[Rehab] Informed Choice in Job Jeopardy Cases

Justin Salisbury PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu
Thu Aug 6 23:20:15 UTC 2020 

Thanks Lucy,

That's very comprehensive. I appreciate it. 

I read in some minutes from a state rehab council meeting that there were six states on a fully-closed OOS, and that was before the pandemic. I worry that the number could go up dramatically. Being a blind person in need of VR services in such a state is not good. 

In one of my past jobs, I was privy to a process where VR counselors in an agency with a fully-closed OOS (all need categories closed, no new cases) could petition under "job jeopardy" to allow someone to open a case if they were in danger of losing their job due to a disability. They still had to qualify for VR services, but it was a way of bypassing the OOS in that agency. I think that can still coexist with the constraints that you describe. 

This customer is applying for services in a different VR agency and is hearing different things. I think your suggestion about CAP is a really good one. 

I don't want to make assumptions of malintent from the VR counselor, but I am doing my best to learn how the system works to help a newly blind person get what they need. 

Stay well,

Justin


Justin Mark Hideaki Salisbury
he/him/his

Phone: 808.797.8606
Email: President at Alumni.ECU.edu
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-salisbury  
ResearchGate: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Justin_Salisbury 

 
“Once social change begins, it cannot be reversed. You cannot un-educate the person who has learned to read. You cannot humiliate the person who feels pride. You cannot oppress the people who are not afraid anymore.”

Cesar Chavez



-----Original Message-----
From: Rehab <rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Lucy Alexander via Rehab
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 6:57 PM
To: Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List <rehab at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Lucy Alexander <heyitslu at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Rehab] Informed Choice in Job Jeopardy Cases

Hi, Justin,

A person who is in danger of losing a job due to an acquired disability must still qualify for VR services. A person is eligible if the person has a disability which results in a substantial impediment to employment, requires VR services, and can benefit from services.
The fact that the person has a job and is in danger of losing the job does not preclude the person from needing to be eligible for services.
When an agency enters an order of selection the most severely disabled people, requiring the greatest number of services for the longest period of time are prioritized in the highest category, which will be served first by date of application when the agency has funding to serve individuals again. We are currently in the fourth quarter of the
2020 federal fiscal year, and due to a number of factors, while I am sadden, I am not surprised that an agency is no longer serving new applicants. In this situation, the person needing assistance should apply as soon as possible for VR services.

The matter of informed choice is a different ball of wax. If a person is to be served through VR, the person must have an agreed upon and signed IPE. Under the law, informed choice must be provided. As another stated, informed choice does not mean that the client/consumer will receive whatever is asked of the agency, only that the agency is obligated to provide information regarding choices. If the agency is not currently serving new applicants, services for which payment must be rendered are not options. If the agency is able to provide services such as guidance and counseling, vocational evaluations and assessments, or job placement in house, the client/consumer may be able to receive such services but may not be able to choose a different service provider as the agency is not able to pay for the services rendered by an outside contractor.

The situation you have describe lends me to believe that this person is likely in need of training and equipment at the very least.
Training is a substantial service, which would, in my opinion, require an IPE. Clients/consumers have the right to have a person of their choosing assist them in writing an IPE. The agency does not have to agree to the proposed IPE, but the client/consumer does have that right. The client/consumer also has the right to have the decision reviewed by the agency, called administrative review, and the right to contact the client assistant program and ask questions when something sounds not right. If further explanation by a supervisor yields similar results, I would suggest this person contact the appropriate client assistance program, explain the situation, and have the CAP become involved. This person could also request a knowledgeable advocate, maybe through the NFB, attend meetings with the VRC assigned to the case.

It is my hope that this situation involves a miscommunication or new VRC.

Good luck,
Lucy


On 8/6/20, Ericka via Rehab <rehab at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> A new counselor is in order and help from disability rights at the 
> very least to get proper services is necessary.
>
> Spounds like a cost cutting measure by the office of the blind.
>
> Ericka Nelson
>
>> On Aug 6, 2020, at 5:11 PM, Justin Salisbury via Rehab 
>> <rehab at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks so much, everyone,
>>
>> I am referring to a new referral (someone who just went blind during 
>> the pandemic who really needs some support for their own safe travel, 
>> making food, and all the other things that a person might struggle 
>> with after sudden vision loss. There is some lack of clarity on 
>> whether the VR agency is accepting job jeopardy cases, but the person 
>> qualifies under that designation so far as I understand it. I guess 
>> they had a virtual meeting with a VR counselor who told them they 
>> could get VR services for job jeopardy, but there would be no IPE and no informed choice.
>>
>> They are also being told that job jeopardy cases only exist to keep a 
>> person employed with their current employer, and the VR counselor 
>> wants to work to get the person demoted to a receptionist at their 
>> current place of employment. This does not sound like a good fit for 
>> this person, in their opinion or mine. It would be a pay cut as well 
>> as a substantial drop in intellectual stimulation and physical 
>> activity. Job jeopardy is supposed to be about helping a person keep their current job, right?
>>
>> Thanks all,
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rehab <rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Dick Davis via 
>> Rehab
>> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 4:51 PM
>> To: Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List <rehab at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Dick Davis <ddavis at blindinc.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rehab] Informed Choice in Job Jeopardy Cases
>>
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> There are two kinds of rehabilitation cases, as far as I know, and 
>> both of them require IPE's or at least IPE amendments. Informed 
>> Choice is a federal right; it is not up to agency discretion.
>>
>> If an agency is under Order of Selection (OOS) and not accepting new 
>> clients, they still must accept applications for services and provide 
>> information and referral, counseling, and other services that will 
>> help the individual in the meantime. They just can't pay for things.
>>
>> If there are several free service options available to the person, 
>> there should be no reason why he or she whoudl be denied informed 
>> choice.  But in that case, the individual will need to choose between 
>> whatever services are available.
>>
>> The above is the case with a new rehabilitation program.  If the 
>> person has been served in the past, they should be able to jump over 
>> the OOS and receive Post-Employment Services (PES).  There may be 
>> some service limitations under PES, but there is still the need for 
>> an IPE, and persons receiving PES cannot be denied their informed 
>> choice  rights under federal law.
>>
>> Hope this sheds some light on the issue.
>>
>> Best,
>> Dick Davis
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rehab <rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Justin Salisbury 
>> via Rehab
>> Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 11:44 AM
>> To: Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List <rehab at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [Rehab] Informed Choice in Job Jeopardy Cases
>>
>> Hi Justin,
>>
>> I was not aware that there was a difference between job retention and 
>> job jeopardy cases. I thought the whole idea was that VR prioritizes 
>> serving people who are at risk of losing their jobs (in job 
>> jeopardy), so they provide services to help the person with job retention.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rehab <rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Justin Williams 
>> via Rehab
>> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 12:01 PM
>> To: 'Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List' <rehab at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Justin Williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Rehab] Informed Choice in Job Jeopardy Cases
>>
>> Justin, do they mean job retention?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Justin
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rehab [mailto:rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin 
>> Salisbury via Rehab
>> Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:58 AM
>> To: Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List <rehab at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [Rehab] Informed Choice in Job Jeopardy Cases
>>
>> Hi Ian,
>>
>> Thank you for your reply.
>>
>> This person was told that job jeopardy cases do not get IPE's. This 
>> person is in a state with a fully closed Order of Selection, so that 
>> nobody can sign up for VR services. Apparently, the state is trying 
>> to figure out how to start serving people via job jeopardy cases 
>> first, so they think they can give job jeopardy services but not sign 
>> people up for a VR case with an IPE.
>> Does a standard job jeopardy case involve an Individualized Plan for 
>> Employment?
>>
>> This person was told that there was no ability to choose their own 
>> vendors, such as who they might want to work with to receive 
>> rehabilitation teaching services. This agency tries to deny informed 
>> choice with every single one of their customers, so it's not really 
>> surprising, but I was skeptical of their argument that job jeopardy 
>> cases did not afford customers informed choice.
>>
>> Do you have more info to add?
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Justin
>>
>>
>> Justin Mark Hideaki Salisbury
>> he/him/his
>>
>> Phone: 808.797.8606
>> Email: President at Alumni.ECU.edu
>> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-salisbury
>> ResearchGate: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Justin_Salisbury
>>
>>
>> "Once social change begins, it cannot be reversed. You cannot 
>> un-educate the person who has learned to read. You cannot humiliate 
>> the person who feels pride. You cannot oppress the people who are not afraid anymore."
>>
>> Cesar Chavez
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rehab <rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Ian Shadrick via 
>> Rehab
>> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 10:50 AM
>> To: Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List <rehab at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Ian Shadrick <ian.shadrick at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Rehab] Informed Choice in Job Jeopardy Cases
>>
>> Justin,
>>
>> What was the rationale for not having the person on an IPE? Even with 
>> a job in jeopardy case this should still be on an IPE. Informed 
>> choice should apply to any service received from the agency. It does 
>> not of course imply that the client receieves anything they choose 
>> but one the less is still an important consideration for the client 
>> and in the life of the case.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Ian
>>
>> Ian Shadrick Ed.D., CRC, CVRT
>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 21:46 Justin Salisbury via Rehab 
>>> <rehab at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> I have a friend who was told very recently by a VR counselor that 
>>> informed choice doesn't apply to job jeopardy cases. Allegedly, 
>>> informed choice only applies when people have Individualized Plans 
>>> for Employment, and job jeopardy cases do not receive Individualized 
>>> Plans for Employment. I am sincerely doubtful. Can anyone help 
>>> explain this to
>> me?
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Justin
>>>
>>>
>>> Justin Mark Hideaki Salisbury
>>> he/him/his
>>>
>>> Phone: 808.797.8606
>>> Email: President at Alumni.ECU.edu<mailto:President at Alumni.ECU.edu>
>>> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-salisbury
>>> ResearchGate: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Justin_Salisbury
>>>
>>>
>>> "Once social change begins, it cannot be reversed. You cannot 
>>> un-educate the person who has learned to read. You cannot humiliate 
>>> the person who feels pride. You cannot oppress the people who are 
>>> not
>> afraid anymore."
>>>
>>> Cesar Chavez
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rehab mailing list
>>> Rehab at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> Rehab:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/ian.shadrick%40gm
>>> ai
>>> l.com
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rehab mailing list
>> Rehab at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Rehab:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/president%40alumni.ecu.
>> ed
>> u
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rehab mailing list
>> Rehab at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Rehab:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4
>> 0gmai
>> l.
>> com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rehab mailing list
>> Rehab at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Rehab:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/president%40alumni.ecu.
>> edu
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rehab mailing list
>> Rehab at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Rehab:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/ddavis%40blindinc.
>> org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rehab mailing list
>> Rehab at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Rehab:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/president%40alumni
>> .ecu.edu _______________________________________________
>> Rehab mailing list
>> Rehab at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Rehab:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/dotwriter1%40gmail
>> .com
> _______________________________________________
> Rehab mailing list
> Rehab at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Rehab:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/heyitslu%40gmail.co
> m
>

_______________________________________________
Rehab mailing list
Rehab at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Rehab:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/president%40alumni.ecu.edu

More information about the Rehab mailing list