[nfbwatlk] FW: [Wcb-l] News story from Kansas City, MO

[Mary ellen]

If the kid had hit somebody with a math book, the school would probably not
have taken away his math book.

Yes, blind people can be mobile without white canes or guide dogs.  If our
canes were irrelevant to our mobility, however, we would not have fought for
the right to keep them with us on airplanes.  Just because we are capable of
functioning without our canes doesn't mean that's an optimal way to
function.

The real issue is how to discipline a child effectively and appropriately.
I maintain that the problem is the child's behavior, not the tool the child
uses to misbehave.  There are more effective ways to teach a kid not to hit
another kid.

Giving a kid a pool noodle instead of a cane because it would keep him from
fidgeting is bizarre.  It indicates to me that the cane is perceived as
serving an inappropriate function.  If the child is using the cane to keep
from fidgeting, he isn't using it appropriately.

Mike, I completely understand and agree with your concern that objecting to
the way this situation was handled might be interpreted or lead to giving a
child a pass on bad behavior.  Though it may turn out that way, I don't
sense that any comments I've read support lower standards of behavior for
blind kids.  Many of us believe the punishment was both ineffective and
inappropriate.



-----Original Message-----
From: nfbwatlk [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike
Freeman via nfbwatlk
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 1:40 PM
To: nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nfbwatlk] FW: [Wcb-l] News story from Kansas City, MO

-----Original Message-----
From: Wcb-l [mailto:wcb-l-bounces at wcbinfo.org] On Behalf Of Mike Freeman
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 1:24 PM
To: 'Sarah E'; 'Holly Kaczmarski'; 'debby phillips'
Cc: Wcb-l at wcbinfo.org
Subject: Re: [Wcb-l] News story from Kansas City, MO

Sarah:

One of the reasons for organizations of the blind is to advance the notion
that different disabilities have differing needs and differing problems with
differing solutions. Hence, I view it as a false premise that how one
disability's problems should be treated must be *exactly* the same as the
way another disability's problems are treated. In fact, the cane is a
different sort of mobility aid than is a wheelchair. We seem to be making
the assumption that the child is immobile without the use of the cane. We
don't know that. We don't know what mobility goals are expressed in the
child's IEP or Section 504 Plan, both of which govern things. Remember, at
least during the school-day, a school or, in this instance, a school-bus, is
*not* a place of public accommodation in the same way as other public
accommodations are. Especially these days, different rules obtain for
schools and, hence, it is a matter for debate under what circumstances they
apply and to what extent. If the child was hitting someone with his cane, he
obviously wasn't using it as a valid mobility aid. And if he wasn't using
the tool properly, I maintain that our civil rights statutes do *not*
protect him.

This is different from an incident I recall in the early 1980's when the NFB
of California ran into a situation where a cop arrested a blind guy off the
streets because he had a folding cane in his back pocket that the cop
thought was a set of numchacks. Needless-to-say, the cop had egg on his face
when the facts of life were pointed out to him. I don't remember if the guy
sued but if he did, he would have won.

We probably will never know what the real circumstances surrounding the
Kansas incident were due to privacy concerns and unless the parents asked
ACB or NFB specifically for help, this is as it should be!

Mike Freeman


-----Original Message-----
From: Wcb-l [mailto:wcb-l-bounces at wcbinfo.org] On Behalf Of Sarah E
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 12:31 PM
To: Holly Kaczmarski; debby phillips
Cc: Wcb-l at wcbinfo.org
Subject: Re: [Wcb-l] News story from Kansas City, MO

Next, if little John Doe, runs over Jim Doe for teasing him about his
wheelchair, and hurts Jimmy's little foot, he should have his chair taken? 
If Fred makes his hearing aide squeak accidentally, why, teach, let's take
his ears away from him.  That's my problem, here.  Does any of the
nay-sayers, see the logic flaw?  Equal Rights.  If it wouldn't work for one,

it won't work for all.  What saddens me, is I know someone's going to see
this email, and agree that the chair or the hearing device should be taken.
It has taken me years to recover from humiliations just like this.  But, I
will grieve for the human race, in peace.
Merry Christmas!
Sarah Edick-Howe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Holly Kaczmarski" <holly.b.kaczmarski at gmail.com>
To: "debby phillips" <semisweetdebby at gmail.com>
Cc: <Wcb-l at wcbinfo.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Wcb-l] News story from Kansas City, MO


> Debby,
>
> I agree that society has become way too lenient for children who 
> misbehave

> but I still do not think the cane should have been removed.
>
> There must have been another way.
>
> Does this child have other issues that caused him to misbehave? If so 
> those should be addressed and the parents should be aware of his 
> misbehavior and try to stop it if possible.
>
> Holly
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
>
> Debby Phillips <semisweetdebby at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>No Holly, what we are saying is that if this kid hit someone on 
>>purpose with his cane then the consequence should be no cane.
>>It's not forever, and I bet he would be far more careful about NOT 
>>hitting people.  When there are no consequences, or the consequences 
>>don't fit the action, then it sends a message that way too many blind 
>>people have received throughout their lives, and that is that they 
>>aren't expected to behave.  They can get away with stuff because 
>>they're blind.  We need to have just as high of expectations of blind 
>>kids as we do sighted kids.  But oh
>>wait! This is the permissive 21st century.     Debby
>


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