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<DIV>I am not sure you would use these arguments if you had a blind child who was at the bottom of the class, struggling and unable to meet his potential due to the poor instructional skills of his <SPAN>TVI</SPAN><BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Brush Script MT'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 18pt"><FONT color=#4040ff> Denise </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV>Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D. <BR>Coordinator for Blind/VI students at ESD105<BR>Teacher of the Blind & Visually Impaired<BR>509-969-3622</DIV><BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 6/7/10, Sheila Amato <I><brltrans@verizon.net></I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Sheila Amato <brltrans@verizon.net><BR>Subject: Re: [Pibe-division] Comment<BR>To: "Professionals in Blindness Education Division List" <pibe-division@nfbnet.org><BR>Date: Monday, June 7, 2010, 10:42 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv1851077167>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Hi, Denise - ay, we can be bad in so many ways... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>We can have poor communication skills and not accurately convey the scope of our - or our students' needs.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>We can have poor skills in transcribing braille</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>We can have poor skills in teaching braille... which (as we all know) is not necessarily related to transcribing braille</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>We can have poor social skills</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>We can have poor mobility skills</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Of course you realize I'm speaking tongue in cheek. What I am trying to convey is that just as each of our students is an individual... with unique talents and areas in need of further development, so are teachers.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I consider myself a rather proficient braille transcriber, but I will also admit that I have a colleague who is a much better teacher (introducing braille skills to little ones) than I am. However, she would panic if she had to transcribe geometry, while I sink my teeth in and grin.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>This is one unique thing about OUR field that regular educators - or even special educators - don't have to deal with. We teach kids:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>from birth to 21 - or older</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>those who are blind (adventitiously or congenitally)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>those who have varying degrees of low vision (adventitiously or congenitally)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>those with vision loss and multiple disabilities</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>in any combination of the above, and in multiple settings on a daily basis.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I don't know any one individual who can do it ALL to a high level of proficiency. I do know many who are in there every day doing the best they can with limited resources and lack of support from the educational system as well as the parents and doctors. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>We tend to hear about the problem teachers. They make the daily news and people are outraged. We do ourselves a disservice as a field for not sharing news publicly about the teachers who are considered to be excellent - by virtue of their student's outstanding achievements. Even without data (but with common sense, perhaps) I'm willing to bet the good apples in our field highly outnumber the bad ones. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>The REAL problem is... what are we all going to do to help the teachers with less-than-proficient skills reach for the stars and gain the proficiency they need to have, what are we going to do to "fix" a system of education that is broken, and how can we assure that students who graduate from teacher training programs do so with a set of skills and knowledge that meet national criteria.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Sheila</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><B>From:</B> <A title="mailto:dmehlenbacher@yahoo.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dmehlenbacher@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:dmehlenbacher@yahoo.com">Dr. Denise M. Robinson</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 07, 2010 10:15 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title="mailto:pibe-division@nfbnet.org
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division@nfbnet.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:pibe-division@nfbnet.org">Professionals in Blindness Education Division List</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Pibe-division] Comment</DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<TD vAlign=top>The REALLY bad thing about the content of these comments is we have the teachers with poor skills telling the administration all the incorrect information--which they believe, hence the lack of instruction and poor instruction continues.<BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Brush Script MT'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 18pt"><FONT color=#4040ff> Denise </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Brush Script MT'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 18pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV>Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D. <BR>Coordinator for Blind/VI students at ESD105<BR>Teacher of the Blind & Visually Impaired<BR>509-969-3622</DIV><BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 6/7/10, Kirsten Peterson <I><kpeterson@perandoe.org></I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Kirsten Peterson <kpeterson@perandoe.org><BR>Subject: Re: [Pibe-division] Comment<BR>To: "Professionals in Blindness Education Division List" <pibe-division@nfbnet.org><BR>Date: Monday, June 7, 2010, 5:13 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv729690235>
<DIV>I couldn't agree with you more Denise! Thanks for standing up and making the point that clearly needs to be made over and over again. It amazes me how many school districts and teachers..special ed teachers included..think of Braille instruction as an extra to occur when time allows, rather than as an absolute necessity! </DIV>
<DIV>Kirsten <BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Allison Hilliker (NFBA) <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nfbarizona@gmail.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank>nfbarizona@gmail.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
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<DIV><FONT size=2>Well said, Denise! I'm glad we have teachers out there like you who are spreading such Braille-positive messages.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=2>It continuously amazes me how seldom common sense is applied when many people teach blind kids. Concepts that are widely accepted as educational must-haves, like teachers proficient in the material they teach, are considered novelties or low priorities for blind kids. </FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=2>Allison</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>From:</B> <A title=dmehlenbacher@yahoo.com href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dmehlenbacher@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank>Dr. Denise M. Robinson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pibe-division@nfbnet.org href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division@nfbnet.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank>Professionals in Blindness Education Division List</A> </DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, June 06, 2010 10:13 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Pibe-division] Comment</DIV>
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<DIV>Poor teacher skills ARE directly related to poor student outcomes. I have seen it over and over for the past 20 years as anyone else has in the field who has good skills and see their students exel and others who do not because of the teacher who is teaching them with poor skills. </DIV>
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<DIV>You cannot teach what you do not know and students cannot learn what you cannot teach them. You do not need formal research to know this, though it would not be a bad idea to finally put such a foolish notion to rest. But how many teachers with poor skills are going to stand up and say "yes, please test me and show me how poor my skills are and test my students to show everyone how far behind they are compared to a teacher with good skills." <BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 18pt"><FONT color=#4040ff> Denise </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 18pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV>Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D. <BR>Coordinator for Blind/VI students at ESD105<BR>Teacher of the Blind & Visually Impaired<BR>509-969-3622</DIV><BR><BR>--- On <B>Sun, 6/6/10, Carrie Gilmer <I><<A href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=carrie.gilmer@gmail.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank>carrie.gilmer@gmail.com</A>></I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Carrie Gilmer <<A href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=carrie.gilmer@gmail.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank>carrie.gilmer@gmail.com</A>><BR>Subject: Re: [Pibe-division] Comment<BR>To: "'Professionals in Blindness Education Division List'" <<A href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division@nfbnet.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank>pibe-division@nfbnet.org</A>><BR>Date: Sunday, June 6, 2010, 4:12 PM<BR><BR>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Right on Denise, exactly dead on right on. Thank you for not being frustrated, bothered and angry in silence. Carrie</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division-bounces@nfbnet.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank>pibe-division-bounces@nfbnet.org</A> [mailto:<A href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division-bounces@nfbnet.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank>pibe-division-bounces@nfbnet.org</A>] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Denise Mackenstadt<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:07 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <A href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division@nfbnet.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank>pibe-division@nfbnet.org</A><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [Pibe-division]
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Recently on AERnet I noticed a post that bothered me. I have responded and I am sending this response to the PIBE list. Every time I think that we are making progress something like this comment is used to justify not providing for the needs of blind kids. Here is the post and my response:</SPAN></FONT>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=1 face=Monaco><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Monaco; FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">Recently in response to a question posted by Sheila one of the posts stated "Weaknesses: 1. still no published research proving or disproving that poor teacher braille skills are responsible for poor braille outcomes for students. Nevertheless, we've gone full steam ahead addressing a "problem" that may not exist. Assertions by advocacy groups are not evidence, nor are gut hunches. We need DATA. And thus far no data exists." I find it astonishing that an assertion is being made that teacher competency in an essential skill to be taught to students is not relevant to student outcomes. Lack of Data cannot take the place of common sense or best practice. I cannot think of another subject area, for example: Language Arts, Math, Science or Art, where a decent state licensing entity will not
expect an instructor to demonstrate competence. As a parent I would be very concerned if my child's English teacher could not read or write English. Let us not throw out critical thinking as an alternative to non-existent DATA Collection. I do not want to say that legitimate research and legitimate data results are not beneficial to best practices. But let us not sacrifice common sense to the altar of statistics. </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Denise Mackenstadt, NOMC</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Mackenstadt Rehab Services</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Pibe-division mailing list<BR><A href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Pibe-division@nfbnet.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank>Pibe-division@nfbnet.org</A><BR><A href="http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/pibe-division_nfbnet.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/pibe-division_nfbnet.org</A><BR>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Pibe-division:<BR><A href="http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/pibe-division_nfbnet.org/kpeterson%40perandoe.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/pibe-division_nfbnet.org/kpeterson%40perandoe.org</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Kirsten M. Peterson, M.S.Ed. <BR>Teacher of Students with Visual Impairments<BR>Perandoe Special Education District<BR>1525 Locust <BR>Red Bud, IL 62278<BR>(618) 282-6251 ext.
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