[Nfbmo] you and dog guides.

Bryan Schulz b.schulz at sbcglobal.net
Sat Oct 27 03:57:36 UTC 2012


hi,

it's easy, you ask your dog, do you see a trash can boy, and he says uh huh, 
right over there.

not exactly but the command is recognized.
Bryan Schulz

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brian Wekamp" <bjwekamp02 at embarqmail.com>
To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] you and dog guides.


Hello Everyone:

Since I have always been a Cane user how would a person who uses a Dog guide
find a trash can or locate a empty seat; like you all have said I use my
cane to locate things by reaching out with it and fealing whats there.


Tia


Brian Wekamp

-----Original Message----- 
From: Gene Coulter
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 3:30 PM
To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] you and dog guides.


Julie,
Bravo. I like what you said very much and Fred made some good points. If I
didn’t have other plans this weekend it would have fun to attend the
seminar.
Gene
From: Julie McGinnity
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 2:16 PM
To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] you and dog guides.

Hello Fred,

I would like to address some of the points you have made about using
dog guides.  For those of you who don't know, I have been a guide dog
user for over 4 years.  In no way does this make me an expert, but I
have experienced some of these things that Fred brings up.  Of course,
in many cases, I have experienced the contrary.

Yes, sometimes people don't want my dog in the car/house/whatever.  It
hasn't happened to me much, but when it does, not only do I offer to
bring a towel for her to lay on in the car, I groom her a little extra
that day.  It generally helps.  Some people are afraid of dogs, but in
my experience, most people calm down once they see that the dog is
working and won't bother them.  Yes, some of these things are
inconvenient.

My dog and I are a team.  I am proud of being a team.  I can read her
slightest movements, and she can sense my mood.  We know each other
very well.  It's a wonderful feeling to have this bond.

I would like to address your book now.  I agree completely that a
person needs to become proficient with a cane before applying for a
guide dog.  The schools acknowledge this fact as well.

I believe that it is personal preference whether or not you prefer a
cane or dog when navigating an environment.  I have actually found
that my orientation skills improved after I got a dog.  My mental
mapping skills have gotten better because instead of feeling every
little thing on the ground, I am able to concentrate on where I am
going in a different way.  If I want my dog to show me something, I
can usually manage to
make that happen.  Some people prefer to use the cane to find things
like chairs and trashcans because the cane will hit everything.  I
prefer the dog because I don't hit everything.  No tripping people, no
hitting every little crack in the sidewalk.

"concerning dogs, when I was learning to use a cane, I asked my
Mobility instructor whether or not I ought to consider getting a dog
guide? He said “no”, that my skills were good enough that I didn’t
need one. Turns out he was right."

I think it's very important to dispell the notion that guide dogs are
for those who are not proficient with canes.  Cane or dog is a choice.
I choose a dog because I prefer to travel with one, and you prefer a
cane because you prefer to travel with one.  There are many blind and
sighted people who believe that because I am a guide dog user, I do
not have good cane skills and cannot travel independently with and
without a dog.  I understand that there are those who would fall into
this catagory, but I believe it is wrong to assume that all guide dog
users cannot travel safely with a cane.  One of the goals of the
National Association of Guide dog Users is to advocate for the rights
of guide dog users.  I also think that one of the most important
things the organization should do is dispell these misconceptions and
generalizations about those of us who choose a guide dog as our
mobility tool.

Sorry for such a long email, and thank you for reading.
Julie
President, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users


On 10/26/12, Fred Olver <goodfolks at charter.net> wrote:
> So, we're having a seminar on dog guides? An interesting topic to say the
> least. I do wonder though, why we are not having a seminar on the use of
> I-devices, an item which offers more flexability and perhapse more options
> in terms of offering independence to a much larger segment of our
> population/group. Let me say first of all that dogs are wonderful animals.
> I
> have two of them as pets. They each weigh about 40 pounds and help me to
> get
> some much-needed exercise on a daily basis. I decided to write this piece
> because I am concerned from the perspective of a former dog-user about the
> whole concept of your using a dog as a guide for the first time if you are
> considering doing so. There are some things I personally think you need to
> know that you probably won't hear at the seminar this Saturday. First of
> all, there's a good chance that some of your friends won't want your dog
> in
> their car, especially if it's wet. Some folks just don't want to deal with
> the whole issue of dog-hair and unless you are able to sit in the front
> seat, there may not be enough room for your dog in the back, on the floor
> where it should be. Secondly, although it is against the law, there are
> some
> cab drivers who will be unwilling to transport you and your dog because of
> their religious beliefs. Third your dog isn't always going to relieve
> itself
> on cue. There may be times when your dog decides to take a dump in a mall
> or
> public building and you will need to clean it up. You will no longer be an
> individual. You will be a team, and chances are that Fourth, at some point
> people are going to walk up to you and speak to the dog first. Five,
> sometimes, people may even feed your dog, or your dog may pick up some
> food
> from the floor when you are in a restaurant. Six, people are going to want
> to pet your dog, and my experience tells me that although you might want
> to
> make lots of friends and a dog is a good way to do so, that if your dog is
> in harness you ought not let anyone pet your dog not ever, while it is
> working. If you do, once, than your dog may think it is okay for folks to
> do
> that on a regular basis and begin asking for attention without your even
> knowing it.
>
> Some folks feel that because they have dogs as guides that they ought to
> be
> entitled to reduced rates for shots and other services from their
> veterinarian. At one time there used to be a tax credit for folks who make
> use of a dog guide although aI don't know that is true at this time. Some
> schools may offer assistance to extremely ill dogs, however you should
> expect that if your dog gets hurt that you need to be responsible to pay
> the
> vet bills. In other words, if your dog gets hurt, you should not expect
> someone else to pick up the tab  just because you are blind.
>
> Some folks are going to be afraid of your dog, just because it is a dog.
> Your dog is not your child and should not be treated as such. It is a very
> loving animal, but it is also a tool which will allow you independence
> however if not handled properly it can become a burden, a miss-behaving
> child and more trouble than it is worth. Some people feel they must take
> their dog absolutely everywhere, some show more common sense and have
> determined that a baseball stadium or a bar are not good places for a dog.
> Make sure you use common sense when working your dog. Is it really
> necessary
> to inconvenience others so you can use your dog when you could give it a
> break and use your cane? After all, this whole independence thing, isn't
> it
> interdependence, and knowing when to allow yourself to rely on others at
> appropriate times? If you are going to make use of a dog guide, and I use
> this term because Guide Dogs is the name of an organization, you need to
> keep up your cane skills. You also need to let others feed your dog say
> once
> a week, and you need to give yourself time away from your dog, because if
> you don't, your dog may bond itself so much that it might not choose to
> eat
> when others attempt to give the dog it's dinner when you are away.
>
>
>
> Below is a piece from my book Dealing With Vision Loss which can be found
> at
> http://www.dealingwithvisionloss.com  some folks will disagree with what I
> have said and what is said below, it is after all my own opinion. What
> matters though here, is that if you are going to consider getting a dog
> for
> use as a guide that you understand as much as possible some of the
> ramifications of doing so. The good and the bad.
>
>
>
> YOU AND DOG GUIDES
>
> I just can’t tell you how many times I have been asked “how come you don’t
> have a seeing eye dog?” Well, there are lots of reasons, but the fact is,
> that most sighted people look at dog guides as “Wonder-dogs.” When in
> reality, if you don’t know how to get some place, how are you going to
> tell
> your dog to get you there? When you look at the list of resources in this
> book, you will not find any dog guide schools listed. There is a specific
> reason for that. Most schools which train people who are blind to make use
> of dog guides like those individuals to be proficient in use of a cane,
> FIRST. Consequently, whether you want to use a cane or not, if you are
> thinking about getting a dog you need to learn to use a cane first.
>
> My own experience has taught me that, while using a dog guide, my
> orientation skills, that is to say that my skills of “knowing where I was
> in
> relation to my environment” deteriorated. I was relying on my dog, as I
> was
> supposed to, so much, that I inadvertently became less aware of what was
> around me. Partly because I was not using my cane to be able to know that
> that trash can or bench was there, because my dog guide was taking me
> around
> it, as he was supposed to, but I found that when I didn’t have my dog with
> me that getting around, maintaining my orientation and being mobile was a
> much more difficult proposition than with a dog and that in order for me
> to
> be able to maintain my orientation skills that I needed to stop using a
> dog.
> Over the years, dog guide schools have modified their stand on using canes
> and dogs. Used to be when you would go to the school, they would take your
> cane away from you. Now, some schools encourage folks to use their canes
> in
> unfamiliar areas, or in order to help you to determine where you are in
> relation to objects around you. A footnote to these comments
>
> concerning dogs, when I was learning to use a cane, I asked my Mobility
> instructor whether or not I ought to consider getting a dog guide? He said
> “no”, that my skills were good enough that I didn’t need one. Turns out he
> was right.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbmo mailing list
> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfbmo:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie McG
Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
of Missouri recording secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John :316

_______________________________________________
Nfbmo mailing list
Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Nfbmo:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/escoulter%40centurytel.net
_______________________________________________
Nfbmo mailing list
Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Nfbmo:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/bjwekamp02%40embarqmail.com


_______________________________________________
Nfbmo mailing list
Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Nfbmo:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net 





More information about the NFBMO mailing list