[Nfbmo] Fearing not being able to see.

fred olver goodfolks at charter.net
Thu Oct 27 12:35:05 UTC 2011


It has for a long time now, been my contention that people with vision have 
been brought up to fear not being able to see. For the last several months I 
have given much consideration and thought to, going to a local newspaper and 
asking for equal time with regard to the positive aspects of blindness, the 
advances in technology, ground-breaking cases etc. When a person goes to 
bed, they take off their glasses, and the glasses are the first thing they 
reach for. They can't find the bathroom, let alone the floor without their 
glasses and they are taught to do that by their siblings and parents. A sad 
state of affairs if you ask me.

Fred Olver
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gary Wunder" <GWunder at earthlink.net>
To: "'NFB of Missouri Mailing List'" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 7:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?


> Hi Dewey. This is not just you being angry--this is blindness being feared
> second only to cancer--and it points up the work we have to do both for
> ourselves and blind people to come. We have to convince them there is
> quality life after blindness.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Dewey Bradley
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 11:40 PM
> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>
> I had a guy at the bus stop the other day telling someone that if he were
> blind he would kill him self, but that is just me being angry I guess.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <DanFlasar at aol.com>
> To: <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>
>
>> There are always a few fringey people in every  group.  Generally, it's
>> not
>> good to elect, appoint or anoint them, much  less generalize from their
>> poor behavior to the rest of the group.
>>     And anyone who would pray for you to get your  sight back and call 
>> you
>> evil if you don't needs to pray to lift the arrogance  from their soul.
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 10/26/2011 5:51:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>> mdsmith25 at ktis.net writes:
>>
>> I've run  across a few people who believe that if I just pray enough my
>> blindness  will be cured, but none that thought my blindness was caused
>> because I was  evil.
>>
>> Melissa Smith
>>
>> On 10/26/2011 5:02 PM, Gail Bryant  wrote:
>>> Personally, I go to a wonderful church which has supported me  in every
>> way
>>> possible. When I've had surgery, the helped me with meals  and whatever 
>>> I
>>> needed.  When Ed died, they prayed with me, cried  with me, laughed with
>> me
>>> and more.   Never have they called  me evil. I don't know where Mr.
>> Bradley
>>> gets his figures, but perhaps  the reason he chooses not to go to church
>> is
>>> out of anger and  bitterness
>>>
>>> Gail Bryant
>>> Columbia Braille Teaching  Services L.L.C.
>>> 1212 London Drive
>>> Columbia, MO  65203-2012
>>> Phone: (573)817-5993
>>> Cell: (573)268-4962
>>>  gbryant at socket.net
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>  From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>>> Of Debbie Wunder
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 2:05  PM
>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What  would you do?
>>>
>>> You are being ridiculous! Where do you get your  facts?
>>> This trivia night issue has nothing to do with god, or opinions  of the
>>> blind.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From:  "Dewey Bradley"<dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
>>> To: "NFB of Missouri  Mailing List"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26,  2011 9:39 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you  do?
>>>
>>>
>>>> I wasn't going to reply to this, but I have to  say this
>>>> its been my experience that churches and church groups do  this, they 
>>>> do
>>>> not want anyone with a disability around, they just  want to tell us
>>>> that
>>>> if we pray harder we will have are sight  back, and that we are evil,
>> that
>>>> is why we are blind.
>>>>  They say that 95% of us don't go to church, I don't know if the
>>>> numbers
>>>> are that high, but this is why.
>>>> Most people  that go to church and call them selves Christians are
>>>> judgmental  like that.
>>>> I'm not saying don't go to church, nor am I trying to  get a lintch mob
>>>> after me, I'm just saying that is what I've  noticed, that is why I
>>>> never
>>>> go, every church I have seen do not  want blind people around.
>>>> I'm not saying that is the case here,  but it could be
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message  -----
>>>> From: "MATTHEW  SIEVERT"<msievert at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> To: "NFB of Missouri  Mailing List"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26,  2011 7:33 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you  do?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Group,
>>>>
>>>> I hope  you are all well.
>>>>
>>>> What I have observed is that many  times people will want to "rebel"
>>>> instead of
>>>> remedy a  situation through other means.
>>>>
>>>> Equality for all will  not take place over a period of one year or even
>> ten
>>>> years, but  you can lay the foundation that other's can build  upon.
>>>>
>>>> Representing a group in a negative light will  not win over supporters.
>> It
>>>> will
>>>> bring attention to  the issue, but you want people understand, not
>>>> simply
>>>>  notice
>>>> through a negative act.
>>>>
>>>> Some day we  will have a blind/visually impaired astronaut. Until that
>> time
>>>> we  as
>>>> the NFB should do what we can to build upon our  organization's
>>>> achievements and
>>>> represent our disabled  community in a positive light.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Equality at  trivia night's should be obtained, but like all 
>>>> challenges,
>> it
>>>>  will
>>>> take time and a calm intellect.
>>>>
>>>> Matt  Sievert
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  ________________________________
>>>> From: fred  olver<goodfolks at charter.net>
>>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing  List<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wed, October 26, 2011 7:41:12  AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>
>>>>  Gary,
>>>>
>>>> I have read your comments several times and  perhapse even lost some
>> sleep
>>>> over what I consider to be an  afrontery to me and others who might 
>>>> wish
>> to
>>>> participate in an  activity alongside individuals who are not limited 
>>>> in
>>>> their  vision.
>>>>
>>>> Let me say first of all that a year ago I  confronted this situation 
>>>> and
>>>> explained to the individuals in  charge that I felt wronged because 
>>>> half
>> of
>>>> the questions were  undeciferable by myself. Okay, they didn't know I
>>>> was
>>>> going to be  there. This year, however nearly a third of the questions
>> were
>>>>  again undeciferable by a blind person. It is my feeling that if the
>> folks
>>>> in
>>>> charge know that individuals will be  participating who are unable to
>>>> participate in a significant  number of questions related to the
>>>> activity
>>>> that they not allow  those questions. To me, the reasons ought to be
>>>> very
>>>> obvious. If  you alienate a significant number of individuals you won't
>> get
>>>>  them to come back next year. If you knowingly allow questions to be a
>> part
>>>> of an activity which you know will exclude individuals from
>> participating
>>>> then you are wrong to include them. If for example I  only provide
>> agenda's
>>>> in Braille to individuals who don't read  Braille then I am wrong to do
>> so,
>>>> because I have ignored their  needs.
>>>>
>>>> Bottom line, I'm feeling ignored. Next year, I  think I'll find seven
>> other
>>>> individuals who can not make use of  visual questions and attend the
>>>> same
>>>> fundraiser and practice a bit  of civil disobedience.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fred  Olver
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Gary  Wunder"<GWunder at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "'NFB of Missouri Mailing  List'"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011  5:53 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you  do?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Fred and the folks who have  commented here. Please allow me to
>>>>> interject
>>>>>  another perspective. I find this troublesome philosophically. When I
>> can
>>>>> have access and am denied it because someone doesn't want  to go to 
>>>>> the
>>>>> trouble of making their software accessible, I'm  up in arms. When 
>>>>> they
>>>>> use
>>>>> artificial barriers  such as possessing a driver's license when what
>> they
>>>>> mean is  that an employee has to get around, I'm bothered. When they
>> say  I
>>>>> have to be able to visually read print to take a job and I  have a
>> machine
>>>>> to
>>>>> do it, I'm  outraged.
>>>>>
>>>>> How is the issue changed when we  know of no way to make a process 100
>>>>> percent accessible? I  don't want to deprive anyone of the beauty 
>>>>> found
>> in
>>>>> paintings  or photography simply because I can't observe them. I
>>>>>  understand
>>>>> there are some cartoons that are so torturous to  explain that by the
>> time
>>>>> one finishes putting them into words,  they are no longer funny.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mental challenges  may be audible, visual, or they might even involve
>>>>>  other
>>>>> senses such as taste or smell. If we look hard enough,  we'll find
>> people
>>>>> who
>>>>> have problems with one  or more of these. So, in the areas where we
>> don't
>>>>> have true  alternatives, should our request be that the thing we 
>>>>> cannot
>> do
>>>>> be
>>>>> stricken from the activity? Would we  have been wrong to run a clip of
>>>>> Henry
>>>>>  Kissinger saying "Piece is at hand," and asking the group to identify
>> the
>>>>> man or what he was talking about or the year when he made  the
>> utterance?
>>>>> The
>>>>> blind are at something of a  disadvantage because we cannot see him.
>>>>> The
>>>>>  deaf
>>>>> are at a disadvantage because they cannot hear him. The  young may 
>>>>> well
>> be
>>>>> at
>>>>> a disadvantage because  they weren't around when he made headlines 
>>>>> with
>>>>>  that
>>>>> statement, much to the displeasure of his boss, the  president of the
>>>>> United
>>>>> States. Take the same  question, put it in print, and then decide if 
>>>>> it
>> is
>>>>> fair to  the dyslexic who might have an easy time with the audio or 
>>>>> the
>>>>>  video
>>>>> clip.
>>>>>
>>>>> I Don't like being  excluded, and if I am excluded enough, I'll find
>>>>>  another
>>>>> activity. It hurts and seems unfair, but to me it  doesn't rise to the
>>>>> level
>>>>> of discrimination  which, if I understand it, means something which is
>>>>>  both
>>>>> unreasonable and detrimental. I don't think we can be  critical of
>> people
>>>>> using sight and acknowledging that it plays  a major role in the way
>> they
>>>>> find and even remember things.  What we can and should make an
>> unequivocal
>>>>> stand for are  things which have nonvisual alternatives but which are
>>>>>  ignored
>>>>> to the detriment of our education and  employment.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not mean this as a real  answer to the question of what should I
>> do,
>>>>>  but
>>>>> as a thought process we go through when trying to decide  when to 
>>>>> fight
>>>>> and
>>>>> what we can reasonably fight  for as blind people. I am not targeting
>> Fred
>>>>> here but trying  to engage in some discussion of a philosophical
>> principle
>>>>> that  I wrestle with at least two or three times per month. I
>> appreciate
>>>>> the
>>>>> question, even if I don't have  anything like a good answer.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org  [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of  fred olver
>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 8:45  AM
>>>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>>>>> Subject:  [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>
>>>>> A year ago, I  attended a Trivia Night put on by a food pantry in the
>> St.
>>>>>  Louis area. This pantry is supported by my church along with  several
>>>>> others.
>>>>> After the night's program was  over, half of the categories being
>>>>> visual
>>>>> in
>>>>>  nature so that a blind person could not participate in that portion
>>>>> of
>>>>> the
>>>>> program I wrote an item for my churches  news-letter and sent it on to
>> the
>>>>> director of the  organization. In this item I pointed out that it was
>> not
>>>>> fair  or necessary to include only video-type questions and asked 
>>>>> that
>>>>> they
>>>>> do, in the future consider having  categories which were non-video in
>> the
>>>>> future. I received  assurances from the director of the organization
>> that
>>>>> indeed  they would do this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Last Friday, I attended  their Trivia Nighht again. True, only two
>>>>>  categories
>>>>> of questions were video in nature, however these  two categories
>> included
>>>>> roughly 1/3 of the questions.  Yesterday at a meeting of a church
>>>>> committee
>>>>>  I
>>>>> suggested that they with-hold two weeks worth of donations  and that
>> these
>>>>> donations go to another organization as a  protest, the rest of the
>>>>> committee
>>>>> said no to  this idea, sighting the possibility that a family might
>>>>> have
>>>>>  to
>>>>> do without this food, I personally doubt it, and figure  they're just
>>>>> to
>>>>> comfortable in their place and don't wish to  because it doesn't 
>>>>> affect
>>>>> them,
>>>>> so what would  you do if you were in my place? This really upsets me,
>>>>>  especially since I had spoken to this organization a year ago and
>>>>> they
>>>>> had
>>>>> more or less agreed that this was not  a good thing to have happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fred  Olver
>>>>> http://www.dealingwithvisionloss.com For some of us it's  a way of 
>>>>> life
>>>>> and
>>>>> for some of us it just makes  life easier. Fred Olver
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
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