[stylist] reading lips

Wed Nov 18 18:50:15 UTC 2009

Sorry Judith but somehow I doupt your friend is completely deaf if she
maanages sucessfully with a system that would only provide her with 20
percent of a conversation. That is just not enough to go by and be
successful with it. My latest communicator guide is also deaf and uses
speach methods she is really good at guessing, but sometimes she gets
a message completely wrong and I wish she would use a differant method
with me. Unfortuately as well as being deaf she is also a little
computer shy so their is sometimes a break down in communication. She
isn't profoundly deaf but it still happens because the method she uses
involves so much guessing.

People with profound hearing loss don't hear much, but some of them
have hearing loss that falls within what's known as the speech banana.
To master speech at a profound level takes a lot of speech reading
lessons. Even then you have to do a major lot of guess work.

My friend who has a 120 db loss (which is almost total) 'managed' with
lipreading just with very powerful hearing aids and very very
extensive speech therapy as a child.  She felt very isolated at
school. She is now a teacher of the deaf at a singning deaf school.
She prefers being with other signing deaf rather then being with
hearing people. She wishes she had gone to a deaf school instead of to
mainstream.

She may have been able to apear successful as a speaking deaf person
but she feels she didn't get full access using speech. She wants full
access for all deaf children so nobody has to go through what she did.

Helene.

On 18/11/2009, Judith Bron <jbron at optonline.net> wrote:
> That's a fun age.  They're just getting the idea that they are real people
> and trying to act like they know everything but still have enough childhood
> left in them that they act like children most of the time.  It's a very cute
> age.  Enjoy them!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barbara Hammel" <poetlori8 at msn.com>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] reading lips
>
>
>> Seven and a half.
>> Barbara
>> Snow is God's way of reminding us that beauty can be found even in the
>> coldest hearts.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "helene ryles" <dreamavdb at googlemail.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 3:52 PM
>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] reading lips
>>
>>> Barbara: That sounds good. I know a few deafblind parents who have all
>>> their kids signing to them in tactile sign language, Including  a
>>> deafblind mother of a deafblind son. I think he has a head start on
>>> most deafblind kids since she will have been signing right from the
>>> start. He seems to be doing really well too.
>>> How old are your twins?
>>>
>>> Helene
>>>
>>> On 17/11/2009, Barbara Hammel <poetlori8 at msn.com> wrote:
>>>> I only have the twins.
>>>> And the funny thing is that the one who uses them assumes that no one
>>>> can
>>>> see.  Because he always has to take my hands and show me, he takes
>>>> everyone's hands.
>>>> Barbara
>>>>
>>>> Snow is God's way of reminding us that beauty can be found even in the
>>>> coldest hearts.
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: "helene ryles" <dreamavdb at googlemail.com>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 2:58 PM
>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] reading lips
>>>>
>>>>> Barbara: That sounds really good. Does that include your twins? Do
>>>>> they use tactile baby signs. I've read an article about tactile baby
>>>>> signs for blind babies. I read an interesting article about it once
>>>>> which I linked but unfortunately it's a dud link now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Helene
>>>>>
>>>>> On 17/11/2009, helene ryles <dreamavdb at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Judith: Profoundly deaf doesn't always mean totally deaf. Some
>>>>>> profoundly deaf can hear environmental noises with powerful hearing
>>>>>> aids. I could if I chose as I do have some hearing in my right ear,
>>>>>> but I also have recruitment so I choose to use a vibrating device to
>>>>>> alert me to noise instead.
>>>>>> My friend who is profoundly deaf who does lipread does say that a lot
>>>>>> of her childhood was taken over with speach therapy and she was denied
>>>>>> signing. She learnt to sign as an adult and she feels she has
>>>>>> benifited a lot from learning to sign.
>>>>>> She had a brother who is also profoundly deaf. They tried to get him
>>>>>> to speak and lip read for 5 years before giving it up as a lost cause
>>>>>> and sending him to deaf school.
>>>>>> She teaches at a deaf school so she also gets a lot of kids who come
>>>>>> to her having failed lipreading who weren't taught sign language and
>>>>>> can't write either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have nothing against deaf learning to lipread. I'm for a full tool
>>>>>> box apraoch. Learn everything that's going and drop whatever isn't so
>>>>>> useful later on. You would need to understand deaf history of how so
>>>>>> many deaf were denied signing in an effort to force them to speak.
>>>>>> That includes corprol punishement too when oralism was at it's hight,
>>>>>> and they really did try to force deafblind to understand speech using
>>>>>> the tandoma method. As a result of that it's gone completely wheras I
>>>>>> think it may have been useful for me when I stopped being able to
>>>>>> lipread visually, instead of giving me mega powerful hearing aids
>>>>>> which are responsible for my aversion to noise as an adult.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Helene
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 17/11/2009, Judith Bron <jbron at optonline.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> A friend of my friend's daughter is profoundly deaf.  She was born
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> way.
>>>>>>> She is best friends with my friend's daughter who never had this
>>>>>>> disability.
>>>>>>> One day I was in the library (don't ask me why) and I heard, "Mrs.
>>>>>>> Bron."
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> looked around and this girl saw me looking and said, "It's Channah.
>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>> over here."  I heard where she was and went over to her. I was able
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>> hello, how are you etc and she understood me.  She said, "I'm here
>>>>>>> for a
>>>>>>> class project."  This girl, now married with her own family, had been
>>>>>>> mainstreamed as a small child and did very well in school.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "helene ryles" <dreamavdb at googlemail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 2:52 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] reading lips
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lori,
>>>>>>> You are right that for a completely deaf person to rely exclusively
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> lipreading is not realistic. Most people who lipreading do have
>>>>>>> hearing although some have very little of it. I know a woman with a
>>>>>>> profound loss who lipreads but she says without her hearing aids she
>>>>>>> can't lipread so well. That's because only about 20 per cent of what
>>>>>>> is said can be seen on the lips. HOH people can combine their limited
>>>>>>> hearing with lipreading skills so they can be quite good at it but
>>>>>>> most lipreaders do have some useful hearing to go by.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for teaching hearing children signing, there is something called
>>>>>>> baby signs. Some parents of hearing babies have found that their
>>>>>>> babies can learn to communicate through sign before they learn
>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>> speach. I'm all for it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is another way for a deaf and a hearing child to communicate
>>>>>>> though and that is via pen and paper.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Helene
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 17/11/2009, LoriStay at aol.com <LoriStay at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> An option is the way to go.   I took two sign courses at Helen
>>>>>>>> Keller
>>>>>>>> (National Center for the Deaf/blind), but because I have no place to
>>>>>>>> practice,
>>>>>>>> had to let it go.
>>>>>>>> Lori
>>>>>>>> In a message dated 11/16/09 6:12:26 PM, jbron at optonline.net writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I feel badly that not all deaf people can read lips. However,
>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> make sign language a mandatory course for all American students? I
>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>> think so. You can have it available as an option, but it shouldn't
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> mandatory.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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