[Sportsandrec] Fw: Some questions.

Tue Mar 17 00:23:32 UTC 2009

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steffen Lehmann" <steffen at goalball.de>
To: <list at goalballinfo.com>; <list at goalballnetwork.com>
Cc: "Jim Leask" <Jim.Leask at univarusa.com>
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 12:50 PM
Subject: FW: Some questions.


> Please find below an email corespondence between Jim Leask and me.
> The reason: From some of you I got answers and comments to ask the sub
> committee.
> Unfortunately I couldn't get any answer for you. Not only you, also me,
> asked a couple of questions and it is the same - no senseful answer.
> Can somebody tell me what my function in the sub committee is / was / will
> be?
> If you are still interessted in getting your emails answered please resend
> your email to Jim.Leask at univarusa.com and please copy me in your email. I
> also like to know the answer. Perhabs you will get a better response.
> I don't know if it is professional and transparent to reply questions with
> an answer or not to answer questions at all.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Leask [mailto:Jim.Leask at univarusa.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 3:09 AM
> To: Steffen Lehmann
> Cc: Al Wareham (igregistrar at personainternet.com); Asude Ozturk; Clive
> Spencer; George Thomas; Steve Kearney; Warner Xavier de Camargo
> (wagner_xavier at itelefonica.com.br)
> Subject: RE: Some questions.
>
>
> I think this is the only way that the sub committee can operate in a
> professional manner and ensure that we stay athlete based and be far to 
> all
> stakeholders. So I look forward to your response on Sunday and I will 
> answer
> all of the questions that the various people have posed.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steffen Lehmann [mailto:steffen at goalball.de]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 2:58 PM
> To: Jim Leask
> Cc: Steffen Lehmann
> Subject: RE: Some questions.
>
> Is this the way the sub committee works? Transparent? Professional? 
> Athletes
> based?
> I still don't know what influence the person who asked will have on your
> answer.
> I'll wait for your answer. On Sunday I'm back home and I'll send this 
> email
> to answer the questions.
> thanks.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jim Leask [mailto:Jim.Leask at univarusa.com]
>> Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 6:24 AM
>> To: Steffen Lehmann
>> Subject: RE: Some questions.
>>
>>
>> As noted in my previous response please provide the name of
>> person and  their country  asking the question and I will provide
>> the appropriate answers.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Steffen Lehmann [mailto:steffen at goalball.de]
>> Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 1:18 PM
>> To: Jim Leask
>> Subject: RE: Some questions.
>>
>> I have to follow my task and to sent our answer to the athletes.
>> Do you already have some answers?
>>
>
> In my opinion does the information that you are requesting not relate to
> answering the question. I just collect the data by the teams/athletes and
> forward it to you without mentioning names and countries unless someone 
> has
> a very special inquiery that needs a special answer. Most questions are
> general and are related to many teams/athletes/countries.
> Thank you for answering the questions!
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jim Leask [mailto:Jim.Leask at univarusa.com]
>> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 10:35 PM
>> To: Steffen Lehmann
>> Subject: RE: Some questions.
>>
>>
>> Please provide me with the specifics information  for each
>> question  , the information I need is which individual (by name)
>> from which country asked the question. This is imperative to
>> provide an answer that is appropriate
>>
>> Thank you .
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Steffen Lehmann [mailto:steffen at goalball.de]
>> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 3:23 PM
>> To: Jim Leask; Wagner Xavier Camargo; Stephen Kearney; Clive
>> Spencer; Asude Ozturk; Allan Wareham; George Thomas
>> Subject: RE: Some questions.
>>
>> Jim,
>>
>> I got the emails from Sweden, Finland, USA and Germany. From players,
>> coaches and also referees.
>> I'll send my email with the questions I sent to the committee
>> including all
>> answers I will receive as attachment.
>> Thanks and talk to you on Sunday.
>> Steffen
>>
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Jim Leask [mailto:Jim.Leask at univarusa.com]
>> > Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 2:06 AM
>> > To: Steffen Lehmann; Wagner Xavier Camargo; Stephen Kearney; Clive
>> > Spencer; Asude Ozturk; Allan Wareham; George Thomas
>> > Subject: RE: Some questions.
>> >
>> >
>> > Steffen , I have read the first question and it is factually
>> > incorrect , the second question I already answered from Boris,
>> > and thirdly I  personally will NOT me changing any of the rules
>> > as this will be decided at our meeting next week which you will
>> > be part of. Before I answer any of the questions posed I would
>> > like to know who submitted the question and how the answers will
>> > be transmitted to the person who asked the question.
>> >
>> > Thanks  and as soon as I receive your reply I will answer these
>> > questions in a timely manner.
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Steffen Lehmann [mailto:steffen at goalball.de]
>> > Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 2:55 PM
>> > To: Wagner Xavier Camargo; Stephen Kearney; Steffen Lehmann; Jim
>> > Leask; Clive Spencer; Asude Ozturk; Allan Wareham; George Thomas
>> > Subject: Some questions.
>> >
>> > Committee,
>> >
>> > during the last weeks I got several questions / emails. I'll put
>> > all together here and have to send out your answers not later
>> > then March 8th.
>> >
>> > The first question is something new for me. The following email
>> I got this
>> > week:
>> >
>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > 1. Goalballinfo website
>> >
>> > Have you heard that IBSA executive committee has discussed the
>> > issue that IBSA goalball sub-committee had open up
>> > www.goalballinfo.com without any approval from IBSA itself?
>> > As I have heard the Executive committee members were all saying
>> > that it is not acceptable if different sports and committees
>> > start own web-sites.
>> > The chairman for the sub-committee had not asked for permission
>> > and should be told that they have to shut down the site or take
>> > away all IBSA logos. So if this is correct, I got quite confused
>> > about which is the official IBSA Goalball site?
>> > I would just like to know, because this evokes an interesting
>> > situation since Jim tried to stop Goalball network and now it
>> > seems like obviously this official site may not be approved either.
>> >
>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > 2. Rule proposals: changes, tests and complaints
>> >
>> > Some nations react on the rule proposals with new suggestions
>> > based on these tested one. It has been suggested to start one
>> > year earlier with the whole process as it obvious does take some
>> > time. That means one more year time to try things out, to work on
>> > proposals, to react and to have a second or third round to try /
>> > test proposals.
>> >
>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > The first attachment to this email is what we agreed on in
>> > Beijing. The second attachment is about what the teams in Finland
>> > think we decided and what they got to test out. I think the
>> > tournament in Finland did not play all new rule proposals as I
>> > have spoken to players and coaches that were there.
>> > As I'm a member of the sub committee next time I'd like to know
>> > what the committee decides and if the committee changes
>> > something. Otherwise I can see no use of having a committee that
>> > is suppose to work together for the development of the sport.
>> > Below one more email. Last weekend I played with my team in
>> > Sweden and I heard that there was one new thing discussed. Where
>> > does the defender have to stand during a penalty situation. We
>> > never talked about this and  we neither agreed in the proposals
>> > in Beijing nor can I find anything in the document which Finland
>> > got from the sub committee.
>> > So why are these 2 papers, what we decided in Beijing and the one
>> > what was tested in Finland, so different?
>> > I didn't hear any complains from African nations about the third
>> > time throw!
>> > And why has it been decided once that all nations can modify the
>> > rules for national competitions but later we do everything to
>> > cancel what the nations want?
>> >
>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Here the mail from a participant of the Finland tournament:
>> > We did test the penalty rule where we had to stay at the
>> > centerline of the goal-line until the referee said "play", then
>> > we could move. But no one did agree or like that proposal that
>> > you also can see was sent out to the teams.
>> > Most liked to have it as it is today.
>> >
>> > As you also can see from the file we got before the test
>> > competition, the third time throw was not among the rules that we
>> > should test.
>> >
>> > At the rule meeting on the evening before the competition there
>> > were people that asked why the third time throw that was in the
>> > Beijing proposals should not be tested.
>> > Jim told then that the third time rule shall stay because the
>> > massive negative feedback the sub-committee got.
>> > When people then asked why people had been negative, he told that
>> > most of the negative feedback came from developing countries,
>> > like countries from the African and South America continents.
>> > They were negative since they have few good players and often
>> > just one good thrower. If the third time rule should be taken
>> > away, the good player will do all throws and there is no rule
>> > that will limit him/her to throw and pass the ball.
>> >
>> > We were some that then said "When people do not like the proposal
>> > 2*12 minutes because it will be difficult to organize
>> > tournaments, you say that "you can have whatever time you like at
>> > home, but at paralympics we need extended game time to develop
>> the sport".
>> > You should then answer those who want to keep the third time
>> > throw in the same way. Tell them that "you can use the third time
>> > throw at home, but at Paralympics and World Championships the
>> > teams are very competitive over all and there is no need for a
>> > rule like this at that level, we need to develop our sport and
>> > adapt goalball rules to other high level sports and no other
>> > similar sport do have a rule that limits players skills and
>> > capacity like this".
>> > we did not get any relevant answer to why you should not answer
>> > in the same way for third time throw lik he did regarding other
>> > rules. There really is no relevant argument to keep this rule.
>> > Should a team have just one good thrower, the other team can have
>> > as tactic to throw on opposite side to make it difficult for that
>> > player to get the ball etc.
>> >
>> > So the fact is that Beijing proposal includes that third time
>> > throw shall go away and out from rules, and there have not come
>> > any single relevant feedback to why third time throw is needed in
>> > goalball at Paralympic or World Championships level.
>> > Third time throw is the very most odd and confusing rule that we
>> > still have compared to other sports. This makes it difficult for
>> > people that do not know the sport to understand the need for this
>> > rule and it just limits players possibility to use the teams
>> > capability. Goalball as sport do not gain anything at all if we
>> > keep this, we just loose respect compared to other sports since
>> > this rule is seen as a "social rule" that rather is based on
>> > socialization than on performance in the sport.
>> >
>> > For me it is also unbelievable that if you first think that you
>> > shall cancel a rule and then get protests, you really, really
>> > should use the possibility to test to take away the third time
>> > throw to see how that effects the game.
>> > Now when the third time throw was not in the list we get before
>> > the test tournament, we just said to each other "well, then they
>> > are very convinced to cancel the rule so they not even think it
>> > is any need to test it".
>> >
>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > 3. Working on tasks
>> >
>> > The third attachment are the minutes from the tournament in
>> > Sweden last weekend. I heard there are also minutes from Finland?
>> > I ask you to distribute them to the whole sub committee.
>> >
>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > During the sub committee meeting in Turkey 2007 we got some
>> > tasks. In my opinion some have already been clarified, but some not.
>> >
>> > - Dina Murdie wanted to simplify the rule book. I have heard it
>> > she has finished it. Is the file for public use and where will it
>> > be accessible?
>> > * What does "finished" mean? Can we distribute it to all nations?
>> >
>> > - Iraq wanted to pay a price money for the first 3 places on a
>> > tournament in 2009. Was the price money refused or not?
>> > Will be reviewed at the sub Committee meeting .
>> > * Was not reviewed.
>> >
>> > - The examination results for classifications by the eye
>> > specialists should be standardized.
>> > How far is this project? Is there already an database for all
>> > papers / pages / already passed exames?
>> > Will be reviewed at the sub Committee meeting .
>> > * Was not reviewed.
>> >
>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Quite a few months have already passed since the 2008 Paralympic
>> > Games in Beijing. I had a look in the minutes Stephen took there.
>> > While doing that some questions arose and maybe you can help me
>> > and clarify them.
>> > I would also suggest to write either an action list after the
>> > meetings of who will have to do what and by what time limit. This
>> > can also be combined as a minute/action plan. This way it will be
>> > easier to follow certain tasks we overtake till the next meeting
>> > or telephone conferences.
>> > Since we all have a another job beside Goalball we need to make
>> > things easier and more workable.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > IBSA Goalball Committee Meeting
>> > BIT Goalball Venue Goalball Office
>> > Beijing, China
>> > September 4-6, 2008   Agenda
>> > Notes: by Stephen Kearney
>> >
>> > 1. Quote: "Mr. Grevemberg informed the committee as to the number
>> > of athletes 4,960"
>> >
>> > * There were only 4000 slots for athletes. Has that been changed
>> > in the minutes how I already pointed out earlier?
>> >
>> > 2. "Gene Scott will be data gathering information on the athletes
>> > this information will be done over the next 10 days. She also
>> > will gather data on new rules line out calls etc. She will have a
>> > report for the committee within two after the games."
>> >
>> > * When will these reports be available?
>> >
>> > 3. "A cooperation of hosts of tournaments with goalballinfo.com"
>> >
>> > * Nothing so far has been done for the tournament in Finland.
>> > Any ideas for further tournaments in 2009?
>> >
>> > 4. "The need for a media person selected to the committee. This
>> > person could be a voting member of the committee."
>> >
>> > * When / where can this person be elected? Was anybody already
>> contacted?
>> >
>> > 5. "Jim will write a code of conduct and will send it to the
>> > committee members for review using a skype meeting by January 1, 2009"
>> >
>> > * Do you already have already something? Can the committee
>> > support you in any way?
>> >
>> > 6. "Jim is going to select 3 members from the committee to help
>> > write a policy on equipment."
>> >
>> > * Has that already been done?
>> > Who are the members, if already elected?
>> >
>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Jim, please write a short feedback to the following paragraph I
>> > already sent out in a previous email:
>> >
>> > > I couldn't find any advise that Finland was elected to be the
>> > > tournament where the proposals were tried out. Or was there any
>> > > announcement what passed me? I checked Clives calendar and I got
>> > > nothing for our homepage. The first time I heard that Finland is the
>> > > tournament for the test was in an email from you on January 16th.
>> > > I thought I'm the athlete's representative and I got none information
>> > > that there was an athlete's meeting.
>> >
>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > We were talking to make goalball more professional. We will never
>> > be more professional when we in the sub committee will not
>> > exchange information or even worse, hide information. The way to
>> > be transparent is another. To be really an athletes and sport
>> > centralized sub committee, which really wants to hear and follow
>> > the opinions from the athletes we have to listen more carefully
>> > to them. And only when we are working together and not against
>> > each other we and our work will be excepted. It is not acceptable
>> > that decisions are being taken out by single individuals or in
>> > the name of the sub committee without informing it.
>> >
>> > The deadline for the answers will be March 8th.
>> >
>> > I wish you all a nice week!
>> >
>> > Steffen Lehmann
>> > Germany
>> > Athlete's Representative in IBSA's Sub Committee Goalball
>> >
>>
>