[Nfbmo] What would you do?

Wed Oct 26 22:23:34 UTC 2011

I've run across a few people who believe that if I just pray enough my 
blindness will be cured, but none that thought my blindness was caused 
because I was evil.

Melissa Smith

On 10/26/2011 5:02 PM, Gail Bryant wrote:
> Personally, I go to a wonderful church which has supported me in every way
> possible. When I've had surgery, the helped me with meals and whatever I
> needed.  When Ed died, they prayed with me, cried with me, laughed with me
> and more.   Never have they called me evil. I don't know where Mr. Bradley
> gets his figures, but perhaps the reason he chooses not to go to church is
> out of anger and bitterness
>
> Gail Bryant
> Columbia Braille Teaching Services L.L.C.
> 1212 London Drive
> Columbia, MO 65203-2012
> Phone: (573)817-5993
> Cell: (573)268-4962
> gbryant at socket.net
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Debbie Wunder
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 2:05 PM
> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>
> You are being ridiculous! Where do you get your facts?
> This trivia night issue has nothing to do with god, or opinions of the
> blind.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dewey Bradley"<dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 9:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>
>
>> I wasn't going to reply to this, but I have to say this
>> its been my experience that churches and church groups do this, they do
>> not want anyone with a disability around, they just want to tell us that
>> if we pray harder we will have are sight back, and that we are evil, that
>> is why we are blind.
>> They say that 95% of us don't go to church, I don't know if the numbers
>> are that high, but this is why.
>> Most people that go to church and call them selves Christians are
>> judgmental like that.
>> I'm not saying don't go to church, nor am I trying to get a lintch mob
>> after me, I'm just saying that is what I've noticed, that is why I never
>> go, every church I have seen do not want blind people around.
>> I'm not saying that is the case here, but it could be
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "MATTHEW SIEVERT"<msievert at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:33 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>
>>
>> Group,
>>
>> I hope you are all well.
>>
>> What I have observed is that many times people will want to "rebel"
>> instead of
>> remedy a situation through other means.
>>
>> Equality for all will not take place over a period of one year or even ten
>> years, but you can lay the foundation that other's can build upon.
>>
>> Representing a group in a negative light will not win over supporters. It
>> will
>> bring attention to the issue, but you want people understand, not simply
>> notice
>> through a negative act.
>>
>> Some day we will have a blind/visually impaired astronaut. Until that time
>> we as
>> the NFB should do what we can to build upon our organization's
>> achievements and
>> represent our disabled community in a positive light.
>>
>>
>> Equality at trivia night's should be obtained, but like all challenges, it
>> will
>> take time and a calm intellect.
>>
>> Matt Sievert
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: fred olver<goodfolks at charter.net>
>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wed, October 26, 2011 7:41:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>
>> Gary,
>>
>> I have read your comments several times and perhapse even lost some sleep
>> over what I consider to be an afrontery to me and others who might wish to
>> participate in an activity alongside individuals who are not limited in
>> their vision.
>>
>> Let me say first of all that a year ago I confronted this situation and
>> explained to the individuals in charge that I felt wronged because half of
>> the questions were undeciferable by myself. Okay, they didn't know I was
>> going to be there. This year, however nearly a third of the questions were
>> again undeciferable by a blind person. It is my feeling that if the folks
>> in
>> charge know that individuals will be participating who are unable to
>> participate in a significant number of questions related to the activity
>> that they not allow those questions. To me, the reasons ought to be very
>> obvious. If you alienate a significant number of individuals you won't get
>> them to come back next year. If you knowingly allow questions to be a part
>> of an activity which you know will exclude individuals from participating
>> then you are wrong to include them. If for example I only provide agenda's
>> in Braille to individuals who don't read Braille then I am wrong to do so,
>> because I have ignored their needs.
>>
>> Bottom line, I'm feeling ignored. Next year, I think I'll find seven other
>> individuals who can not make use of visual questions and attend the same
>> fundraiser and practice a bit of civil disobedience.
>>
>>
>> Fred Olver
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Gary Wunder"<GWunder at earthlink.net>
>> To: "'NFB of Missouri Mailing List'"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 5:53 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>
>>
>>> Hi Fred and the folks who have commented here. Please allow me to
>>> interject
>>> another perspective. I find this troublesome philosophically. When I can
>>> have access and am denied it because someone doesn't want to go to the
>>> trouble of making their software accessible, I'm up in arms. When they
>>> use
>>> artificial barriers such as possessing a driver's license when what they
>>> mean is that an employee has to get around, I'm bothered. When they say I
>>> have to be able to visually read print to take a job and I have a machine
>>> to
>>> do it, I'm outraged.
>>>
>>> How is the issue changed when we know of no way to make a process 100
>>> percent accessible? I don't want to deprive anyone of the beauty found in
>>> paintings or photography simply because I can't observe them. I
>>> understand
>>> there are some cartoons that are so torturous to explain that by the time
>>> one finishes putting them into words, they are no longer funny.
>>>
>>> Mental challenges may be audible, visual, or they might even involve
>>> other
>>> senses such as taste or smell. If we look hard enough, we'll find people
>>> who
>>> have problems with one or more of these. So, in the areas where we don't
>>> have true alternatives, should our request be that the thing we cannot do
>>> be
>>> stricken from the activity? Would we have been wrong to run a clip of
>>> Henry
>>> Kissinger saying "Piece is at hand," and asking the group to identify the
>>> man or what he was talking about or the year when he made the utterance?
>>> The
>>> blind are at something of a disadvantage because we cannot see him. The
>>> deaf
>>> are at a disadvantage because they cannot hear him. The young may well be
>>> at
>>> a disadvantage because they weren't around when he made headlines with
>>> that
>>> statement, much to the displeasure of his boss, the president of the
>>> United
>>> States. Take the same question, put it in print, and then decide if it is
>>> fair to the dyslexic who might have an easy time with the audio or the
>>> video
>>> clip.
>>>
>>> I Don't like being excluded, and if I am excluded enough, I'll find
>>> another
>>> activity. It hurts and seems unfair, but to me it doesn't rise to the
>>> level
>>> of discrimination which, if I understand it, means something which is
>>> both
>>> unreasonable and detrimental. I don't think we can be critical of people
>>> using sight and acknowledging that it plays a major role in the way they
>>> find and even remember things. What we can and should make an unequivocal
>>> stand for are things which have nonvisual alternatives but which are
>>> ignored
>>> to the detriment of our education and employment.
>>>
>>> I do not mean this as a real answer to the question of what should I do,
>>> but
>>> as a thought process we go through when trying to decide when to fight
>>> and
>>> what we can reasonably fight for as blind people. I am not targeting Fred
>>> here but trying to engage in some discussion of a philosophical principle
>>> that I wrestle with at least two or three times per month. I appreciate
>>> the
>>> question, even if I don't have anything like a good answer.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of fred olver
>>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 8:45 AM
>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>>> Subject: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>
>>> A year ago, I attended a Trivia Night put on by a food pantry in the St.
>>> Louis area. This pantry is supported by my church along with several
>>> others.
>>> After the night's program was over, half of the categories being visual
>>> in
>>> nature so that a blind person could not participate in that portion of
>>> the
>>> program I wrote an item for my churches news-letter and sent it on to the
>>> director of the organization. In this item I pointed out that it was not
>>> fair or necessary to include only video-type questions and asked that
>>> they
>>> do, in the future consider having categories which were non-video in the
>>> future. I received assurances from the director of the organization that
>>> indeed they would do this.
>>>
>>> Last Friday, I attended their Trivia Nighht again. True, only two
>>> categories
>>> of questions were video in nature, however these two categories included
>>> roughly 1/3 of the questions. Yesterday at a meeting of a church
>>> committee
>>> I
>>> suggested that they with-hold two weeks worth of donations and that these
>>> donations go to another organization as a protest, the rest of the
>>> committee
>>> said no to this idea, sighting the possibility that a family might have
>>> to
>>> do without this food, I personally doubt it, and figure they're just to
>>> comfortable in their place and don't wish to because it doesn't affect
>>> them,
>>> so what would you do if you were in my place? This really upsets me,
>>> especially since I had spoken to this organization a year ago and they
>>> had
>>> more or less agreed that this was not a good thing to have happen.
>>>
>>> Fred Olver
>>> http://www.dealingwithvisionloss.com For some of us it's a way of life
>>> and
>>> for some of us it just makes life easier. Fred Olver
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>>
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