[stylist] When deaf go blind
John Lee Clark
johnlee at clarktouch.com
Mon Dec 29 19:14:19 UTC 2008
Robert:
I am surprised and pleased to learn that the commission in Nebraska has a
deafblind specialist. Can you introduce us two to each other by email off
the list? I am piloting a nationwide program that gives deafblind people
access to video relay service, so I would love to talk with her about that
and finding some participants in the state.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Robert Newman
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 11:46 AM
To: 'NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] When deaf go blind
Yes I have had several deafblind clients. You should also know, that the
Commission where I work has a deafblind specialist and she is deafblind
(legally blind and deaf and though she can some times hear part of what a
person is saying, she relies mostly on reading lips with the hearing and
sign with the deaf and deafblind. She also went to Galidat (Not sure how to
spell this colleges name).
Robert Leslie Newman
Email- newmanrl at cox.net
THOUGHT PROVOKER Website-
Http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of John Lee Clark
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 2:20 AM
To: 'NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] When deaf go blind
Robert:
As for the deaf community, there is some stigma related to blindness,
because it is such a visual culture. Probably similar to how the hearing
blind community might regard deafness--your primary sense as a hearing blind
person, and then imagining that being gone? So of course there is some fear
and stigma.
But the deaf community has a long history of relationships with deafblind
people. So the stigma is not cast in stone and can easily be wiped away.
How deafblind people do in the deaf community depends on two things. First,
whether or not the deafblind person signs. Not all deafblind people sign.
Second, whether or not the deafblind person is well-adjusted. If the
deafblind person is not listening to ASL tactually but trying to use his or
her eyes, deaf people lose interest and faith. Deafblind people in denial
aren't very pleasant people to be with and don't give the deaf clear
signals.
So it is important for the deafblind person to sign and also listen to ASL
tactually, which is a clear and standard communication method. Being
well-adjusted means the deafblind can articulate their needs, will be
assertive, and are socially mobile.
Whereas deafblind people who still cling to their fading vision, there are
many considerations: whether to sign big or small, at far or close range, or
under what lighting or contrast conditions. It is too complicated, and it
often still doesn'['t work, and so on.
Unfortunately, many deaf people going blind instinctively cling to their
eyesight and keep riding it to death. Many don't learn Braille or O and M
or tactile listening skills until after they're totally blind, and some
don't learn even then. In many states, there are not great deafblind role
models to help the newly deafblind. And because of the visual values of
deaf culture, I suppose they find it harder to let go. Many fear losing
their deaf friends if they acted more blind. Never mind that their avoiding
blind skills is what makes them lose their friends more than their going
blind itself.
Just my brief answers to your questions before I hit the sack. But I would
be glad to answer any more questions or expand on anything. Hey, have you
had any deafblind clients?
John
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Robert Newman
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 11:42 PM
To: 'NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: [stylist] When deaf go blind
John, talk to us about one of my all time interests in blindness. That is, I
like learning how a culture different from mine, reacts to blindness? And
you know, what would life be like to be blind there?
blind? culture group reacts to one of their own, when they show signs of
blindness.
So my specific request to you is, tell us about how the deaf community
reacts to a deaf person who is going blind. And what is the status of the
deafblind within the deaf culture? Please. And thank you.
(I would use it in a novel I am working on where a deaf guy is going blind,
he comes into the Rehab office and asks for help to cope with his on coming
blindness; he has Ushers syndrome, type 1.(born deaf and goes blind later
from something like RP).The counselor is blind. The deaf guy learns about
blindness and the blind guy learns about the deaf and deafblind. And of
course, there is a whole different story going on underneath this blindness
thing (but you don't get all the facts until the last page).
Robert Leslie Newman
Email- newmanrl at cox.net
THOUGHT PROVOKER Website-
Http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Donna Hill
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 7:45 PM
To: NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
Judith,
I think in a lot of ways, comparing blind and deaf communities or blind
people with other blind people is like comparing apples and oranges.
For people who are born deaf, sign language is their "native tongue" and
English is truly a second language. People like John who are not only born
deaf but born into a deaf family have the opportunity to grow up in their
natural community. Many blind people are squeezed out of their natural
communities and need to graft themselves into another community, whether it
is sighted or blind. What works for one doesn't necessarily work for
another. I find that many blind people who have had the fortune to be born
into families who are upper middle class have no appreciation for or
understanding of the fact that social status and economic security have
their benefits even when the relationships are not happy ones. I just think
we should be more tolerant of one another's differences. I think the
sighted world often pits us one against another with comments like "You
don't look blind" or "You're more adjusted to your blindness than other
blind people I've seen," and so on. Any thoughts?
Donna
--
For my bio & to hear clips from The Last Straw:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244374
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind
www.padnfb.org
Judith Bron wrote:
> I was talking to someone about being blind and accepted as an
> individual. I said to her, "This is me. Accepting me as me is like
> accepting you with brown hair." One can look at the blind population
> today and marvel that they got this far, but it wasn't always like
> that. Not so long ago, the blind were not accepted by society. With
> groups like the NFB and more avenues being opened to the blind, it is
> easy to look at us and say we made it. But we haven't, at least not
> yet. Perhaps it is easier to communicate with the blind because we
> all communicate via the spoken word. Since communication with the def
> community is often accomplished in different formats like signing many
> might think that overcoming this barrier is too difficult. I know
> several deaf people who read lips. Perhaps that makes it easier to
> communicate with the world at large. Judith ocess the ----- Original
> Message ----- From: "John Lee Clark" <johnlee at clarktouch.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 3:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>
>
>> Angela:
>>
>> The deaf, too, seek to be equals. But does the blind's seeking for
>> equality extend to being the SAME as sighted people as well as equal?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Angela fowler
>> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 2:08 PM
>> To: 'NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>
>> John, from what I have been reading there is a fundamental difference
>> between the blind community and the deaf community, and it has to do
>> with communication. There isn't the communication gap between blind
>> and sighted people that there is between deaf and hearing people.
>> Until that is resolved, deaf people need their own culture, to
>> satisfy that natural human need to belong and be excepted. Blind
>> people, or at least those of us in the federation, seek an equal
>> standing in mainstreamed society, to be excepted among our sighted
>> peers as equally vital and equally capable.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of John Lee Clark
>> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 11:16 AM
>> To: 'NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>
>> Dave:
>>
>> I am a big fan of segregation with gates. This means the separation
>> is not at all complete but at the same time it's not complete
>> integration.
>> I don't
>> know what it's like in the blind community or what values you all
>> have, but in the deaf community, those who went to public schools and
>> were "integrated" invariably, when they are adults, wish they hadn't
>> gone to public school but instead to deaf schools.
>>
>> You understand, those who went to public schools grew up feeling
>> inferior and rejected. Many of them would, in a misguided effort to
>> make friends, try to act hearing and would try all sorts of unhealthy
>> tactics to try and be accepted. Girls, for example, would discover
>> early that giving hearing boys sexual favors would get them momentary
>> attention and they can't figure out why they always get dumped
>> afterwards. There is a wealth of research that shows that deaf
>> children in public schools develop very serious psychological
>> problems and are ill-adjusted and "weak."
>>
>> Because of these problems, they do not do well in life. They're not
>> assertive, self-sufficient, etc. Many would start over from square
>> one after discovering on their own the deaf community. They'd
>> rebuild themselves, build up their self-esteem, etc. and it's only
>> then that they start having a real life and to succeed--both in the
>> deaf and hearing worlds.
>>
>> To get the best of both worlds, a balancing act between the two
>> doesn't work--it is too stressful and rife with failures. Nor does
>> trying to integrate completely in the hearing world work, because
>> deaf people just aren't hearing people and their trying to be is
>> actually very counterproductive. The more they try, the more
>> disappointing the results and the more the hearing reject them. What
>> works is for the deaf to have their own home base where they belong
>> completely and are at complete ease, and then they are also guests of
>> the hearing world. As guests, they don't try to be hearing or like
>> them, don't try to downplay their differences.
>> They just are themselves, and as guests, they do get a lot of respect
>> and the hearing are usually good and gracious hosts.
>>
>> The deaf colleges are wonderful not only in giving deaf people a
>> higher education, but in helping them start over if they are coming
>> in from public schools and hearing families. At those colleges, the
>> public school graduates are reborn. Those whwo went to deaf schools
>> simply continue their education in the same totally accessible way
>> they've enjoyed at deaf schools.
>>
>> Did having those deaf colleges result in a deaf ghetto? No. There
>> is no such thing. The result is that most of them are confident and
>> strong individuals, and it is extremely difficult for hearing people
>> to manipulate them. Those who never went to deaf schools or deaf
>> colleges are like, you know, Uncle Toms, like Oreos, black on the
>> outside, but white inside.
>> They're pushovers, for the most part.
>>
>> Don't get me wrong. The mainstream has its uses, and it's good to be
>> mobile in it, to work in it, and to milk it for resources such as
>> income and clothes and such. But because the deaf have a complete,
>> highly-developed culture, they don't need to "belong" elsewhere, and
>> being part of the mainstream just isn't desirable. And I am in line
>> with it, because, to be honest with you, American mainstream culture
>> leaves a great deal to be desired.
>>
>> Now, I don't know what blind people's values are. From your message,
>> it seems you are against any sort of segregation. Does that mean
>> your goal is inclusion in mainstream society?
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of David Andrews
>> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 10:45 PM
>> To: NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>
>> The notion of having a "blind college" seems to be a mixed bag at
>> best, to me. It smacks of segregation, the blind ghetto, and doesn't
>> seem like progress to me. We have to live in a sighted world, so
>> that sort of segregation is only putting off the inevitable.
>>
>> I understand, for whatever it is worth, that the deaf marry within
>> their own community more then any other disability group. I presume
>> it is a communication thing. While deaf persons "appear" to be more
>> "normal"
>> than
>> blind persons, the communication thing is a huge barrier.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 09:07 PM 12/27/2008, you wrote:
>>> Yeah, there are blind counselors.
>>>
>>> But my previous point was that, in the deaf community, the
>>> employment of deaf people is absolutely necessary in many, many
>>> fields. Take group homes for mentally ill deaf people. Having deaf
>>> residential staff and social workers is an absolute requirement.
>>> Only very, very few hearing people are capable. Or take marketing a
>>> new videophone model to deaf consumers. I am willing to bet that
>>> one hundred percent of the marketing staff at all the video relay
>>> services companies are deaf. Deaf people can tell right off if
>>> you're hearing, and that makies it
>> automatically harder to sell.
>>>
>>> But it seems to me in the blind fields, not many of them are
>>> controlled through and through by blind people themselves. Let me
>>> ask you: Why not?
>>>
>>> The deaf community also has four colleges predominatly populated by
>>> deaf students. As far as I know, there is no college that is all
>>> blind or even mostly blind. Why not? Wouldn't it be cool if there
>>> was
one?
>>>
>>> I don't know if this is true, but I recall my deafblind friend Rod
>> Macdonald
>>> joking that his local blind chapter should be called the Association
>>> of Vending Machine Operators. I gather that most of its members, if
>>> they have a job, work in the vending machine industry. Is this the
>>> number one employer of blind people? If not, what is?
>>>
>>> The number one source of employment for deafblind people is their
>>> own language, ASL. So they have a very safe hold on that!
>>>
>>> As for deafblind people, the unemployment is unbelievably high. But
>>> things are slowly changing as the telecommunications industry opens
>>> up to
>> them.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of David Andrews
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 7:51 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>>
>>> We have blind rehab counselors in Minnesota. We provide them with
>>> drivers, as needed, a reasonable accommodation. They are only in
>>> the field part of the time, so providing the drivers isn't a big deal.
>>>
>>> There have been blind counselors for a long time, and if New York
>>> has none, something is really wrong.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> At 06:40 PM 12/27/2008, you wrote:
>>> >Every counsellor I've had with the commission for the blind has
>>> >been sighted. They are required to drive to their clients.
>>> >Obviously blind people cannot fill these roles. However, in
>>> >teaching blind people to use adaptive equipment blind individuals
>>> >do this in facilities for the blind. I work with other handicaps,
>>> >mostly mental disabilities, but have never worked with a blind
>>> >person in rehabilitation. Yes, we have a blind governor in New
>>> >York State but he doesn't use adaptive equipment,, walk with a
>>> >white cane or read braille. I just keep forging ahead with my own
>>> >thing. Judith
>>> >----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lee Clark"
>>> <johnlee at clarktouch.com>
>>> >To: "'NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>> >Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 6:58 PM
>>> >Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>Judith:
>>> >>
>>> >>Deafness is an invisible to most. Deaf people can spot a deaf
>>> >>person a
>>> mile
>>> >>away with the way their eyes move, but most hearing people don't
>>> >>know anything until they'[re spoken to but don't respond, or if
>>> >>they see them signing.
>>> >>
>>> >>Blindness is more visible, certainly.
>>> >>
>>> >>But more accepted? Maybe as objects of sexual desire, but other
>>> >>than
>>> that,
>>> >>there's this difference in language. Blind people speak the same
>> language
>>> >>with the mainstream. For this reason, I think blind people have
>>> >>greater potential for employment. However, blind unemployment is
>>> >>far higher
>> than
>>> >>deaf unemployment.
>>> >>
>>> >>I think blind people are in higher positions, but deaf people have
>>> >>more jobs, just not as many in very high positions. There are
>>> >>several "industries" suited especially for deaf people. One is
>>> >>the ASL teaching industry. As the second most popular foreign
>>> >>language and the fastest growing, there are more than twenty
>>> >>thousand ASL teachers in the
>> country.
>>> >>This industry includes performers for ASL videos, writers of ASL
>>> textbooks,
>>> >>tutors, etc. Then there is the relay services industry. Text
>>> >>relay, CapTel, and most popular, video relay. This is a
>>> >>multi-billion dollar industry and employs many deaf people in
>>> >>administration, training, and marketing. A third source of
>>> >>employment is working for the states, for departments of human
>>> >>services and commissions and social work and also teaching in the
>>> >>state schools for the deaf. You understand, most
>> services
>>> >>provided to the deaf are provided by deaf people, too. Not many
>>> >>hearing people are capable or qualified to teach deaf children,
>>> >>give counseling, train, whatever.
>>> >>
>>> >>But outside of these areas and other smaller businesses geared
>>> >>toward
>> the
>>> >>deaf, they don't have much headway. We don't have a deaf judge or
>>> >>a
>> deaf
>>> >>governor, but you've got blind people in those positions.
>>> >>
>>> >>I may be wrong but low blind employment may have to do with the
>>> >>fact
>> blind
>>> >>people are not required for meeting the needs of or providing
>>> >>services
>> to
>>> >>the blind. Maybe you've got a good source of employment in
>>> >>vocational rehabilitation, but to me, it seems there are way too
>>> >>many sighted
>>> teachers,
>>> >>trainers, counselors, and technicians that work with blind people.
>>> >>And
>> is
>>> >>the fact that blindness is a great deal with SSDI a factor for the
>>> >>high unemployment? Deaf people can only earn up to eight hundred
>>> >>dollars per month if they want to keep their SSDI, whereas blind
>>> >>people can earn up
>> to
>>> >>twice that. So it is more in the interest for the deaf to seek
>>> >>full
>> time
>>> >>jobs and less in the interest for the blind to do the same.
>>> >>
>>> >>What do you think?
>>> >>
>>> >>John
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>-----Original Message-----
>>> >>From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> >>[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> >>On Behalf Of Judith Bron
>>> >>Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 5:16 PM
>>> >>To: NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> >>Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>> >>
>>> >>Could it be that deafness is more acceptable than blindness is
>>> >>that deaf people don't look different? In many cases the blind
>>> >>person's eyes look different from the sighted person's eyes.
>>> >>Judith
>>> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Hill"
>>> >><penatwork at epix.net>
>>> >>To: "NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>> >>Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 6:45 PM
>>> >>Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>John,
>>> >>>I understand your perspective and I am writing a novel with a
>>> >>>blind character, but having grown up trying to be sighted and
>>> >>>being taught to
>>> be
>>> >>
>>> >>>sighted, I have information from that world as well and have
>>> >>>written
>> some
>>> >>>fiction with non blind characters, simply to avoid having the
>>> >>>story be about blindness, when the real point is more complicated
>>> >>>as well as universal.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>I also can't help wondering, especially reading this particular
>>> >>>post, about the difference between the blind and deaf communities.
>>> >>>If the
>>> blind
>>> >>
>>> >>>community were as large, independent and self-integrated as the
>>> >>>deaf community and if blindness were as socially acceptable as
>>> >>>deafness -- i.e., Marly Maitlin is a superstar and the only blind
>>> >>>woman anyone
>> knows
>>> >>>is Helen Keller who died over fifty years ago, well, perhaps
>>> >>>there
>> would
>>> >>>be a market for blindness-related literature.
>>> >>>Donna
>>> >>>
>>> >>>--
>>> >>>For my bio & to hear clips from The Last Straw:
>>> >>>http://cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Apple I-Tunes
>>> >>>
>>>
>>>>> phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25
>>>>> 924
>>>>> 4374
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind
>>> >>>www.padnfb.org
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>John Lee Clark wrote:
>>> >>>>Shelley:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>Aside from my six-year run as publisher of my own publishing
>> operation,
>>> I
>>> >>>>have been involved in the publishing world for twelve years.
>>> >>>>I've
>>> worked
>>> >>>>with many, many writers, about half of them hearing sighted and
>>> >>>>the
>>> other
>>> >>>>deaf sighted with a few deafblind. While the quality of the
>>> >>>>writing always plays a role in whether or not something gets
>>> >>>>published, the deaf writers'
>>> >>>>writing from the deaf perspective is always, always an advantage.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>No, I don't mean one needs to make a conscious effort to write
>>> >>>>"about"
>>> >>>>being
>>> >>>>deaf, in the didactic sense. Just write about life--love,
>>> >>>>crime,
>>> family,
>>> >>>>whatever--but through deaf eyes, drawing from the deaf writer's
>>> >>>>own observations and sensations. Ha Jin, the well-known writer,
>>> >>>>made the point in his latest book that there are too many
>>> >>>>writers who write about
>> stuff
>>> >>>>they learned in a secondhand fashion, and readers can pick it
>>> >>>>up, even though they may not be conscious. The writer's
>>> >>>>describing his or her
>>> own
>>> >>>>genuine observations and experiences for the purpose of
>>> >>>>describing
>>> things
>>> >>
>>> >>>>is
>>> >>>>very important and lends the work with an aura of, a vibe
>>> >>>>exuding authenticity.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>So that's one benefit of writing exactly what you know. Another
>>> >>>>boon
>> to
>>> >>>>any
>>> >>>>writer is any type of outsiderhood. If you look back on the
>>> >>>>annals of literature, those who are "different" from the
>>> >>>>establishment
>> population
>>> >>>>but
>>> >>>>don't write from that different perspective don't get published
>>> >>>>often,
>>> or
>>> >>
>>> >>>>if
>>> >>>>they do, their work wears off quickly and they are forgotten.
>>> >>>>Take
>> the
>>> >>>>example of Thomas Caldwell, who was deaf, but wrote as if he
>>> wasn't.
>> Who
>>> >>>>knows him now? Or take Richard Wright, a wonderful and
>>> >>>>groundbreaking African American writer. All of his books are
>>> >>>>still in print, except one, and that was the only book he wrote
>>> >>>>about only white people.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>You understand, there are tens of thousands sighted people
>>> >>>>writing and trying to get published. So I cannot imagine any
>>> >>>>use in adding more
>> of
>>> >>>>the
>>> >>>>same types of material to that pot. There are only a limited
>>> >>>>number
>> of
>>> >>>>genres and plots, and they all have been done over and over again.
>> But
>>> >>>>if
>>> >>>>you're blind, and you're privileged to have different sensations
>>> >>>>and a different touch in your observations, that's quite a
>>> >>>>blessing and will help your work stand out amidst the awful
>>> >>>>racket of the same old, same old that editors endure reading
>>> >>>>through week after week.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>Now, my deaf writer friends, they all have found their most
>>> >>>>important
>>> and
>>> >>>>rewarding publishing credits through their deaf material. Many
>>> >>>>of
>> them,
>>> >>>>before they started workring with me, wrote only mainstream
>>> >>>>stuff, thinking they would have a better chance. Not so. Take
>>> >>>>Raymond
>>> >>>>Luczak: He has written over forty plays, but only twelve with
>>> >>>>deaf characters.
>> Thirteen
>>> >>
>>> >>>>of
>>> >>>>his plays have been produced. All twelve deaf plays and one not
>>> >>>>make
>> up
>>> >>>>the
>>> >>>>thirteen, leaving the rest of his "hearing" plays still
>>> >>>>collecting
>> dust.
>>> >>>>He
>>> >>>>has written four novels, only one with deaf characters. No
>>> surprise:
>>> The
>>> >>>>three mainstream works remain unpublished and the deaf one won a
>>> >>>>prestigious fellowship and also a national first-novel contest
>>> >>>>and will be coming
>>> out
>>> >>>>soon. Raymond's "hearing" stuff is good and worthy of
>>> >>>>publication,
>> but
>>> >>>>the
>>> >>>>problem is that there are so many equally good stuff these days,
>> because
>>> >>>>there are so many well-trained writers from all those MFA programs.
>>> >>>>Those
>>> >>>>who get published are the ones with unique voices, original
>>> >>>>twists, or those who bring to the reader authentic tastes of
>>> >>>>different worlds.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>I once got a story from a good deaf writer. It was about the
>>> >>>>Titanic.
>> A
>>> >>>>couple gets separated at the end, the woman rowed away while the
>>> >>>>man sinks with the ship. It was wonderfully researched and
>>> >>>>detailed. The
>> writing
>>> >>>>was
>>> >>>>smooth and luminous. In all the fundamental areas, it was a
>>> >>>>superb story.
>>> >>>>But it was never picked up, and the deaf writer could not
>>> >>>>understand
>> why
>>> >>>>not, since it was one of her very best efforts. The reason, of
>> course,
>>> >>>>is
>>> >>>>that the Titanic as the backdrop for a love story has been done
>>> >>>>to
>>> death.
>>> >>>>It was already worn threadbare even before that movie with Leo
>>> >>>>and
>> Kate.
>>> >>>>But what if the couple was deaf? They wake up because of the
>>> >>>>great commotion outside their room sending vibrations to them.
>>> >>>>They ask
>> each
>>> >>>>other what's going on. Outside their room, they see people
>>> running.
>>> >>>>They
>>> >>>>try to get someone to write to them on a notepad, but they're
>>> >>>>all panicked.
>>> >>>>So they have to investigate, and gradually, from all the visual
>>> >>>>information, they begin to understand. A sailor tries to put
>>> >>>>the deaf woman in
>> line
>>> >>>>for
>>> >>>>getting on a lifeboat, but she doesn't want to be separated from
>>> >>>>her husband. All sorts of misunderstandings, issues,
>>> >>>>correctives,
>> etc.
>>> >>>>occur.
>>> >>>>And at the end, a twist on the classic separation thing: The
>>> >>>>deaf
>> woman
>>> >>>>decides to sink with her husband, so strong is their bond with
>>> >>>>each
>>> other
>>> >>
>>> >>>>as
>>> >>>>they come from a small community and the deaf woman cannot
>>> >>>>imagine venturing out on her own amidst all those hearing strangers.
>>> >>>>Now, isn't that a much better story? A blind couple on the
>>> >>>>Titanic
>>> would
>>> >>>>likewise be much better than the mainstream version and would
>> definitely
>>> >>>>stand out!
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>Incidentally, some of the hearing writers I've worked with but
>>> >>>>who
>> have
>>> >>>>connectins to the Deaf world, they also have found greater
>>> >>>>success in publishing their work relating to the Deaf world as
>>> >>>>opposed to their
>>> more
>>> >>>>mainstream fare. Take Morgan Grayce Willow, an ASL interpreter.
>>> >>>>Her biggest book credit is her work on interpreting. Her most
>>> >>>>prestigious magazine credit is for her essay "Double Language,"
>>> >>>>about her
>>> experiences
>>> >>
>>> >>>>as
>>> >>>>an interpreter. She has published other stuff, but with much
>>> >>>>more difficulty and less compensation. Or take Pia Taavila, a
>>> >>>>wonderful
>> poet
>>> >>>>and
>>> >>>>professor of English, who is the daughter of deaf parents, or a
>>> >>>>CODA
>> as
>>> >>>>we
>>> >>>>call people like her--Children of Deaf Adults. She has written
>>> >>>>both mainstream stuff and stuff having to do with her upbringing
>>> >>>>in a Deaf home and her continued link with the Deaf community.
>>> >>>>You guessed it again:
>>> >>>>Her
>>> >>>>Deaf-related poems are more readily published and get higher
>>> praise.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>It is not that they can't get published without the deaf material.
>> They
>>> >>>>can
>>> >>>>and have. But it is against greater, much greater odds that
>>> they do.
>>> >>>>Here
>>> >>>>and there, they are able to be heard, able to be distinguished
>>> >>>>from
>> the
>>> >>>>rest
>>> >>>>clamoring for the same editor's attention. And it's not that
>>> >>>>writing from a different perspective will automatically get you
>>> >>>>published. The
>> writing
>>> >>>>still has to be good. But it is a huge advantage in arresting
>>> >>>>the editor's attention, curiosity, and interest.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>I don't know how the deaf writers could possibly try to write
>> mainstream
>>> >>>>stuff, or how you could avoid writing as a blind writer, but I
>>> >>>>never could, never wanted to. It feels fake and contrived to me.
>>> >>>>It would take
>> too
>>> >>>>much
>>> >>>>effort to pretend, to write about auditory things I never heard,
>>> >>>>to
>>> write
>>> >>>>visual descriptions of what I have never seen. I am of the
>>> >>>>opinion
>> that
>>> >>>>"'catering" to the mainstream audience is self-defeating,
>>> >>>>because
>> there
>>> >>>>are
>>> >>>>many writers that produce mainstream stuff and it's not like
>>> >>>>they're "catering" but they're genuine because they ARE
>>> >>>>mainstream. I have always written straight from who and what I
>>> >>>>am. And I am not complaining
>> about
>>> >>>>my
>>> >>>>inability to write mainstream stuff because I've been published
>>> >>>>in
>>> POETRY
>>> >>>>magazine twice, while there are thousands of poets who can only
>>> >>>>dream about ever getting there; I've been published in
>>> >>>>McSWEENEY'S, America's most hip literary journal; I've won all
>>> >>>>those awards; my work has been
>> broadcast
>>> >>>>on
>>> >>>>radio, including on the "Poem of the Day" program on Martha
>>> >>>>Stewart;
>> I'm
>>> >>>>being interviewed by someone from The New Yorker right now; I've
>>> >>>>been
>> a
>>> >>>>featured poet at an international cultural arts festival, flown
>>> there
>>> >>>>first-class and with all expenses paid . . . so I guess I must be
>>> doing
>>> >>>>something right.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>No, that was not to brag at all. That was purely to make my
>>> >>>>point, to make my case for writing from a different angle, and
>>> >>>>to encourage you and others to try doing that. Hey, it can't
>>> >>>>hurt to try, can it?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>John
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>No virus found in this outgoing message.
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>>> >>>>- Release Date: 12/26/2008
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>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>_______________________________________________
>>> >>>>Writers Division web site:
>>> >>>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>> >>>><http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>> >>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>> ne
>>> >>t
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
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>>> >>>
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>>> >>>
>>> >>>
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>>> >>>
>>> >>>_______________________________________________
>>> >>>Writers Division web site:
>>> >>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>stylist mailing list
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>>>> line
>>> .n
>>> >>et
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>> >>Writers Division web site:
>>> >>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>> >>
>>> >>stylist mailing list
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>>>> rkto
>>> uc
>>> >>h.com
>>> >>
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>>> >>
>>> >>
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>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>> >>Writers Division web site:
>>> >>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>> >>
>>> >>stylist mailing list
>>> >>stylist at nfbnet.org
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>>>
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>>>> line
>>> .net
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >_______________________________________________
>>> >Writers Division web site:
>>> >http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>> >
>>> >stylist mailing list
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>>> >for
>>> stylist:
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>>> i.co
>>> m
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
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>>> >12/27/2008 8:49 PM
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site:
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>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>
>>> stylist mailing list
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>> c
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>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site:
>>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>
>>> stylist mailing list
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>>>
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
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>> 12:00 AM
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
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>>
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>>
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>> Checked by AVG.
>> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1865 - Release Date:
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>>
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>> Checked by AVG.
>> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1865 - Release Date:
>> 12/28/2008
>> 12:00 AM
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
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>
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E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) Database version:
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_______________________________________________
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h.com
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Checked by AVG.
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12:00 AM
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1865 - Release Date: 12/28/2008
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_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
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stylist mailing list
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_______________________________________________
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Checked by AVG.
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10:48 AM
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