivia Night put on by a food pantry in the St.
>> Louis area. This pantry is supported by my church along with several
>> others.
>> After the night's program was over, half of the categories being visual 
>> in
>> nature so that a blind person could not participate in that portion of 
>> the
>> program I wrote an item for my churches news-letter and sent it on to the
>> director of the organization. In this item I pointed out that it was not
>> fair or necessary to include only video-type questions and asked that 
>> they
>> do, in the future consider having categories which were non-video in the
>> future. I received assurances from the director of the organization that
>> indeed they would do this.
>>
>> Last Friday, I attended their Trivia Nighht again. True, only two
>> categories
>> of questions were video in nature, however these two categories included
>> roughly 1/3 of the questions. Yesterday at a meeting of a church 
>> committee
>> I
>> suggested that they with-hold two weeks worth of donations and that these
>> donations go to another organization as a protest, the rest of the
>> committee
>> said no to this idea, sighting the possibility that a family might have 
>> to
>> do without this food, I personally doubt it, and figure they're just to
>> comfortable in their place and don't wish to because it doesn't affect
>> them,
>> so what would you do if you were in my place? This really upsets me,
>> especially since I had spoken to this organization a year ago and they 
>> had
>> more or less agreed that this was not a good thing to have happen.
>>
>> Fred Olver
>> http://www.dealingwithvisionloss.com For some of us it's a way of life
>> and
>> for some of us it just makes life easier. Fred Olver
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>
>
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