[stylist] A New Member

Mon Dec 29 08:39:43 UTC 2008

Barbara:

Twins!  I have three sons, two of whom make up a pair of twins.  

To answer your question, Signing Exact English is not a language at all, but
merely a code for English.  The signs represent English words, just like how
Braille represents English.  But the signs are borrowed from ASL and
altered.  

Deaf people hate it because it is unnatural and unwieldly.  ASL evolved
naturally in seventeenth-century France among deaf people who lived in and
near Paris.  So it was perfectly designed for them and for utmost speed and
convenience and economy.  Its grammar is very different from English but
works wonderfully for signed communication.

ASL has many parameters that exist outside of word or sign units that are
completely lost when you use SEE.  You can just sign "tree" but there are
many ways to sign that one sign that makes it a big tree, a small tree, a
towering tree, a cut down tree, a moving tree, a dying tree, a tree with
many branches, a leafy tree, a naked tree, a tree with two trunks--the list
goes on--but you just make the sign for tree in a certain modified way, with
a classifier, and in that snap of time, you not only say tree but you
describe it.  In SEE, you have to sign all the words "The tree is very tall
and in fall colors," and what's more the signs in SEE are blockly and some
of the handshapes are hard to do easily in that order.  In ASL, in a
fraction of the time it takes to sign that in SEE, you convey this
information very gracefully and with only one basic sign with a classifier.

Dunno if that helps, but you're right, SEE is hated in the Deaf community.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Barbara Hammel
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 11:11 PM
To: NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member

At our church we used to have the deaf church.  A sign language class was 
offered and I took it for the first semester because the assistant pastor 
was teaching.  He could not speak well at all but he could be understood 
somewhat and he would show the sign to the class and then show me.  He 
allowed talking when someone would correct me when we'd practice with each 
other.  The second semester the pastor taught and he would not allow any 
talking and was ver unwilling for me to be in the class.  He could speak.  I

only attended one class.  I guess he thought the assistant's praise of me 
held no water for him.
|My twins are on the autism spectrum and if I need to teach a new sign, 
thankfully I have a friend who is hearing but knows sign language.
By the way, do deaf people not like signed English because it's more whole 
ideas than word for word?
Barbara

--------------------------------------------------
From: "John Lee Clark" <johnlee at clarktouch.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 7:50 PM
To: "'NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member

> Donna:
>
> Do you know that there are a few hearing blind people who are also 
> excellent
> ASL interpreters?  In most cases they learned because they had a deaf
> significant other.  But recently, a few blind signers learned from ASL
> classes by use of relay interpreters who simply "mirror" the teacher's
> signs, for them to follow with their hands.
>
> A different sign language?  There are two other sign languages in North
> America, one the Quebec sign language and the other the black sign 
> language,
> which is now almost gone.  Black signs came about in the deep South, where
> whites and blacks were separated in everything.
>
> Older ASL is a bit different than today's ASL, but signers of each can
> understand the other readily.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Donna Hill
> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 1:31 PM
> To: NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>
> John,
> I learned the alphabet from a deaf man who was into wilderness sports.
> We met when we were both asked to be part of a pilot project sponsored
> by the Sons of Norway called the Vinland National Healthsports Center,
> which was in Minnesota.  Not sure if they still exist, but in '81 or '82
> they wanted to test out their program on representatives of different
> disabilities.  I can't even remember his name, though I'm sure I have it
> somewhere as I did as series of radio programs on it for the Radio
> Information Center for the Blind in Philadelphia.  I remember thinking
> that with him being deaf and me blind, we wouldn't have much
> communication, but he was my favorite person in the class.  If only I
> had known computer in those days, we might have kept in touch.  He had a
> malamute named "Laska" who came with him and stayed outside at night.
>
> My mother-in-law didn't teach me anything other than "I love you," and
> apparently her parents used a different sign language than what is in
> use these days.
> Donna
>
> -- 
> For my bio & to hear clips from The Last Straw:
> http://cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>
> Apple I-Tunes
>
> phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244374
>
> Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind
> www.padnfb.org
>
>
>
>
>
> John Lee Clark wrote:
>> Donna:
>>
>> That's quite interesting about your husband's grandparents.  Do you know
> any
>> signs?
>>
>> Yes, there are all-deaf of absolutely everything.  They have their own
>> churches and sports leagues and beauty pagents and ASL Idol and Deaf 
>> World
>> Series of Poker and theater companies and even their own underground 
>> porn.
>> They have a lively filmmaking culture, but most of it is unknown to
>> Hollywood because the films have no sound at all.  Further, if there are
>> deaf people working in this or that, and if deaf people need it, they
> prefer
>> the deaf worker over calling a company and getting someone at random--car
>> mechanic, investment banker, plumber, real estate realtor, manicurist,
>> computer geek/troubleshooter, anything.  Oh, it's not that deaf people 
>> are
>> their only clients, but just that if a deaf person happens to work for
>> MasterCuts at a certain mall, that particular hair shop is going to see a
>> lot of deaf people.
>>
>> It boils down to communication, communication, communication.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Donna Hill
>> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 8:13 PM
>> To: NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>
>> John,
>> Lots of good points.  My husband's grandparents were both deaf and
>> consequently his mother grew up signing though she is a hearing person.
>> Her father was a furnature maker and his talents were exploited by his
>> employer -- not that there's anything terribly unusual about employers
>> exploiting their workers, but the stories in the family suggest that
>> some of what they got away with was because he was deaf and didn't have
>> other employment options.  The thing I remember is that they had their
>> own all-deaf church, some place in upstate New York.
>> Donna
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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