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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I'm not Allison, but let me grab this opportunity
to agree with you. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Technology is obsolete when we take it out of the
box. When I did my teacher training, the Braille 'n Speak was not yet an item
for our students. Now I find myself trying to teach an 11 year old how to
download books and access email and the Internet on his BrailleNote. It's a
noble goal, but when I opened the box that contained the BrailleNote, that was
the first time I had ever touched one. And now I have to teach it. Thank
goodness for some excellent online tutorials, youtube videos and local reps who
answered my every call and even came to do a 3-hour training sessions with us.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Technology changes so fast that neither schools nor
university programs can keep up with hands-on training. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Over the last decade, I have twice participated in
BNAT training in Baltimore at the NFB headquarters. (BNAT = Braille Nonvisual
Access Technology). It was one of the best inservice training sessions I have
ever attended in our field. When I was teaching a braille course at one of my
colleges, we invited one of the trainers to come to do a one-day intensive
session with our students. The NFB's International Braille Research Center
is one of the most comprehensive sites I have ever visited with respect to
different types of technology, and the staff are knowledgeable in all of it. I
had once asked NFB about the potential for their creating a "traveling road
show" of technology that they could bring or ship to college training programs
for the purpose of doing a "weekend with the expert." </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Yep, just as sighted kids need to be able to access
the Internet to do research, or communicate with their peers, or prepare
Powerpoint presentations, so do our kids. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Sheila</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=dmehlenbacher@yahoo.com
href="mailto:dmehlenbacher@yahoo.com">Dr. Denise M. Robinson</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 09, 2010 10:06 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A
title="mailto:pibe-division@nfbnet.org
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:pibe-division@nfbnet.org">Professionals in Blindness Education
Division List</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Pibe-division] Comment</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
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<DIV>Allison,</DIV>
<DIV>To add to your comment, there are technology standards in the school
for sighted students. If sighted students are learning it, then our blind
students need to be learning it. Assistive tech training is given to
TVIs in college, just not enough, but it is up to them to perfect it for
their students. So the students coming to the TVI it is up to the TVI
to assist them in their learning. Blind students must learn
technology if they are going to compete with the sighted world. That does
fall to the TVI to teach. Somehow, districts need to be hiring at least 1
TVI to help the TVIs who do not know the tech yet, but all should be
braille cert and in the process of learning the technology. Admins just
need to know it takes a team of people to help each other to help the
student reach their goals as well as help each other reach all blind
skills to assist their students---it is a big ball of wax---you have
nemeth, all the tech, braille, abacus, etc</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It needs to start at the college level to teach the skills, then on
going classes to continue to help the TVI keep up with needed skills to
teach students--of course educating the administration also and society on
the potential of blind students if they have all this and then everyone
work together to make sure it happens<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Brush Script MT'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 18pt"><FONT
color=#4040ff> Denise
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Brush Script MT'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 18pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV>Denise M. Robinson, <SPAN>TVI</SPAN>, Ph.D. <BR>Coordinator for
Blind/VI students at ESD105<BR>Teacher of the Blind & Visually
Impaired<BR>509-969-3622</DIV><BR><BR>--- On <B>Wed, 6/9/10, Allison
Hilliker (NFBA) <I><nfbarizona@gmail.com></I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From:
Allison Hilliker (NFBA) <nfbarizona@gmail.com><BR>Subject: Re:
[Pibe-division] Comment<BR>To: "Professionals in Blindness Education
Division List" <pibe-division@nfbnet.org><BR>Date: Wednesday, June
9, 2010, 2:53 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV class=plainMail><BR><BR>Hi Sheila and others,<BR><BR>I'm not
Arielle, and therefore not as informed about academic research, but<BR>I
had some thoughts on your below message.<BR><BR>Sheila
wrote:<BR>"...quantifying teacher competence in assistive technology.
Should our<BR>> teachers be required to demonstrate competence in
areas over and above what regular education teachers do?"<BR><BR>I think
the difference between requiring Braille competency verses
assistive<BR>tech competency is that Braille can be equated to sighted
children's reading<BR>and writing. We already require all teachers
to be proficient print readers<BR>and writers, so it makes sense that we
require teachers of blind kids to be<BR>proficient in blind students
reading and writing, AKA Braille.<BR><BR>While assistive technology is a
very useful skill to have, technology<BR>proficiency isn't a requirement
for teachers of sighted students. Reading<BR>and writing
are. To me, that makes all the difference.<BR><BR>This equating
print literacy to Braille literacy is a common trend among<BR>folks in
the NFB, but for some reason I don't usually see it catching
on<BR>outside of the organization. I'm not sure why that is or
what we can do<BR>about it. But it's definitely something worth
working on.<BR><BR>Allison<BR><BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message -----
From: "Sheila Amato" <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=brltrans@verizon.net"
ymailto="mailto:brltrans@verizon.net">brltrans@verizon.net</A>><BR>To:
"Professionals in Blindness Education Division List"<BR><<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division@nfbnet.org"
ymailto="mailto:pibe-division@nfbnet.org">pibe-division@nfbnet.org</A>><BR>Sent:
Tuesday, June 08, 2010 3:25 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [Pibe-division]
Comment<BR><BR><BR>> Arielle, I'm going to do a bit of cut and paste
here, and intersperse my comments below.<BR>> <BR>> I don't see
any good reason why these data can't be collected and these results
can't be written up, reviewed and published in a rigorous
manner.<BR>> I agree!<BR>> <BR>> There are plenty of
instruments out there to assess educational outcomes in blind
children,<BR>> I sorta disagree here... we don't have a plethora of
instruments that are normed on our population of students. Which
instruments were you referring to? Assessment is not one of my strong
areas. I'd love to know what your list of instruments would
include.<BR>> <BR>> and plenty of ways to quantify teacher
competency as well.<BR>> I disagree here. We have one test, the NCLB,
to quantify teacher competence at an entry level in the production (not
the teaching) of the literary braille code. I'm heartened that we have
that much, but we need more. What about Nemeth code? music? foreign
language, and teaching these codes? what about quantifying teacher
competence in assistive technology. Should our teachers be required to
demonstrate competence in areas over and above what regular education
teachers do? (hey, would we get paid more if we did so?) Many states
have TVI certification exams, but not all do. Some of them even contain
braille components, but not all do. Some even contain Nemeth components
but not all do. Some states don't even have a certification to teach
kids who are blind... a generic special education teacher can do it.
Where do we start to make reforms?<BR>> <BR>> If we lived in a
perfect world, what would be your research questions? We shouldn't start
off in the middle... I think most folks can agree with the first
statement above. So, what would be your research questions that need
answers? Maybe we can all participate and figure out where to
start.<BR>> <BR>> Sheila<BR>> <BR>>
--------------------------------------------------<BR>> From:
"Arielle Silverman" <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nabs.president@gmail.com"
ymailto="mailto:nabs.president@gmail.com">nabs.president@gmail.com</A>><BR>>
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 12:40 AM<BR>> To: "Professionals in
Blindness Education Division List" <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division@nfbnet.org"
ymailto="mailto:pibe-division@nfbnet.org">pibe-division@nfbnet.org</A>><BR>>
Subject: Re: [Pibe-division] Comment<BR>> <BR>>> Hi
all,<BR>>> <BR>>> Let me first say that I echo the outrage
and frustration that others<BR>>> have voiced at the utter lack of
common sense that is employed when<BR>>> developing teaching
methods for blind kids. Of course teachers who are<BR>>> competent
in Braille are going to have more successful teaching<BR>>>
outcomes than those who are not. As someone who has been blind all
my<BR>>> life I am all too familiar with the general lack of basic
logic that<BR>>> is so often used when designing policies or
strategies for working<BR>>> with blind people, and I am aware
that unjustified negative attitudes<BR>>> can motivate many of
these departures from common sense.<BR>>> <BR>>> However, I
am equally outraged and frustrated by the fact that solid<BR>>>
data linking teaching competence to good learning outcomes are
still<BR>>> nonexistent, and are allowed to remain
nonexistent. I am a graduate<BR>>> student pursuing my doctorate
in experimental social psychology, a<BR>>> discipline heavily
dependent on quantitative data collection. While I<BR>>> know I
still have a lot to learn about empirical research, I don't
see<BR>>> any good reason why these data can't be collected and
these results<BR>>> can't be written up, reviewed and published in
a rigorous manner.<BR>>> There are plenty of instruments out there
to assess educational<BR>>> outcomes in blind children, and plenty
of ways to quantify teacher<BR>>> competency as well. It's true
that perhaps only the better teachers<BR>>> would be willing to
participate in this research, to an extent, but<BR>>> still there
is going to be variability in teachers' level of Braille<BR>>>
proficiency as well as variability in students' success and one
can<BR>>> easily measure the correlation between these two
factors, and how<BR>>> teachers' competencies affect student
progress over time, perhaps over<BR>>> many years. It's true that
we can't randomly assign kids to get either<BR>>> good or bad
teachers and then measure their outcomes, for obvious<BR>>>
reasons. But today's statistical methods permit us to control
for<BR>>> extraneous factors and evaluate change over time, and to
test the<BR>>> effectiveness of specific interventions. I am
confident that if<BR>>> researchers ask the right questions and
use the right tools, we can<BR>>> acquire data that will lend
undeniable support to the truth we already<BR>>> know. I am
disappointed that the lack of data is being used by<BR>>>
proponents of the status quo as a reason for stagnation, while
those<BR>>> of us who are progressive-minded struggle to dismiss
the value of the<BR>>> data instead of going out and collecting it
ourselves. Without data we<BR>>> are stuck in a battle of rhetoric
which neither side can conclusively<BR>>> win, and our students
and future students are paying the price.<BR>>> <BR>>> I
intend to become part of the solution to this problem, although
I<BR>>> haven't figured out exactly how to go about it at this
point. I would<BR>>> be curious to hear the responses of those of
you who have experience<BR>>> working in the field. Perhaps these
studies have already been<BR>>> conducted? If not, how can we
change that?<BR>>> <BR>>> Arielle<BR>>> <BR>>>
On 6/8/10, Sheila Amato <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=brltrans@verizon.net"
ymailto="mailto:brltrans@verizon.net">brltrans@verizon.net</A>>
wrote:<BR>>>> Hi, Denise - In such a situation, my first
(knee-jerk) response would be to<BR>>>> try to find out WHY the
kid is struggling. There are many factors that could<BR>>>>
come into play, such as a learning disability, not enough instructional
time<BR>>>> in the expanded core curriculum, the need for PT or
OT, etc. I would like to<BR>>>> see a functional vision
assessment done, and a learning media assessment<BR>>>> done. I
would request an assistive technology assessment. I would use
the<BR>>>> Michigan Severity Rating Scale to document the
services that should be<BR>>>> provided. I would bring all the
data generated by these assessments to a<BR>>>> team meeting
and lay it out and say that this is what the kid needs in
the<BR>>>> way of materials and in instruction. Now, who can
provide this for the<BR>>>> child?<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> As a TVI, I have said outright to administrators that I
am not the best<BR>>>> qualified person to teach a specific
piece of (brand new) technology... I<BR>>>> had never used it
before. So, I asked for - and received - training in how<BR>>>>
to use it... and mentorship support. True, I had to do the legwork and
find<BR>>>> my own trainer (after all, this is my world, and I
hope I have more networks<BR>>>> than a public school
administrator in the blindness world), but they were<BR>>>>
willing to support my need... so I could support my
student's.<BR>>>> <BR>>>> As a TVI in the trenches
(for another 3 weeks... and then I'm a retired TVI<BR>>>> after
38 years of teaching), it's not my place to evaluate the skills
(or<BR>>>> lack thereof) of my colleagues. That is where the
administration and the<BR>>>> parents need to step up to the
plate. Yes, sigh, I've seen and heard stories<BR>>>> of too
many incompetent teachers - just as you have. I think I'm
always<BR>>>> going to be the eternal optimist and try to find
a way to fix a situation<BR>>>> through mentorship and
networking. If they're there in the teaching<BR>>>> position,
I'm going to try to help them get better each day. We don't
have<BR>>>> any other pool to draw from.<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> Do you know of any more recent data than this... there
are about 40<BR>>>> teacher-training programs in the country.
Collectively, they graduate about<BR>>>> 250 TVIs a year. I
would guess this data is about 8-10 years old, but based<BR>>>>
on the number of graduate students in my braille courses, I get 7 or 8
or 9<BR>>>> a year. In the past few years, I've run
approximately a 50% failure rate in<BR>>>> my university
braille courses (I teach 5 of them). So, I guess that
sparks<BR>>>> more questions than it does answers. I probably
had 15 students pass braille<BR>>>> this past year out of 30
something who enrolled.<BR>>>> <BR>>>> I'm really
enjoying this dialogue...<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Sheila<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>> From: Dr. Denise M.
Robinson<BR>>>> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 8:03
PM<BR>>>> To: Professionals in Blindness Education Division
List<BR>>>> Subject: Re: [Pibe-division]
Comment<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Sheila<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
I am not sure you would use these arguments if you had
a blind child<BR>>>> who was at the bottom of the class,
struggling and unable to meet his<BR>>>> potential due to the
poor instructional skills of his TVI<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
Denise<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D.<BR>>>>
Coordinator for Blind/VI students at
ESD105<BR>>>> Teacher of the
Blind & Visually Impaired<BR>>>>
509-969-3622<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>> --- On Mon, 6/7/10,
Sheila Amato <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=brltrans@verizon.net"
ymailto="mailto:brltrans@verizon.net">brltrans@verizon.net</A>>
wrote:<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
From: Sheila Amato <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=brltrans@verizon.net"
ymailto="mailto:brltrans@verizon.net">brltrans@verizon.net</A>><BR>>>>
Subject: Re: [Pibe-division]
Comment<BR>>>> To:
"Professionals in Blindness Education Division List"<BR>>>>
<<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division@nfbnet.org"
ymailto="mailto:pibe-division@nfbnet.org">pibe-division@nfbnet.org</A>><BR>>>>
Date: Monday, June 7, 2010, 10:42
PM<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Hi, Denise - ay, we can be bad in so many
ways...<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
We can have poor communication skills and not
accurately convey the<BR>>>> scope of our - or our students'
needs.<BR>>>> We can have
poor skills in transcribing braille<BR>>>>
We can have poor skills in teaching braille... which
(as we all<BR>>>> know) is not necessarily related to
transcribing braille<BR>>>>
We can have poor social skills<BR>>>>
We can have poor mobility
skills<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Of course you realize I'm speaking tongue in cheek.
What I am trying<BR>>>> to convey is that just as each of our
students is an individual... with<BR>>>> unique talents and
areas in need of further development, so are teachers.<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> I consider myself
a rather proficient braille transcriber, but I<BR>>>> will also
admit that I have a colleague who is a much better
teacher<BR>>>> (introducing braille skills to little ones) than
I am. However, she would<BR>>>> panic if she had to transcribe
geometry, while I sink my teeth in and grin.<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> This is one
unique thing about OUR field that regular educators - or<BR>>>>
even special educators - don't have to deal with. We teach
kids:<BR>>>> from birth
to 21 - or older<BR>>>>
those who are blind (adventitiously or
congenitally)<BR>>>>
those who have varying degrees of low vision
(adventitiously or<BR>>>> congenitally)<BR>>>>
those with vision loss and multiple
disabilities<BR>>>> in
any combination of the above, and in multiple settings on a
daily<BR>>>> basis.<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
I don't know any one individual who can
do it ALL to a high level of<BR>>>> proficiency. I do know many
who are in there every day doing the best they<BR>>>> can with
limited resources and lack of support from the educational
system<BR>>>> as well as the parents and
doctors.<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
We tend to hear about the problem teachers. They make
the daily news<BR>>>> and people are outraged. We do ourselves
a disservice as a field for not<BR>>>> sharing news publicly
about the teachers who are considered to be excellent<BR>>>> -
by virtue of their student's outstanding achievements. Even without
data<BR>>>> (but with common sense, perhaps) I'm willing to bet
the good apples in our<BR>>>> field highly outnumber the
bad ones.<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
The REAL problem is... what are we all going to do to
help the<BR>>>> teachers with less-than-proficient skills reach
for the stars and gain the<BR>>>> proficiency they need to
have, what are we going to do to "fix" a system of<BR>>>>
education that is broken, and how can we assure that students who
graduate<BR>>>> from teacher training programs do so with a set
of skills and knowledge that<BR>>>> meet national
criteria.<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Sheila<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>> From: Dr. Denise
M. Robinson<BR>>>> Sent:
Monday, June 07, 2010 10:15 AM<BR>>>>
To: Professionals in Blindness Education Division
List<BR>>>> Subject: Re:
[Pibe-division] Comment<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
The REALLY bad thing about the content of these
comments is we<BR>>>> have the teachers with poor skills
telling the administration all the<BR>>>> incorrect
information--which they believe, hence the lack of instruction
and<BR>>>> poor instruction continues.<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Denise<BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D.<BR>>>>
Coordinator for
Blind/VI students at ESD105<BR>>>>
Teacher of the Blind & Visually
Impaired<BR>>>>
509-969-3622<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
--- On Mon, 6/7/10, Kirsten Peterson <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kpeterson@perandoe.org"
ymailto="mailto:kpeterson@perandoe.org">kpeterson@perandoe.org</A>><BR>>>>
wrote:<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
From: Kirsten
Peterson <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kpeterson@perandoe.org"
ymailto="mailto:kpeterson@perandoe.org">kpeterson@perandoe.org</A>><BR>>>>
Subject: Re:
[Pibe-division] Comment<BR>>>>
To: "Professionals in Blindness
Education Division List"<BR>>>> <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division@nfbnet.org"
ymailto="mailto:pibe-division@nfbnet.org">pibe-division@nfbnet.org</A>><BR>>>>
Date:
Monday, June 7, 2010, 5:13 AM<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
I couldn't agree with you more Denise! Thanks for
standing<BR>>>> up and making the point that clearly needs to
be made over and over again.<BR>>>> It amazes me how many
school districts and teachers..special ed teachers<BR>>>>
included..think of Braille instruction as an extra to occur when
time<BR>>>> allows, rather than as an absolute
necessity!<BR>>>>
Kirsten<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Allison Hilliker
(NFBA)<BR>>>> <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nfbarizona@gmail.com"
ymailto="mailto:nfbarizona@gmail.com">nfbarizona@gmail.com</A>>
wrote:<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
Well said, Denise! I'm glad we have teachers out
there<BR>>>> like you who are spreading such Braille-positive
messages.<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
It continuously amazes me
how seldom common sense is<BR>>>> applied when many people
teach blind kids. Concepts that are widely<BR>>>>
accepted as educational must-haves, like teachers proficient in the
material<BR>>>> they teach, are considered novelties or low
priorities for blind kids.<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Allison<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
-----
Original Message -----<BR>>>>
From: Dr. Denise M.
Robinson<BR>>>>
To: Professionals in Blindness Education
Division List<BR>>>>
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 10:13
AM<BR>>>>
Subject: Re: [Pibe-division]
Comment<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Poor teacher skills ARE directly related to
poor<BR>>>> student outcomes. I have seen it over and over for
the past 20 years as<BR>>>> anyone else has in the field who
has good skills and see their students exel<BR>>>> and others
who do not because of the teacher who is teaching them with
poor<BR>>>> skills.<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
You cannot teach what you do not know and
students<BR>>>> cannot learn what you cannot teach them. You do
not need formal research to<BR>>>> know this, though it would
not be a bad idea to finally put such a foolish<BR>>>> notion
to rest. But how many teachers with poor skills are going to stand
up<BR>>>> and say "yes, please test me and show me how poor my
skills are and test my<BR>>>> students to show everyone how far
behind they are compared to a teacher with<BR>>>> good
skills."<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Denise<BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
Denise M. Robinson, TVI,
Ph.D.<BR>>>>
Coordinator for
Blind/VI students at ESD105<BR>>>>
Teacher of the Blind & Visually
Impaired<BR>>>>
509-969-3622<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
--- On Sun, 6/6/10, Carrie
Gilmer<BR>>>> <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=carrie.gilmer@gmail.com"
ymailto="mailto:carrie.gilmer@gmail.com">carrie.gilmer@gmail.com</A>>
wrote:<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
From: Carrie Gilmer <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=carrie.gilmer@gmail.com"
ymailto="mailto:carrie.gilmer@gmail.com">carrie.gilmer@gmail.com</A>><BR>>>>
Subject: Re: [Pibe-division]
Comment<BR>>>>
To:
"'Professionals in Blindness Education<BR>>>> Division List'"
<<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division@nfbnet.org"
ymailto="mailto:pibe-division@nfbnet.org">pibe-division@nfbnet.org</A>><BR>>>>
Date: Sunday, June 6, 2010, 4:12
PM<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Right on Denise, exactly dead on right on.
Thank<BR>>>> you for not being frustrated, bothered and angry
in silence. Carrie<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
----------------------------------------------------<BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
From: <A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division-bounces@nfbnet.org"
ymailto="mailto:pibe-division-bounces@nfbnet.org">pibe-division-bounces@nfbnet.org</A><BR>>>>
[mailto:<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division-bounces@nfbnet.org"
ymailto="mailto:pibe-division-bounces@nfbnet.org">pibe-division-bounces@nfbnet.org</A>]
On Behalf Of Denise Mackenstadt<BR>>>>
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:07
PM<BR>>>>
To: <A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division@nfbnet.org"
ymailto="mailto:pibe-division@nfbnet.org">pibe-division@nfbnet.org</A><BR>>>>
Subject: [Pibe-division]
Comment<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Recently on AERnet I noticed a post
that<BR>>>> bothered me. I have responded and I am
sending this response to the PIBE<BR>>>> list. Every time
I think that we are making progress something like this<BR>>>>
comment is used to justify not providing for the needs of blind kids.
Here<BR>>>> is the post and my response:<BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
Recently in
response to a question posted by<BR>>>> Sheila one of the posts
stated "Weaknesses: 1. still no published research<BR>>>>
proving or disproving that poor teacher braille skills are responsible
for<BR>>>> poor braille outcomes for students.
Nevertheless, we've gone full steam<BR>>>> ahead
addressing a "problem" that may not exist. Assertions by
advocacy<BR>>>> groups are not evidence, nor are gut
hunches. We need DATA. And thus far<BR>>>> no data
exists." I find it astonishing that an assertion is being made
that<BR>>>> teacher competency in an essential skill to be
taught to students is not<BR>>>> relevant to student
outcomes. Lack of Data cannot take the
place of<BR>>>> common sense or best practice. I cannot
think of another subject area, for<BR>>>> example: Language
Arts, Math, Science or Art, where a decent state
licensing<BR>>>> entity will not expect an instructor to
demonstrate competence. As a parent<BR>>>> I would be
very concerned if my child's English teacher could not read
or<BR>>>> write English. Let us not throw out critical
thinking as an alternative to<BR>>>> non-existent DATA
Collection. I do not want to say that legitimate
research<BR>>>> and legitimate data results are not beneficial
to best practices. But let<BR>>>> us not sacrifice common
sense to the altar of statistics.<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Denise Mackenstadt, NOMC<BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
Mackenstadt Rehab
Services<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
(206)419-9555<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
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href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cane.travel@gmail.com"
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Teacher of Students with Visual
Impairments<BR>>>>
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District<BR>>>>
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Red Bud, IL
62278<BR>>>>
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<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> -- Arielle Silverman<BR>>>
President, National Association of Blind Students<BR>>>
Phone: 602-502-2255<BR>>> Email:<BR>>> <A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nabs.president@gmail.com"
ymailto="mailto:nabs.president@gmail.com">nabs.president@gmail.com</A><BR>>>
Website:<BR>>> www.nabslink.org<BR>>> <BR>>>
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Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Amato" <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=brltrans@verizon.net"
ymailto="mailto:brltrans@verizon.net">brltrans@verizon.net</A>><BR>To:
"Professionals in Blindness Education Division List" <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division@nfbnet.org"
ymailto="mailto:pibe-division@nfbnet.org">pibe-division@nfbnet.org</A>><BR>Sent:
Tuesday, June 08, 2010 3:25 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [Pibe-division]
Comment<BR><BR><BR>> Arielle, I'm going to do a bit of cut and paste
here, and intersperse my comments below.<BR>> <BR>> I don't see
any good reason why these data can't be collected and these results
can't be written up, reviewed and published in a rigorous
manner.<BR>> I agree!<BR>> <BR>> There are plenty of
instruments out there to assess educational outcomes in blind
children,<BR>> I sorta disagree here... we don't have a plethora of
instruments that are normed on our population of students. Which
instruments were you referring to? Assessment is not one of my strong
areas. I'd love to know what your list of instruments would
include.<BR>> <BR>> and plenty of ways to quantify teacher
competency as well.<BR>> I disagree here. We have one test, the NCLB,
to quantify teacher competence at an entry level in the production (not
the teaching) of the literary braille code. I'm heartened that we have
that much, but we need more. What about Nemeth code? music? foreign
language, and teaching these codes? what about quantifying teacher
competence in assistive technology. Should our teachers be required to
demonstrate competence in areas over and above what regular education
teachers do? (hey, would we get paid more if we did so?) Many states
have TVI certification exams, but not all do. Some of them even contain
braille components, but not all do. Some even contain Nemeth components
but not all do. Some states don't even have a certification to teach
kids who are blind... a generic special education teacher can do it.
Where do we start to make reforms?<BR>> <BR>> If we lived in a
perfect world, what would be your research questions? We shouldn't start
off in the middle... I think most folks can agree with the first
statement above. So, what would be your research questions that need
answers? Maybe we can all participate and figure out where to
start.<BR>> <BR>> Sheila<BR>> <BR>>
--------------------------------------------------<BR>> From:
"Arielle Silverman" <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nabs.president@gmail.com"
ymailto="mailto:nabs.president@gmail.com">nabs.president@gmail.com</A>><BR>>
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 12:40 AM<BR>> To: "Professionals in
Blindness Education Division List" <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division@nfbnet.org"
ymailto="mailto:pibe-division@nfbnet.org">pibe-division@nfbnet.org</A>><BR>>
Subject: Re: [Pibe-division] Comment<BR>> <BR>>> Hi
all,<BR>>> <BR>>> Let me first say that I echo the outrage
and frustration that others<BR>>> have voiced at the utter lack of
common sense that is employed when<BR>>> developing teaching
methods for blind kids. Of course teachers who are<BR>>> competent
in Braille are going to have more successful teaching<BR>>>
outcomes than those who are not. As someone who has been blind all
my<BR>>> life I am all too familiar with the general lack of basic
logic that<BR>>> is so often used when designing policies or
strategies for working<BR>>> with blind people, and I am aware
that unjustified negative attitudes<BR>>> can motivate many of
these departures from common sense.<BR>>> <BR>>> However, I
am equally outraged and frustrated by the fact that solid<BR>>>
data linking teaching competence to good learning outcomes are
still<BR>>> nonexistent, and are allowed to remain
nonexistent. I am a graduate<BR>>> student pursuing my doctorate
in experimental social psychology, a<BR>>> discipline heavily
dependent on quantitative data collection. While I<BR>>> know I
still have a lot to learn about empirical research, I don't
see<BR>>> any good reason why these data can't be collected and
these results<BR>>> can't be written up, reviewed and published in
a rigorous manner.<BR>>> There are plenty of instruments out there
to assess educational<BR>>> outcomes in blind children, and plenty
of ways to quantify teacher<BR>>> competency as well. It's true
that perhaps only the better teachers<BR>>> would be willing to
participate in this research, to an extent, but<BR>>> still there
is going to be variability in teachers' level of Braille<BR>>>
proficiency as well as variability in students' success and one
can<BR>>> easily measure the correlation between these two
factors, and how<BR>>> teachers' competencies affect student
progress over time, perhaps over<BR>>> many years. It's true that
we can't randomly assign kids to get either<BR>>> good or bad
teachers and then measure their outcomes, for obvious<BR>>>
reasons. But today's statistical methods permit us to control
for<BR>>> extraneous factors and evaluate change over time, and to
test the<BR>>> effectiveness of specific interventions. I am
confident that if<BR>>> researchers ask the right questions and
use the right tools, we can<BR>>> acquire data that will lend
undeniable support to the truth we already<BR>>> know. I am
disappointed that the lack of data is being used by<BR>>>
proponents of the status quo as a reason for stagnation, while
those<BR>>> of us who are progressive-minded struggle to dismiss
the value of the<BR>>> data instead of going out and collecting it
ourselves. Without data we<BR>>> are stuck in a battle of rhetoric
which neither side can conclusively<BR>>> win, and our students
and future students are paying the price.<BR>>> <BR>>> I
intend to become part of the solution to this problem, although
I<BR>>> haven't figured out exactly how to go about it at this
point. I would<BR>>> be curious to hear the responses of those of
you who have experience<BR>>> working in the field. Perhaps these
studies have already been<BR>>> conducted? If not, how can we
change that?<BR>>> <BR>>> Arielle<BR>>> <BR>>>
On 6/8/10, Sheila Amato <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=brltrans@verizon.net"
ymailto="mailto:brltrans@verizon.net">brltrans@verizon.net</A>>
wrote:<BR>>>> Hi, Denise - In such a situation, my first
(knee-jerk) response would be to<BR>>>> try to find out WHY the
kid is struggling. There are many factors that could<BR>>>>
come into play, such as a learning disability, not enough instructional
time<BR>>>> in the expanded core curriculum, the need for PT or
OT, etc. I would like to<BR>>>> see a functional vision
assessment done, and a learning media assessment<BR>>>> done. I
would request an assistive technology assessment. I would use
the<BR>>>> Michigan Severity Rating Scale to document the
services that should be<BR>>>> provided. I would bring all the
data generated by these assessments to a<BR>>>> team meeting
and lay it out and say that this is what the kid needs in
the<BR>>>> way of materials and in instruction. Now, who can
provide this for the<BR>>>> child?<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> As a TVI, I have said outright to administrators that I
am not the best<BR>>>> qualified person to teach a specific
piece of (brand new) technology... I<BR>>>> had never used it
before. So, I asked for - and received - training in how<BR>>>>
to use it... and mentorship support. True, I had to do the legwork and
find<BR>>>> my own trainer (after all, this is my world, and I
hope I have more networks<BR>>>> than a public school
administrator in the blindness world), but they were<BR>>>>
willing to support my need... so I could support my
student's.<BR>>>> <BR>>>> As a TVI in the trenches
(for another 3 weeks... and then I'm a retired TVI<BR>>>> after
38 years of teaching), it's not my place to evaluate the skills
(or<BR>>>> lack thereof) of my colleagues. That is where the
administration and the<BR>>>> parents need to step up to the
plate. Yes, sigh, I've seen and heard stories<BR>>>> of too
many incompetent teachers - just as you have. I think I'm
always<BR>>>> going to be the eternal optimist and try to find
a way to fix a situation<BR>>>> through mentorship and
networking. If they're there in the teaching<BR>>>> position,
I'm going to try to help them get better each day. We don't
have<BR>>>> any other pool to draw from.<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> Do you know of any more recent data than this... there
are about 40<BR>>>> teacher-training programs in the country.
Collectively, they graduate about<BR>>>> 250 TVIs a year. I
would guess this data is about 8-10 years old, but based<BR>>>>
on the number of graduate students in my braille courses, I get 7 or 8
or 9<BR>>>> a year. In the past few years, I've run
approximately a 50% failure rate in<BR>>>> my university
braille courses (I teach 5 of them). So, I guess that
sparks<BR>>>> more questions than it does answers. I probably
had 15 students pass braille<BR>>>> this past year out of 30
something who enrolled.<BR>>>> <BR>>>> I'm really
enjoying this dialogue...<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Sheila<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>> From: Dr. Denise M.
Robinson<BR>>>> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 8:03
PM<BR>>>> To: Professionals in Blindness Education Division
List<BR>>>> Subject: Re: [Pibe-division]
Comment<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Sheila<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
I am not sure you would use these arguments if you had
a blind child<BR>>>> who was at the bottom of the class,
struggling and unable to meet his<BR>>>> potential due to the
poor instructional skills of his TVI<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
Denise<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D.<BR>>>>
Coordinator for Blind/VI students at
ESD105<BR>>>> Teacher of the
Blind & Visually Impaired<BR>>>>
509-969-3622<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>> --- On Mon, 6/7/10,
Sheila Amato <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=brltrans@verizon.net"
ymailto="mailto:brltrans@verizon.net">brltrans@verizon.net</A>>
wrote:<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
From: Sheila Amato <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=brltrans@verizon.net"
ymailto="mailto:brltrans@verizon.net">brltrans@verizon.net</A>><BR>>>>
Subject: Re: [Pibe-division]
Comment<BR>>>> To:
"Professionals in Blindness Education Division List"<BR>>>>
<<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division@nfbnet.org"
ymailto="mailto:pibe-division@nfbnet.org">pibe-division@nfbnet.org</A>><BR>>>>
Date: Monday, June 7, 2010, 10:42
PM<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Hi, Denise - ay, we can be bad in so many
ways...<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
We can have poor communication skills and not
accurately convey the<BR>>>> scope of our - or our students'
needs.<BR>>>> We can have
poor skills in transcribing braille<BR>>>>
We can have poor skills in teaching braille... which
(as we all<BR>>>> know) is not necessarily related to
transcribing braille<BR>>>>
We can have poor social skills<BR>>>>
We can have poor mobility
skills<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Of course you realize I'm speaking tongue in cheek.
What I am trying<BR>>>> to convey is that just as each of our
students is an individual... with<BR>>>> unique talents and
areas in need of further development, so are teachers.<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> I consider myself
a rather proficient braille transcriber, but I<BR>>>> will also
admit that I have a colleague who is a much better
teacher<BR>>>> (introducing braille skills to little ones) than
I am. However, she would<BR>>>> panic if she had to transcribe
geometry, while I sink my teeth in and grin.<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> This is one
unique thing about OUR field that regular educators - or<BR>>>>
even special educators - don't have to deal with. We teach
kids:<BR>>>> from birth
to 21 - or older<BR>>>>
those who are blind (adventitiously or
congenitally)<BR>>>>
those who have varying degrees of low vision
(adventitiously or<BR>>>> congenitally)<BR>>>>
those with vision loss and multiple
disabilities<BR>>>> in
any combination of the above, and in multiple settings on a
daily<BR>>>> basis.<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
I don't know any one individual who can
do it ALL to a high level of<BR>>>> proficiency. I do know many
who are in there every day doing the best they<BR>>>> can with
limited resources and lack of support from the educational
system<BR>>>> as well as the parents and
doctors.<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
We tend to hear about the problem teachers. They make
the daily news<BR>>>> and people are outraged. We do ourselves
a disservice as a field for not<BR>>>> sharing news publicly
about the teachers who are considered to be excellent<BR>>>> -
by virtue of their student's outstanding achievements. Even without
data<BR>>>> (but with common sense, perhaps) I'm willing to bet
the good apples in our<BR>>>> field highly outnumber the
bad ones.<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
The REAL problem is... what are we all going to do to
help the<BR>>>> teachers with less-than-proficient skills reach
for the stars and gain the<BR>>>> proficiency they need to
have, what are we going to do to "fix" a system of<BR>>>>
education that is broken, and how can we assure that students who
graduate<BR>>>> from teacher training programs do so with a set
of skills and knowledge that<BR>>>> meet national
criteria.<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Sheila<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>> From: Dr. Denise
M. Robinson<BR>>>> Sent:
Monday, June 07, 2010 10:15 AM<BR>>>>
To: Professionals in Blindness Education Division
List<BR>>>> Subject: Re:
[Pibe-division] Comment<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
The REALLY bad thing about the content of these
comments is we<BR>>>> have the teachers with poor skills
telling the administration all the<BR>>>> incorrect
information--which they believe, hence the lack of instruction
and<BR>>>> poor instruction continues.<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Denise<BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D.<BR>>>>
Coordinator for
Blind/VI students at ESD105<BR>>>>
Teacher of the Blind & Visually
Impaired<BR>>>>
509-969-3622<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
--- On Mon, 6/7/10, Kirsten Peterson <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kpeterson@perandoe.org"
ymailto="mailto:kpeterson@perandoe.org">kpeterson@perandoe.org</A>><BR>>>>
wrote:<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
From: Kirsten
Peterson <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kpeterson@perandoe.org"
ymailto="mailto:kpeterson@perandoe.org">kpeterson@perandoe.org</A>><BR>>>>
Subject: Re:
[Pibe-division] Comment<BR>>>>
To: "Professionals in Blindness
Education Division List"<BR>>>> <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division@nfbnet.org"
ymailto="mailto:pibe-division@nfbnet.org">pibe-division@nfbnet.org</A>><BR>>>>
Date:
Monday, June 7, 2010, 5:13 AM<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
I couldn't agree with you more Denise! Thanks for
standing<BR>>>> up and making the point that clearly needs to
be made over and over again.<BR>>>> It amazes me how many
school districts and teachers..special ed teachers<BR>>>>
included..think of Braille instruction as an extra to occur when
time<BR>>>> allows, rather than as an absolute
necessity!<BR>>>>
Kirsten<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Allison Hilliker
(NFBA)<BR>>>> <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nfbarizona@gmail.com"
ymailto="mailto:nfbarizona@gmail.com">nfbarizona@gmail.com</A>>
wrote:<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
Well said, Denise! I'm glad we have teachers out
there<BR>>>> like you who are spreading such Braille-positive
messages.<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
It continuously amazes me
how seldom common sense is<BR>>>> applied when many people
teach blind kids. Concepts that are widely<BR>>>>
accepted as educational must-haves, like teachers proficient in the
material<BR>>>> they teach, are considered novelties or low
priorities for blind kids.<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Allison<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
-----
Original Message -----<BR>>>>
From: Dr. Denise M.
Robinson<BR>>>>
To: Professionals in Blindness Education
Division List<BR>>>>
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 10:13
AM<BR>>>>
Subject: Re: [Pibe-division]
Comment<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Poor teacher skills ARE directly related to
poor<BR>>>> student outcomes. I have seen it over and over for
the past 20 years as<BR>>>> anyone else has in the field who
has good skills and see their students exel<BR>>>> and others
who do not because of the teacher who is teaching them with
poor<BR>>>> skills.<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
You cannot teach what you do not know and
students<BR>>>> cannot learn what you cannot teach them. You do
not need formal research to<BR>>>> know this, though it would
not be a bad idea to finally put such a foolish<BR>>>> notion
to rest. But how many teachers with poor skills are going to stand
up<BR>>>> and say "yes, please test me and show me how poor my
skills are and test my<BR>>>> students to show everyone how far
behind they are compared to a teacher with<BR>>>> good
skills."<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Denise<BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
Denise M. Robinson, TVI,
Ph.D.<BR>>>>
Coordinator for
Blind/VI students at ESD105<BR>>>>
Teacher of the Blind & Visually
Impaired<BR>>>>
509-969-3622<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
--- On Sun, 6/6/10, Carrie
Gilmer<BR>>>> <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=carrie.gilmer@gmail.com"
ymailto="mailto:carrie.gilmer@gmail.com">carrie.gilmer@gmail.com</A>>
wrote:<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
From: Carrie Gilmer <<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=carrie.gilmer@gmail.com"
ymailto="mailto:carrie.gilmer@gmail.com">carrie.gilmer@gmail.com</A>><BR>>>>
Subject: Re: [Pibe-division]
Comment<BR>>>>
To:
"'Professionals in Blindness Education<BR>>>> Division List'"
<<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division@nfbnet.org"
ymailto="mailto:pibe-division@nfbnet.org">pibe-division@nfbnet.org</A>><BR>>>>
Date: Sunday, June 6, 2010, 4:12
PM<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Right on Denise, exactly dead on right on.
Thank<BR>>>> you for not being frustrated, bothered and angry
in silence. Carrie<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
----------------------------------------------------<BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
From: <A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division-bounces@nfbnet.org"
ymailto="mailto:pibe-division-bounces@nfbnet.org">pibe-division-bounces@nfbnet.org</A><BR>>>>
[mailto:<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division-bounces@nfbnet.org"
ymailto="mailto:pibe-division-bounces@nfbnet.org">pibe-division-bounces@nfbnet.org</A>]
On Behalf Of Denise Mackenstadt<BR>>>>
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:07
PM<BR>>>>
To: <A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division@nfbnet.org"
ymailto="mailto:pibe-division@nfbnet.org">pibe-division@nfbnet.org</A><BR>>>>
Subject: [Pibe-division]
Comment<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Recently on AERnet I noticed a post
that<BR>>>> bothered me. I have responded and I am
sending this response to the PIBE<BR>>>> list. Every time
I think that we are making progress something like this<BR>>>>
comment is used to justify not providing for the needs of blind kids.
Here<BR>>>> is the post and my response:<BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
Recently in
response to a question posted by<BR>>>> Sheila one of the posts
stated "Weaknesses: 1. still no published research<BR>>>>
proving or disproving that poor teacher braille skills are responsible
for<BR>>>> poor braille outcomes for students.
Nevertheless, we've gone full steam<BR>>>> ahead
addressing a "problem" that may not exist. Assertions by
advocacy<BR>>>> groups are not evidence, nor are gut
hunches. We need DATA. And thus far<BR>>>> no data
exists." I find it astonishing that an assertion is being made
that<BR>>>> teacher competency in an essential skill to be
taught to students is not<BR>>>> relevant to student
outcomes. Lack of Data cannot take the
place of<BR>>>> common sense or best practice. I cannot
think of another subject area, for<BR>>>> example: Language
Arts, Math, Science or Art, where a decent state
licensing<BR>>>> entity will not expect an instructor to
demonstrate competence. As a parent<BR>>>> I would be
very concerned if my child's English teacher could not read
or<BR>>>> write English. Let us not throw out critical
thinking as an alternative to<BR>>>> non-existent DATA
Collection. I do not want to say that legitimate
research<BR>>>> and legitimate data results are not beneficial
to best practices. But let<BR>>>> us not sacrifice common
sense to the altar of statistics.<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Denise Mackenstadt, NOMC<BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
Mackenstadt Rehab
Services<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
(206)419-9555<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cane.travel@gmail.com"
ymailto="mailto:cane.travel@gmail.com">cane.travel@gmail.com</A><BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
-----Inline
Attachment Follows-----<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>
Pibe-division mailing
list<BR>>>>
<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Pibe-division@nfbnet.org"
ymailto="mailto:Pibe-division@nfbnet.org">Pibe-division@nfbnet.org</A><BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <A
href="http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/pibe-division_nfbnet.org"
target=_blank>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/pibe-division_nfbnet.org</A><BR>>>>
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or get<BR>>>> your account info for
Pibe-division:<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <A
href="http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/pibe-division_nfbnet.org/dmehlenbacher%40yahoo.com"
target=_blank>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/pibe-division_nfbnet.org/dmehlenbacher%40yahoo.com</A><BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>
Pibe-division mailing list<BR>>>>
<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Pibe-division@nfbnet.org"
ymailto="mailto:Pibe-division@nfbnet.org">Pibe-division@nfbnet.org</A><BR>>>>
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target=_blank>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/pibe-division_nfbnet.org/nfbarizona%40gmail.com</A><BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>
Pibe-division mailing list<BR>>>>
<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Pibe-division@nfbnet.org"
ymailto="mailto:Pibe-division@nfbnet.org">Pibe-division@nfbnet.org</A><BR>>>>
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target=_blank>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/pibe-division_nfbnet.org</A><BR>>>>
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target=_blank>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/pibe-division_nfbnet.org/kpeterson%40perandoe.org</A><BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
--<BR>>>>
Kirsten M. Peterson,
M.S.Ed.<BR>>>>
Teacher of Students with Visual
Impairments<BR>>>>
Perandoe Special Education
District<BR>>>>
1525 Locust<BR>>>>
Red Bud, IL
62278<BR>>>>
(618) 282-6251 ext. 104<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
This message and all attachments are
confidential. Any<BR>>>> review, use, disclosure or
distribution by persons other than the intended<BR>>>>
recipients is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe this
message<BR>>>> has been sent to you in error, please notify the
sender by replying to this<BR>>>> transmission or calling The
Perandoe Special Education District at<BR>>>> 618-282-6251 and
delete this message and any copy of it (in any form)<BR>>>>
without disclosing it. Unless expressly stated in this e-mail, nothing
in<BR>>>> this message should be construed as a digital or
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could result in civil<BR>>>> and/or criminal
penalties.<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
-----Inline
Attachment Follows-----<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>
Pibe-division mailing list<BR>>>>
<A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Pibe-division@nfbnet.org"
ymailto="mailto:Pibe-division@nfbnet.org">Pibe-division@nfbnet.org</A><BR>>>>
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<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>
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href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Pibe-division@nfbnet.org"
ymailto="mailto:Pibe-division@nfbnet.org">Pibe-division@nfbnet.org</A><BR>>>>
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<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>
Pibe-division mailing
list<BR>>>> <A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Pibe-division@nfbnet.org"
ymailto="mailto:Pibe-division@nfbnet.org">Pibe-division@nfbnet.org</A><BR>>>>
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href="http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/pibe-division_nfbnet.org"
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<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>
Pibe-division mailing list<BR>>>> <A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Pibe-division@nfbnet.org"
ymailto="mailto:Pibe-division@nfbnet.org">Pibe-division@nfbnet.org</A><BR>>>>
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target=_blank>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/pibe-division_nfbnet.org/brltrans%40verizon.net</A><BR>>>>
<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> -- Arielle Silverman<BR>>>
President, National Association of Blind Students<BR>>>
Phone: 602-502-2255<BR>>> Email:<BR>>> <A
href="http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nabs.president@gmail.com"
ymailto="mailto:nabs.president@gmail.com">nabs.president@gmail.com</A><BR>>>
Website:<BR>>> www.nabslink.org<BR>>> <BR>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>
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ymailto="mailto:Pibe-division@nfbnet.org">Pibe-division@nfbnet.org</A><BR>>>
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<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
_______________________________________________<BR>> Pibe-division
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<BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Pibe-division
mailing list<BR><A
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