[nfbwatlk] Another device to help us "see"

Wed Jun 24 17:48:16 UTC 2015

Good morning, I can say about echo location, is the deaf blind can’t use it. Since it is a meaningless idea for us. One of the two established method works best for us. Just my two cents worth. Cheers Maurice.
> On Jun 22, 2015, at 7:04 PM, Kaye Kipp via nfbwatlk <nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Well, I won't touch it with a ten-foot pole.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbwatlk [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike
> Freeman via nfbwatlk
> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 10:56 AM
> To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
> Cc: Mike Freeman
> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Another device to help us "see"
> 
> Better not have the robo-guide dog be wifi-enabled or it could be hacked
> and/or who knows what information could be gathered about you. I realize I
> am in the minority within the blindness community but I can't believe all
> the enthusiasm, nonsense and drivel that blind persons are putting out about
> the Be My Eyes iPhone app! Frankly, I largely think the app is just an
> excuse for not planning, e.g., labeling your spices or medicines, but even
> worse, the enthusiasts don't seem to have any idea that the "volunteers" who
> are reading the video might not have the blind users' best interest at heart
> and if information gleaned from helping the blind persons was misused or a
> crime committed, very little could be done about it since all the volunteers
> aren't citizens of the U.S. or Canada!
> 
> In other words, I'm aghast! And no one seems to grock the implications!
> 
> Mike Freeman
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbwatlk [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary ellen
> via nfbwatlk
> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 10:28 AM
> To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
> Cc: Mary ellen
> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Another device to help us "see"
> 
> I agree that clicking is a very useful means of gathering information.  For
> some unaccountable reason, it's been bandied about that NFB is opposed.  I
> know there are some individuals who are uncomfortable making clicking sounds
> because it makes them feel conspicuous.  As if carrying around five feet of
> carbon fiber doesn't set us apart!  NFB is opposed to some of the
> sensational press about clicking, particularly when it's implied that
> there's no need for a cane anymore.  Daniel Kisch, the person whose name is
> most often associated with clicking, is adamant about the importance of the
> cane (or the dog) and is as unhappy about some of the sensationalized
> publicity as we are.  We have enough real areas of disagreement with others
> in the blindness system without creating fake controversy.
> 
> I think the tongue stimulator really will end up belonging on the wall next
> to the toilet for the blind, though.  How does one speak with a lollypop
> sized device in one's mouth?  I would think that, after a significant amount
> of time feeling those sensations, the sense of taste would be interfered
> with.  I'm not in favor of anything that interferes with the enjoyment of
> food, though perhaps I wouldn't need to be in the process of losing weight
> if something had! Grin!
> 
> Ariel, you make an extremely good point.  If we could develop a reliable
> hands free travel aid, I'd ditch my cane in an instant!  I'm proud of all
> the cane signifies, but I'd appreciate having two arms for carrying things.
> Twenty years ago someone approached me about the development of an
> electronic guide dog.  Its purpose would be to avoid obstacles and warn of
> changes in terrain such as curbs and drop-offs.  I have very sluggish
> reflexes; that means I walk rather slowly because I need a little extra time
> to react when my cane gives me information.  One of the things I liked best
> about working with my guide dog Mozu was that I could pick up the pace.  The
> part I didn't like was the need to figure out what she was thinking and why
> she did some of the things she did.  A guide bot would be very stupid and
> its logic would be easy to follow.  It wouldn't have the lovable
> characteristics of a dog, so I doubt it would decrease the interest in
> having dogs as guides.  It would be an interesting alternative to try.  Make
> it hands free and I'm applying to be a beta tester! 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbwatlk [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Becky
> Frankeberger via nfbwatlk
> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 8:19 AM
> To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
> Cc: Becky Frankeberger
> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Another device to help us "see"
> 
> Don't forget the facial recognition cane. Wall of shame, giggle, I love the
> idea. But just make sure it is really useless to the blind, please. 
> Something came from the Federation negative about Flash Sonar, aka, tongue
> clicks. This has been a useful tool for the blind for ages. You try playing
> basketball with a cane, yet those well versed in Flash Sonar can really
> play, smile. So make sure the wall of shame has actual useless devices. Say
> narrow it to electronic or real tangible devices, like the toilet designed
> for the blind President Maher mentioned at National Convention a zillion
> years ago.
> 
> Becky and her four on the floor Jake
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbwatlk [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary ellen
> via nfbwatlk
> Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2015 8:14 PM
> To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
> Cc: Mary ellen
> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Another device to help us "see"
> 
> I think we should create a "Wall of Shame" where these devices could be
> displayed.  There's the Sonicguide, the Mowat Sensor, the Stereotoner, and
> ,oh so many more!
> 
> Some devices that originally seemed useless have proven to have some
> benefits, but the underlying premise that technology can cause our other
> senses to somehow mimic sight is a flawed concept.
> 
> The Sonicguide gave information about surrounding objects, but the info
> wasn't much better than the echo given back by a cane or a soft tongue
> click.  In fact, it was worse, because it was so loud and intrusive that it
> masked the subtle sounds that we use all the time.
> 
> I believe scientists who develop these things start with the premise that,
> without sight, we are totally ignorant of our surroundings and need
> artificially created and unnecessarily amplified sensory replacement
> mechanisms.
> 
> I don't know what to say to reporters who pass along this stuff
> uncritically.  How do you tell them that our environmental knowledge is so
> much richer than they believe?
> 
> Good luck, Marci.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbwatlk [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marci
> Carpenter via nfbwatlk
> Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2015 6:01 PM
> To: NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List
> Cc: Marci Carpenter
> Subject: [nfbwatlk] Another device to help us "see"
> 
> Here is an article from the June 18 issue of the Washington Post. I missed
> it on Newsline but saw a Facebook post about it today from an NFB member. I
> groaned at the time. Then I saw a KIN5 news story about it tonight. Of
> course they pretty much read the story word for word. I will call them
> tomorrow. I would appreciate your thoughts about what I might say and how
> you all feel about this.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/06/18/fda-approves
> -device-to-help-blind-people-see-by-using-their-tongues/
> <http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/06/18/fda-approve
> s-device-to-help-blind-people-see-by-using-their-tongues/>
> 
> Marci
> 
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maurice mines
kd0iko at icloud.com