[Quietcars] Cars that shut off and start back up.

Wed Dec 29 23:35:00 UTC 2010

So, does this mean cars withy start stop systems have to run the engine stop
run accessories or are the accessories driven by electric power and then
when the engine starts, is the battery or batteries recharged by the
generator or the regenerative braking system?  

-----Original Message-----
From: quietcars-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:quietcars-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Robert Wilson
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 3:49 PM
To: quietcars at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [Quietcars] Cars that shut off and start back up.

Hi Mike,

You may be thinking of Ford's announcement that they are going to install
"start/stop" systems in all of their new vehicles in the next year or so.
This is a first for Ford which has been using hybrid technology similar to
Toyota (and in fact both had cross-patent sharing agreements.)

This past decade, GM sold mostly "Mild Hybrids" which we called "belt
assisted" hybrids with this start-stop technology. Sad to say, the fuel
savings claims from "start/stop" were and remain inflated. The "start/stop"
mechanism is that once the foot left the brake, it would start the engine.
The vehicle would not move forward until the engine was running. Even so,
the time frame was within the time it takes to remove the foot from the
brake and move it over to the accelerator, several tenths of seconds or
more.

>From a technical standpoint, these 'start/stop' system are typically in the
5 horsepower region and use a modified alternator that can run as a motor.
They have been just strong enough to spin the engine but never strong enough
to sustain speed in electric mode. All electrical power had to flow through
the crank shaft, the GM approach.

The Honda hybrid builds the electric motor into the flywheel assembly, the
Honda Integrated Motor Assist. There is enough electrical power that in some
speed regions, the 15 horse power motor could both spin the engine and
sustain speed. The real advantage came from the low-end torque that allowed
a smaller Honda engine to perform more like one the next size up.

The "belt assisted" hybrids were always on large displacement engines and
did not use the alternator-motor for any appreciable efficiency gains.

One aspect of the "start/stop" systems is the need for accessories such as
the air conditioner compressor, power steering, and even power brakes to
operate electrically. This will provide additional noise as many Prius
owners have learned when running the air conditioner in the summer.

Bob Wilson

----------------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 18:15:50 -0500
> From: mrtownsend at optonline.net
> To: quietcars at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [Quietcars] Cars that shut off and start back up.
>
> This is something that I'd posted to a guide dog list of Seeing eye 
> handlers, as someone had posted about the fact that some cars will 
> join the quieter fleet, meaning that they will turn off and again 
> restart once the accelerator pedal is pressed after being idle for a 
> time., this is only my opinion, so if anyone has any concrete evidence 
> of such or has other information that disputes anything I'm saying and 
> can show me through evidence that our passed quiet car legislation 
> will be enacted sooner, please share. This is not meant to bash any 
> one organization or throw water on the quiet car fire, but to be 
> truthful, in any and all ways regarding this issue.
>
> Mike T
>
> Jenn, this is apparently what is proposed, and the fact is that this 
> legislation that was passed in the house that was begun primarily by 
> the NFB and then the ACB which collaborated to lobby for it, will NOT 
> be enacted for a couple of years, at the very least, and there isn't a 
> thing that we can do to get it through beforehand.
>
> There is testing that needs to be done, a solution to which noises or 
> noise a car or vehicle should make and where the noise emitted device 
> or devices should be placed And an agreement that each car 
> manufacturer has to come on board with is not yet set in stone. Scary, 
> but true, and this legislation doesn't just apply to the blind for 
> their safety, but to every consumer, whether the be sighted, mobile 
> without any impairment, etc. Just something to think about.
>
> "I am accustomed to hearing malicious falsehoods about myself...but I 
> think I have a right to resent, to object to, libelous statements 
> about my dog."
> -Franklin D. Roosevelt
> Mike Townsend and Seeing Eye dog Brent Dunellen, New Jersey 08812
> emails: mrtownsend at optonline.net;
> michael.townsend54 at gmail.com
> Home Phone: 732 200-5643
> Cellular: 732 718-9480
>
>
>
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