[Quietcars] Are hybrids anti-driver safety and anti-environment?

[michael townsend]

Ken, where are the batteries in these vehicles?  Most are either  under the
back seats or in the trunks and not in the crumple zones, as you stated.  \
\
Plus, designators are on vehicles with hybrids, plainly so that one can see,
as an emergency responder, if an accident should occur, that special
handling needs to be taken concerning these vehicles.  

If one would do the legwork and see clearly that we have to work in harmony
both in the environmental areas and I the pedestrian areas, as it is not all
one-si9ded as some of the membership of your organization is espousing,
things would be a little more clear when one makes a choice that should be,
but is not often, an informed one.  

I have stated time and time again that, we dog handlers have been four legs
up on the competition here, meaning that our dogs will not or most often
will not allow us to walk into t paths of on-coming vehicles, be they two
wheel, four wheel or more, and that in many cases, guide dog schools have
gotten hybrids as part of their working arsenal of vehicles to train both
students and dogs with the tools that avoid accidents, and this include
hybri9ds.  State agencies, cane travel specialists and individuals should
enlighten themselves by calling friends, putting notices in church
bulletins, if that's your thing, and/or doing something to make themselves
familiar with the hybrid vehicle and how it works and what advantages and
what pedestrian avoidances can be gleamed from being around them.  

The hybrid is not going away, but we can work in harmony with it.  

I will say this.  I find it so ironic that an organization who continually
lobbied for the interference in the usage of audible traffic signals and got
them turned off in a lot of cases in towns where their training centers are
located, is concerned about the hybrid, which, when noise is emitted fro
both is an annoyance, but in both cases, could benefit the pedestrian, be
they blind or sighted.  

Enough said.  

 

-----Original Message-----
From: quietcars-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:quietcars-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Ken Stewart
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 12:16 AM
To: Discussion of new quiet cars and pedestrian safety
Subject: Re: [Quietcars] Are hybrids anti-driver safety and
anti-environment?

At that NYC public hearing on Hybrid taxis I reported on previously, and on
another occasion, I heard a claim that the huge batteries carried in the
front of hybrids, seriously reduce "the crunch zone".  That is the area in
the front of a conventional auto which compresses during a front-end crash,
thus absorbing much of the impact and is therefore safer for the driver.  I
have also read concerns expressed by environmentalists that when these
batteries lose their effectiveness (Claimed to be only five years), they
will be a serious negative addition to our trash heaps.  The negative
environmental impact of the mining of one of the chemical components of the
vbatteries, has been the subject of worry also.
--- michael townsend <mrtownsend at optonline.net> wrote:

> >From the New York Times:
> 
> Resource:
>
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/12/06/health-risks-o
>
f-hybrid-cars-have-been-misrepresented-by-the-media.aspx?PageIndex=2
> 
> 
> 
> After my comments, a very interesting article as I've cited the 
> resource.
> 
> I'm on a quiet car list sponsored by the NFB, but found this after 
> dealing with some other issues of quietness, and finding that a 
> solution of making hybrids noisy enough to hear them but quiet enough 
> to make tem a satisfactory vehicle is more impossible that real.
> 
> This article points out some of the misconceptions and idiosyncrasies 
> of the hybrid issue as a whole and it just goes to show that nobody's 
> satisfied.
> It's time for tree huggers and power trippers to unite and do 
> something for the good of the nation in these troubled times.
> 
> Mike T in New Jersey
> 
> Health Risks of Hybrid Cars Have Been Misrepresented by the Media 
> hybrid, electric car, prius, EMF, electromagnetic fields, gauss A New 
> York Times article published earlier this year raised questions about 
> the health risks of electromagnetic fields (EMFs) in hybrid or 
> electric vehicles.
> EMFs have been linked to serious health matters, including cancer and 
> a potential risk of leukemia among children, so limiting exposure is 
> in your best interest.
> However, a safety report by
> Stan Hartman
> , an environmental health consultant in Boulder, CO, specializing in 
> electropollution, found that hybrid vehicles are not a problem for 
> your health.
> "There were a lot of misleading statements in the recent NY Times 
> article, including claims of 100 mG fields, which are causing alarm,"
> Hartman said.
> "It's next to impossible to get accurate readings in a moving vehicle. 
> Since there was no lift available to simulate road resistance to the 
> drive train in a constant external EMF atmosphere, the results of this 
> testing are only approximate at best."
> Sources:
> The New York Times April 27, 2008
> Enjoy a Happy Digestive System Once and for All* Find Out More Dr. 
> Mercola Dr. Mercola's Comments:
> There's no disputing that hybrid cars are good for the environment. 
> But lately another issue has been raised: Are hybrids healthy for the 
> drivers and passengers?
> It's a legitimate question. I've written extensively on the dangers of 
> electromagnetic fields (EMF)  myself, and have previously warned you 
> about the potential dangers these hybrid vehicles might pose.
> The flow of electrical current to the motor of a hybrid vehicle 
> produces magnetic fields, which studies have associated with serious 
> health risks, including a heightened risk of leukemia among children.
> Additionally, since the batteries and power cables in hybrids are 
> often placed close to the driver and passengers, it's likely that some 
> exposure to electromagnetic fields is unavoidable. And the exposure is 
> a prolonged one as many drivers spend hours each day at the wheel.
> So, should you buy a hybrid? Or are you gambling with your health 
> while making an effort to go green?
> Electro-Pollution Specialist Weighs in On the Potential Dangers Stan 
> Hartman is an environmental health consultant in Boulder, CO, 
> specializing in electro-pollution. He believes the article featured in 
> The New York Times  contains many misleading statements that may 
> frighten people unnecessarily.
> "There's no more difficult a situation to try to get accurate EMF 
> readings in than a moving car, and the errors will almost certainly be 
> to exaggerate toward the high end, he states.
> With instruments that tend to do that already, and don't claim high 
> accuracy to begin with (6 decibels compared to less than 1 for a good 
> professional meter), they end up scaring people unjustifiably."
> Hartman, who conducted his own EMF safety test of a
> 2007 Toyota Prius
> Hybrid, offered
> the following corrections and explanations to the Times article above:
> 1. Trifield meters are useful, but it's important to be aware of their 
> sensitivity to high frequencies when trying to determine ELF levels, 
> and of the fact that standard Trifields, unlike most gaussmeters, are 
> frequency-weighted. Higher frequencies read as higher magnetic fields.  
> So a 120 Hz field will read twice as high as a 60 Hz field, a 180 Hz 
> field three times too high, etc., and they have significant 
> sensitivity as high as 100 kHz, and some residual sensitivity to 100 
> MHz - on the magnetic, not radio/microwave setting. This can result in 
> wildly high readings if they're interpreted as ELF when higher 
> frequencies are present (like near the floorboards of cars with 
> electronic ignitions, which include many more vehicles than just the 
> Prius and other hybrids).
> 2. AC magnetic field readings were consistently higher on the rear 
> seats than on the front seats. Measurements in the rear passenger 
> compartment were made in the center of the seats, away from the doors, 
> to avoid confusion with the ELF magnetic fields from the magnetized, 
> revolving steel wires in the tires.  Tire fields are too low-frequency 
> to be detected by most gaussmeters, which have 30 or 40 Hz 
> low-frequency filters to keep them stable while moving in the earth's 
> field, but they're present in most if not all vehicles, even those 
> with "polyester-belted" radials, which still have significant steel in 
> them. They're usually confined to within a few inches of the back 
> doors.
> 3. ELF magnetic fields were highest when both the gasoline engine and 
> the electric motor were running - when the vehicle was warming up, 
> accelerating, climbing even slightly, or charging the battery. During 
> hard acceleration, they could reach 6 or 8 mG at seat level on the 
> rear seats, diminishing higher up from the seats.
> 4. Operating on the electric motor alone, the readings in the back 
> were usually less
> 
=== message truncated ===



      

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