[Quietcars] How will the Start/Stop system affect blind pedestrians?

Thu Oct 7 01:31:38 UTC 2010

Hi,

You are welcome. If I do any good it is to make sure the facts and data about hybrids are available. We may disagree about policy but that has nothing to do with the basic engineering, facts and data about how these vehicle actually work.

For those who want to save fuel, to achieve some savings at the pump, it is hard to imagine a profile where Start/Stop makes sense. Every time we make any such driving profile, a full hybrid completely out performs the Start/Stop. We have an insult for such systems, "greenwash" meaning like eyewash it appears to be efficient but is a fraud.

As for noise generation, I know the Saturn VUE that I tested three years ago did not have a noise generator. Today, I can not find a noise generator listed as part of the GM specifications for their two-mode hybrids. Three weeks ago I was stuck in traffic next to a GM Tahoe, two-mode hybrid and I did not hear a noise maker. Perhaps only the Volt will have a noise maker when it comes out . . . like the Fisker.

Bob WIlson

> Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 12:00:04 -0400
> From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com
> To: quietcars at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [Quietcars] How will the Start/Stop system affect blind	pedestrians?
> 
> Thank you for the explanation, Bob. I really appreciated it as well. I
> don't think these "micro hybrids" will really work in the U.S., but
> we'll just have to see...there is a bill being considered in Congress
> to require all cars have this system, if I remember right.
> 
> How will this sort of "micro hybrid" effect independent travel? Do
> they go silent when idling, or is there some noise to indicate to a
> blind pedestrian that there is a car there? That is my main concern
> about this start/stop system, that they will be like the actual
> hybrids in being so silent, but I don't think they are under the Quiet
> Car bill that was passed.
> 
> On 10/4/10, michael townsend <mrtownsend at optonline.net> wrote:
> > Thanks, Bob.  I appreciated your explanation and didn't think that this type
> > of hybrid would last. I think that Chevy is still touting the Malibu hybrid,
> > though.  Wonder how long it will be until they change this over.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: quietcars-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:quietcars-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> > Behalf Of Robert Wilson
> > Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 4:54 AM
> > To: quietcars at nfbnet.org
> > Subject: Re: [Quietcars] How will the Start/Stop system affect blind
> > pedestrians?
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Let me share some details about the automatic start/stop systems. General
> > Motors sold them to the public up until May of this year calling them "mild
> > hybrids" or belt-assisted hybrids. Wiki reports they are still sold to
> > 'fleets.' Today we call them "micro hybrids," a more accurate description.
> > About three years ago, I drove a Saturn VUE equipped with a GM belt-assisted
> > hybrid system.
> >
> > These "micro hybrids" typically have a 5 hp or less, modified alternator
> > that can also work as a motor using a 36 V power system connected to a 170
> > hp gas engine. But the GM versions did not have enough power to start a cold
> > engine so they still had to use a regular (and heavy) 12 V starter and
> > battery in addition to the higher voltage, modified alternator system. The
> > hybrid part had little effect on vehicle efficiency.
> >
> > In contrast, the Honda Integrated Motor Assist provides nearly 20 hp
> > electric motor power directly to the 85 hp engine flywheel. This allows a
> > 1.3L engine to perform like a 1.5L engine by providing the low-end, torque.
> > Honda uses it with their Insight, a small hatchback with a similar,
> > aerodynamic shape to the Prius. The Honda Insight is returning nearly
> > identical mileage, 49-50 MPG, to their owners as the Prius but it is a
> > compact car. I hit my head on the door trying to sit down into an Insight.
> >
> > These GM "micro hybrids" led to many complaints by new owners because it was
> > a gas car with a second, computer controlled starter. The disappointed
> > owners would come to the Green Hybrid web site and we would explain why. But
> > some car companies are run by hybrid-skeptics who believe the word "hybrid"
> > is all it takes to fool the public. GM "mild hybrid" sales to the public
> > stopped the same month Bob Lutz finally retired from GM.
> >
> > Bob Wilson
> >
> >> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 20:01:48 -0400
> >> From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com
> >> To: quietcars at nfbnet.org
> >> Subject: [Quietcars] How will the Start/Stop system affect blind
> > pedestrians?
> >>
> >> Dear List,
> >> I have been reading a lot lately about the introduction of the
> >> start/stop system into the American autobmobile industry, and I have
> >> much concern about it. I am not sure if I understand the start/stop
> >> system completely correctly, and I hope you can shed some list on it
> >> for me.
> >>
> >> >From what I've been reading, the start/stop system is much like the
> >> hybrid concept except that it doesn't have the electronic component.
> >> According to an article on Smart Planet, "when an equipped car stops,
> >> so does its engine." ("American Cars Will Soon Get 'Start-Stop'
> >> Fule-Saving Tech,
> >> www.smartplanet.com/technology/.../american...start-stop.../5231/). If
> >> this is so, wouldn't that mean that when the car is idling, it will be
> >> silent, just like quiet cars?
> >>
> >> How will this start-stop system affect blind pedestrians' ability to
> >> determine idling traffic at stop signs, red lights, waiting to turn
> >> from a parking lot or driveway, or in other similar situations? I fear
> >> that it will make the roads even more dangerous for blind pedestrians
> >> who rely on the sound of idling traffic to know if there is a car to
> >> look out for.
> >>
> >> With concern,
> >> ~Jewel
> >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
> >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
> >>
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> 
> -- 
> ~Jewel
> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
> 
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