[Quietcars] Passenger defeatable systems.

Tue Jun 15 02:01:33 UTC 2010

Hi Mike,

That there are inattentive drivers is no more of an issue than  
inattentive pedestrians. Sometimes we're all a little bit clueless for  
a few seconds...and usually the few seconds that matters. I've worked  
with a guide dog, and I understand the intelligent disobedience. But  
for cane users, who are still a hefty majority of blind people, that  
is moot. We cane users use environmental (read: traffic) cues to tell  
us about our surroundings, much like your dog gives you cues. Guide  
dog users might be less affected by quiet cars because the dogs can  
respond to visual stimuli, but even if I think about working with a  
guide dog, I still want to know what's happening around me. Dogs make  
mistakes too, and I like to be a check on my dog's decisions. So, as a  
cane user -- and even thinking back to how I'd react when I was a dog  
user -- I need cars to make noise to live a safe and independent life.

Corbb

On Jun 14, 2010, at 8:40 AM, michael townsend wrote:

Corbb, there are enough incidents of people not looking where they are  
going
each day regardless of the status of the pedestrians.

It is just a per chance thing.

At AT&T where I worked in one location for 15 years, there were gen
portholes that emptied out onto an apron that surrounded the entire  
complex
where 5000 people worked in Basking Ridge, NJ.

Each day when I walked, I had a close call from people doing just that.

But, even in a circumstance where a car is NOT, in caps a hybrid, you  
would
have trouble discerning some cars that had accelerated, i.e., Honda  
Accords,
Nissans, etc., and the luxury  groupings, as their engines are quieter  
than
most.  The American cars are still a little noisier I their valve  
trains and
engine sounds.

None the less, as a guide dog handler, I have some built-in safety  
features
that you cane users never will have, in the fact that the guide dog is
trained to avoid conflict by either intelligently disobeying a command  
to
move forward when objects are either in the way or approaching me, as  
a car
or vehicle would, or interpret the situation and intelligently get me  
away
from harm by pulling me backwards up on a curb or away from an  
incident by
doing whatever it takes to avoid injury.

In a lot of cases where people who do use a guide run into trouble  on  
the
road, the dogs are not injured and the people are, simply because the  
people
don't pick up clues that the dogs are giving them and move forward or  
into
harm's way at their own risk.

Corbb, good question, but if we start blaming drivers for all of our  
issues,
which you have not here, we're going to come off as complainers  
instead of
being proactive and working for a solution.

I agree with Bob that at times, we need to step back and assess where  
we are
going with an issue and think more clearly about things from the data  
and
other forms of input that can be found.

-----Original Message-----
From: quietcars-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:quietcars- 
bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Corbb O'Connor
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 11:08 PM
To: Discussion of new quiet cars and pedestrian safety
Subject: Re: [Quietcars] Passenger defeatable systems.

Hi Bob,

I've been quietly reading this list for several months. But I have a
question. You mention that the data (the NHTSA report, I believe?) don't
show that there are enough incidents between pedestrians and quiet  
cars to
merit a 100% minimum sound standard...so instead we should target the
"danger points" -- turn signals, backup, etc. But the data aren't  
complete.
Imagine this: I'm a blind person walking to work. I'm walking down the
sidewalk when all of a sudden I hear brakes to my right, look closely,  
and
see a car a few inches from my cane.
After giving a dirty look (and maybe thumbs down?) to the driver who has
floored their car out of a parking garage without mind for potential
pedestrians, I go on my way. The data aren't likely to show this  
incident.
Some luck saved my cane -- and probably me -- from a collision. I didn't
stop to write down the license plate, make, model, etc. (nevermind  
that I
probably couldn't see well enough to do that on my own anyway), and  
there's
nothing to do with the info other than report a close-call to this  
group.
Are you saying that we need more violent incidents before we should  
require
a minimum sound standard for cars? You don't seem like somebody who  
would
think that, but that's the essence of my question...blunt as it may be.

Corbb

On Jun 6, 2010, at 10:36 AM, Robert Wilson wrote:

Hi Mike,

> Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 10:33:31 -0400
> From: mrtownsend at optonline.net
> To: quietcars at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [Quietcars] Passenger defeatable systems.
>
> This seems like a possible idea.  However, Bob, if people carry these
> devices, who's going to pay for them,

Today, we get two normal fobs. I see the safety fob being part of the  
the
standard equipment list for all new cars, much like any other piece of
safety equipment because it lets both the driver, pedestrian and by- 
standers
know there is an at-risk pedestrian in the area. One alternative is the
ability to reprogram a standard fob into a safety fob. Issue three  
fobs with
one configured as a safety fob.

I've bought fobs for the NHW11 and NHW20 along with a keyless  
development
system to more fully understand the technology. Lesson's
learned: (1) the fobs are microprocessor controlled, which is critical  
for
vehicle operation but makes them unusually flexible; (2) the data  
rates are
modest but easily decipherable and; the small 1x2 inch or smaller boards
have very few parts, very cheap to produce.

I don't underestimate the technical challenges of making a practical,
universal safety fob but  seat belts and air bags had resistance and
development challenges too. Sad to say, the language of the Stearns
amendment all but rules this approach out. Otherwise, I and a few others
would be pretty busy right now.

> . . . how does one go about applying to receive one, prove that they
> actually need one and

The owner has the option of either keeping for their own use, say a
pre-school child or elderly family member, or letting the dealer  
donate to a
local service organization.

> . . . who is going to carry out
> the testing of such devices on a periodic basis to ensure that they
> are working as hoped.

The safety fob is tested by walking outside. The receiver operation is
automatic and built-in to the vehicle. As for the horn bleep, testing  
would
be needed but such testing should include more of a click versus even  
the
muted bleep of the Volt. As newer vehicles come into the fleet, they  
would
increase the population and because they are 'on demand,' even older  
vehicle
drivers could hear the warning from the newer cars. In contrast, the
constant noise generator becomes "the boy who cried wolf."

Bob Wilson

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