[stylist] stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9

Tue Aug 10 16:43:15 UTC 2010

Jewel,

Most digital cameras have the facial recognization feature.  I have an
Easy Share by Kodak and it does the facial or object identification.

I have a tip for taking pictures.  I stand as close to what ever I am
trying to take a picture of possible then back up.  It usually helps so
that I actually take a shot of what I want.  Digital cameras are a
little different because they do not use a view finder, but have a
screen.  I suggest taking time to get use to how the camera feels when
snapping a picture.

Anyway, I do not believe any cameras will just recognize a face just
because the camera is pointing in a direction.  There still has to be a
focus, but this feature helps to stabilize the image.

Good luck finding a camera.  There are so many!

Bridgit

-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 12:00 PM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Blindness and photography (Jewel S.)
   2. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
   3. Re: Writers Division member featured by Stanford	University,
      Center... (KajunCutie926 at aol.com)
   4. Re: Blindness and photography (Robert Leslie Newman)
   5. Re: Blindness and photography (Elizabeth Sammons)
   6. Re: Blindness and photography (Joe Orozco)
   7. Re: Blindness and photography (Jewel S.)
   8. Re: Blindness and photography (Robert Leslie Newman)
   9. Blindness, Photography, and Division Web Site (Peter Donahue)
  10. Re: Blindness and photography (BDM)
  11. Re: Blindness and photography (loristay)
  12. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 12:59:51 -0400
From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID:
	<AANLkTikMxTLAm0THw3xcuz385+6YB2Mr84ZccfORZ0ek at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Does anyone know the Blind Pohotographer Blog? It can be viewed at:
http://blog.blindphotographers.org/

I check this blog from time to time, because it is an interesting one.

Also, my boyfriend and I want to go over to a nearby photographer's
shop soon, to do a full review for my blog (Treasure Chest for the
Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com) about a camera that has
a "smile detector." The camera has a special feature that when a
person smiles, it takes the picture while focused ont that person. It
can be turned off, too, if you want to take a picture of someone who
isn't smiling (like a baby who is crying but is hilarious in his
temper). There is a facial identification focus as well that will let
you know when you are centered on a face. I have not tried thie camera
out, and don't remember its model name, but am hoping to get over
there to do a review on it soon. Anyone know about these features?
It's a digital camera, by the way.

My two cents on the topic,
Jewel

On 8/8/10, BDM <lists at braddunsemusic.com> wrote:
> There is nothing like following your dream, no matter what anyone
> else thinks. I am also a performing songwriter and part of PAD, I
> think Robert was asking earlier. I do a loose blog on my site
>
> http://www.braddunsemusic.com/blog.html
>
> basically a live spew of mostly unedited thoughts which recently I've
> done a couple thoughts on following dreams. One of which is in a
> monthly story behind the song which I confess why the gal in the song
> has two different colored shoes on, while some might assume its due
> to my vision loss, it was not as you'd read :). Some blind folks are
> so over sensitive to being pegged as stereotypes they miss what they
> are meant to do, or at least infringe on what others are meant to do.
> Foul ball.  Just do what is in your heart and go for your dream no
> matter what anyone else thinks.  Those that  criticize with such
> claims, unknowingly expose their own insecurities, which may or may
> not have to do with their blindness. There are four bases and one
> chance  to stand over the plate.
>
> Brad
>
> At 10:20 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
>>Peter,
>>Bless you. This is right on and well-stated. I too worked as a
>>streetsinger. I sang in Philadelphia's Suburban Station and at
>>Penn's Landing year-round for over 13 years. There were some people
>>who objected to that. Although there is a rich history of excellent
>>blind street musicians, apparently some blind people feel that it is
>>only OK to be a troubadour if you're sighted. Incidentally, my work
>>led to many non street jobs. In schools I actually got to talk about
>>blindness issues and help bridge the gap of misunderstanding and
>>fear in the sighted world. I also produced 3 albums, wrote a book
>>and was chosen as the subject of an independent film.
>>
>>I hope you are still pursuing your dream. Nobody blind or sighted
>>should be stepping on other people's dreams. When it happens within
>>the blindness community, it always reminds me how true it is that we
>>are just like everyone else -- in this case, that's a shame.
>>Donna
>>
>>Read Donna's articles on
>>Suite 101:
>>www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
>>American Chronicle:
>>www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>>
>>Connect with Donna on
>>Twitter:
>>www.twitter.com/dewhill
>>LinkedIn:
>>www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
>>FaceBook:
>>www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>>
>>Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
>>cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>>Apple I-Tunes
>>phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244
374
>>
>>Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
>>Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
>>Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
>>www.padnfb.org
>>
>>
>>On 8/7/2010 11:02 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
>>>Hello Elizabeth and everyone,
>>>
>>>      This reminds me of the reaction I got from some blind
>>> individuals I knew
>>>in Massachusetts when discussing the possibility of blind persons
becoming
>>>guide dog instructors. These same people often criticized me for
working
>>> as
>>>a street musician rather than "being more gainfully employed." It was
>>> their
>>>attitude, their unwillingness to explore possibilities, and being
>>>unsupportive of my dreams and life goals that put myself and a few
others
>>> on
>>>the streets to begin with.
>>>
>>>      Not all of us are cut out to be writers or photographers but
for God
>>>sakes if a blind person chooses to become a guide dog trainer, a
>>>photographer, a writer, or whatever let's support them and quit
trying to
>>>steal their dreams! I sent a message similar to this one to the NABS
List
>>>earlier this past week concerning a discussion of blind drivers.
We're
>>>federationists and our imaginative spirit and can-do attitude needs
to
>>> shine
>>>through at all times.
>>>
>>>Peter Donahue
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Elizabeth Sammons"<antigone at columbus.rr.com>
>>>To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:12 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi, Robert and all others.
>>>
>>>Yes, I'm in complete agreement that this is an interesting
discussion, and
>>>of course, knowing us as writers and thinkers, the discussion could
and
>>>should be 100% civil. (Smile.) I simply find it a mockery, a caper
that
>>>either wishes to say "Look at me, I can do this, too," to attract
>>> attention,
>>>or else totally missing the idea of good photography. I know you did
not
>>>mean it this way, Robert, and while I agree that listening to a
voice, a
>>>bird song, etc., can help one to find the subject, the difference
between
>>>capturing that subject on a picture and making it artistic is the
>>> difference
>>>between saying "Look, I know the alphabet and can write a punctuated
>>>sentence!" and "Look what a fine sentence I just wrote, evoking the
mind
>>> and
>>>spirit of my subject." I don't feel that people who are blind should
put
>>>themselves out to pursue something for the sake of pursuit rather
than to
>>> do
>>>a good job any more than as I quoted "Beethoven's Nightmare" the deaf
>>>group, they could call themselves quote real musicians end quote. For
the
>>>record, I think they take themselves with a lot of irony, which makes
the
>>>band at least marginally acceptable in my view.
>>>
>>>Admittedly, I stand on the more radical edge of this field of
thought, but
>>>I'm putting  it out boldly for the sake of discussion. If anybody
writes
>>>something that makes me change my mind, I'll smile and let you know,
>>> though
>>>please note, I am not  particularly trying to say here please change
my
>>>opinion on this matter.
>>>
>>>
>>>Sincerely,
>>>Elizabeth
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Writers Division web site:
>>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.o
rg/>
>>>
>>>stylist mailing list
>>>stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40
sbcglobal.net
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Writers Division web site:
>>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.o
rg/>
>>>
>>>stylist mailing list
>>>stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for stylist:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
epix.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>>_______________________________________________
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>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>>stylist mailing list
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>
>
> Brad Dunse
>
> Music is the only language in which you cannot say a mean or sarcastic
thing
>
> E Mail: brad at braddunsemusic.com
>
> Website: http://www.braddunsemusic.com
>
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1464323555
>
> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/braddunse
>
> MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/braddunse
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
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>

-- 
~Jewel
Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 13:09:44 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <4C5EE4D8.3070101 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Shelley,
When I was taking pictures, the light/shadow experience was a huge deal 
for my nature shots especially. Still, I don't think sight is necessary 
in all cases. Glad to hear you include photos. We're not all cut out to 
take them, but it's important to realize the profound impact they can 
have on sighted people. We need every tool we can find.
Donna

Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885

Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.

Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4

Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org

On 8/7/2010 1:13 AM, Shelley J. Alongi wrote:
> This is very very cool. A lot of times good photographs have to do 
> with the light and its affects on surroundings and if a blind person 
> can get a sense of how light reacts to surroundings and pick up clues 
> I am sure it can be done. I have done many presentations not 
> necerssarily for writings in which photography was a part of the 
> picture. If you read fashion or home decorating magazines at all 
> you'll notice a great emphasis on different kinds of light. It's all 
> very logical and interesting. This works into photographs. I've always

> been one to leave the photographing to others as I have my hands very 
> full at any given moment but as a blind person I've never left it out 
> of my work. It is part of what makes experiences for all kinds of 
> people enjoyable. Go for it!
> Shelley J. Alongi
> Independent Consultant with The Pampered Chef
> Consultant#628861
> Home Office: (714)869-3207
> Why You Should Start Your Own business with the Pampered Chef: 
> 630-261-3537
> **
> NFBWD "Slate and Style" editor
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> **railroading, planes, romance,
> click on 
>
http://www.storymania.com/cgibin/sm2/smshowauthorbox.cgi?page=&author=Al
ongiSJ&alpha=A 
>
> updated July 14, 2010
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Leslie Newman" 
> <newmanrl at cox.net>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 10:24 AM
> Subject: [stylist] Blindness and photography
>
>
>> Hey STYLIST members, here is an interesting site to check out. It's
not
>> about writing, but it deals with an skill that is often associated
with
>> writing (like in the news paper or books, etc.)
>>
>> Blind With Camera School of Photography is a virtual school with
>> step-by-step tutorials for the visually impaired to get started with
>> photography and guidance to sighted photographers for starting 
>> photographic
>> workshops with local visually impaired people.
>>
>>
>>
<http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1103601039185&s=3910&e=001PsgFa0OJYOsU6mli
68as 
>>
>>
FX7oGcOcZRAqA-mEOYBq2vk334oeaLxtCx-GpDgMf2vU3FbXtJyE1cQ4lsJK8cvdmXLbW68n
uq80 
>>
>> INGrImyzskNBaClBHACQhKfKyTWq2GPy>
http://www.blindwithcameraschool.org
>>
>> Robert Leslie Newman
>> President NFB Writers' division
>> Writers' Division Website-
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org 
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>> Personal Website-
>> http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org 
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for

>> stylist:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/qobells%40roadr
unner.com 
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org 
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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x.net 
>
>
>
>
>
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E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 13:26:48 EDT
From: KajunCutie926 at aol.com
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [stylist] Writers Division member featured by Stanford
	University, Center...
Message-ID: <b01ca.77a1cfe5.399042d8 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Indeed.. huge congrats Donna!!

In a message dated 8/8/2010 11:20:07 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
lists at braddunsemusic.com writes:

Indeed  congrats Donna!

Brad

At 11:07 AM 8/8/2010, you  wrote:
>Donna
>
>this is great news! You are indeed  deserving of being honored for the
>widespread coverage that you do with  your writings. We within the
Writers'
>Division, as being authors who  happen to be blind, and no matter if it
is
>blindness issues we  concentrate on, or not, we all are working to
change
>what it means to  be blind, and though recognition for our work is
seldom
>given, it is a  great feel when it happens.
>
>So keep up the good  work!
>
>(All this goes for our sighted members, too; you are one  of us.)
>
>
>Robert Leslie Newman
>President NFB  Writers' division
>Writers' Division  Website-
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>Personal  Website-
>http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
>
>-----Original  Message-----
>From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org  [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
>Behalf Of Donna  Hill
>Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 8:34 AM
>To: Writer's Division  Mailing List
>Subject: [stylist] Writers Division member featured by  Stanford 
University,
>Center for Social Innovation
>
>Hi  Friends, <http://www.stanford.edu/>
>I have received a great honor  which has led to publicity for the NFB
and 
for
>blindness issues. I was  chosen as the 2nd "Third Sector Grit"
>profile for Stanford University.  "Donna Hill: A Profile in Third
Sector
>Grit" (July 23, 2010), by John  Brothers has just been published by 
Stanford
>University,  <http://www.stanford.edu/>  Graduate School of  Business,
><http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/>  Center for Social  Innovation
>at:  <http://csi.gsb.stanford.edu>
>
>http://www.ssireview.org/opinion/entry/donna_hill_a_profile_in_third_se
ctor
_
>grit/
>
>The  project profiles people who are making a difference in  nonprofits
>
>Enjoy and please pass along,
>Donna  Hill
>
>
>--
>Read Donna's articles on
>Suite  101:
>www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
>American  Chronicle:
>www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>
>Connect  with Donna  on
>Twitter:
>www.twitter.com/dewhill
>LinkedIn:
>www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
>FaceBook:
>www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>
>Hear  clips from "The Last Straw" at:
>cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>Apple  I-Tunes
>phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=2592443
74
>
>Check  out the "Sound in Sight" CD project Donna is Head of Media  
Relations
>for the nonprofit Performing Arts Division of the National  Federation
of  
the
>Blind:
>www.padnfb.org
>
>
>
>
>
>E-mail  message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514) Database version:
>6.15510  http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>_______________________________________________
>Writers  Division web site:
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
>stylist mailing  list
>stylist at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  for
>stylist:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40cox
.net
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Writers  Division web site:
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
>stylist mailing  list
>stylist at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for

stylist:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/lists%40braddu
nsem
usic.com
>
>
>__________  Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>signature  database 5349 (20100807) __________
>
>The message was checked by  ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com

Brad  Dunse

This world is but a canvas to our imaginations

E Mail:  brad at braddunsemusic.com

Website:  http://www.braddunsemusic.com

Facebook:  http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1464323555

Twitter:  http://www.twitter.com/braddunse

MySpace:  http://www.myspace.com/braddunse

_______________________________________________
Writers  Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>

stylist mailing  list
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To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
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0aol
.com

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 19:47:37 -0500
From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <45E1939B69E346EC9B423371B9E8AE9A at RobertLesliePC>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Elizabeth

Hmm, on the specific issue of some blind folks getting into --- showing
off,
like doing something just to prove that they can do something --- well,
personally, I'm past that stage of -- call that sort of thing as
"acceptance," by the blind person themselves or the blind guy's attempt
to
get the sighted world to accept him/her. 

So as for my part of this discussion, it is more along the line of
knowing
that some of us blind folks can take photos and get some that are
acceptable
and may get some that would be considered as being very good, too. (Not
all
sighted folks can take a good photo, either.) 

thus, in general, my initial response to your email was a --- matter of
seeking out where you were coming from and equally , as I would do with
any
questionable comment by whomever about the abilities of a blind person,
I
wanted to counter what you were seeming to be saying; as it were, you
took
the glass as being half empty and I was saying it was half full.

Robert Leslie Newman
President NFB Writers' division 
Writers' Division Website-
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
Personal Website- 
http://www.thoughtprovoker.info

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Elizabeth Sammons
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:12 AM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography

Hi, Robert and all others.

Yes, I'm in complete agreement that this is an interesting discussion,
and
of course, knowing us as writers and thinkers, the discussion could and
should be 100% civil. (Smile.) I simply find it a mockery, a caper that
either wishes to say "Look at me, I can do this, too," to attract
attention,
or else totally missing the idea of good photography. I know you did not
mean it this way, Robert, and while I agree that listening to a voice, a
bird song, etc., can help one to find the subject, the difference
between
capturing that subject on a picture and making it artistic is the
difference
between saying "Look, I know the alphabet and can write a punctuated
sentence!" and "Look what a fine sentence I just wrote, evoking the mind
and
spirit of my subject." I don't feel that people who are blind should put
themselves out to pursue something for the sake of pursuit rather than
to do
a good job any more than as I quoted "Beethoven's Nightmare" the deaf
group,
they could call themselves quote real musicians end quote. For the
record, I
think they take themselves with a lot of irony, which makes  the band at
least marginally acceptable in my view. 

Admittedly, I stand on the more radical edge of this field of thought,
but
I'm putting  it out boldly for the sake of discussion. If anybody writes
something that makes me change my mind, I'll smile and let you know,
though
please note, I am not  particularly trying to say here please change my
opinion on this matter.

Sincerely,
Elizabeth

_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>

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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 21:17:27 -0400
From: "Elizabeth Sammons" <antigone at columbus.rr.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <77.D9.24046.B275F5C4 at hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Colleagues,

Well, I am glad that the subject of blindness and photography, or as I
might
call it blindness versus photography, is getting a lot of reaction.
Folks
here do not know me, but perhaps you will trust me that in general, I am
very far from being a ney sayer both in my personal life and in my
career.
As I dig into my own thoughts, here's what is eating at me when I
consider
the subject of blind camera people and photographs. Photography, I think
you
will agree with me, is by its very essence a matter of vision and view.
Blindness by its essence is the matter of having lost or never having
had
that very vision or view. This is why it still seems to me a mockery to
try
to combine the two, water and oil. And even if the effort is made, I
don't
get the point or the happiness of doing something along this line. 

I am appreciative of some of the reasoning raised such as wanting to
leave a
visual record to one's children, wanting to see if one can simply
capture a
subject in the frame, etc.. But even in the best scenario, say, the
subject
is captured successfully, I am reminded of a news subject that I saw
while
living in Russia about a young man who was blind and who fried his own
potatoes for dinner. So what? So does everybody else. So what's the
newsworthiness in that? Similarly I would say that there is nothing
praiseworthy in someone who is blind taking a picture beyond perhaps
some
desire to try a new thing, since it is a thing that anybody else can do.
Note, I am not talking here about the artistry of the photo... that is a
completely different matter which I addressed earlier.

Anyhow, here's to the diversity of opinion such groups support, and
thanks
for making me think on this issue a bit more deeply than prior to this
discussion.

Sincerely,
Elizabeth

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 23:38:31 -0400
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <6C607955DD654D6B9411E5FE8087A065 at Rufus>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Dear all,

I haven't followed this thread.  Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
product?  This can't possibly be something one can independently measure
without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
counterproductive?  If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
want that to be preserved at its best?  I'm not bashing it, because I
genuinely don't know how blind people would do it.  I'm open to
enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
has been bounced about quite a bit already.

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 03:29:05 -0400
From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID:
	<AANLkTi=P0mp2vYOfs=Xxjv9zJwBus50FqeXzLyzerUvp at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

The way I see it, many blind people are not totally blind. Quite a few
have some sort of usable vision. My boyfriend is one such example, as
am I. He has enough vision that he can use a CCTV to read things. We
found that using the handheld CCTV (Amigo), he could freeze the screen
over an object to take a "picture" of it, then magnify it and put it
on the TV if necessary to be able to see it. I think having a digital
camera and a large screen TV would be really great for him, because
then he would be able to see things that are quite small normally, but
he could blow it up to a size wher he could see it (for example, a
pretty bouquet of crepe myrtle flowers or the painting on a decorative
plate.

I have heard of some blind photographers doing so for the simple
reason of magnifying the picture to be able to see the faces of family
and friends. I know my boyfriend would be able to do this. I really
would give near anything to be able to do the same. Sadly, my vision
is not good enough for that.

At this point, my vision is almost exclusively light and colour
perception. However, as I can see colour, a high contrast image is
still something of a beauty to me. As an example, there is a blind
painter in Texas who did a painting called Eyes. It is purely black
and white, and very high contrast. It is very lovely to my eyes, if
magnifyed gratly.

For myself, I would love to be able to take pictures to share my life
with ffamily that I do not see often. Most of my family is in
Lousiana, and others are in Arkansas, South Dakota, Texas, and
overseas. I do not get to see them often, and they have not seen any
pictures of me in several years. I would love to be able to take
pictures of myself and things in my life (like my cat when she is in
one of her silly poses, or my boyfriend asleep with his dog laying
across his chest with a cute look on his face) to send to my family
and friends. Just because I am blind doesn't mean I don't understand
the importance of sharing images from my life with my sighted family
and friends. I know pictures are important to sighted people, having
been one myself for 23 years, and I wish to share images from my own
life with others.

My two cents,
Jewel

On 8/8/10, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I haven't followed this thread.  Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
> but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
> product?  This can't possibly be something one can independently
measure
> without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
> counterproductive?  If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
> want that to be preserved at its best?  I'm not bashing it, because I
> genuinely don't know how blind people would do it.  I'm open to
> enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
> has been bounced about quite a bit already.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%4
0gmail.com
>

-- 
~Jewel
Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 09:59:14 -0500
From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <1D0F972DFCFE4015BC1024CD7DE6151B at RobertLesliePC>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Elizabeth 

This discussion, if anything has allowed me/us to get to know you
better;
your take on blindness, your perception on societal reactions/acceptance
to
us, and more. And, I know that on these very complex facets of your ---
or
for any of us who have been revealing our personal philosophies, we have
been privileged to share only the proverbial "tip of the iceberg."  

And so after reading your latest message, what I'm feeling/thinking this
morning is that we are talking along the same lines of thought and, at
least
I am feeling we are --- let's see --- that more than anything, we are
sharing what could be seen as a "personal choice thing." that
bottom-line,
we are in agreement that  a blind guy can do most things (those things
that
we have an interest in and some talent for) which can include
photography.
Secondly, that yes, we jointly agree that with the very nature of
"photography" being a visual art/thing, that there are issues a blind
guy
would need to address to make it work. 

And so, I appreciate that you've been upfront with sharing your take and
choice. 
(Anyone else? How do you see this?)

Robert Leslie Newman
President NFB Writers' division 
Writers' Division Website-
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
Personal Website- 
http://www.thoughtprovoker.info

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Elizabeth Sammons
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 8:17 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography

Colleagues,

Well, I am glad that the subject of blindness and photography, or as I
might
call it blindness versus photography, is getting a lot of reaction.
Folks
here do not know me, but perhaps you will trust me that in general, I am
very far from being a ney sayer both in my personal life and in my
career.
As I dig into my own thoughts, here's what is eating at me when I
consider
the subject of blind camera people and photographs. Photography, I think
you
will agree with me, is by its very essence a matter of vision and view.
Blindness by its essence is the matter of having lost or never having
had
that very vision or view. This is why it still seems to me a mockery to
try
to combine the two, water and oil. And even if the effort is made, I
don't
get the point or the happiness of doing something along this line. 

I am appreciative of some of the reasoning raised such as wanting to
leave a
visual record to one's children, wanting to see if one can simply
capture a
subject in the frame, etc.. But even in the best scenario, say, the
subject
is captured successfully, I am reminded of a news subject that I saw
while
living in Russia about a young man who was blind and who fried his own
potatoes for dinner. So what? So does everybody else. So what's the
newsworthiness in that? Similarly I would say that there is nothing
praiseworthy in someone who is blind taking a picture beyond perhaps
some
desire to try a new thing, since it is a thing that anybody else can do.
Note, I am not talking here about the artistry of the photo... that is a
completely different matter which I addressed earlier.

Anyhow, here's to the diversity of opinion such groups support, and
thanks
for making me think on this issue a bit more deeply than prior to this
discussion.

Sincerely,
Elizabeth

_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>

stylist mailing list
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http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
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net

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 10:45:59 -0500
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [stylist] Blindness, Photography, and Division Web Site
Message-ID: <00e701cb37d9$f7cc8dc0$4001a8c0 at yourfsyly0jtwn>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Good morning everyone,

    With all of the discussion of the blind and photography our division
Web 
site is a wonderful place to showcase the talents of budding blind 
photographers. If you take pictures that would complement your story and

send it along with a discription of the photo these would be a great way
to 
spruce up our division Web site. One of our affiliates had some pictures

taken by several of its blind members on its Web site. I had a sighted 
person check all site photos before the pages in question went live. All

pictures including those taken by the blind people were excelent. Hence
I 
want to suggest that if anyone has taken pictures that would complement
an 
article or a story these would be great to post on the division Web
site.

    The only thing I ask is that you include a description of what's
being 
shown in the photograph along with the photo file attachment. It is this

discription that it used as the alt text to describe the images. Happy 
picture taking.

Peter Donahyue
Webmaster, National Federation of the Blind Writers' Division

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 11:55:05 -0500
From: BDM <lists at braddunsemusic.com>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20100809105401.02a2d7c0 at www.braddunsemusic.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Since you asked about opinions Robert :). In response to someones 
recent post. I too am not a nay sayer, optimistically an optimist :), 
and also an encourager and not complainer by nature. So  the 
following comment is meant to be taken in that light. I don't quite 
understand the point of it being a mockery as a blind photographer, 
professional or just someone clicking pics for a visual journal of 
their own or loved one's lives. I agree with the breaking news of 
fried potatoes thing, that's just folks exposing a lack of mature 
insight, or being able to actually think things passed the shallow 
threshold of being amazed we breathe on our own. But I'm not getting 
the mockery thing or how could taking pics as a blind person really 
make us happy or be enjoyable. I think it is a matter of the 
perspective of the reasons "why" we do what we do. If I can take a 
picture and regardless if I'm blind or not, it makes one say, "What a 
cool shot that is, I've been to that place?" Or "That is just a cool 
sunset shot", and they enjoy it,  isn't  that what it is about? I 
write  songs and perform them and yes I do like the process, I enjoy 
it for what it is, but what makes me write is to  try to evoke some 
emotion in a listener, take them on a mini-emotional trip. I know 
there are people who sing better, play better, write 
better,  entertain better, just like they might center an object 
in  a pic or what not better but that's OK with me. My drive as a 
writer is to let others enjoy or feel. They show their appreciation 
and I enjoy that in return. It isn't about my playing, writing or 
singing, its what it evokes from others that matters to me and drives 
me to continue.  My wife is no photographer she basically puts 
whatever she's taking a picture of  in the center of the screen and, 
bam, clicks it and its done. Yet she got really good composition 
comments  from a professional photographer on one of her pics. She 
doesn't even know what that is.
And I don't wish to beat this example to the ground as I'm sure we've 
all heard it a thousand times if  even once,  but it is relevant . 
The deaf musician who plays xylophone or whatever it is, in an 
orchestra. She in no way has the same enjoyment perspective as we do, 
but she enjoys it in her own way that matters to her and she's living 
the dream she wants regardless. Isn't that what it is all about? 
Probably more  applicable are blind web designers, beats me how they 
do it but they are out there, I can't do it, but that isn't my dream 
either. If we  wish to be seen as just people minus a label, we need 
to be secure in ourselves enough to allow us to be who we are  as 
well. There is much more to the picture than  pressing a button, 
there's the  people you get to meet while taking it, there is the 
vacation you are on, the triple story house of cards that is about to 
blow over if a flea jumps on it before you can snap its proof of 
existence... whatever. People want to do things because of the 
feeling it gives them, how are we to question the  origin of that 
feeling in whatever they decide to use as a vehicle. *smile*.

Brad

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 12:56:23 -0400
From: loristay <loristay at aol.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <CA2D3D2A.2B78.4F05.B4A5.B3A82B993C39 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Amen, Pete.
Lori
On Aug 7, 2010, at 11:02:27 PM, "Peter Donahue"
<pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

From:   "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
Subject:    Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date:   August 7, 2010 11:02:27 PM EDT
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Hello Elizabeth and everyone,

This reminds me of the reaction I got from some blind individuals I
knew?
in Massachusetts when discussing the possibility of blind persons
becoming?
guide dog instructors. These same people often criticized me for working
as?
a street musician rather than "being more gainfully employed." It was
their?
attitude, their unwillingness to explore possibilities, and being?
unsupportive of my dreams and life goals that put myself and a few
others on?
the streets to begin with.

Not all of us are cut out to be writers or photographers but for God?
sakes if a blind person chooses to become a guide dog trainer, a?
photographer, a writer, or whatever let's support them and quit trying
to?
steal their dreams! I sent a message similar to this one to the NABS
List?
earlier this past week concerning a discussion of blind drivers. We're?
federationists and our imaginative spirit and can-do attitude needs to
shine?
through at all times.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message -----?
From: "Elizabeth Sammons" <antigone at columbus.rr.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography

Hi, Robert and all others.

Yes, I'm in complete agreement that this is an interesting discussion,
and
of course, knowing us as writers and thinkers, the discussion could and
should be 100% civil. (Smile.) I simply find it a mockery, a caper that
either wishes to say "Look at me, I can do this, too," to attract
attention,
or else totally missing the idea of good photography. I know you did not
mean it this way, Robert, and while I agree that listening to a voice, a
bird song, etc., can help one to find the subject, the difference
between
capturing that subject on a picture and making it artistic is the
difference
between saying "Look, I know the alphabet and can write a punctuated
sentence!" and "Look what a fine sentence I just wrote, evoking the mind
and
spirit of my subject." I don't feel that people who are blind should put
themselves out to pursue something for the sake of pursuit rather than
to do
a good job any more than as I quoted "Beethoven's Nightmare" the deaf
group, they could call themselves quote real musicians end quote. For
the
record, I think they take themselves with a lot of irony, which makes
the
band at least marginally acceptable in my view.

Admittedly, I stand on the more radical edge of this field of thought,
but
I'm putting it out boldly for the sake of discussion. If anybody writes
something that makes me change my mind, I'll smile and let you know,
though
please note, I am not particularly trying to say here please change my
opinion on this matter.

Sincerely,
Elizabeth

_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>

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global.net?

_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>

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com

------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 12:57:27 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <4C603377.2020506 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Right on Jewel. Donna

Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885

Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.

Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4

Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org

On 8/9/2010 3:29 AM, Jewel S. wrote:
> The way I see it, many blind people are not totally blind. Quite a few
> have some sort of usable vision. My boyfriend is one such example, as
> am I. He has enough vision that he can use a CCTV to read things. We
> found that using the handheld CCTV (Amigo), he could freeze the screen
> over an object to take a "picture" of it, then magnify it and put it
> on the TV if necessary to be able to see it. I think having a digital
> camera and a large screen TV would be really great for him, because
> then he would be able to see things that are quite small normally, but
> he could blow it up to a size wher he could see it (for example, a
> pretty bouquet of crepe myrtle flowers or the painting on a decorative
> plate.
>
> I have heard of some blind photographers doing so for the simple
> reason of magnifying the picture to be able to see the faces of family
> and friends. I know my boyfriend would be able to do this. I really
> would give near anything to be able to do the same. Sadly, my vision
> is not good enough for that.
>
> At this point, my vision is almost exclusively light and colour
> perception. However, as I can see colour, a high contrast image is
> still something of a beauty to me. As an example, there is a blind
> painter in Texas who did a painting called Eyes. It is purely black
> and white, and very high contrast. It is very lovely to my eyes, if
> magnifyed gratly.
>
> For myself, I would love to be able to take pictures to share my life
> with ffamily that I do not see often. Most of my family is in
> Lousiana, and others are in Arkansas, South Dakota, Texas, and
> overseas. I do not get to see them often, and they have not seen any
> pictures of me in several years. I would love to be able to take
> pictures of myself and things in my life (like my cat when she is in
> one of her silly poses, or my boyfriend asleep with his dog laying
> across his chest with a cute look on his face) to send to my family
> and friends. Just because I am blind doesn't mean I don't understand
> the importance of sharing images from my life with my sighted family
> and friends. I know pictures are important to sighted people, having
> been one myself for 23 years, and I wish to share images from my own
> life with others.
>
> My two cents,
> Jewel
>
> On 8/8/10, Joe Orozco<jsorozco at gmail.com>  wrote:
>    
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I haven't followed this thread.  Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
>> but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of
their
>> product?  This can't possibly be something one can independently
measure
>> without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
>> counterproductive?  If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
>> want that to be preserved at its best?  I'm not bashing it, because I
>> genuinely don't know how blind people would do it.  I'm open to
>> enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
>> has been bounced about quite a bit already.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>>
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/
>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%4
0gmail.com
>>
>>      
>
>    

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End of stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9
**************************************