[Nfbmo] Fw: Fw: What would you do?
James Moynihan
jamesmmoynihan at gmail.com
Fri Oct 28 14:59:17 UTC 2011
Dear Dewey:
I have read your emails for a long time regarding NFB concerns. I always
assumed you were a member until I was told that you were not a member of
NFB. Debbie Wunder who is the president's wife invited you to attend a
meeting in Springfield and said she would like you to become a member. This
was a friendly invitation to join.
It seems to me that you are very familiar with NFB and where we stand. I
agree with Debbie that you should go to the Springfield meeting and become a
member . If you do not go to the meeting and you do not intend to become
a member, in the future you should refrain from sending emails commenting
on the NFB.
Cordially,
Jim Moynihan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] Fw: What would you do?
> The thing is I wasn't being critical, I was just saying that I my self had
> had bad experiences, and then everyone starts calling me angry and stuff.
> But I will say no more on this or anything else
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Moynihan" <jamesmmoynihan at gmail.com>
> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 6:10 PM
> Subject: [Nfbmo] Fw: What would you do?
>
>
>> Dear Dewey et al:
>>
>> Gary Wunder made an analogy between the NFB and a small canoe. We have a
>> small canoe and not enough paddlers.
>>
>> My advice to you is to get in or get out. I don't understand why you
>> read our emails and make critical comments if you are not a member. We
>> have to waste our time reading our critical comments.
>>
>> When I moved to Saint Louis I joined Mary Mother of the Churdch and I
>> participate in their activities. They have learned that it is a stick not
>> a cane and that blind people can participate intelligently in group
>> activities. Ignorance regarding blindness is rampant throughout our
>> society so it is inappropriate to dwell on church members. Cordially
>>
>> Jim MoynihanWe have a few
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:30 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>
>>
>>> nope, I don't think you will see me at anything
>>> have a good day
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Debbie Wunder" <debbiewunder at centurytel.net>
>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 7:37 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dewey, we would love to have you as a member, if you choose not to be
>>>> then both you and the NFB are being short changed. It seems to me that
>>>> you often dwell on the negative instead of the positive. Yes I have her
>>>> negative comments about the blind even from the church groups, But what
>>>> is ridiculous is the thought that a trivia game is made difficult to
>>>> keep the blind away.
>>>>
>>>> We will have a meeting in Springfield the first Saturday in November,
>>>> would you like to join us? We would like to have you. If you would like
>>>> more information please let me know.
>>>>
>>>> Hope to see you there!
>>>> Debbie
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
>>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 11:32 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>A blind pastor said it, like I said, I don't know if the numbers are
>>>>>that high, nore can they tell who goes.
>>>>>
>>>>> But thank you for calling me ridiculous, it really encourages people
>>>>> to join the groups and go to the chapter meetings.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Debbie Wunder" <debbiewunder at centurytel.net>
>>>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 2:04 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You are being ridiculous! Where do you get your facts?
>>>>>> This trivia night issue has nothing to do with god, or opinions of
>>>>>> the blind.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
>>>>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 9:39 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I wasn't going to reply to this, but I have to say this
>>>>>>> its been my experience that churches and church groups do this, they
>>>>>>> do not want anyone with a disability around, they just want to tell
>>>>>>> us that if we pray harder we will have are sight back, and that we
>>>>>>> are evil, that is why we are blind.
>>>>>>> They say that 95% of us don't go to church, I don't know if the
>>>>>>> numbers are that high, but this is why.
>>>>>>> Most people that go to church and call them selves Christians are
>>>>>>> judgmental like that.
>>>>>>> I'm not saying don't go to church, nor am I trying to get a lintch
>>>>>>> mob after me, I'm just saying that is what I've noticed, that is why
>>>>>>> I never go, every church I have seen do not want blind people
>>>>>>> around.
>>>>>>> I'm not saying that is the case here, but it could be
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "MATTHEW SIEVERT" <msievert at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:33 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Group,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hope you are all well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I have observed is that many times people will want to "rebel"
>>>>>>> instead of
>>>>>>> remedy a situation through other means.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Equality for all will not take place over a period of one year or
>>>>>>> even ten
>>>>>>> years, but you can lay the foundation that other's can build upon.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Representing a group in a negative light will not win over
>>>>>>> supporters. It will
>>>>>>> bring attention to the issue, but you want people understand, not
>>>>>>> simply notice
>>>>>>> through a negative act.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some day we will have a blind/visually impaired astronaut. Until
>>>>>>> that time we as
>>>>>>> the NFB should do what we can to build upon our organization's
>>>>>>> achievements and
>>>>>>> represent our disabled community in a positive light.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Equality at trivia night's should be obtained, but like all
>>>>>>> challenges, it will
>>>>>>> take time and a calm intellect.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Matt Sievert
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>> From: fred olver <goodfolks at charter.net>
>>>>>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wed, October 26, 2011 7:41:12 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gary,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have read your comments several times and perhapse even lost some
>>>>>>> sleep
>>>>>>> over what I consider to be an afrontery to me and others who might
>>>>>>> wish to
>>>>>>> participate in an activity alongside individuals who are not limited
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> their vision.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me say first of all that a year ago I confronted this situation
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> explained to the individuals in charge that I felt wronged because
>>>>>>> half of
>>>>>>> the questions were undeciferable by myself. Okay, they didn't know I
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> going to be there. This year, however nearly a third of the
>>>>>>> questions were
>>>>>>> again undeciferable by a blind person. It is my feeling that if the
>>>>>>> folks in
>>>>>>> charge know that individuals will be participating who are unable to
>>>>>>> participate in a significant number of questions related to the
>>>>>>> activity
>>>>>>> that they not allow those questions. To me, the reasons ought to be
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> obvious. If you alienate a significant number of individuals you
>>>>>>> won't get
>>>>>>> them to come back next year. If you knowingly allow questions to be
>>>>>>> a part
>>>>>>> of an activity which you know will exclude individuals from
>>>>>>> participating
>>>>>>> then you are wrong to include them. If for example I only provide
>>>>>>> agenda's
>>>>>>> in Braille to individuals who don't read Braille then I am wrong to
>>>>>>> do so,
>>>>>>> because I have ignored their needs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bottom line, I'm feeling ignored. Next year, I think I'll find seven
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> individuals who can not make use of visual questions and attend the
>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>> fundraiser and practice a bit of civil disobedience.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fred Olver
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Gary Wunder" <GWunder at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>> To: "'NFB of Missouri Mailing List'" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 5:53 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Fred and the folks who have commented here. Please allow me to
>>>>>>>> interject
>>>>>>>> another perspective. I find this troublesome philosophically. When
>>>>>>>> I can
>>>>>>>> have access and am denied it because someone doesn't want to go to
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> trouble of making their software accessible, I'm up in arms. When
>>>>>>>> they use
>>>>>>>> artificial barriers such as possessing a driver's license when what
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> mean is that an employee has to get around, I'm bothered. When they
>>>>>>>> say I
>>>>>>>> have to be able to visually read print to take a job and I have a
>>>>>>>> machine
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> do it, I'm outraged.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How is the issue changed when we know of no way to make a process
>>>>>>>> 100
>>>>>>>> percent accessible? I don't want to deprive anyone of the beauty
>>>>>>>> found in
>>>>>>>> paintings or photography simply because I can't observe them. I
>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>> there are some cartoons that are so torturous to explain that by
>>>>>>>> the time
>>>>>>>> one finishes putting them into words, they are no longer funny.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mental challenges may be audible, visual, or they might even
>>>>>>>> involve other
>>>>>>>> senses such as taste or smell. If we look hard enough, we'll find
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>> have problems with one or more of these. So, in the areas where we
>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>> have true alternatives, should our request be that the thing we
>>>>>>>> cannot do
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> stricken from the activity? Would we have been wrong to run a clip
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> Henry
>>>>>>>> Kissinger saying "Piece is at hand," and asking the group to
>>>>>>>> identify the
>>>>>>>> man or what he was talking about or the year when he made the
>>>>>>>> utterance?
>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>> blind are at something of a disadvantage because we cannot see him.
>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>> deaf
>>>>>>>> are at a disadvantage because they cannot hear him. The young may
>>>>>>>> well be
>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>> a disadvantage because they weren't around when he made headlines
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> statement, much to the displeasure of his boss, the president of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> United
>>>>>>>> States. Take the same question, put it in print, and then decide if
>>>>>>>> it is
>>>>>>>> fair to the dyslexic who might have an easy time with the audio or
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> video
>>>>>>>> clip.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I Don't like being excluded, and if I am excluded enough, I'll find
>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>> activity. It hurts and seems unfair, but to me it doesn't rise to
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> level
>>>>>>>> of discrimination which, if I understand it, means something which
>>>>>>>> is both
>>>>>>>> unreasonable and detrimental. I don't think we can be critical of
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> using sight and acknowledging that it plays a major role in the way
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> find and even remember things. What we can and should make an
>>>>>>>> unequivocal
>>>>>>>> stand for are things which have nonvisual alternatives but which
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> ignored
>>>>>>>> to the detriment of our education and employment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I do not mean this as a real answer to the question of what should
>>>>>>>> I do,
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> as a thought process we go through when trying to decide when to
>>>>>>>> fight and
>>>>>>>> what we can reasonably fight for as blind people. I am not
>>>>>>>> targeting Fred
>>>>>>>> here but trying to engage in some discussion of a philosophical
>>>>>>>> principle
>>>>>>>> that I wrestle with at least two or three times per month. I
>>>>>>>> appreciate
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> question, even if I don't have anything like a good answer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>> Of fred olver
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 8:45 AM
>>>>>>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>>>>>>>> Subject: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A year ago, I attended a Trivia Night put on by a food pantry in
>>>>>>>> the St.
>>>>>>>> Louis area. This pantry is supported by my church along with
>>>>>>>> several
>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>> After the night's program was over, half of the categories being
>>>>>>>> visual in
>>>>>>>> nature so that a blind person could not participate in that portion
>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>> program I wrote an item for my churches news-letter and sent it on
>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>> director of the organization. In this item I pointed out that it
>>>>>>>> was not
>>>>>>>> fair or necessary to include only video-type questions and asked
>>>>>>>> that they
>>>>>>>> do, in the future consider having categories which were non-video
>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>> future. I received assurances from the director of the organization
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> indeed they would do this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Last Friday, I attended their Trivia Nighht again. True, only two
>>>>>>>> categories
>>>>>>>> of questions were video in nature, however these two categories
>>>>>>>> included
>>>>>>>> roughly 1/3 of the questions. Yesterday at a meeting of a church
>>>>>>>> committee
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> suggested that they with-hold two weeks worth of donations and that
>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>> donations go to another organization as a protest, the rest of the
>>>>>>>> committee
>>>>>>>> said no to this idea, sighting the possibility that a family might
>>>>>>>> have to
>>>>>>>> do without this food, I personally doubt it, and figure they're
>>>>>>>> just to
>>>>>>>> comfortable in their place and don't wish to because it doesn't
>>>>>>>> affect
>>>>>>>> them,
>>>>>>>> so what would you do if you were in my place? This really upsets
>>>>>>>> me,
>>>>>>>> especially since I had spoken to this organization a year ago and
>>>>>>>> they had
>>>>>>>> more or less agreed that this was not a good thing to have happen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fred Olver
>>>>>>>> http://www.dealingwithvisionloss.com For some of us it's a way of
>>>>>>>> life
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> for some of us it just makes life easier. Fred Olver
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Nfbmo:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
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>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Nfbmo:
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
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>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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