[Nfbmo] Barriers to Blind Employment

Mon Oct 8 01:51:59 UTC 2012

Hello, this does not sound like bragging to me, it sounds wonderful! Do you 
have plans to possibly get your license in the BEP?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brian Wekamp" <bjwekamp02 at embarqmail.com>
To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] Barriers to Blind Employment


> Hello Everyone:
>
> Reguarding my case I over the years have not had much work history.
>
> In February of 2010 I was hired by Karl Hirsch at the Capitol Building 
> Cafateria.
>
> This changed my life for the better; in the past I had a unsuccessful time 
> going through the rehab system thinking I knew more then anyone else.
>
> Because of bad choices in my Twenties and thirties I got into my comfort 
> zone and it was hard to get out of.
>
> With the job at the Cafateria I gained the confidence to do things I had 
> not done before.
>
> I learned to use a cash registor and make change  when the customers 
> bought something.
>
> As time went on I was given more duties and responsabilaties   like 
> counting down the cash registor at the beginning  and end of each day.
>
> Along with having more confidence my self esteem grew too.
>
> It was a good fealing at the end of the day that I did something 
> productive and got paid for it too.
>
> Having my job allowed me to do things I couldn't do just living on my 
> disability check;  one weekend I went down to St Louis to see a Cardinal 
> game and I could buy things that I would have to save for if I wasn't 
> working.
>
> I hope this doesn't sound like I am bragging on myself but if it can help 
> someone know they can get out of their comfort zone and exploreemployment 
> and find what skills they have and that they can contribute and make a 
> difference.
>
>
> Hth
>
>
> Brian Wekamp
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Fred Olver
> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 3:38 PM
> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] Barriers to Blind Employment
>
> Gary, thanks for your feedback. I have a question, though, how do these
> figures stack up when compared witht the actual figures of blind children
> being born? I realize from doing my own research how difficult it is to
> determine how many blind kids there are, however, I'm willing to bet that 
> if
> you look at the figures comparatively speaking that there are a lot fewer
> blind kids now say than there were even fifty years ago, and that the
> employment rate is actually higher because of the factors you sighted.
>
> Fred Olver
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Gary Wunder" <gwunder at earthlink.net>
> To: "'NFB of Missouri Mailing List'" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 2:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] Barriers to Blind Employment
>
>
> Good morning Fred. Thank you very much for your perspectives on 
> employment.
> I too am concerned about the fact that the 70% figure never seems to 
> change,
> but in fairness there are things happening in the world which would tend 
> to
> push the rate up as well as the technology you site that should push it
> down. It is widely agreed that many blind people today have multiple
> disabilities. Some of those offer so many physical constraints that what 
> we
> have considered necessary to employment may preclude them. Others have
> cognitive disabilities and this at a time when we are said to live in the
> information age. We have made a decision in this country to do away with
> what some have called the dirty jobs in favor of the brain jobs. This 
> being
> the case, people with cognitive disabilities will fare more poorly, 
> whether
> they have vision or not.
>
> I think you are correct when you site the educational system and the 
> failure
> to teach braille as a significant factor in unemployment. One cannot even 
> be
> a receptionist if he or she cannot write simple messages in a way that can
> be easily understood. Without some knowledge of spelling and punctuation,
> things many of us get from braille and from print, one might have lots of
> information in his head but have a hard time conveying it.
>
> Let me talk for a moment about whether the 70% figure is accurate or is
> simply used so much that it is taken as truth. Jim Nyman, the former
> director of the Nebraska agency for the blind, wrote an article for the
> Braille Monitor in which he took the 70% figure to task. A gentleman who
> presented at our national convention also believes the figure is greatly
> inflated and doubts that 70% of those who really want and can take jobs 
> are
> unemployed. You might listen to his presentation which is available on the
> NFB website under convention highlights. I summarized it a bit in the
> convention roundup, but I don't think I really did justice to what the man
> said. His name is Larry Temple, and I believe he employs our state 
> president
> in Texas.
>
> I really do appreciate everyone who has taken the time to make comments on
> this issue. I know that Jim and his fine committee are following what is
> being said. I hope that others will offer their perspectives. All of this 
> is
> intended to lead to some kind of program we can undertake to get more 
> blind
> people employed. There is little sense in discussing a problem unless we
> intend to find a solution. I remember attending a conference sponsored by
> the sociology department here at the University of Missouri to discuss the
> problems of aging. After two days of listening to problems, I went to the
> project director and asked when we planned to discuss solutions. In a
> paraphrase of what he said, I was startled to hear "accumulate lots of
> money, and pray for good health." I hope we can do better for employment
> than he was able to do for the problems of aging.
>
> Warmly,
>
> Gary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nfbmo [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Fred Olver
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 5:29 PM
> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] Barriers to Blind Employment
>
> I have not read all of the messages in this thread, however I feel it
> necessary to offer some perspective on this issue. First of all, now, for
> the last 40 or so years the NFB has used the figure of 70% as a factor of
> unemployment. The figure hasn't changed although technology has changed. I
> remember when the Apple 2E computers first came out, no change. I remember
> when T S I, Tele-Sensory Systems got a big contract withthe the government
> to provide some 600 modified systems at some undoubtedly huge price.
> Remember the Verssa-Braille, cassette storage of items at a cost of $6,000
> each, and that didn't even count the interfacing to conventional 
> computers.
> T S I got greedy and eventually went out of business because of it, yet 
> the
> 70% figure remained.
>
> In came Windows. The developers of talking software were caught by 
> surprise
> by the introduction of this software and it took a year or two for them to
> catch up. 70%. Now, we are still using Windows software for most computer
> systems in use by individuals and I have know idea what percentage of
> computer systems in use either on a Federal state or in private businesses
> are accessible I do remember though when I worked for the state of 
> Missouri,
> accessing their software was a struggle at best, I can only hope that 
> things
> have improved in the past several years. Yet the figure of 70% is yet
> bandied about, although some folks want to say that the figure has crept 
> up
> to 80 % because of the number of aging blind adults.
>
> Now, we have the Iphone and all that it has to offer. It won't change the
> rate of employment, but they sure are nice. Convenient, flexible, built-in
> talking software, accessible with bluetooth keyboards, braille displays 
> and
> ear buds, phones and FM transmitters. Still, what's that figure? 70%, 
> right.
>
> Seems to me what we need is some legislation to mandate that software
> developers be required to make their software accessible right off the
> shelf. It seems to me that Apple ought to say to software developers, hey,
> would you like to make your software accessible to blind and low vision
> persons? 70%, 70% 70%. I see job listings all the time, sent out by our
> wonderful rehabilitation Servvices for the Blind, but when I call about
> them, the answer, is, well, they probably aren't accessible, but you are
> welcome to try. The NFB in this state has had alot of influence on how
> services are offered, and by who, but, what are the actual percentages of
> individuals who are receiving servvices who are ultimately employed?
> Nationally, what has changed, technology, access, but not the rate of
> employment, and trust me, with the lack of use of Braille in the 
> educational
> system, this figure will only rise.
>
> Fred Olver
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Matt Sievert" <matt.sievert at gmail.com>
> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] Barriers to Blind Employment
>
>
> Gary simple answer
>
> I have never obtained a degree from a four year institution.
>
> My last degree was a high school diploma.
>
> I eventually found a task I could do for a living and here I am.
>
> I would rather be a cook though.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Gary Wunder" <gwunder at earthlink.net>
> Sender: "Nfbmo" <nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 14:16:49
> To: 'NFB of Missouri Mailing List'<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> Reply-To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] Barriers to Blind Employment
>
> Matt, thank you so much for writing about this issue and giving Jim and 
> his
> committee something to ponder. I like and agree with what you have said 
> and
> find it true in my life.
>
> One of the committee's biggest tasks will be to get the currently 
> unemployed
> to respond as well so we aren't just hearing from those who have seen the
> mountain and climbed it. Our examples need to be out here on the table, 
> but
> we need to make sure that our successes don't get in the way of seeing 
> real
> problems. In a phrase, your solution can be summed up as "get with it and
> pursue what you want." Again I agree with you, but is that all it takes 
> for
> a person to move from where they are to where we think they ought to be. I
> guess one of the questions that I've never seriously considered is whether
> people take advantage of rehabilitation services but have no real interest
> in employment. My assumption is always been that a contract is a contract
> and that no one would enter into it without intending to fulfill it. This
> may be naïve on my part.
>
>
>
> 's
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nfbmo [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Matt Sievert
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:16 PM
> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] Barriers to Blind Employment
>
> Group,
>
> My name is Matthew Sievert, and I am 41 years old and legally blind. I
> currently live in suburban Detroit working for a company writing computer
> applications for the auto industry.
>
> I want to address some of the points that Gary Wunder has mentioned in his
> email regarding "barrier's to blind employment".
>
>
> I have no experience with the first two issues which are as follows.
>
> 1. Lack of good training in assistive technology--there is more to using
> Jaws or WindowEyes than arrow and tab keys.
>
> 2. Some programs, internet or otherwise, will not talk, regardless ones
> level of competence with screen-reading software. This eliminates jobs 
> that
> capable blind people could do.
>
> Here is where I would like to begin my comments.
>
> 3. Some of us place restrictions on potential employment that we might not
> place on it were we not already receiving minimal incomes: I will not ride
> the bus an hour each way; I cannot move to a different city because this 
> is
> where my friends live; I do not want to live in a city, even though I know
> there are no jobs in my community and no transportation for me to get to
> another.
>
> My comments to number 3 are as follows.
> You don't want it enough. You need to have a goal. Perhaps a short-term
> goal. Do you want to live on your own and do what you want, when you want?
> If so, then effort and great sacrifices will need to take place. You will
> ride the bus for an hour. You will work for a very low wage. You will eat 
> a
> lot of ramen noodles and count quarters, hoping you have enough for 
> laundry.
> Eventually you will achieve your short-term goal. You will get work
> experience and find a better job. you will get a raise. You will get a
> better job. The new job will be closer to home. You will get more money, 
> and
> you will no longer dig around the change dish looking for one last quarter
> to dry your clothes. As far moving. If it means a better opportunity then 
> do
> it. Do it while your parent's are young. Eventually you will want to be
> closer to your relatives as they get older. So go exploring now. You can
> always come back home later.
>
> Next comment from Gary Wunder.
>
> 4. I am afraid. School I understand, but what would it be like to work in 
> an
> office and have to learn the location of things, learn the names of new
> people, and figure out how to make accommodations when something changes.
>
> My comments.
> This is called "life". Everyone else deals with this issue, you are not
> special.
> Change and exploration is awesome. School is a foundation. They give you
> some tools and send you on your way. It is up to you to follow your 
> desires
> and do what you want. Change and uncertainty is part of the journey, and 
> not
> an obstacle.
>
> Next comment from Gary Wunder
>
> 5. I am stuck where I am. It has been ten years since I had to get up in 
> the
> morning and meet a schedule. At one level I think I can do it, but at
> another I'm scaredd.
>
> My comments
> This is totally up to you. Look around you. Do you like what you see right
> now? if so then fine. If not, then start making notes and decide the small
> things you can change. From there you can build. What excites you? What
> makes you curious? Is there something you want to know? Even if it has
> nothing to do with your formal education or training. Go exploring. If you
> are single, then you answer to only yourself. Your parent's will love you
> regardless. But it is only your responsibility. You can start small and
> explore areas of interest. You don't need to do this all at once. A
> part-time job. A weekend conference. A meeting with someone who has common
> interests. It all starts with you deciding to do something different. Only
> if YOU REALLY want to.
>
> Here is Gary's final comment.
>
> 6. The earnings cliff means that, no matter how much I want to work,
> economically it just doesn't make sense.
>
> My comments
> Number six is the best one. Since I am single and I took care of this at a
> young age. I will not have the same perspective as someone who might have
> more medical issues or is at an older age, with that said.
>
> The day my part-time employer gave me a raise to the point where I could
> sustain myself month-to-month was the point where I was on my own. I 
> called
> social security and told them I had met my limit and no longer needed 
> their
> help. I went into the social security office and signed some papers and I
> stopped receiving monthly SSI checks. the audits continued for two years 
> as
> expected, and that didn't cause any issues.
>
> I was eating ramen noodle, taco bell, and using window fans instead of my
> air conditioner, but I was supporting myself.
>
> I took a part-time job up at Bass Pro Shops Corporate Headquarters. I 
> spent
> quite a bit of my paycheck on cab fare. I complained about the cost of the
> cab and so forth and a good friend said, "at least you have a job. this is
> only temporary, you will eventually get a raise and it won't be so bad."
> Six months later. I got a raise and also the bus route down Kearney was
> extended. So things got better.
>
> The longest job I have ever had was a minimum wage usher job at Missouri
> State University. I worked as an usher there for over sixteen years. That 
> is
> the BEST job I have ever had. I learned so much from that position. I
> learned how to interact with strangers. How to build confidence on what 
> you
> know. How to deal with change. I also learned how to be honest with
> yourself. I learned to ask questions, and I learned to listen to people.
> Simply stand there and listen to someone.
>
> This is not a story of success, because I am not there yet. I have had 
> many
> challenges, a lot of them self-inflicted. There have been many pity 
> parties,
> and some very awkward situations.
>
> I can tell you that this is hard. Every day is very hard. It is a 
> challenge
> to live, work and socialize in what is essentially a sighted world.
>
> Like I have said in the past to anyone who will listen. You have to 1. 
> Want
> whatever you desire. I mean really want it.
> 2. You have to work three to four times as hard as a sighted person to
> obtain the same goals 3. You have to have a plan of attack. It is a big ol
> chess game. Be ready for whatever comes next. Even if it is unexpected.
> 4. Money, Money goes a long ways to equalize. It buys you freedom. It gets
> you tech. It takes you places where sighted people can go with a lot less
> effort.
>
> I can go on and on and on, but the the hardest part of succeeding as a
> visually impaired adult, is overcoming the daily obstacles. The actual job
> for me is not my greatest challenge. Getting to work safely, getting to 
> the
> hardware store to buy improvement items, Having a social life, building a
> future family, and obtaining my dreams. Those are the really difficult
> things.
>
> One final note.
> A local Social Security case worker called me up a few years ago and told 
> me
> they think they underpaid me for a portion of the time I was on SSI.
> They wanted me to come down to their office and talk with them about
> reopening my case. I told them "no". They said, "not even if it means you
> might get more money?". My response was, "I have worked so hard to get to
> where I am now. There is no reason for me to go back to that part of my
> life." She seemed very taken aback and I wished her a good day.
>
> Thank you for your time and I wish everyone the best of luck. It is a 
> really
> really really hard journey, but the successes are really awesome.
>
> Matthew Sievert
>
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Gary Wunder <gwunder at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi Matt. I think this is what Jim wants--none of us are writing the
>> truth but trying to find it.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Nfbmo [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Matt
>> Sievert
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 3:56 PM
>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] Barriers to Blind Employment
>>
>> I have very strong feelings on 4,5,6.
>>
>> I will send my feelings and how I deal with them in another email.
>>
>> I will also make sure I indicate at the top of the email. So those who
>> don't want to, won't have to read very far before deciding to delete
>> the message.
>>
>> I don't mean to "push" my ideas on others. I just want to provide
>> observations on those areas.
>>
>> Matt
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Gary Wunder" <gwunder at earthlink.net>
>> Sender: "Nfbmo" <nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 15:30:56
>> To: 'NFB of Missouri Mailing List'<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>> Reply-To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] Barriers to Blind Employment
>>
>> Here are the things I've observed and heard. We need to get solid
>> information from those who are unemployed and not rely much on
>> second-hand accounts such as the one I am about to give.
>>
>> 1. Lack of good training in assistive technology--there is more to
>> using Jaws or WindowEyes than arrow and tab keys.
>>
>> 2. Some programs, internet or otherwise, will not talk, regardless
>> ones level of competence with screen-reading software. This eliminates
>> jobs that capable blind people could do.
>>
>> 3. Some of us place restrictions on potential employment that we might
>> not place on it were we not already receiving minimal incomes: I will
>> not ride the bus an hour each way; I cannot move to a different city
>> because this is where my friends live; I do not want to live in a
>> city, even though I know there are no jobs in my community and no
>> transportation for me to get to another.
>>
>> 4. I am afraid. School I understand, but what would it be like to work
>> in an office and have to learn the location of things, learn the names
>> of new people, and figure out how to make accommodations when
>> something changes.
>>
>> 5. I am stuck where I am. It has been ten years since I had to get up
>> in the morning and meet a schedule. At one level I think I can do it,
>> but at another I'm scaredd.
>>
>> 6. The earnings cliff means that, no matter how much I want to work,
>> economically it just doesn't make sense.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of James Moynihan
>> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 10:36 AM
>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>> Subject: [Nfbmo] Barriers to Blind Employment
>>
>> Fellow Federationists
>>
>> The rate of unemployment for the blind is between %70 and %80.  The
>> Employment Research Committee (ERC) is working on identifying the
>> barriers to employment of the blind and possible solutions.  Pleas
>> state the barriers that you believe contribute to blind unemployment
>> and possible solutions.
>> Your assistance in this matter is greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Cordially,
>>
>> Jim Moynihan
>>
>> ERC Chair
>> _______________________________________________
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