[stylist] A New Member

[Judith Bron]

Yes, you are right.  I am often told, "You don't look blind."  This is true 
because the damage to my eyes is in my retina.  In the end, I am no less 
legally blind than the next person.  However, I don't think all kinds and 
types have to grow up in environments conducive to their disability, race, 
religion or ethnicity.  We are a diverse planet.  Somehow, we have to learn 
that not everyone is the same.  Easy to say, but we haven't been very good 
in teaching or learning the lesson.  Judith
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
To: "NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member


> Judith,
>
> I think in a lot of ways, comparing blind and deaf communities or blind 
> people with other blind people is like comparing apples and oranges.  For 
> people who are born deaf, sign language is their "native tongue" and 
> English is truly a second language.  People like John who are not only 
> born deaf but born into a deaf family have the opportunity to grow up in 
> their natural community.  Many blind people are squeezed out of their 
> natural communities and need to graft themselves into another community, 
> whether it is sighted or blind.  What works for one doesn't necessarily 
> work for another.  I find that many blind people who have had the fortune 
> to be born into families who are upper middle class have no appreciation 
> for or understanding of the fact that social status and economic security 
> have their benefits even when the relationships are not happy ones.  I 
> just think we should be more tolerant of one another's differences.  I 
> think the sighted world often pits us one against another with comments 
> like "You don't look blind" or "You're more adjusted to your blindness 
> than other blind people I've seen," and so on.  Any thoughts?
> Donna
>
> -- 
> For my bio & to hear clips from The Last Straw:
> http://cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>
> Apple I-Tunes
>
> phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244374
>
> Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind
> www.padnfb.org
>
>
>
>
>
> Judith Bron wrote:
>> I was talking to someone about being blind and accepted as an individual. 
>> I said to her, "This is me.  Accepting me as me is like accepting you 
>> with brown hair."  One can look at the blind population today and marvel 
>> that they got this far, but it wasn't always like that.  Not so long ago, 
>> the blind were not accepted by society.  With groups like the NFB and 
>> more avenues being opened to the blind, it is easy to look at us and say 
>> we made it.  But we haven't, at least not yet.  Perhaps it is easier to 
>> communicate with the blind because we all communicate via the spoken 
>> word.  Since communication with the def community is often accomplished 
>> in different formats like signing many might think that overcoming this 
>> barrier is too difficult.  I know several deaf people who read lips. 
>> Perhaps that makes it easier to communicate with the world at large. 
>> Judith ocess the  -----  Original Message ----- From: "John Lee Clark" 
>> <johnlee at clarktouch.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 3:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>
>>
>>> Angela:
>>>
>>> The deaf, too, seek to be equals.  But does the blind's seeking for 
>>> equality
>>> extend to being the SAME as sighted people as well as equal?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Angela fowler
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 2:08 PM
>>> To: 'NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>>
>>> John, from what I have been reading there is a fundamental difference
>>> between the blind community and the deaf community, and it has to do 
>>> with
>>> communication. There isn't the communication gap between blind and 
>>> sighted
>>> people that there is between deaf and hearing people. Until that is
>>> resolved, deaf people need their own culture, to satisfy that natural 
>>> human
>>> need to belong and be excepted. Blind people, or at least those of us in 
>>> the
>>> federation, seek an equal standing in mainstreamed society, to be 
>>> excepted
>>> among our sighted peers as equally vital and equally capable.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of John Lee Clark
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 11:16 AM
>>> To: 'NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>>
>>> Dave:
>>>
>>> I am a big fan of segregation with gates.  This means the separation is 
>>> not
>>> at all complete but at the same time it's not complete integration.  I 
>>> don't
>>> know what it's like in the blind community or what values you all have, 
>>> but
>>> in the deaf community, those who went to public schools and were
>>> "integrated" invariably, when they are adults, wish they hadn't gone to
>>> public school but instead to deaf schools.
>>>
>>> You understand, those who went to public schools grew up feeling 
>>> inferior
>>> and rejected.  Many of them would, in a misguided effort to make 
>>> friends,
>>> try to act hearing and would try all sorts of unhealthy tactics to try 
>>> and
>>> be accepted.  Girls, for example, would discover early that giving 
>>> hearing
>>> boys sexual favors would get them momentary attention and they can't 
>>> figure
>>> out why they always get dumped afterwards.  There is a wealth of 
>>> research
>>> that shows that deaf children in public schools develop very serious
>>> psychological problems and are ill-adjusted and "weak."
>>>
>>> Because of these problems, they do not do well in life.  They're not
>>> assertive, self-sufficient, etc.  Many would start over from square one
>>> after discovering on their own the deaf community.  They'd rebuild
>>> themselves, build up their self-esteem, etc. and it's only then that 
>>> they
>>> start having a real life and to succeed--both in the deaf and hearing
>>> worlds.
>>>
>>> To get the best of both worlds, a balancing act between the two doesn't
>>> work--it is too stressful and rife with failures.  Nor does trying to
>>> integrate completely in the hearing world work, because deaf people just
>>> aren't hearing people and their trying to be is actually very
>>> counterproductive.  The more they try, the more disappointing the 
>>> results
>>> and the more the hearing reject them.  What works is for the deaf to 
>>> have
>>> their own home base where they belong completely and are at complete 
>>> ease,
>>> and then they are also guests of the hearing world.  As guests, they 
>>> don't
>>> try to be hearing or like them, don't try to downplay their differences.
>>> They just are themselves, and as guests, they do get a lot of respect 
>>> and
>>> the hearing are usually good and gracious hosts.
>>>
>>> The deaf colleges are wonderful not only in giving deaf people a higher
>>> education, but in helping them start over if they are coming in from 
>>> public
>>> schools and hearing families.  At those colleges, the public school
>>> graduates are reborn.  Those whwo went to deaf schools simply continue 
>>> their
>>> education in the same totally accessible way they've enjoyed at deaf
>>> schools.
>>>
>>> Did having those deaf colleges result in a deaf ghetto?  No.  There is 
>>> no
>>> such thing.  The result is that most of them are confident and strong
>>> individuals, and it is extremely difficult for hearing people to 
>>> manipulate
>>> them.  Those who never went to deaf schools or deaf colleges are like, 
>>> you
>>> know, Uncle Toms, like Oreos, black on the outside, but white inside.
>>> They're pushovers, for the most part.
>>>
>>> Don't get me wrong.  The mainstream has its uses, and it's good to be 
>>> mobile
>>> in it, to work in it, and to milk it for resources such as income and
>>> clothes and such.  But because the deaf have a complete, 
>>> highly-developed
>>> culture, they don't need to "belong" elsewhere, and being part of the
>>> mainstream just isn't desirable.  And I am in line with it, because, to 
>>> be
>>> honest with you, American mainstream culture leaves a great deal to be
>>> desired.
>>>
>>> Now, I don't know what blind people's values are.  From your message, it
>>> seems you are against any sort of segregation.  Does that mean your goal 
>>> is
>>> inclusion in mainstream society?
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of David Andrews
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 10:45 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>>
>>> The notion of having a "blind college" seems to be a mixed bag at best, 
>>> to
>>> me.  It smacks of segregation, the blind ghetto, and doesn't seem like
>>> progress to me.  We have to live in a sighted world, so that sort of
>>> segregation is only putting off the inevitable.
>>>
>>> I understand, for whatever it is worth, that the deaf marry within their 
>>> own
>>> community more then any other disability group.  I presume it is a
>>> communication thing.  While deaf persons "appear" to be more "normal" 
>>> than
>>> blind persons, the communication thing is a huge barrier.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> At 09:07 PM 12/27/2008, you wrote:
>>>> Yeah, there are blind counselors.
>>>>
>>>> But my previous point was that, in the deaf community, the employment
>>>> of deaf people is absolutely necessary in many, many fields.  Take
>>>> group homes for mentally ill deaf people.  Having deaf residential
>>>> staff and social workers is an absolute requirement.  Only very, very
>>>> few hearing people are capable.  Or take marketing a new videophone
>>>> model to deaf consumers.  I am willing to bet that one hundred percent
>>>> of the marketing staff at all the video relay services companies are
>>>> deaf.  Deaf people can tell right off if you're hearing, and that 
>>>> makies it
>>> automatically harder to sell.
>>>>
>>>> But it seems to me in the blind fields, not many of them are controlled
>>>> through and through by blind people themselves.  Let me ask you: Why 
>>>> not?
>>>>
>>>> The deaf community also has four colleges predominatly populated by
>>>> deaf students.  As far as I know, there is no college that is all blind
>>>> or even mostly blind.  Why not?  Wouldn't it be cool if there was one?
>>>>
>>>> I don't know if this is true, but I recall my deafblind friend Rod
>>> Macdonald
>>>> joking that his local blind chapter should be called the Association of
>>>> Vending Machine Operators.  I gather that most of its members, if they
>>>> have a job, work in the vending machine industry.  Is this the number
>>>> one employer of blind people?  If not, what is?
>>>>
>>>> The number one source of employment for deafblind people is their own
>>>> language, ASL.  So they have a very safe hold on that!
>>>>
>>>> As for deafblind people, the unemployment is unbelievably high.  But
>>>> things are slowly changing as the telecommunications industry opens up 
>>>> to
>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of David Andrews
>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 7:51 PM
>>>> To: NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>>>
>>>> We have blind rehab counselors in Minnesota.  We provide them with
>>>> drivers, as needed, a reasonable accommodation.  They are only in the
>>>> field part of the time, so providing the drivers isn't a big deal.
>>>>
>>>> There have been blind counselors for a long time, and if New York has
>>>> none, something is really wrong.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> At 06:40 PM 12/27/2008, you wrote:
>>>> >Every counsellor I've had with the commission for the blind has been
>>>> >sighted.  They are required to drive to their clients.  Obviously
>>>> >blind people cannot fill these roles.  However, in teaching blind
>>>> >people to use adaptive equipment blind individuals do this in
>>>> >facilities for the blind.  I work with other handicaps, mostly mental
>>>> >disabilities, but have never worked with a blind person in
>>>> >rehabilitation.  Yes, we have a blind governor in New York State but
>>>> >he doesn't use adaptive equipment,, walk with a white cane or read
>>>> >braille.  I just keep forging ahead with my own thing.  Judith
>>>> >----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lee Clark"
>>>> <johnlee at clarktouch.com>
>>>> >To: "'NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 6:58 PM
>>>> >Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >>Judith:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Deafness is an invisible to most.  Deaf people can spot a deaf
>>>> >>person a
>>>> mile
>>>> >>away with the way their eyes move, but most hearing people don't
>>>> >>know anything until they'[re spoken to but don't respond, or if they
>>>> >>see them signing.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Blindness is more visible, certainly.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>But more accepted?  Maybe as objects of sexual desire, but other
>>>> >>than
>>>> that,
>>>> >>there's this difference in language.  Blind people speak the same
>>> language
>>>> >>with the mainstream.  For this reason, I think blind people have
>>>> >>greater potential for employment.  However, blind unemployment is
>>>> >>far higher
>>> than
>>>> >>deaf unemployment.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>I think blind people are in higher positions, but deaf people have
>>>> >>more jobs, just not as many in very high positions.  There are
>>>> >>several "industries" suited especially for deaf people.  One is the
>>>> >>ASL teaching industry.  As the second most popular foreign language
>>>> >>and the fastest growing, there are more than twenty thousand ASL
>>>> >>teachers in the
>>> country.
>>>> >>This industry includes performers for ASL videos, writers of ASL
>>>> textbooks,
>>>> >>tutors, etc.  Then there is the relay services industry.  Text
>>>> >>relay, CapTel, and most popular, video relay.  This is a
>>>> >>multi-billion dollar industry and employs many deaf people in
>>>> >>administration, training, and marketing.  A third source of
>>>> >>employment is working for the states, for departments of human
>>>> >>services and commissions and social work and also teaching in the
>>>> >>state schools for the deaf.  You understand, most
>>> services
>>>> >>provided to the deaf are provided by deaf people, too.  Not many
>>>> >>hearing people are capable or qualified to teach deaf children, give
>>>> >>counseling, train, whatever.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>But outside of these areas and other smaller businesses geared
>>>> >>toward
>>> the
>>>> >>deaf, they don't have much headway.  We don't have a deaf judge or a
>>> deaf
>>>> >>governor, but you've got blind people in those positions.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>I may be wrong but low blind employment may have to do with the fact
>>> blind
>>>> >>people are not required for meeting the needs of or providing
>>>> >>services
>>> to
>>>> >>the blind.  Maybe you've got a good source of employment in
>>>> >>vocational rehabilitation, but to me, it seems there are way too
>>>> >>many sighted
>>>> teachers,
>>>> >>trainers, counselors, and technicians that work with blind people.
>>>> >>And
>>> is
>>>> >>the fact that blindness is a great deal with SSDI a factor for the
>>>> >>high unemployment?  Deaf people can only earn up to eight hundred
>>>> >>dollars per month if they want to keep their SSDI, whereas blind
>>>> >>people can earn up
>>> to
>>>> >>twice that.  So it is more in the interest for the deaf to seek full
>>> time
>>>> >>jobs and less in the interest for the blind to do the same.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>What do you think?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>John
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>-----Original Message-----
>>>> >>From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> >>On Behalf Of Judith Bron
>>>> >>Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 5:16 PM
>>>> >>To: NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>> >>Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Could it be that deafness is more acceptable than blindness is that
>>>> >>deaf people don't look different?  In many cases the blind person's
>>>> >>eyes look different from the sighted person's eyes.  Judith
>>>> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
>>>> >>To: "NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >>Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 6:45 PM
>>>> >>Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>John,
>>>> >>>I understand your perspective and I am writing a novel with a blind
>>>> >>>character, but having grown up trying to be sighted and being
>>>> >>>taught to
>>>> be
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>sighted, I have information from that world as well and have
>>>> >>>written
>>> some
>>>> >>>fiction with non blind characters, simply to avoid having the story
>>>> >>>be about blindness, when the real point is more complicated as well
>>>> >>>as universal.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>I also can't help wondering, especially reading this particular
>>>> >>>post, about the difference between the blind and deaf communities.
>>>> >>>If the
>>>> blind
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>community were as large, independent and self-integrated as the
>>>> >>>deaf community and if blindness were as socially acceptable as
>>>> >>>deafness -- i.e., Marly Maitlin is a superstar and the only blind
>>>> >>>woman anyone
>>> knows
>>>> >>>is Helen Keller who died over fifty years ago, well, perhaps there
>>> would
>>>> >>>be a market for blindness-related literature.
>>>> >>>Donna
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>--
>>>> >>>For my bio & to hear clips from The Last Straw:
>>>> >>>http://cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>Apple I-Tunes
>>>> >>>
>>>>
>>>>>> phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924
>>>>>> 4374
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind
>>>> >>>www.padnfb.org
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>John Lee Clark wrote:
>>>> >>>>Shelley:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>Aside from my six-year run as publisher of my own publishing
>>> operation,
>>>> I
>>>> >>>>have been involved in the publishing world for twelve years.  I've
>>>> worked
>>>> >>>>with many, many writers, about half of them hearing sighted and
>>>> >>>>the
>>>> other
>>>> >>>>deaf sighted with a few deafblind.  While the quality of the
>>>> >>>>writing always plays a role in whether or not something gets
>>>> >>>>published, the deaf writers'
>>>> >>>>writing from the deaf perspective is always, always an advantage.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>No, I don't mean one needs to make a conscious effort to write 
>>>> >>>>"about"
>>>> >>>>being
>>>> >>>>deaf, in the didactic sense.  Just write about life--love, crime,
>>>> family,
>>>> >>>>whatever--but through deaf eyes, drawing from the deaf writer's
>>>> >>>>own observations and sensations.  Ha Jin, the well-known writer,
>>>> >>>>made the point in his latest book that there are too many writers
>>>> >>>>who write about
>>> stuff
>>>> >>>>they learned in a secondhand fashion, and readers can pick it up,
>>>> >>>>even though they may not be conscious.  The writer's describing
>>>> >>>>his or her
>>>> own
>>>> >>>>genuine observations and experiences for the purpose of describing
>>>> things
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>is
>>>> >>>>very important and lends the work with an aura of, a vibe exuding
>>>> >>>>authenticity.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>So that's one benefit of writing exactly what you know.  Another
>>>> >>>>boon
>>> to
>>>> >>>>any
>>>> >>>>writer is any type of outsiderhood.  If you look back on the
>>>> >>>>annals of literature, those who are "different" from the
>>>> >>>>establishment
>>> population
>>>> >>>>but
>>>> >>>>don't write from that different perspective don't get published
>>>> >>>>often,
>>>> or
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>if
>>>> >>>>they do, their work wears off quickly and they are forgotten.
>>>> >>>>Take
>>> the
>>>> >>>>example of Thomas Caldwell, who was deaf, but wrote as if he
>>>> wasn't.
>>> Who
>>>> >>>>knows him now?  Or take Richard Wright, a wonderful and
>>>> >>>>groundbreaking African American writer.  All of his books are
>>>> >>>>still in print, except one, and that was the only book he wrote
>>>> >>>>about only white people.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>You understand, there are tens of thousands sighted people writing
>>>> >>>>and trying to get published.  So I cannot imagine any use in
>>>> >>>>adding more
>>> of
>>>> >>>>the
>>>> >>>>same types of material to that pot.  There are only a limited
>>>> >>>>number
>>> of
>>>> >>>>genres and plots, and they all have been done over and over again.
>>> But
>>>> >>>>if
>>>> >>>>you're blind, and you're privileged to have different sensations
>>>> >>>>and a different touch in your observations, that's quite a
>>>> >>>>blessing and will help your work stand out amidst the awful racket
>>>> >>>>of the same old, same old that editors endure reading through week
>>>> >>>>after week.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>Now, my deaf writer friends, they all have found their most
>>>> >>>>important
>>>> and
>>>> >>>>rewarding publishing credits through their deaf material.  Many of
>>> them,
>>>> >>>>before they started workring with me, wrote only mainstream stuff,
>>>> >>>>thinking they would have a better chance.  Not so.  Take Raymond
>>>> >>>>Luczak: He has written over forty plays, but only twelve with deaf
>>>> >>>>characters.
>>> Thirteen
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>of
>>>> >>>>his plays have been produced.  All twelve deaf plays and one not
>>>> >>>>make
>>> up
>>>> >>>>the
>>>> >>>>thirteen, leaving the rest of his "hearing" plays still collecting
>>> dust.
>>>> >>>>He
>>>> >>>>has written four novels, only one with deaf characters.  No
>>>> surprise:
>>>> The
>>>> >>>>three mainstream works remain unpublished and the deaf one won a
>>>> >>>>prestigious fellowship and also a national first-novel contest and
>>>> >>>>will be coming
>>>> out
>>>> >>>>soon.  Raymond's "hearing" stuff is good and worthy of
>>>> >>>>publication,
>>> but
>>>> >>>>the
>>>> >>>>problem is that there are so many equally good stuff these days,
>>> because
>>>> >>>>there are so many well-trained writers from all those MFA programs.
>>>> >>>>Those
>>>> >>>>who get published are the ones with unique voices, original
>>>> >>>>twists, or those who bring to the reader authentic tastes of
>>>> >>>>different worlds.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>I once got a story from a good deaf writer.  It was about the 
>>>> >>>>Titanic.
>>> A
>>>> >>>>couple gets separated at the end, the woman rowed away while the
>>>> >>>>man sinks with the ship.  It was wonderfully researched and
>>>> >>>>detailed.  The
>>> writing
>>>> >>>>was
>>>> >>>>smooth and luminous.  In all the fundamental areas, it was a
>>>> >>>>superb story.
>>>> >>>>But it was never picked up, and the deaf writer could not
>>>> >>>>understand
>>> why
>>>> >>>>not, since it was one of her very best efforts.  The reason, of
>>> course,
>>>> >>>>is
>>>> >>>>that the Titanic as the backdrop for a love story has been done to
>>>> death.
>>>> >>>>It was already worn threadbare even before that movie with Leo and
>>> Kate.
>>>> >>>>But what if the couple was deaf?  They wake up because of the
>>>> >>>>great commotion outside their room sending vibrations to them.
>>>> >>>>They ask
>>> each
>>>> >>>>other what's going on.  Outside their room, they see people
>>>> running.
>>>> >>>>They
>>>> >>>>try to get someone to write to them on a notepad, but they're all
>>>> >>>>panicked.
>>>> >>>>So they have to investigate, and gradually, from all the visual
>>>> >>>>information, they begin to understand.  A sailor tries to put the
>>>> >>>>deaf woman in
>>> line
>>>> >>>>for
>>>> >>>>getting on a lifeboat, but she doesn't want to be separated from
>>>> >>>>her husband.  All sorts of misunderstandings, issues, correctives,
>>> etc.
>>>> >>>>occur.
>>>> >>>>And at the end, a twist on the classic separation thing: The deaf
>>> woman
>>>> >>>>decides to sink with her husband, so strong is their bond with
>>>> >>>>each
>>>> other
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>as
>>>> >>>>they come from a small community and the deaf woman cannot imagine
>>>> >>>>venturing out on her own amidst all those hearing strangers.
>>>> >>>>Now, isn't that a much better story?  A blind couple on the
>>>> >>>>Titanic
>>>> would
>>>> >>>>likewise be much better than the mainstream version and would
>>> definitely
>>>> >>>>stand out!
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>Incidentally, some of the hearing writers I've worked with but who
>>> have
>>>> >>>>connectins to the Deaf world, they also have found greater success
>>>> >>>>in publishing their work relating to the Deaf world as opposed to
>>>> >>>>their
>>>> more
>>>> >>>>mainstream fare.  Take Morgan Grayce Willow, an ASL interpreter.
>>>> >>>>Her biggest book credit is her work on interpreting.  Her most
>>>> >>>>prestigious magazine credit is for her essay "Double Language,"
>>>> >>>>about her
>>>> experiences
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>as
>>>> >>>>an interpreter.  She has published other stuff, but with much more
>>>> >>>>difficulty and less compensation.  Or take Pia Taavila, a
>>>> >>>>wonderful
>>> poet
>>>> >>>>and
>>>> >>>>professor of English, who is the daughter of deaf parents, or a
>>>> >>>>CODA
>>> as
>>>> >>>>we
>>>> >>>>call people like her--Children of Deaf Adults.  She has written
>>>> >>>>both mainstream stuff and stuff having to do with her upbringing
>>>> >>>>in a Deaf home and her continued link with the Deaf community.
>>>> >>>>You guessed it again:
>>>> >>>>Her
>>>> >>>>Deaf-related poems are more readily published and get higher
>>>> praise.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>It is not that they can't get published without the deaf material.
>>> They
>>>> >>>>can
>>>> >>>>and have.  But it is against greater, much greater odds that
>>>> they do.
>>>> >>>>Here
>>>> >>>>and there, they are able to be heard, able to be distinguished
>>>> >>>>from
>>> the
>>>> >>>>rest
>>>> >>>>clamoring for the same editor's attention.  And it's not that
>>>> >>>>writing from a different perspective will automatically get you
>>>> >>>>published.  The
>>> writing
>>>> >>>>still has to be good.  But it is a huge advantage in arresting the
>>>> >>>>editor's attention, curiosity, and interest.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>I don't know how the deaf writers could possibly try to write
>>> mainstream
>>>> >>>>stuff, or how you could avoid writing as a blind writer, but I
>>>> >>>>never could, never wanted to.  It feels fake and contrived to me.
>>>> >>>>It would take
>>> too
>>>> >>>>much
>>>> >>>>effort to pretend, to write about auditory things I never heard,
>>>> >>>>to
>>>> write
>>>> >>>>visual descriptions of what I have never seen.  I am of the
>>>> >>>>opinion
>>> that
>>>> >>>>"'catering" to the mainstream audience is self-defeating, because
>>> there
>>>> >>>>are
>>>> >>>>many writers that produce mainstream stuff and it's not like
>>>> >>>>they're "catering" but they're genuine because they ARE
>>>> >>>>mainstream.  I have always written straight from who and what I
>>>> >>>>am.  And I am not complaining
>>> about
>>>> >>>>my
>>>> >>>>inability to write mainstream stuff because I've been published in
>>>> POETRY
>>>> >>>>magazine twice, while there are thousands of poets who can only
>>>> >>>>dream about ever getting there; I've been published in
>>>> >>>>McSWEENEY'S, America's most hip literary journal; I've won all
>>>> >>>>those awards; my work has been
>>> broadcast
>>>> >>>>on
>>>> >>>>radio, including on the "Poem of the Day" program on Martha
>>>> >>>>Stewart;
>>> I'm
>>>> >>>>being interviewed by someone from The New Yorker right now; I've
>>>> >>>>been
>>> a
>>>> >>>>featured poet at an international cultural arts festival, flown
>>>> there
>>>> >>>>first-class and with all expenses paid . . .   so I guess I must be
>>>> doing
>>>> >>>>something right.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>No, that was not to brag at all.  That was purely to make my
>>>> >>>>point, to make my case for writing from a different angle, and to
>>>> >>>>encourage you and others to try doing that.  Hey, it can't hurt to
>>>> >>>>try, can it?
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>John
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>>> >>>>Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1865 -
>>>> >>>>Release Date: 12/26/2008
>>>> >>>>1:01 PM
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________
>>>> >>>>Writers Division web site:
>>>> >>>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>>> >>>><http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>stylist mailing list
>>>> >>>>stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> >>>>for
>>>> >>>>stylist:
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40epix.
>>>> ne
>>>> >>t
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) Database
>>>> >>>>version: 5.11420
>>>> >>>>http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) Database
>>>> >>>version: 5.11420
>>>> >>>http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>_______________________________________________
>>>> >>>Writers Division web site:
>>>> >>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>stylist mailing list
>>>> >>>stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> >>>for
>>>> >>>stylist:
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/jbron%40opton
>>>>> line
>>>> .n
>>>> >>et
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>>> >>Writers Division web site:
>>>> >>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>stylist mailing list
>>>> >>stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> >>for
>>>> >>stylist:
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/johnlee%40cla
>>>>> rkto
>>>> uc
>>>> >>h.com
>>>> >>
>>>> >>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> >>Checked by AVG.
>>>> >>Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1865 - Release Date:
>>>> 12/26/2008
>>>> >>1:01 PM
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>>> >>Checked by AVG.
>>>> >>Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1865 - Release Date:
>>>> 12/26/2008
>>>> >>1:01 PM
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>>> >>Writers Division web site:
>>>> >>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>stylist mailing list
>>>> >>stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> >>for stylist:
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/jbron%40opton
>>>>> line
>>>> .net
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>> >Writers Division web site:
>>>> >http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>> >
>>>> >stylist mailing list
>>>> >stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> stylist:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vis
>>>> i.co
>>>> m
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>>> >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1866 - Release Date:
>>>> >12/27/2008 8:49 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> stylist:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/johnlee%40clar
>>>> ktou
>>> c
>>>> h.com
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG.
>>>> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1865 - Release Date:
>>>> 12/26/2008
>>>> 1:01 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>>> Checked by AVG.
>>>> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1865 - Release Date:
>>>> 12/26/2008
>>>> 1:01 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> stylist:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vis
>>>> i.co
>>> m
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1866 - Release Date:
>>>> 12/27/2008 8:49 PM
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site:
>>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org 
>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> stylist:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/johnlee%40clarktouc
>>> h.com
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG.
>>> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1865 - Release Date: 
>>> 12/28/2008
>>> 12:00 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>> Checked by AVG.
>>> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1865 - Release Date: 
>>> 12/28/2008
>>> 12:00 AM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site:
>>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org 
>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> stylist:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site:
>>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org 
>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> stylist:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/johnlee%40clarktouc
>>> h.com
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG.
>>> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1865 - Release Date: 
>>> 12/28/2008
>>> 12:00 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>> Checked by AVG.
>>> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1865 - Release Date: 
>>> 12/28/2008
>>> 12:00 AM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site:
>>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org 
>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> stylist:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/jbron%40optonline.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org 
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> stylist:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40epix.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386)
>> Database version: 5.11420
>> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>>
>
>
>
>
> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386)
> Database version: 5.11420
> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> stylist:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/jbron%40optonline.net