[Nfbmo] What would you do?

Dewey Bradley dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com
Thu Oct 27 15:30:05 UTC 2011 

nope, I don't think you will see me at anything
have a good day
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Debbie Wunder" <debbiewunder at centurytel.net>
To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?


> Dewey, we would love to have you as a member, if you choose not to be then 
> both you and the NFB are being short changed. It seems to me that you 
> often dwell on the negative instead of the positive. Yes I have her 
> negative comments about the blind even from the church groups, But what is 
> ridiculous is the thought that a trivia game is made difficult to keep the 
> blind away.
>
> We will have a meeting in Springfield the first Saturday in November, 
> would you like to join us? We would like to have you. If you would like 
> more information please let me know.
>
> Hope to see you there!
> Debbie
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 11:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>
>
>>A blind pastor said it, like I said, I don't know if the numbers are that 
>>high, nore can they tell who goes.
>>
>> But thank you for calling me ridiculous, it really encourages people to 
>> join the groups and go to the chapter meetings.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Debbie Wunder" <debbiewunder at centurytel.net>
>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 2:04 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>
>>
>>> You are being ridiculous! Where do you get your facts?
>>> This trivia night issue has nothing to do with god, or opinions of the 
>>> blind.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 9:39 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>
>>>
>>>>I wasn't going to reply to this, but I have to say this
>>>> its been my experience that churches and church groups do this, they do 
>>>> not want anyone with a disability around, they just want to tell us 
>>>> that if we pray harder we will have are sight back, and that we are 
>>>> evil, that is why we are blind.
>>>> They say that 95% of us don't go to church, I don't know if the numbers 
>>>> are that high, but this is why.
>>>> Most people that go to church and call them selves Christians are 
>>>> judgmental like that.
>>>> I'm not saying don't go to church, nor am I trying to get a lintch mob 
>>>> after me, I'm just saying that is what I've noticed, that is why I 
>>>> never go, every church I have seen do not want blind people around.
>>>> I'm not saying that is the case here, but it could be
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "MATTHEW SIEVERT" <msievert at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:33 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Group,
>>>>
>>>> I hope you are all well.
>>>>
>>>> What I have observed is that many times people will want to "rebel" 
>>>> instead of
>>>> remedy a situation through other means.
>>>>
>>>> Equality for all will not take place over a period of one year or even 
>>>> ten
>>>> years, but you can lay the foundation that other's can build upon.
>>>>
>>>> Representing a group in a negative light will not win over supporters. 
>>>> It will
>>>> bring attention to the issue, but you want people understand, not 
>>>> simply notice
>>>> through a negative act.
>>>>
>>>> Some day we will have a blind/visually impaired astronaut. Until that 
>>>> time we as
>>>> the NFB should do what we can to build upon our organization's 
>>>> achievements and
>>>> represent our disabled community in a positive light.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Equality at trivia night's should be obtained, but like all challenges, 
>>>> it will
>>>> take time and a calm intellect.
>>>>
>>>> Matt Sievert
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: fred olver <goodfolks at charter.net>
>>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wed, October 26, 2011 7:41:12 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>
>>>> Gary,
>>>>
>>>> I have read your comments several times and perhapse even lost some 
>>>> sleep
>>>> over what I consider to be an afrontery to me and others who might wish 
>>>> to
>>>> participate in an activity alongside individuals who are not limited in
>>>> their vision.
>>>>
>>>> Let me say first of all that a year ago I confronted this situation and
>>>> explained to the individuals in charge that I felt wronged because half 
>>>> of
>>>> the questions were undeciferable by myself. Okay, they didn't know I 
>>>> was
>>>> going to be there. This year, however nearly a third of the questions 
>>>> were
>>>> again undeciferable by a blind person. It is my feeling that if the 
>>>> folks in
>>>> charge know that individuals will be participating who are unable to
>>>> participate in a significant number of questions related to the 
>>>> activity
>>>> that they not allow those questions. To me, the reasons ought to be 
>>>> very
>>>> obvious. If you alienate a significant number of individuals you won't 
>>>> get
>>>> them to come back next year. If you knowingly allow questions to be a 
>>>> part
>>>> of an activity which you know will exclude individuals from 
>>>> participating
>>>> then you are wrong to include them. If for example I only provide 
>>>> agenda's
>>>> in Braille to individuals who don't read Braille then I am wrong to do 
>>>> so,
>>>> because I have ignored their needs.
>>>>
>>>> Bottom line, I'm feeling ignored. Next year, I think I'll find seven 
>>>> other
>>>> individuals who can not make use of visual questions and attend the 
>>>> same
>>>> fundraiser and practice a bit of civil disobedience.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fred Olver
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Gary Wunder" <GWunder at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "'NFB of Missouri Mailing List'" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 5:53 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Fred and the folks who have commented here. Please allow me to
>>>>> interject
>>>>> another perspective. I find this troublesome philosophically. When I 
>>>>> can
>>>>> have access and am denied it because someone doesn't want to go to the
>>>>> trouble of making their software accessible, I'm up in arms. When they 
>>>>> use
>>>>> artificial barriers such as possessing a driver's license when what 
>>>>> they
>>>>> mean is that an employee has to get around, I'm bothered. When they 
>>>>> say I
>>>>> have to be able to visually read print to take a job and I have a 
>>>>> machine
>>>>> to
>>>>> do it, I'm outraged.
>>>>>
>>>>> How is the issue changed when we know of no way to make a process 100
>>>>> percent accessible? I don't want to deprive anyone of the beauty found 
>>>>> in
>>>>> paintings or photography simply because I can't observe them. I 
>>>>> understand
>>>>> there are some cartoons that are so torturous to explain that by the 
>>>>> time
>>>>> one finishes putting them into words, they are no longer funny.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mental challenges may be audible, visual, or they might even involve 
>>>>> other
>>>>> senses such as taste or smell. If we look hard enough, we'll find 
>>>>> people
>>>>> who
>>>>> have problems with one or more of these. So, in the areas where we 
>>>>> don't
>>>>> have true alternatives, should our request be that the thing we cannot 
>>>>> do
>>>>> be
>>>>> stricken from the activity? Would we have been wrong to run a clip of
>>>>> Henry
>>>>> Kissinger saying "Piece is at hand," and asking the group to identify 
>>>>> the
>>>>> man or what he was talking about or the year when he made the 
>>>>> utterance?
>>>>> The
>>>>> blind are at something of a disadvantage because we cannot see him. 
>>>>> The
>>>>> deaf
>>>>> are at a disadvantage because they cannot hear him. The young may well 
>>>>> be
>>>>> at
>>>>> a disadvantage because they weren't around when he made headlines with
>>>>> that
>>>>> statement, much to the displeasure of his boss, the president of the
>>>>> United
>>>>> States. Take the same question, put it in print, and then decide if it 
>>>>> is
>>>>> fair to the dyslexic who might have an easy time with the audio or the
>>>>> video
>>>>> clip.
>>>>>
>>>>> I Don't like being excluded, and if I am excluded enough, I'll find
>>>>> another
>>>>> activity. It hurts and seems unfair, but to me it doesn't rise to the
>>>>> level
>>>>> of discrimination which, if I understand it, means something which is 
>>>>> both
>>>>> unreasonable and detrimental. I don't think we can be critical of 
>>>>> people
>>>>> using sight and acknowledging that it plays a major role in the way 
>>>>> they
>>>>> find and even remember things. What we can and should make an 
>>>>> unequivocal
>>>>> stand for are things which have nonvisual alternatives but which are
>>>>> ignored
>>>>> to the detriment of our education and employment.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not mean this as a real answer to the question of what should I 
>>>>> do,
>>>>> but
>>>>> as a thought process we go through when trying to decide when to fight 
>>>>> and
>>>>> what we can reasonably fight for as blind people. I am not targeting 
>>>>> Fred
>>>>> here but trying to engage in some discussion of a philosophical 
>>>>> principle
>>>>> that I wrestle with at least two or three times per month. I 
>>>>> appreciate
>>>>> the
>>>>> question, even if I don't have anything like a good answer.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of fred olver
>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 8:45 AM
>>>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>
>>>>> A year ago, I attended a Trivia Night put on by a food pantry in the 
>>>>> St.
>>>>> Louis area. This pantry is supported by my church along with several
>>>>> others.
>>>>> After the night's program was over, half of the categories being 
>>>>> visual in
>>>>> nature so that a blind person could not participate in that portion of 
>>>>> the
>>>>> program I wrote an item for my churches news-letter and sent it on to 
>>>>> the
>>>>> director of the organization. In this item I pointed out that it was 
>>>>> not
>>>>> fair or necessary to include only video-type questions and asked that 
>>>>> they
>>>>> do, in the future consider having categories which were non-video in 
>>>>> the
>>>>> future. I received assurances from the director of the organization 
>>>>> that
>>>>> indeed they would do this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Last Friday, I attended their Trivia Nighht again. True, only two
>>>>> categories
>>>>> of questions were video in nature, however these two categories 
>>>>> included
>>>>> roughly 1/3 of the questions. Yesterday at a meeting of a church 
>>>>> committee
>>>>> I
>>>>> suggested that they with-hold two weeks worth of donations and that 
>>>>> these
>>>>> donations go to another organization as a protest, the rest of the
>>>>> committee
>>>>> said no to this idea, sighting the possibility that a family might 
>>>>> have to
>>>>> do without this food, I personally doubt it, and figure they're just 
>>>>> to
>>>>> comfortable in their place and don't wish to because it doesn't affect
>>>>> them,
>>>>> so what would you do if you were in my place? This really upsets me,
>>>>> especially since I had spoken to this organization a year ago and they 
>>>>> had
>>>>> more or less agreed that this was not a good thing to have happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fred Olver
>>>>> http://www.dealingwithvisionloss.com For some of us it's a way of life
>>>>> and
>>>>> for some of us it just makes life easier. Fred Olver
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
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