[stylist] Using titles to refer to people

slery slerythema at insightbb.com
Sat Apr 4 07:05:57 UTC 2009 

John,

Perhaps is this is something that we (those who have expressed opinions on
this list) hear all the time. But your observations of "print" do not
represent what is "spoken."

I am not trying to continue the thread, merely trying to see both sides to
the issue that was raised. I'll refrain from making any more comments
directly to the list since this is starting to stray from a writing
perspective into a more personal preference.

Cindy

> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org 
> [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John Lee Clark
> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 2:11 PM
> To: 'NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Using titles to refer to people
> 
> 
> Barbara:
> 
> I am not questioning whether they deserve respect.  They do.  
> Let me be clear that I am on the same boat with you all in 
> our respect and reverence for those fine men.  Okay?  We all 
> respect them and we all agree they deserve respect.
> 
> Now, it's just that I found the liberal use of the title to 
> cheapen their prestige.  Iit is okay if you are impressed by 
> the title and it's great if you feel it in fact increases 
> their prestige.  But I don't feel that way.  
> 
> The real reason I am bringing this up is that I do NOT want 
> people outside of the blind community to see all of those 
> Dr.s all over the place and snicker to themselves, thinking, 
> Oh, they really do rub that title in, eh? Well, I understand, 
> because they are poor blind people and they need anything to 
> make them feel better. Ha ha.  They're amateurs, those NFB 
> guys, trying to dress up to be big shots with their Dr. 
> sparkiling next to their names!
> 
> If the title was used sparingly, okay.  But it is not.  It is 
> all over the place, as it used to be in the old NAACP papers, 
> the old feminist movement, the old Little Paper Family of the 
> Deaf community, all from long ago.  No other community uses 
> it anymore.  
> 
> Disagree with this perspective all you want.  But don't 
> question my high respect and esteem for those men.  I am with 
> you in wanting them look as good as possible; I'm with you 
> for making sure NFB is credible and professional and 
> respected.  I'm with you.  I just have a different take on 
> how it may or may not work.
> 
> John
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org 
> [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barbara Hammel
> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 8:12 AM
> To: NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Using titles to refer to people
> 
> They are human just like the rest of us and make mistakes.  
> Owing to the 
> fact that they are and have been the presidents of the NFB 
> should be enough 
> to deserve our respect.  Do you hear everyone every time refer to our 
> country's presidents as "President ...."?
> Barbara
> 
> If wisdom's ways you wisely seek, five things observe with 
> care:  of whom 
> you speak, to whom you speak, and how and when and where.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "John Lee Clark" <johnlee at clarktouch.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:04 AM
> To: "'NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Using titles to refer to people
> 
> > Not you, too, Justin?
> >
> > Okay, I'll try not to be too shocked here.  But really.  
> But I mean.  
> > I am so sad, and so sorry, but I am really incredulous here.
> >
> > Is it a low self-esteem thing?  Iis there such desperate need for 
> > anything to burnish your image?  Is there no confidence in 
> the real, 
> > actual power of your accomplishments in and of themselves?  
> Iis there 
> > no appreciation for the virtue of understatement, or the oblique 
> > reference?
> >
> > It has been my great pleasure and privilege to know over 
> fifty people 
> > with Ph.Ds.  None, and I repeat, none of them use Dr. next to their 
> > names and only use Ph.D sparingly.  Take Harlan Lane, who 
> is the James 
> > Elliott Distinguished Professor of History at Northeastern 
> University, 
> > who earned his Ph.D from Sorbonne, no less, and wrote bestselling 
> > books published by Knopf--he absolutely never uses Dr.  Or 
> take Carol 
> > Padden, the chair of the Communications Department at the 
> University 
> > of California at San Diego, author of two books, with her 
> husband, Tom 
> > Humphries, professor of linguistics and fellow at the Salk 
> Institute, 
> > published by Harvard Univeristy Press--no Dr. for either of 
> them.  Or 
> > take Brenda Jo Brueggemann,
> > chair of the Deaf Studies department at Ohio State 
> University--she has two
> > Ph.Ds but never goes by Dr.  Or take Bob Harris, the CEO of the Deaf
> > community's biggest Deaf-related store, Harris 
> Communications, who has a
> > Ph.D in psychology--no Dr.  Or take Benjamin J. Soukup, the 
> CEO of CSD,
> > former president of NAD, current chairman of the board of 
> trustees of
> > Gallaudet, who doesn't have ANY degrees that he earned from 
> college, not
> > even a BA degree, but he has a long list of honorary 
> doctorates--nice
> > honors, he says, but he never calls himself Dr.  Or take 
> Jane Frenandes,
> > Ph.D in literature, former provost at Gallaudet, now provost at the
> > University of North Carolina at Asheville--no Dr.  Or take 
> the well-known
> > Deaf comedian, Bob Daniels, Ph.D in comparative literature from
> > Princeton--no Dr.  Or take my very close friend, Sean 
> Virnig, Ph.D in
> > educational administration, now head of the school for the 
> Deaf here--Ph.D
> > on his business card for work, but that's it.
> >
> > Or take those who are hearing, not Deaf like the above--Mary Kirk, 
> > Ph.D in education, professor at Metro State 
> University--never Dr.  Or 
> > take Dona Mathews, Ph.D in psychology, CEO of a counseling firm 
> > here--no Dr.  Or take Bill Williams, Ph.D in Renaissance Studies, 
> > gallery owner--no Dr.  Or take Pia Taavila, Ph.D in 
> English, poet--no 
> > Dr.  Or take Mike Dykstra, Ph.D in marine biology, government 
> > biologist and teaches at UNC Chapel Hill--never Dr.  Or take Oliver 
> > Sacks, the bestselling author of many books, Ph.D in 
> neurology, well, 
> > sometimes he's called Dr. because he is so distinguished and so, so 
> > famous, but it is very rarely used in print and absolutely never
> > in his own books.  Or take Teresa B. Smith, Ph.D in social 
> > sciences--you'll
> > never catch her using the title Dr.
> >
> > Only M.D.s are regularly called Dr. in print.  The other kinds of 
> > doctors, no.  Sometimes Ph.D, but NOT Dr.
> >
> > Dr. but not a M.D. is a propped-up fake.
> >
> > Why prop up Jernigan or Mauer while they are already great 
> as is?  The 
> > propping up only makes it look like they need propping up.
> >
> > John
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org 
> [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> > On Behalf Of Justin Williams
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 9:07 PM
> > To: 'NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List'
> > Subject: Re: [stylist] Using titles to refer to people
> >
> > I think that if you have earned that allusive and 
> prestidgous title, 
> > then you have the right to use it whenever you so desire.  
> As a matter 
> > of fact, you should.  Hell, if I had it, I would be putting Dr. 
> > Williams on everything.  Boy Dr. Williams has a nice ring to it.  
> > Maybe I just go and get me one of them there PHds.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org 
> [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> > On Behalf Of Angela fowler
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 9:46 PM
> > To: 'NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List'
> > Subject: [stylist] Using titles to refer to people
> >
> > Most people who have PHDs are referred to as Doctor. I think you're
> > reading
> > way too much into it.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org 
> [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> > On Behalf Of John Lee Clark
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 1:02 PM
> > To: 'NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List'
> > Subject: Re: [stylist] Heroes of the blind community
> >
> > Hey, all:
> >
> > I notice NFB's tendency to take pains to refer to people with 
> > doctorates
> > as
> > Dr.  Am I to read into this a kind of inferiority complex 
> and if you have 
> > a
> > doctorate you make sure it is known and touted?
> >
> > If so, Ii recommend scrapping this altogether.  You may think it 
> > builds credibility, but the fact you mention Dr. at all 
> suggests it is 
> > SPECIAL for a blind person.  But it shouldn't be considered 
> special, 
> > but only a matter of course--of course you've got a whole colony of 
> > blind doctors!  Even if you don't have that many, it's good to be 
> > nonchalant about it.
> >
> > But I can sympathize.  The Deaf community used to make a 
> big deal of 
> > the title Dr. but that was back in the 1930s.  Nowadays, Deaf Ph.Ds 
> > are common as dirt.
> >
> > But I make this suggestion only from the perspective of language 
> > manipulation.  Understatements are better than overstatements.
> >
> > John
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org 
> [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> > On Behalf Of LoriStay at aol.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 8:16 AM
> > To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> > Subject: Re: [stylist] Heroes of the blind community
> >
> > Start with the leaders:   Louis Braille, Dr. Jacobus 
> tenBroek, Dr. Kenneth
> > Jernigan, and many other leaders from NFB.
> > Lori
> > In a message dated 3/31/09 11:59:04 PM, jbron at optonline.net writes:
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >> Who are the biggest legendary figures or heroes of the blind
> >> >> community?
> >> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > **************
> > Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for 
> $10 or less.
> > (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
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