[Nfbmo] Fw: Fw: What would you do?

James Moynihan jamesmmoynihan at gmail.com
Fri Oct 28 14:59:17 UTC 2011 

Dear Dewey:

I have read your emails for a long time  regarding NFB concerns.  I always 
assumed you were a member until I was told that you were not a member of 
NFB.  Debbie Wunder who is the president's wife invited you to attend a 
meeting in Springfield and said she would like you to become a member.  This 
was a friendly invitation to join.

It seems to me that you are very familiar with NFB and where we stand. I 
agree with Debbie that you should go to the Springfield meeting and become a 
member  .  If you do not go to the meeting  and you do not intend to become 
a member, in  the future you should refrain from sending emails commenting 
on the NFB.

Cordially,

Jim Moynihan


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] Fw: What would you do?


> The thing is I wasn't being critical, I was just saying that I my self had 
> had bad experiences, and then everyone starts calling me angry and stuff.
> But I will say no more on this or anything else
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "James Moynihan" <jamesmmoynihan at gmail.com>
> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 6:10 PM
> Subject: [Nfbmo] Fw: What would you do?
>
>
>> Dear Dewey et al:
>>
>> Gary Wunder made an analogy between the NFB and a small canoe.  We have a 
>> small canoe and not enough paddlers.
>>
>> My advice to you is to get in or get out.  I don't understand why you 
>> read our emails and make critical comments if you are not a member.  We 
>> have to waste our time reading our critical comments.
>>
>> When I moved to Saint Louis I joined Mary Mother of the Churdch and I 
>> participate in their activities. They have learned that it is a stick not 
>> a cane and that blind people can participate intelligently in group 
>> activities.  Ignorance regarding blindness is rampant throughout our 
>> society so it is inappropriate to dwell on church members.  Cordially
>>
>> Jim MoynihanWe have a few
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:30 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>
>>
>>> nope, I don't think you will see me at anything
>>> have a good day
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Debbie Wunder" <debbiewunder at centurytel.net>
>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 7:37 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dewey, we would love to have you as a member, if you choose not to be 
>>>> then both you and the NFB are being short changed. It seems to me that 
>>>> you often dwell on the negative instead of the positive. Yes I have her 
>>>> negative comments about the blind even from the church groups, But what 
>>>> is ridiculous is the thought that a trivia game is made difficult to 
>>>> keep the blind away.
>>>>
>>>> We will have a meeting in Springfield the first Saturday in November, 
>>>> would you like to join us? We would like to have you. If you would like 
>>>> more information please let me know.
>>>>
>>>> Hope to see you there!
>>>> Debbie
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
>>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 11:32 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>A blind pastor said it, like I said, I don't know if the numbers are 
>>>>>that high, nore can they tell who goes.
>>>>>
>>>>> But thank you for calling me ridiculous, it really encourages people 
>>>>> to join the groups and go to the chapter meetings.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Debbie Wunder" <debbiewunder at centurytel.net>
>>>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 2:04 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You are being ridiculous! Where do you get your facts?
>>>>>> This trivia night issue has nothing to do with god, or opinions of 
>>>>>> the blind.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
>>>>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 9:39 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I wasn't going to reply to this, but I have to say this
>>>>>>> its been my experience that churches and church groups do this, they 
>>>>>>> do not want anyone with a disability around, they just want to tell 
>>>>>>> us that if we pray harder we will have are sight back, and that we 
>>>>>>> are evil, that is why we are blind.
>>>>>>> They say that 95% of us don't go to church, I don't know if the 
>>>>>>> numbers are that high, but this is why.
>>>>>>> Most people that go to church and call them selves Christians are 
>>>>>>> judgmental like that.
>>>>>>> I'm not saying don't go to church, nor am I trying to get a lintch 
>>>>>>> mob after me, I'm just saying that is what I've noticed, that is why 
>>>>>>> I never go, every church I have seen do not want blind people 
>>>>>>> around.
>>>>>>> I'm not saying that is the case here, but it could be
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>> From: "MATTHEW SIEVERT" <msievert at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:33 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Group,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hope you are all well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I have observed is that many times people will want to "rebel" 
>>>>>>> instead of
>>>>>>> remedy a situation through other means.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Equality for all will not take place over a period of one year or 
>>>>>>> even ten
>>>>>>> years, but you can lay the foundation that other's can build upon.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Representing a group in a negative light will not win over 
>>>>>>> supporters. It will
>>>>>>> bring attention to the issue, but you want people understand, not 
>>>>>>> simply notice
>>>>>>> through a negative act.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some day we will have a blind/visually impaired astronaut. Until 
>>>>>>> that time we as
>>>>>>> the NFB should do what we can to build upon our organization's 
>>>>>>> achievements and
>>>>>>> represent our disabled community in a positive light.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Equality at trivia night's should be obtained, but like all 
>>>>>>> challenges, it will
>>>>>>> take time and a calm intellect.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Matt Sievert
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>> From: fred olver <goodfolks at charter.net>
>>>>>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wed, October 26, 2011 7:41:12 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gary,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have read your comments several times and perhapse even lost some 
>>>>>>> sleep
>>>>>>> over what I consider to be an afrontery to me and others who might 
>>>>>>> wish to
>>>>>>> participate in an activity alongside individuals who are not limited 
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> their vision.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me say first of all that a year ago I confronted this situation 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> explained to the individuals in charge that I felt wronged because 
>>>>>>> half of
>>>>>>> the questions were undeciferable by myself. Okay, they didn't know I 
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> going to be there. This year, however nearly a third of the 
>>>>>>> questions were
>>>>>>> again undeciferable by a blind person. It is my feeling that if the 
>>>>>>> folks in
>>>>>>> charge know that individuals will be participating who are unable to
>>>>>>> participate in a significant number of questions related to the 
>>>>>>> activity
>>>>>>> that they not allow those questions. To me, the reasons ought to be 
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> obvious. If you alienate a significant number of individuals you 
>>>>>>> won't get
>>>>>>> them to come back next year. If you knowingly allow questions to be 
>>>>>>> a part
>>>>>>> of an activity which you know will exclude individuals from 
>>>>>>> participating
>>>>>>> then you are wrong to include them. If for example I only provide 
>>>>>>> agenda's
>>>>>>> in Braille to individuals who don't read Braille then I am wrong to 
>>>>>>> do so,
>>>>>>> because I have ignored their needs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bottom line, I'm feeling ignored. Next year, I think I'll find seven 
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> individuals who can not make use of visual questions and attend the 
>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>> fundraiser and practice a bit of civil disobedience.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fred Olver
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>> From: "Gary Wunder" <GWunder at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>> To: "'NFB of Missouri Mailing List'" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 5:53 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Fred and the folks who have commented here. Please allow me to
>>>>>>>> interject
>>>>>>>> another perspective. I find this troublesome philosophically. When 
>>>>>>>> I can
>>>>>>>> have access and am denied it because someone doesn't want to go to 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> trouble of making their software accessible, I'm up in arms. When 
>>>>>>>> they use
>>>>>>>> artificial barriers such as possessing a driver's license when what 
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> mean is that an employee has to get around, I'm bothered. When they 
>>>>>>>> say I
>>>>>>>> have to be able to visually read print to take a job and I have a 
>>>>>>>> machine
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> do it, I'm outraged.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How is the issue changed when we know of no way to make a process 
>>>>>>>> 100
>>>>>>>> percent accessible? I don't want to deprive anyone of the beauty 
>>>>>>>> found in
>>>>>>>> paintings or photography simply because I can't observe them. I 
>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>> there are some cartoons that are so torturous to explain that by 
>>>>>>>> the time
>>>>>>>> one finishes putting them into words, they are no longer funny.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mental challenges may be audible, visual, or they might even 
>>>>>>>> involve other
>>>>>>>> senses such as taste or smell. If we look hard enough, we'll find 
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>> have problems with one or more of these. So, in the areas where we 
>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>> have true alternatives, should our request be that the thing we 
>>>>>>>> cannot do
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> stricken from the activity? Would we have been wrong to run a clip 
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> Henry
>>>>>>>> Kissinger saying "Piece is at hand," and asking the group to 
>>>>>>>> identify the
>>>>>>>> man or what he was talking about or the year when he made the 
>>>>>>>> utterance?
>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>> blind are at something of a disadvantage because we cannot see him. 
>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>> deaf
>>>>>>>> are at a disadvantage because they cannot hear him. The young may 
>>>>>>>> well be
>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>> a disadvantage because they weren't around when he made headlines 
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> statement, much to the displeasure of his boss, the president of 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> United
>>>>>>>> States. Take the same question, put it in print, and then decide if 
>>>>>>>> it is
>>>>>>>> fair to the dyslexic who might have an easy time with the audio or 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> video
>>>>>>>> clip.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I Don't like being excluded, and if I am excluded enough, I'll find
>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>> activity. It hurts and seems unfair, but to me it doesn't rise to 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> level
>>>>>>>> of discrimination which, if I understand it, means something which 
>>>>>>>> is both
>>>>>>>> unreasonable and detrimental. I don't think we can be critical of 
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> using sight and acknowledging that it plays a major role in the way 
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> find and even remember things. What we can and should make an 
>>>>>>>> unequivocal
>>>>>>>> stand for are things which have nonvisual alternatives but which 
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> ignored
>>>>>>>> to the detriment of our education and employment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I do not mean this as a real answer to the question of what should 
>>>>>>>> I do,
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> as a thought process we go through when trying to decide when to 
>>>>>>>> fight and
>>>>>>>> what we can reasonably fight for as blind people. I am not 
>>>>>>>> targeting Fred
>>>>>>>> here but trying to engage in some discussion of a philosophical 
>>>>>>>> principle
>>>>>>>> that I wrestle with at least two or three times per month. I 
>>>>>>>> appreciate
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> question, even if I don't have anything like a good answer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>> Of fred olver
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 8:45 AM
>>>>>>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>>>>>>>> Subject: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A year ago, I attended a Trivia Night put on by a food pantry in 
>>>>>>>> the St.
>>>>>>>> Louis area. This pantry is supported by my church along with 
>>>>>>>> several
>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>> After the night's program was over, half of the categories being 
>>>>>>>> visual in
>>>>>>>> nature so that a blind person could not participate in that portion 
>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>> program I wrote an item for my churches news-letter and sent it on 
>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>> director of the organization. In this item I pointed out that it 
>>>>>>>> was not
>>>>>>>> fair or necessary to include only video-type questions and asked 
>>>>>>>> that they
>>>>>>>> do, in the future consider having categories which were non-video 
>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>> future. I received assurances from the director of the organization 
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> indeed they would do this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Last Friday, I attended their Trivia Nighht again. True, only two
>>>>>>>> categories
>>>>>>>> of questions were video in nature, however these two categories 
>>>>>>>> included
>>>>>>>> roughly 1/3 of the questions. Yesterday at a meeting of a church 
>>>>>>>> committee
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> suggested that they with-hold two weeks worth of donations and that 
>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>> donations go to another organization as a protest, the rest of the
>>>>>>>> committee
>>>>>>>> said no to this idea, sighting the possibility that a family might 
>>>>>>>> have to
>>>>>>>> do without this food, I personally doubt it, and figure they're 
>>>>>>>> just to
>>>>>>>> comfortable in their place and don't wish to because it doesn't 
>>>>>>>> affect
>>>>>>>> them,
>>>>>>>> so what would you do if you were in my place? This really upsets 
>>>>>>>> me,
>>>>>>>> especially since I had spoken to this organization a year ago and 
>>>>>>>> they had
>>>>>>>> more or less agreed that this was not a good thing to have happen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fred Olver
>>>>>>>> http://www.dealingwithvisionloss.com For some of us it's a way of 
>>>>>>>> life
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> for some of us it just makes life easier. Fred Olver
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Nfbmo:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/gwunder%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Nfbmo:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/goodfolks%40charter.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for Nfbmo:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/msievert%40sbcglobal.net
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for Nfbmo:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/dewey.bradley%40kc.rr.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for Nfbmo:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/debbiewunder%40centurytel.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>>> Nfbmo:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/dewey.bradley%40kc.rr.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> Nfbmo:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/debbiewunder%40centurytel.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> Nfbmo:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/dewey.bradley%40kc.rr.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> Nfbmo:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/jamesmmoynihan%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nfbmo mailing list
>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> Nfbmo:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/dewey.bradley%40kc.rr.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbmo mailing list
> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Nfbmo:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/jamesmmoynihan%40gmail.com

More information about the NFBMO mailing list