[stylist] Cars, Photography and Priorities
Jacobson, Shawn D
Shawn.D.Jacobson at hud.gov
Wed Aug 11 14:40:05 UTC 2010
I guess my feeling about the whole blind driving thing is that someone is going to do it for us whether we think it necessary or not. In this case, I see the NFB role as making sure that whatever comes out of the process serves us rather than ruling us. Technology is morally neutral. It can help us immensely or it can hurt us grievously. Our advocacy efforts need to be used to make sure it does the former, not the later.
If we get cars for the blind, it might help with some of the other issues stated below if for no other reason than that cars will humanize us, in the eyes of the sighted community. This is odd and ironic, but in our car culture, being a driver is almost necessary to fit in to much of our society.
Just some thoughts.
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 10:18 AM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: [stylist] Cars, Photography and Priorities
Dear Bridgit and all,
I am one of the people against using resources for cars for the blind and am
generally uninformed and therefore skeptical about photography by the blind.
I've already laid out my reasons for the former, but generally speaking, I
think those of us who are hesitant to embrace hard core projects like the
cars for the blind do it out of a sense of frustration with the status quo.
Here, in our current reality, there are blind parents who's children are
taken away for no other reason than they are blind. There is a persistent
unemployment rate among the blind that has not wavered significantly since
the organization began its work over 60 years ago. There are students who
must still fight to ensure that universities do not adopt textbooks they
cannot access. Yes, we should think forward to try to craft a better
existence for ourselves, but what do we do about the here and now, where
people are still struggling to be accepted? It seems to me that to place
our trust in technology is an endless cycle of catching up. Our notetakers
are a prime indication of how the blind are always ten steps behind. The
NFB is primarily a volunteer-driven operation, and it is also an operation
fueled by donations. Both resources are limited, and so then the question
becomes: Do we detract from our primary purpose to place our hopes on a
distant future, or do we dedicate our strength to helping people today,
right now? I do not put cars for the blind and blind photography on the
same level. It seems to me that blind people will either choose to snap
pictures, or they will not. Nothing is being detracted from the upward
mobility of the blind population as a whole. It is not even a question of
whether cars for the blind are a good idea. It is more of a decision of
whether the NFB is the right vehicle to make it happen.
Just my thoughts,
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:56 PM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: [stylist] Blindness and Photography
Dear List,
I saw a story on the Today Show a couple of years ago about a blind
photographer. He was totally blind, but was a professional
photographer. He was hired (by the sighted and blind) to work all kinds
of events including weddings. In the story, he had been hired by a
sighted couple to work their wedding.
Society (including us who are blind) do not always look outside our
perceptions. If we can't do it, then we think no one can do it. My
brain is not wired to think like a scientist, but that does not mean
others do not have the capacity to think as a scientist. People think
so many things are visual, and therefore not doable and enjoyable by the
blind. Initially Apple refused to make the I-phone accessible because,
according to them, it was a, "fundamentally visually-oriented product,"
implying that those with blindness would not enjoy it. Well, how many
of us have enjoyed our I-phones? If everyone thought visually-oriented
items and things were not possible for the blind, the NFB would not
exist.
It has been the mission of the NFB to break barriers and prove that the
sky is the limit for the blind too. That is what the Blind Driver
Challenge is about. It is not just about the blind being able to drive.
It reaches farther than that. In a nutshell, if we can make a car
accessible for the blind to independently drive, then we can make
anything accessible. The Challenge was issued to force us to think
outside the box; to change our perceptions and our realities.
As individuals, we have unique personalities, and we hold beliefs and
enjoy interest. We are not all alike, and we do not always share the
same ideas and opinions. Yet we (the blind) must accept that perception
is not knowledge. If we can drive a car then we can be guide dog
instructors, musicians, writers and even photographers. The world only
changes when we step out of our comfort zones and attempt the
(perceived) impossible.
Independence is more than learning alternative skills, and it is more
than being gainfully employed. Independence is a mindset. If we
believe in limitations then we do not embrace true independence. If we
(the blind) are so willing to accept the concept of limitations, then
how can we expect the rest of society to view us as competent, capable
people. Disability is also a state of mind. Many have dreamed and saw
that dream come to fruition because they worked hard and were willing to
think beyond the perception.
We must be ourselves, and we do not have to pursue things just because
we are trying to prove a point, but we should also not stifle those who
truly want to pursue certain avenues. Again, just because I don't
understand or enjoy some things, does not mean others feel the opposite.
My long ass point here is that we must look beyond perceptions,
including our own, in order for their to be progress, and not just for
those of us who are blind, but for the world in general.
Bridgit Pollpeter
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of stylist-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 12:00 PM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 10
Send stylist mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Blindness and photography (loristay)
2. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
3. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
4. Photography and Sighted Assistance (Joe Orozco)
5. Re: Blindness and photography (Judith Bron)
6. Re: Blindness and photography (Judith Bron)
7. Re: Blindness and photography (Priscilla McKinley)
8. Re: Blindness and photography (Robert Leslie Newman)
9. Re: Photography and Sighted Assistance (Robert Leslie Newman)
10. Re: Blindness and photography (BDM)
11. Chris Kuhl's July 4 Piece (Chelsea Cook)
12. National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights of Blind
Students (Freeh, Jessica)
13. Re: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9 (Bridgit Pollpeter)
14. Re: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9 (Donna Hill)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 13:03:28 -0400
From: loristay <loristay at aol.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <EC34B5E1.1C9A.4BD1.8A87.38FB61C4F79C at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
What makes you think sighted people don't often ask for assistance from
others, whether sighted or blind? ?No one is completely independent.
?That's the way of the world.
Lori
On Aug 8, 2010, at 11:38:31 PM, "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 8, 2010 11:38:31 PM EDT
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Dear all,
I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
product? This can't possibly be something one can independently measure
without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
has been bounced about quite a bit already.
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing?
_______________________________________________
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 13:17:01 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <4C60380D.8000609 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Joe,
If photos are to be used solely by the blind/visually impaired
photographer -- those of us who have some usable vision and simply want
to see things in what is often a better format than reality, because we
can stare at it for a long time and /or blow it up and change the
contrast -- then, no sighted help is needed to judge the quality of the
photo. Sighted help, I believe is useful in learning to aim and operate
the camera to begin with, and in the cases where a blind person wants to
share the photos with others. As Peter points out, he had sighted
assistance in checking photos prior to posting them on the division
website. With the low cost of taking digital photos and the fact that
you can e-mail them to your relatives, you can either count on them to
weed out the duds -- and sighted people have more duds than good ones --
or have a trusted sighted friend review them prior to using them. I
certainly don't suggest that anyone start sending out photos to
publishers as the art work of a blind person, for instance, without
having plenty of sighted opinions.
Two final points ... There's nothing wrong with wanting to see things or
acknowledging that visual imagery is hugely important in the sighted
world. There's also nothing wrong in "needing" sighted assistance.
Sometimes, I think we forget that people in general seek, value and
indeed need the opinions of others, be they sighted or blind.
Donna
Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4
Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org
On 8/8/2010 11:38 PM, Joe Orozco wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
> but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
> product? This can't possibly be something one can independently
measure
> without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
> counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
> want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
> genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
> enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
> has been bounced about quite a bit already.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
>
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/
>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
>
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 13:19:27 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <4C60389F.6040100 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Brad, well put and many excellent points.
Donna
Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4
Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org
On 8/9/2010 12:55 PM, BDM wrote:
> Since you asked about opinions Robert :). In response to someones
> recent post. I too am not a nay sayer, optimistically an optimist :),
> and also an encourager and not complainer by nature. So the following
> comment is meant to be taken in that light. I don't quite understand
> the point of it being a mockery as a blind photographer, professional
> or just someone clicking pics for a visual journal of their own or
> loved one's lives. I agree with the breaking news of fried potatoes
> thing, that's just folks exposing a lack of mature insight, or being
> able to actually think things passed the shallow threshold of being
> amazed we breathe on our own. But I'm not getting the mockery thing or
> how could taking pics as a blind person really make us happy or be
> enjoyable. I think it is a matter of the perspective of the reasons
> "why" we do what we do. If I can take a picture and regardless if I'm
> blind or not, it makes one say, "What a cool shot that is, I've been
> to that place?" Or "That is just a cool sunset shot", and they enjoy
> it, isn't that what it is about? I write songs and perform them and
> yes I do like the process, I enjoy it for what it is, but what makes
> me write is to try to evoke some emotion in a listener, take them on
> a mini-emotional trip. I know there are people who sing better, play
> better, write better, entertain better, just like they might center
> an object in a pic or what not better but that's OK with me. My drive
> as a writer is to let others enjoy or feel. They show their
> appreciation and I enjoy that in return. It isn't about my playing,
> writing or singing, its what it evokes from others that matters to me
> and drives me to continue. My wife is no photographer she basically
> puts whatever she's taking a picture of in the center of the screen
> and, bam, clicks it and its done. Yet she got really good composition
> comments from a professional photographer on one of her pics. She
> doesn't even know what that is.
> And I don't wish to beat this example to the ground as I'm sure we've
> all heard it a thousand times if even once, but it is relevant . The
> deaf musician who plays xylophone or whatever it is, in an orchestra.
> She in no way has the same enjoyment perspective as we do, but she
> enjoys it in her own way that matters to her and she's living the
> dream she wants regardless. Isn't that what it is all about? Probably
> more applicable are blind web designers, beats me how they do it but
> they are out there, I can't do it, but that isn't my dream either. If
> we wish to be seen as just people minus a label, we need to be secure
> in ourselves enough to allow us to be who we are as well. There is
> much more to the picture than pressing a button, there's the people
> you get to meet while taking it, there is the vacation you are on, the
> triple story house of cards that is about to blow over if a flea jumps
> on it before you can snap its proof of existence... whatever. People
> want to do things because of the feeling it gives them, how are we to
> question the origin of that feeling in whatever they decide to use as
> a vehicle. *smile*.
>
> Brad
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 13:20:40 -0400
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [stylist] Photography and Sighted Assistance
Message-ID: <A1D030516FCF4978973BD2A986A112B2 at Rufus>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Lori,
You misunderstand my point. I am not one of those hard core blind
people
who are opposed to sighted assistance by any means. My point is that
there
are a plethora of jobs where people can fulfill a job without the need
for
sighted people to double check the results. This is not to say that I
do
not have my supervisor eyeball my outbound grant proposals before they
are
submitted. This does not mean that Peter Donahue does not have someone
sighted double check his web content before it goes live, but in both
examples, we are fully capable of assessing the work along the way so
that
we can set our own standards for what is working and what is not. I
agree
that there are partially sighted people who can enlarge the images to
make
their own evaluations, but then this becomes something of a dancing
target,
because what is sufficient vision and what is the proper magnification
tool?
I'm talking about people who cannot see at all or people who cannot see
well
enough to determine for themselves what is poor, what is better, and
what is
great. I would personally hate to always have to rely on what other
people
claim, because beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. This should
give
me a sufficient self of fulfillment, but I guess I'm too much of a
control
freak and would want to be able to independently gauge for myself that
this
photo was great and that photo was whack. Know what I mean? But, as I
clearly pointed out, I've never given the issue much thought, so I'm
willing
to learn.
Joe
?Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all.?--Sam Ewing
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of loristay
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:03 PM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
What makes you think sighted people don't often ask for
assistance from others, whether sighted or blind? ?No one is
completely independent. ?That's the way of the world.
Lori
On Aug 8, 2010, at 11:38:31 PM, "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 8, 2010 11:38:31 PM EDT
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Dear all,
I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already
been raised,
but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
product? This can't possibly be something one can independently measure
without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity,
wouldn't a person
want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see
that the topic
has been bounced about quite a bit already.
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up
their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing?
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 13:59:27 -0400
From: Judith Bron <jbron at optonline.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <000301cb37ec$9c1766e0$3302a8c0 at dell5150>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=original
Some have a difficult time believing that a blind person can identify a
goal, do what they need to reach it and bbe successful at it. Many of
these
people feel better if we keep their roles as pitying folks standing on
the
sidelines and cheering those who make our daily existance possible.
They
forget that blind and otherwise handicapped people are first and
foremost
people. As people we have the right to make our own dreams come true.
As
for those other folks, who cares what they think? Judith
----- Original Message -----
From: "loristay" <loristay at aol.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Amen, Pete.
Lori
On Aug 7, 2010, at 11:02:27 PM, "Peter Donahue"
<pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 7, 2010 11:02:27 PM EDT
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Hello Elizabeth and everyone,
This reminds me of the reaction I got from some blind individuals I knew
in Massachusetts when discussing the possibility of blind persons
becoming
guide dog instructors. These same people often criticized me for working
as
a street musician rather than "being more gainfully employed." It was
their
attitude, their unwillingness to explore possibilities, and being
unsupportive of my dreams and life goals that put myself and a few
others on
the streets to begin with.
Not all of us are cut out to be writers or photographers but for God
sakes if a blind person chooses to become a guide dog trainer, a
photographer, a writer, or whatever let's support them and quit trying
to
steal their dreams! I sent a message similar to this one to the NABS
List
earlier this past week concerning a discussion of blind drivers. We're
federationists and our imaginative spirit and can-do attitude needs to
shine
through at all times.
Peter Donahue
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth Sammons" <antigone at columbus.rr.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Hi, Robert and all others.
Yes, I'm in complete agreement that this is an interesting discussion,
and
of course, knowing us as writers and thinkers, the discussion could and
should be 100% civil. (Smile.) I simply find it a mockery, a caper that
either wishes to say "Look at me, I can do this, too," to attract
attention,
or else totally missing the idea of good photography. I know you did not
mean it this way, Robert, and while I agree that listening to a voice, a
bird song, etc., can help one to find the subject, the difference
between
capturing that subject on a picture and making it artistic is the
difference
between saying "Look, I know the alphabet and can write a punctuated
sentence!" and "Look what a fine sentence I just wrote, evoking the mind
and
spirit of my subject." I don't feel that people who are blind should put
themselves out to pursue something for the sake of pursuit rather than
to do
a good job any more than as I quoted "Beethoven's Nightmare" the deaf
group, they could call themselves quote real musicians end quote. For
the
record, I think they take themselves with a lot of irony, which makes
the
band at least marginally acceptable in my view.
Admittedly, I stand on the more radical edge of this field of thought,
but
I'm putting it out boldly for the sake of discussion. If anybody writes
something that makes me change my mind, I'll smile and let you know,
though
please note, I am not particularly trying to say here please change my
opinion on this matter.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth
_______________________________________________
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http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 14:00:59 -0400
From: Judith Bron <jbron at optonline.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <000701cb37ec$d3244450$3302a8c0 at dell5150>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=original
Of course they do. The difference is they think their dependence on
others
is "normal". If blind people want to snap a picture the action, in
their
opinion, is abnormal. It's all in the perception of the action. Judith
----- Original Message -----
From: "loristay" <loristay at aol.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
What makes you think sighted people don't often ask for assistance from
others, whether sighted or blind? No one is completely independent.
That's
the way of the world.
Lori
On Aug 8, 2010, at 11:38:31 PM, "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 8, 2010 11:38:31 PM EDT
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Dear all,
I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
product? This can't possibly be something one can independently measure
without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
has been bounced about quite a bit already.
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 13:43:22 -0500
From: Priscilla McKinley <priscilla.mckinley at gmail.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID:
<AANLkTikWurTEUL00+Sz6P8vDkQjQavO8AL1PXkHeu8tE at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I have been reading this discussion with interest. I know blind
photographers and artists, but their work is based on usable vision.
I was totally sighted for half of my life and I have been totally
blind for the second half of my life, and while I will take pictures
for family and friends, I would hire someone to take pictures if I
needed them for a professional writing assignment. After all, I'm a
writer, not a photographer. I would want the photographs to be the
best for a sighted audience, as most of my audience would be sighted.
Sighted people don't want pictures that are fair. They want
brilliance. And I'm not saying that blind people can't take brilliant
photographs, but if a person has no sight, it would be next to
impossible to know the lighting and so on.
This leads to the whole idea of a contest for blind photographers.
Isn't it more likely that someone with usable vision would do a better
job than someone without? After all, lighting is everything for
photography. I have to wonder if Dr. Jernigan would like such a
contest. If you haven't read it, perhaps you should listen to the
dishwashing tape where he explains that we are all equal as blind
people. Would a photography contest illustrate this? Or would it
cause a divide? If there was such a contest, wouldn't it make more
sense to put everyone under sleep shades, as Dr. Jernigan insisted
should be done in the traning centers so that we would be equal as
blind individuals?
Just my thoughts,
Priscilla
On 8/9/10, Judith Bron <jbron at optonline.net> wrote:
> Of course they do. The difference is they think their dependence on
others
> is "normal". If blind people want to snap a picture the action, in
their
> opinion, is abnormal. It's all in the perception of the action.
Judith
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "loristay" <loristay at aol.com>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
>
>
> What makes you think sighted people don't often ask for assistance
from
> others, whether sighted or blind? No one is completely independent.
That's
> the way of the world.
> Lori
> On Aug 8, 2010, at 11:38:31 PM, "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
> Date: August 8, 2010 11:38:31 PM EDT
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Dear all,
>
> I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
> but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
> product? This can't possibly be something one can independently
measure
> without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
> counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
> want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
> genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
> enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
> has been bounced about quite a bit already.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
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>
> _______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 13:53:45 -0500
From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <8C99E3E5EB974B02A6D84E409103A1E3 at RobertLesliePC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Brad, well written! what you wrote, was in general what I was meaning of
personal choice, doing it for me and not really caring how someone else
thought about it. and as I say, I'm mature enough, comfortable in my
blindness, that I don't need to prove anything to anyone.
Robert Leslie Newman
President NFB Writers' division
Writers' Division Website-
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
Personal Website-
http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of BDM
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 11:55 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Since you asked about opinions Robert :). In response to someones recent
post. I too am not a nay sayer, optimistically an optimist :), and also
an
encourager and not complainer by nature. So the following comment is
meant
to be taken in that light. I don't quite understand the point of it
being a
mockery as a blind photographer, professional or just someone clicking
pics
for a visual journal of their own or loved one's lives. I agree with the
breaking news of fried potatoes thing, that's just folks exposing a lack
of
mature insight, or being able to actually think things passed the
shallow
threshold of being amazed we breathe on our own. But I'm not getting the
mockery thing or how could taking pics as a blind person really make us
happy or be enjoyable. I think it is a matter of the perspective of the
reasons "why" we do what we do. If I can take a picture and regardless
if
I'm blind or not, it makes one say, "What a cool shot that is, I've been
to
that place?" Or "That is just a cool sunset shot", and they enjoy it,
isn't
that what it is about? I write songs and perform them and yes I do like
the
process, I enjoy it for what it is, but what makes me write is to try
to
evoke some emotion in a listener, take them on a mini-emotional trip. I
know
there are people who sing better, play better, write better, entertain
better, just like they might center an object in a pic or what not
better
but that's OK with me. My drive as a writer is to let others enjoy or
feel.
They show their appreciation and I enjoy that in return. It isn't about
my
playing, writing or singing, its what it evokes from others that matters
to
me and drives me to continue. My wife is no photographer she basically
puts
whatever she's taking a picture of in the center of the screen and,
bam,
clicks it and its done. Yet she got really good composition comments
from a
professional photographer on one of her pics. She doesn't even know what
that is.
And I don't wish to beat this example to the ground as I'm sure we've
all
heard it a thousand times if even once, but it is relevant .
The deaf musician who plays xylophone or whatever it is, in an
orchestra.
She in no way has the same enjoyment perspective as we do, but she
enjoys it
in her own way that matters to her and she's living the dream she wants
regardless. Isn't that what it is all about?
Probably more applicable are blind web designers, beats me how they do
it
but they are out there, I can't do it, but that isn't my dream either.
If we
wish to be seen as just people minus a label, we need to be secure in
ourselves enough to allow us to be who we are as well. There is much
more
to the picture than pressing a button, there's the people you get to
meet
while taking it, there is the vacation you are on, the triple story
house of
cards that is about to blow over if a flea jumps on it before you can
snap
its proof of existence... whatever. People want to do things because of
the
feeling it gives them, how are we to question the origin of that
feeling in
whatever they decide to use as a vehicle. *smile*.
Brad
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 13:58:32 -0500
From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Photography and Sighted Assistance
Message-ID: <67CA3F62CA6D47938988C8A9AFBDE534 at RobertLesliePC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Joe, After I take a batch of pictures, I always get my wife or a friend
to
check out what've got. I bet I delete eight picks for everyone that I
keep.
(I now have an IPhone and need to figure out how to get the pics off of
it.
Just haven't taken the time to work on it.)
Robert Leslie Newman
President NFB Writers' division
Writers' Division Website-
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
Personal Website-
http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Joe Orozco
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 12:21 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: [stylist] Photography and Sighted Assistance
Lori,
You misunderstand my point. I am not one of those hard core blind
people
who are opposed to sighted assistance by any means. My point is that
there
are a plethora of jobs where people can fulfill a job without the need
for
sighted people to double check the results. This is not to say that I
do
not have my supervisor eyeball my outbound grant proposals before they
are
submitted. This does not mean that Peter Donahue does not have someone
sighted double check his web content before it goes live, but in both
examples, we are fully capable of assessing the work along the way so
that
we can set our own standards for what is working and what is not. I
agree
that there are partially sighted people who can enlarge the images to
make
their own evaluations, but then this becomes something of a dancing
target,
because what is sufficient vision and what is the proper magnification
tool?
I'm talking about people who cannot see at all or people who cannot see
well
enough to determine for themselves what is poor, what is better, and
what is
great. I would personally hate to always have to rely on what other
people
claim, because beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. This should
give
me a sufficient self of fulfillment, but I guess I'm too much of a
control
freak and would want to be able to independently gauge for myself that
this
photo was great and that photo was whack. Know what I mean? But, as I
clearly pointed out, I've never given the issue much thought, so I'm
willing
to learn.
Joe
?Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all.?--Sam Ewing
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of loristay
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:03 PM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
What makes you think sighted people don't often ask for assistance from
others, whether sighted or blind? ?No one is completely independent.
?That's
the way of the world.
Lori
On Aug 8, 2010, at 11:38:31 PM, "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 8, 2010 11:38:31 PM EDT
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org> Dear all,
I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
product? This can't possibly be something one can independently measure
without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
has been bounced about quite a bit already.
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing?
_______________________________________________
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<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 16:01:50 -0500
From: BDM <lists at braddunsemusic.com>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20100809155108.02a56188 at www.braddunsemusic.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Yep I agree. :) I am fortunate that pre-blindness and post, I've
always been concerned with my own thoughts and provings rather than
others.
Brad
At 01:53 PM 8/9/2010, you wrote:
>Brad, well written! what you wrote, was in general what I was meaning
of
>personal choice, doing it for me and not really caring how someone else
>thought about it. and as I say, I'm mature enough, comfortable in my
>blindness, that I don't need to prove anything to anyone.
>
>
>
>Robert Leslie Newman
>President NFB Writers' division
>Writers' Division Website-
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>Personal Website-
>http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of BDM
>Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 11:55 AM
>To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
>
>Since you asked about opinions Robert :). In response to someones
recent
>post. I too am not a nay sayer, optimistically an optimist :), and also
an
>encourager and not complainer by nature. So the following comment is
meant
>to be taken in that light. I don't quite understand the point of it
being a
>mockery as a blind photographer, professional or just someone clicking
pics
>for a visual journal of their own or loved one's lives. I agree with
the
>breaking news of fried potatoes thing, that's just folks exposing a
lack of
>mature insight, or being able to actually think things passed the
shallow
>threshold of being amazed we breathe on our own. But I'm not getting
the
>mockery thing or how could taking pics as a blind person really make us
>happy or be enjoyable. I think it is a matter of the perspective of the
>reasons "why" we do what we do. If I can take a picture and regardless
if
>I'm blind or not, it makes one say, "What a cool shot that is, I've
been to
>that place?" Or "That is just a cool sunset shot", and they enjoy it,
isn't
>that what it is about? I write songs and perform them and yes I do
like the
>process, I enjoy it for what it is, but what makes me write is to try
to
>evoke some emotion in a listener, take them on a mini-emotional trip. I
know
>there are people who sing better, play better, write better, entertain
>better, just like they might center an object in a pic or what not
better
>but that's OK with me. My drive as a writer is to let others enjoy or
feel.
>They show their appreciation and I enjoy that in return. It isn't about
my
>playing, writing or singing, its what it evokes from others that
matters to
>me and drives me to continue. My wife is no photographer she basically
puts
>whatever she's taking a picture of in the center of the screen and,
bam,
>clicks it and its done. Yet she got really good composition comments
from a
>professional photographer on one of her pics. She doesn't even know
what
>that is.
>And I don't wish to beat this example to the ground as I'm sure we've
all
>heard it a thousand times if even once, but it is relevant .
>The deaf musician who plays xylophone or whatever it is, in an
orchestra.
>She in no way has the same enjoyment perspective as we do, but she
enjoys it
>in her own way that matters to her and she's living the dream she wants
>regardless. Isn't that what it is all about?
>Probably more applicable are blind web designers, beats me how they do
it
>but they are out there, I can't do it, but that isn't my dream either.
If we
>wish to be seen as just people minus a label, we need to be secure in
>ourselves enough to allow us to be who we are as well. There is much
more
>to the picture than pressing a button, there's the people you get to
meet
>while taking it, there is the vacation you are on, the triple story
house of
>cards that is about to blow over if a flea jumps on it before you can
snap
>its proof of existence... whatever. People want to do things because of
the
>feeling it gives them, how are we to question the origin of that
feeling in
>whatever they decide to use as a vehicle. *smile*.
>
>Brad
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Writers Division web site:
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
>stylist mailing list
>stylist at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>stylist:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40cox
.net
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Writers Division web site:
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
>stylist mailing list
>stylist at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
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nsemusic.com
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>signature database 5353 (20100809) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com
Brad Dunse
Success in life is a result of good judgment,
good judgment is a result of experience,
experience is a result of bad judgment
E Mail: brad at braddunsemusic.com
Website: http://www.braddunsemusic.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1464323555
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/braddunse
MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/braddunse
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 22:26:39 -0400
From: Chelsea Cook <astrochem119 at gmail.com>
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: [stylist] Chris Kuhl's July 4 Piece
Message-ID:
<AANLkTimwbo5qAKCDxmYqS_gVhDswqhpQmLy4OBGyOX5g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Chris,
I read your piece and absolutely loved the interplay of the different
holidays. The dialogue and characters were clever and interesting.
I've just been away at Orientation and vacation, so did not have much
time to post. But don't worry: I enjoyed your writing very much!
Please keep sharing!
Very busy preparing for college,
Chelsea Cook
--
"I ask you to look both ways. For the road to a knowledge of the
stars leads through the atom; and important knowledge of the atom has
been reached through
the stars."
Sir Arthur Eddington, British astrophysicist (1882-1944), Stars and
Atoms (1928), Lecture 1
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 02:42:21 -0500
From: "Freeh, Jessica" <JFreeh at nfb.org> (by way of David Andrews
<dandrews at visi.com>)
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
Subject: [stylist] National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights of
Blind Students
Message-ID: <auto-000166292429 at mailfront1.g2host.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT:
Chris Danielsen
Director of Public Relations
National Federation of the Blind
(410) 659-9314, extension 2330
(410) 262-1281 (Cell)
<mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org>cdanielsen at nfb.org
National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights of Blind Students
Calls for Equal Access to Information and Technology in America?s
Universities
Baltimore, Maryland (August 9, 2010): The
National Federation of the Blind (NFB) responded
today to recent attacks on the right of blind
students to have equal access to technologies
used by America?s universities and to the
textbooks and course materials offered by
institutions of higher learning. The NFB and the
United States Department of Justice, Civil Rights
Division, have come under attack in recent days
for reaching settlements with universities
requiring that the universities refrain from
purchasing any e-book technology that is not fully accessible to the
blind.
Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National
Federation of the Blind, said: ?Blind students
must have access to the same textbooks and course
materials and the same technology to read them as
all other students. This is not only a matter of
fairness to blind students but a requirement of
federal law. For this reason, we applaud the
United States Department of Justice, acting at
our request and pursuant to its mandate to
enforce this nation?s disability rights laws, for
reaching landmark settlements with colleges and
universities ensuring that e-book technologies
deployed by these institutions will be accessible
to all their students. With the announcement of
a new accessible Amazon Kindle, the recent
introduction of the Apple iPad, and the promise
of future accessible e-book products?many of
which would not have been made accessible without
our advocacy efforts?colleges and universities
will find it increasingly easy to procure e-book
technology that benefits everyone. These
settlements benefit not only blind students, who
will now have access to the same books at the
same time and at the same price as their sighted
peers, but also institutions of higher learning,
which will no longer incur the administrative
burden of producing or procuring accessible books
through separate and inferior methods. To the
extent that inaccessible e-book technology
remains a barrier to the equal education of the
blind, however, the National Federation of the
Blind will continue to fight for the educational
and legal rights of blind students, and we will
not hesitate to call upon the Department of
Justice and other government authorities to
assist us in doing so when necessary.?
###
About the National Federation of the Blind
With more than 50,000 members, the National
Federation of the Blind is the largest and most
influential membership organization of blind
people in the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
/>United States. The NFB improves blind people?s
lives through advocacy, education, research,
technology, and programs encouraging independence
and self-confidence. It is the leading force in
the blindness field today and the voice of the
nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened
the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan
Institute, the first research and training center
in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:43:15 -0500
From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP24E319553B98F66A4DEBD3C4950 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jewel,
Most digital cameras have the facial recognization feature. I have an
Easy Share by Kodak and it does the facial or object identification.
I have a tip for taking pictures. I stand as close to what ever I am
trying to take a picture of possible then back up. It usually helps so
that I actually take a shot of what I want. Digital cameras are a
little different because they do not use a view finder, but have a
screen. I suggest taking time to get use to how the camera feels when
snapping a picture.
Anyway, I do not believe any cameras will just recognize a face just
because the camera is pointing in a direction. There still has to be a
focus, but this feature helps to stabilize the image.
Good luck finding a camera. There are so many!
Bridgit
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of stylist-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 12:00 PM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9
Send stylist mailing list submissions to
stylist at nfbnet.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
stylist-request at nfbnet.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
stylist-owner at nfbnet.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of stylist digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Blindness and photography (Jewel S.)
2. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
3. Re: Writers Division member featured by Stanford University,
Center... (KajunCutie926 at aol.com)
4. Re: Blindness and photography (Robert Leslie Newman)
5. Re: Blindness and photography (Elizabeth Sammons)
6. Re: Blindness and photography (Joe Orozco)
7. Re: Blindness and photography (Jewel S.)
8. Re: Blindness and photography (Robert Leslie Newman)
9. Blindness, Photography, and Division Web Site (Peter Donahue)
10. Re: Blindness and photography (BDM)
11. Re: Blindness and photography (loristay)
12. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 12:59:51 -0400
From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID:
<AANLkTikMxTLAm0THw3xcuz385+6YB2Mr84ZccfORZ0ek at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Does anyone know the Blind Pohotographer Blog? It can be viewed at:
http://blog.blindphotographers.org/
I check this blog from time to time, because it is an interesting one.
Also, my boyfriend and I want to go over to a nearby photographer's
shop soon, to do a full review for my blog (Treasure Chest for the
Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com) about a camera that has
a "smile detector." The camera has a special feature that when a
person smiles, it takes the picture while focused ont that person. It
can be turned off, too, if you want to take a picture of someone who
isn't smiling (like a baby who is crying but is hilarious in his
temper). There is a facial identification focus as well that will let
you know when you are centered on a face. I have not tried thie camera
out, and don't remember its model name, but am hoping to get over
there to do a review on it soon. Anyone know about these features?
It's a digital camera, by the way.
My two cents on the topic,
Jewel
On 8/8/10, BDM <lists at braddunsemusic.com> wrote:
> There is nothing like following your dream, no matter what anyone
> else thinks. I am also a performing songwriter and part of PAD, I
> think Robert was asking earlier. I do a loose blog on my site
>
> http://www.braddunsemusic.com/blog.html
>
> basically a live spew of mostly unedited thoughts which recently I've
> done a couple thoughts on following dreams. One of which is in a
> monthly story behind the song which I confess why the gal in the song
> has two different colored shoes on, while some might assume its due
> to my vision loss, it was not as you'd read :). Some blind folks are
> so over sensitive to being pegged as stereotypes they miss what they
> are meant to do, or at least infringe on what others are meant to do.
> Foul ball. Just do what is in your heart and go for your dream no
> matter what anyone else thinks. Those that criticize with such
> claims, unknowingly expose their own insecurities, which may or may
> not have to do with their blindness. There are four bases and one
> chance to stand over the plate.
>
> Brad
>
> At 10:20 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
>>Peter,
>>Bless you. This is right on and well-stated. I too worked as a
>>streetsinger. I sang in Philadelphia's Suburban Station and at
>>Penn's Landing year-round for over 13 years. There were some people
>>who objected to that. Although there is a rich history of excellent
>>blind street musicians, apparently some blind people feel that it is
>>only OK to be a troubadour if you're sighted. Incidentally, my work
>>led to many non street jobs. In schools I actually got to talk about
>>blindness issues and help bridge the gap of misunderstanding and
>>fear in the sighted world. I also produced 3 albums, wrote a book
>>and was chosen as the subject of an independent film.
>>
>>I hope you are still pursuing your dream. Nobody blind or sighted
>>should be stepping on other people's dreams. When it happens within
>>the blindness community, it always reminds me how true it is that we
>>are just like everyone else -- in this case, that's a shame.
>>Donna
>>
>>Read Donna's articles on
>>Suite 101:
>>www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
>>American Chronicle:
>>www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>>
>>Connect with Donna on
>>Twitter:
>>www.twitter.com/dewhill
>>LinkedIn:
>>www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
>>FaceBook:
>>www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>>
>>Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
>>cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>>Apple I-Tunes
>>phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244
374
>>
>>Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
>>Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
>>Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
>>www.padnfb.org
>>
>>
>>On 8/7/2010 11:02 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
>>>Hello Elizabeth and everyone,
>>>
>>> This reminds me of the reaction I got from some blind
>>> individuals I knew
>>>in Massachusetts when discussing the possibility of blind persons
becoming
>>>guide dog instructors. These same people often criticized me for
working
>>> as
>>>a street musician rather than "being more gainfully employed." It was
>>> their
>>>attitude, their unwillingness to explore possibilities, and being
>>>unsupportive of my dreams and life goals that put myself and a few
others
>>> on
>>>the streets to begin with.
>>>
>>> Not all of us are cut out to be writers or photographers but
for God
>>>sakes if a blind person chooses to become a guide dog trainer, a
>>>photographer, a writer, or whatever let's support them and quit
trying to
>>>steal their dreams! I sent a message similar to this one to the NABS
List
>>>earlier this past week concerning a discussion of blind drivers.
We're
>>>federationists and our imaginative spirit and can-do attitude needs
to
>>> shine
>>>through at all times.
>>>
>>>Peter Donahue
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Elizabeth Sammons"<antigone at columbus.rr.com>
>>>To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:12 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi, Robert and all others.
>>>
>>>Yes, I'm in complete agreement that this is an interesting
discussion, and
>>>of course, knowing us as writers and thinkers, the discussion could
and
>>>should be 100% civil. (Smile.) I simply find it a mockery, a caper
that
>>>either wishes to say "Look at me, I can do this, too," to attract
>>> attention,
>>>or else totally missing the idea of good photography. I know you did
not
>>>mean it this way, Robert, and while I agree that listening to a
voice, a
>>>bird song, etc., can help one to find the subject, the difference
between
>>>capturing that subject on a picture and making it artistic is the
>>> difference
>>>between saying "Look, I know the alphabet and can write a punctuated
>>>sentence!" and "Look what a fine sentence I just wrote, evoking the
mind
>>> and
>>>spirit of my subject." I don't feel that people who are blind should
put
>>>themselves out to pursue something for the sake of pursuit rather
than to
>>> do
>>>a good job any more than as I quoted "Beethoven's Nightmare" the deaf
>>>group, they could call themselves quote real musicians end quote. For
the
>>>record, I think they take themselves with a lot of irony, which makes
the
>>>band at least marginally acceptable in my view.
>>>
>>>Admittedly, I stand on the more radical edge of this field of
thought, but
>>>I'm putting it out boldly for the sake of discussion. If anybody
writes
>>>something that makes me change my mind, I'll smile and let you know,
>>> though
>>>please note, I am not particularly trying to say here please change
my
>>>opinion on this matter.
>>>
>>>
>>>Sincerely,
>>>Elizabeth
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Writers Division web site:
>>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.o
rg/>
>>>
>>>stylist mailing list
>>>stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>stylist:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40
sbcglobal.net
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Writers Division web site:
>>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.o
rg/>
>>>
>>>stylist mailing list
>>>stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for stylist:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
epix.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
>>>Database version: 6.15600
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
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>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Writers Division web site:
>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>>stylist mailing list
>>stylist at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/lists%40bradd
unsemusic.com
>>
>>
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>>signature database 5349 (20100807) __________
>>
>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>
>>http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>
>
> Brad Dunse
>
> Music is the only language in which you cannot say a mean or sarcastic
thing
>
> E Mail: brad at braddunsemusic.com
>
> Website: http://www.braddunsemusic.com
>
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1464323555
>
> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/braddunse
>
> MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/braddunse
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%4
0gmail.com
>
--
~Jewel
Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 13:09:44 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <4C5EE4D8.3070101 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Shelley,
When I was taking pictures, the light/shadow experience was a huge deal
for my nature shots especially. Still, I don't think sight is necessary
in all cases. Glad to hear you include photos. We're not all cut out to
take them, but it's important to realize the profound impact they can
have on sighted people. We need every tool we can find.
Donna
Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4
Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org
On 8/7/2010 1:13 AM, Shelley J. Alongi wrote:
> This is very very cool. A lot of times good photographs have to do
> with the light and its affects on surroundings and if a blind person
> can get a sense of how light reacts to surroundings and pick up clues
> I am sure it can be done. I have done many presentations not
> necerssarily for writings in which photography was a part of the
> picture. If you read fashion or home decorating magazines at all
> you'll notice a great emphasis on different kinds of light. It's all
> very logical and interesting. This works into photographs. I've always
> been one to leave the photographing to others as I have my hands very
> full at any given moment but as a blind person I've never left it out
> of my work. It is part of what makes experiences for all kinds of
> people enjoyable. Go for it!
> Shelley J. Alongi
> Independent Consultant with The Pampered Chef
> Consultant#628861
> Home Office: (714)869-3207
> Why You Should Start Your Own business with the Pampered Chef:
> 630-261-3537
> **
> NFBWD "Slate and Style" editor
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> **railroading, planes, romance,
> click on
>
http://www.storymania.com/cgibin/sm2/smshowauthorbox.cgi?page=&author=Al
ongiSJ&alpha=A
>
> updated July 14, 2010
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Leslie Newman"
> <newmanrl at cox.net>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 10:24 AM
> Subject: [stylist] Blindness and photography
>
>
>> Hey STYLIST members, here is an interesting site to check out. It's
not
>> about writing, but it deals with an skill that is often associated
with
>> writing (like in the news paper or books, etc.)
>>
>> Blind With Camera School of Photography is a virtual school with
>> step-by-step tutorials for the visually impaired to get started with
>> photography and guidance to sighted photographers for starting
>> photographic
>> workshops with local visually impaired people.
>>
>>
>>
<http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1103601039185&s=3910&e=001PsgFa0OJYOsU6mli
68as
>>
>>
FX7oGcOcZRAqA-mEOYBq2vk334oeaLxtCx-GpDgMf2vU3FbXtJyE1cQ4lsJK8cvdmXLbW68n
uq80
>>
>> INGrImyzskNBaClBHACQhKfKyTWq2GPy>
http://www.blindwithcameraschool.org
>>
>> Robert Leslie Newman
>> President NFB Writers' division
>> Writers' Division Website-
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>> Personal Website-
>> http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/qobells%40roadr
unner.com
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40epi
x.net
>
>
>
>
>
> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
> Database version: 6.15600
> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>
E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
Database version: 6.15600
http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 13:26:48 EDT
From: KajunCutie926 at aol.com
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [stylist] Writers Division member featured by Stanford
University, Center...
Message-ID: <b01ca.77a1cfe5.399042d8 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Indeed.. huge congrats Donna!!
In a message dated 8/8/2010 11:20:07 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
lists at braddunsemusic.com writes:
Indeed congrats Donna!
Brad
At 11:07 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
>Donna
>
>this is great news! You are indeed deserving of being honored for the
>widespread coverage that you do with your writings. We within the
Writers'
>Division, as being authors who happen to be blind, and no matter if it
is
>blindness issues we concentrate on, or not, we all are working to
change
>what it means to be blind, and though recognition for our work is
seldom
>given, it is a great feel when it happens.
>
>So keep up the good work!
>
>(All this goes for our sighted members, too; you are one of us.)
>
>
>Robert Leslie Newman
>President NFB Writers' division
>Writers' Division Website-
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>Personal Website-
>http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
>Behalf Of Donna Hill
>Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 8:34 AM
>To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>Subject: [stylist] Writers Division member featured by Stanford
University,
>Center for Social Innovation
>
>Hi Friends, <http://www.stanford.edu/>
>I have received a great honor which has led to publicity for the NFB
and
for
>blindness issues. I was chosen as the 2nd "Third Sector Grit"
>profile for Stanford University. "Donna Hill: A Profile in Third
Sector
>Grit" (July 23, 2010), by John Brothers has just been published by
Stanford
>University, <http://www.stanford.edu/> Graduate School of Business,
><http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/> Center for Social Innovation
>at: <http://csi.gsb.stanford.edu>
>
>http://www.ssireview.org/opinion/entry/donna_hill_a_profile_in_third_se
ctor
_
>grit/
>
>The project profiles people who are making a difference in nonprofits
>
>Enjoy and please pass along,
>Donna Hill
>
>
>--
>Read Donna's articles on
>Suite 101:
>www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
>American Chronicle:
>www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>
>Connect with Donna on
>Twitter:
>www.twitter.com/dewhill
>LinkedIn:
>www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
>FaceBook:
>www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>
>Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
>cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>Apple I-Tunes
>phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=2592443
74
>
>Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project Donna is Head of Media
Relations
>for the nonprofit Performing Arts Division of the National Federation
of
the
>Blind:
>www.padnfb.org
>
>
>
>
>
>E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514) Database version:
>6.15510 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>_______________________________________________
>Writers Division web site:
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
>stylist mailing list
>stylist at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>stylist:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40cox
.net
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Writers Division web site:
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
>stylist mailing list
>stylist at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/lists%40braddu
nsem
usic.com
>
>
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Brad Dunse
This world is but a canvas to our imaginations
E Mail: brad at braddunsemusic.com
Website: http://www.braddunsemusic.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1464323555
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/braddunse
MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/braddunse
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 19:47:37 -0500
From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <45E1939B69E346EC9B423371B9E8AE9A at RobertLesliePC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Elizabeth
Hmm, on the specific issue of some blind folks getting into --- showing
off,
like doing something just to prove that they can do something --- well,
personally, I'm past that stage of -- call that sort of thing as
"acceptance," by the blind person themselves or the blind guy's attempt
to
get the sighted world to accept him/her.
So as for my part of this discussion, it is more along the line of
knowing
that some of us blind folks can take photos and get some that are
acceptable
and may get some that would be considered as being very good, too. (Not
all
sighted folks can take a good photo, either.)
thus, in general, my initial response to your email was a --- matter of
seeking out where you were coming from and equally , as I would do with
any
questionable comment by whomever about the abilities of a blind person,
I
wanted to counter what you were seeming to be saying; as it were, you
took
the glass as being half empty and I was saying it was half full.
Robert Leslie Newman
President NFB Writers' division
Writers' Division Website-
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
Personal Website-
http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Elizabeth Sammons
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:12 AM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Hi, Robert and all others.
Yes, I'm in complete agreement that this is an interesting discussion,
and
of course, knowing us as writers and thinkers, the discussion could and
should be 100% civil. (Smile.) I simply find it a mockery, a caper that
either wishes to say "Look at me, I can do this, too," to attract
attention,
or else totally missing the idea of good photography. I know you did not
mean it this way, Robert, and while I agree that listening to a voice, a
bird song, etc., can help one to find the subject, the difference
between
capturing that subject on a picture and making it artistic is the
difference
between saying "Look, I know the alphabet and can write a punctuated
sentence!" and "Look what a fine sentence I just wrote, evoking the mind
and
spirit of my subject." I don't feel that people who are blind should put
themselves out to pursue something for the sake of pursuit rather than
to do
a good job any more than as I quoted "Beethoven's Nightmare" the deaf
group,
they could call themselves quote real musicians end quote. For the
record, I
think they take themselves with a lot of irony, which makes the band at
least marginally acceptable in my view.
Admittedly, I stand on the more radical edge of this field of thought,
but
I'm putting it out boldly for the sake of discussion. If anybody writes
something that makes me change my mind, I'll smile and let you know,
though
please note, I am not particularly trying to say here please change my
opinion on this matter.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 21:17:27 -0400
From: "Elizabeth Sammons" <antigone at columbus.rr.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <77.D9.24046.B275F5C4 at hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Colleagues,
Well, I am glad that the subject of blindness and photography, or as I
might
call it blindness versus photography, is getting a lot of reaction.
Folks
here do not know me, but perhaps you will trust me that in general, I am
very far from being a ney sayer both in my personal life and in my
career.
As I dig into my own thoughts, here's what is eating at me when I
consider
the subject of blind camera people and photographs. Photography, I think
you
will agree with me, is by its very essence a matter of vision and view.
Blindness by its essence is the matter of having lost or never having
had
that very vision or view. This is why it still seems to me a mockery to
try
to combine the two, water and oil. And even if the effort is made, I
don't
get the point or the happiness of doing something along this line.
I am appreciative of some of the reasoning raised such as wanting to
leave a
visual record to one's children, wanting to see if one can simply
capture a
subject in the frame, etc.. But even in the best scenario, say, the
subject
is captured successfully, I am reminded of a news subject that I saw
while
living in Russia about a young man who was blind and who fried his own
potatoes for dinner. So what? So does everybody else. So what's the
newsworthiness in that? Similarly I would say that there is nothing
praiseworthy in someone who is blind taking a picture beyond perhaps
some
desire to try a new thing, since it is a thing that anybody else can do.
Note, I am not talking here about the artistry of the photo... that is a
completely different matter which I addressed earlier.
Anyhow, here's to the diversity of opinion such groups support, and
thanks
for making me think on this issue a bit more deeply than prior to this
discussion.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 23:38:31 -0400
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <6C607955DD654D6B9411E5FE8087A065 at Rufus>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear all,
I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
product? This can't possibly be something one can independently measure
without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
has been bounced about quite a bit already.
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 03:29:05 -0400
From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID:
<AANLkTi=P0mp2vYOfs=Xxjv9zJwBus50FqeXzLyzerUvp at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
The way I see it, many blind people are not totally blind. Quite a few
have some sort of usable vision. My boyfriend is one such example, as
am I. He has enough vision that he can use a CCTV to read things. We
found that using the handheld CCTV (Amigo), he could freeze the screen
over an object to take a "picture" of it, then magnify it and put it
on the TV if necessary to be able to see it. I think having a digital
camera and a large screen TV would be really great for him, because
then he would be able to see things that are quite small normally, but
he could blow it up to a size wher he could see it (for example, a
pretty bouquet of crepe myrtle flowers or the painting on a decorative
plate.
I have heard of some blind photographers doing so for the simple
reason of magnifying the picture to be able to see the faces of family
and friends. I know my boyfriend would be able to do this. I really
would give near anything to be able to do the same. Sadly, my vision
is not good enough for that.
At this point, my vision is almost exclusively light and colour
perception. However, as I can see colour, a high contrast image is
still something of a beauty to me. As an example, there is a blind
painter in Texas who did a painting called Eyes. It is purely black
and white, and very high contrast. It is very lovely to my eyes, if
magnifyed gratly.
For myself, I would love to be able to take pictures to share my life
with ffamily that I do not see often. Most of my family is in
Lousiana, and others are in Arkansas, South Dakota, Texas, and
overseas. I do not get to see them often, and they have not seen any
pictures of me in several years. I would love to be able to take
pictures of myself and things in my life (like my cat when she is in
one of her silly poses, or my boyfriend asleep with his dog laying
across his chest with a cute look on his face) to send to my family
and friends. Just because I am blind doesn't mean I don't understand
the importance of sharing images from my life with my sighted family
and friends. I know pictures are important to sighted people, having
been one myself for 23 years, and I wish to share images from my own
life with others.
My two cents,
Jewel
On 8/8/10, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
> but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
> product? This can't possibly be something one can independently
measure
> without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
> counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
> want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
> genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
> enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
> has been bounced about quite a bit already.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%4
0gmail.com
>
--
~Jewel
Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 09:59:14 -0500
From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <1D0F972DFCFE4015BC1024CD7DE6151B at RobertLesliePC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Elizabeth
This discussion, if anything has allowed me/us to get to know you
better;
your take on blindness, your perception on societal reactions/acceptance
to
us, and more. And, I know that on these very complex facets of your ---
or
for any of us who have been revealing our personal philosophies, we have
been privileged to share only the proverbial "tip of the iceberg."
And so after reading your latest message, what I'm feeling/thinking this
morning is that we are talking along the same lines of thought and, at
least
I am feeling we are --- let's see --- that more than anything, we are
sharing what could be seen as a "personal choice thing." that
bottom-line,
we are in agreement that a blind guy can do most things (those things
that
we have an interest in and some talent for) which can include
photography.
Secondly, that yes, we jointly agree that with the very nature of
"photography" being a visual art/thing, that there are issues a blind
guy
would need to address to make it work.
And so, I appreciate that you've been upfront with sharing your take and
choice.
(Anyone else? How do you see this?)
Robert Leslie Newman
President NFB Writers' division
Writers' Division Website-
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
Personal Website-
http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Elizabeth Sammons
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 8:17 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Colleagues,
Well, I am glad that the subject of blindness and photography, or as I
might
call it blindness versus photography, is getting a lot of reaction.
Folks
here do not know me, but perhaps you will trust me that in general, I am
very far from being a ney sayer both in my personal life and in my
career.
As I dig into my own thoughts, here's what is eating at me when I
consider
the subject of blind camera people and photographs. Photography, I think
you
will agree with me, is by its very essence a matter of vision and view.
Blindness by its essence is the matter of having lost or never having
had
that very vision or view. This is why it still seems to me a mockery to
try
to combine the two, water and oil. And even if the effort is made, I
don't
get the point or the happiness of doing something along this line.
I am appreciative of some of the reasoning raised such as wanting to
leave a
visual record to one's children, wanting to see if one can simply
capture a
subject in the frame, etc.. But even in the best scenario, say, the
subject
is captured successfully, I am reminded of a news subject that I saw
while
living in Russia about a young man who was blind and who fried his own
potatoes for dinner. So what? So does everybody else. So what's the
newsworthiness in that? Similarly I would say that there is nothing
praiseworthy in someone who is blind taking a picture beyond perhaps
some
desire to try a new thing, since it is a thing that anybody else can do.
Note, I am not talking here about the artistry of the photo... that is a
completely different matter which I addressed earlier.
Anyhow, here's to the diversity of opinion such groups support, and
thanks
for making me think on this issue a bit more deeply than prior to this
discussion.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40cox.
net
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 10:45:59 -0500
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [stylist] Blindness, Photography, and Division Web Site
Message-ID: <00e701cb37d9$f7cc8dc0$4001a8c0 at yourfsyly0jtwn>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Good morning everyone,
With all of the discussion of the blind and photography our division
Web
site is a wonderful place to showcase the talents of budding blind
photographers. If you take pictures that would complement your story and
send it along with a discription of the photo these would be a great way
to
spruce up our division Web site. One of our affiliates had some pictures
taken by several of its blind members on its Web site. I had a sighted
person check all site photos before the pages in question went live. All
pictures including those taken by the blind people were excelent. Hence
I
want to suggest that if anyone has taken pictures that would complement
an
article or a story these would be great to post on the division Web
site.
The only thing I ask is that you include a description of what's
being
shown in the photograph along with the photo file attachment. It is this
discription that it used as the alt text to describe the images. Happy
picture taking.
Peter Donahyue
Webmaster, National Federation of the Blind Writers' Division
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 11:55:05 -0500
From: BDM <lists at braddunsemusic.com>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20100809105401.02a2d7c0 at www.braddunsemusic.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Since you asked about opinions Robert :). In response to someones
recent post. I too am not a nay sayer, optimistically an optimist :),
and also an encourager and not complainer by nature. So the
following comment is meant to be taken in that light. I don't quite
understand the point of it being a mockery as a blind photographer,
professional or just someone clicking pics for a visual journal of
their own or loved one's lives. I agree with the breaking news of
fried potatoes thing, that's just folks exposing a lack of mature
insight, or being able to actually think things passed the shallow
threshold of being amazed we breathe on our own. But I'm not getting
the mockery thing or how could taking pics as a blind person really
make us happy or be enjoyable. I think it is a matter of the
perspective of the reasons "why" we do what we do. If I can take a
picture and regardless if I'm blind or not, it makes one say, "What a
cool shot that is, I've been to that place?" Or "That is just a cool
sunset shot", and they enjoy it, isn't that what it is about? I
write songs and perform them and yes I do like the process, I enjoy
it for what it is, but what makes me write is to try to evoke some
emotion in a listener, take them on a mini-emotional trip. I know
there are people who sing better, play better, write
better, entertain better, just like they might center an object
in a pic or what not better but that's OK with me. My drive as a
writer is to let others enjoy or feel. They show their appreciation
and I enjoy that in return. It isn't about my playing, writing or
singing, its what it evokes from others that matters to me and drives
me to continue. My wife is no photographer she basically puts
whatever she's taking a picture of in the center of the screen and,
bam, clicks it and its done. Yet she got really good composition
comments from a professional photographer on one of her pics. She
doesn't even know what that is.
And I don't wish to beat this example to the ground as I'm sure we've
all heard it a thousand times if even once, but it is relevant .
The deaf musician who plays xylophone or whatever it is, in an
orchestra. She in no way has the same enjoyment perspective as we do,
but she enjoys it in her own way that matters to her and she's living
the dream she wants regardless. Isn't that what it is all about?
Probably more applicable are blind web designers, beats me how they
do it but they are out there, I can't do it, but that isn't my dream
either. If we wish to be seen as just people minus a label, we need
to be secure in ourselves enough to allow us to be who we are as
well. There is much more to the picture than pressing a button,
there's the people you get to meet while taking it, there is the
vacation you are on, the triple story house of cards that is about to
blow over if a flea jumps on it before you can snap its proof of
existence... whatever. People want to do things because of the
feeling it gives them, how are we to question the origin of that
feeling in whatever they decide to use as a vehicle. *smile*.
Brad
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 12:56:23 -0400
From: loristay <loristay at aol.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <CA2D3D2A.2B78.4F05.B4A5.B3A82B993C39 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Amen, Pete.
Lori
On Aug 7, 2010, at 11:02:27 PM, "Peter Donahue"
<pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 7, 2010 11:02:27 PM EDT
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Hello Elizabeth and everyone,
This reminds me of the reaction I got from some blind individuals I
knew?
in Massachusetts when discussing the possibility of blind persons
becoming?
guide dog instructors. These same people often criticized me for working
as?
a street musician rather than "being more gainfully employed." It was
their?
attitude, their unwillingness to explore possibilities, and being?
unsupportive of my dreams and life goals that put myself and a few
others on?
the streets to begin with.
Not all of us are cut out to be writers or photographers but for God?
sakes if a blind person chooses to become a guide dog trainer, a?
photographer, a writer, or whatever let's support them and quit trying
to?
steal their dreams! I sent a message similar to this one to the NABS
List?
earlier this past week concerning a discussion of blind drivers. We're?
federationists and our imaginative spirit and can-do attitude needs to
shine?
through at all times.
Peter Donahue
----- Original Message -----?
From: "Elizabeth Sammons" <antigone at columbus.rr.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Hi, Robert and all others.
Yes, I'm in complete agreement that this is an interesting discussion,
and
of course, knowing us as writers and thinkers, the discussion could and
should be 100% civil. (Smile.) I simply find it a mockery, a caper that
either wishes to say "Look at me, I can do this, too," to attract
attention,
or else totally missing the idea of good photography. I know you did not
mean it this way, Robert, and while I agree that listening to a voice, a
bird song, etc., can help one to find the subject, the difference
between
capturing that subject on a picture and making it artistic is the
difference
between saying "Look, I know the alphabet and can write a punctuated
sentence!" and "Look what a fine sentence I just wrote, evoking the mind
and
spirit of my subject." I don't feel that people who are blind should put
themselves out to pursue something for the sake of pursuit rather than
to do
a good job any more than as I quoted "Beethoven's Nightmare" the deaf
group, they could call themselves quote real musicians end quote. For
the
record, I think they take themselves with a lot of irony, which makes
the
band at least marginally acceptable in my view.
Admittedly, I stand on the more radical edge of this field of thought,
but
I'm putting it out boldly for the sake of discussion. If anybody writes
something that makes me change my mind, I'll smile and let you know,
though
please note, I am not particularly trying to say here please change my
opinion on this matter.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for?
stylist:
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global.net?
_______________________________________________
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http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
stylist mailing list
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------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 12:57:27 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <4C603377.2020506 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Right on Jewel. Donna
Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4
Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org
On 8/9/2010 3:29 AM, Jewel S. wrote:
> The way I see it, many blind people are not totally blind. Quite a few
> have some sort of usable vision. My boyfriend is one such example, as
> am I. He has enough vision that he can use a CCTV to read things. We
> found that using the handheld CCTV (Amigo), he could freeze the screen
> over an object to take a "picture" of it, then magnify it and put it
> on the TV if necessary to be able to see it. I think having a digital
> camera and a large screen TV would be really great for him, because
> then he would be able to see things that are quite small normally, but
> he could blow it up to a size wher he could see it (for example, a
> pretty bouquet of crepe myrtle flowers or the painting on a decorative
> plate.
>
> I have heard of some blind photographers doing so for the simple
> reason of magnifying the picture to be able to see the faces of family
> and friends. I know my boyfriend would be able to do this. I really
> would give near anything to be able to do the same. Sadly, my vision
> is not good enough for that.
>
> At this point, my vision is almost exclusively light and colour
> perception. However, as I can see colour, a high contrast image is
> still something of a beauty to me. As an example, there is a blind
> painter in Texas who did a painting called Eyes. It is purely black
> and white, and very high contrast. It is very lovely to my eyes, if
> magnifyed gratly.
>
> For myself, I would love to be able to take pictures to share my life
> with ffamily that I do not see often. Most of my family is in
> Lousiana, and others are in Arkansas, South Dakota, Texas, and
> overseas. I do not get to see them often, and they have not seen any
> pictures of me in several years. I would love to be able to take
> pictures of myself and things in my life (like my cat when she is in
> one of her silly poses, or my boyfriend asleep with his dog laying
> across his chest with a cute look on his face) to send to my family
> and friends. Just because I am blind doesn't mean I don't understand
> the importance of sharing images from my life with my sighted family
> and friends. I know pictures are important to sighted people, having
> been one myself for 23 years, and I wish to share images from my own
> life with others.
>
> My two cents,
> Jewel
>
> On 8/8/10, Joe Orozco<jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
>> but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of
their
>> product? This can't possibly be something one can independently
measure
>> without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
>> counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
>> want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
>> genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
>> enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
>> has been bounced about quite a bit already.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>>
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/
>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
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>>
>>
>
>
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------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:50:55 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9
Message-ID: <4C61836F.20605 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi Bridget and all,
My husband has a digital camera with a view finder, so they're not all
screens, though his is a bit more expensive.
Donna
Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4
Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org
On 8/10/2010 12:43 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote:
> Jewel,
>
> Most digital cameras have the facial recognization feature. I have an
> Easy Share by Kodak and it does the facial or object identification.
>
> I have a tip for taking pictures. I stand as close to what ever I am
> trying to take a picture of possible then back up. It usually helps
so
> that I actually take a shot of what I want. Digital cameras are a
> little different because they do not use a view finder, but have a
> screen. I suggest taking time to get use to how the camera feels when
> snapping a picture.
>
> Anyway, I do not believe any cameras will just recognize a face just
> because the camera is pointing in a direction. There still has to be
a
> focus, but this feature helps to stabilize the image.
>
> Good luck finding a camera. There are so many!
>
> Bridgit
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
> Behalf Of stylist-request at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 12:00 PM
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9
>
> Send stylist mailing list submissions to
> stylist at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> You can reach the person managing the list at
> stylist-owner at nfbnet.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of stylist digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Blindness and photography (Jewel S.)
> 2. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
> 3. Re: Writers Division member featured by Stanford
University,
> Center... (KajunCutie926 at aol.com)
> 4. Re: Blindness and photography (Robert Leslie Newman)
> 5. Re: Blindness and photography (Elizabeth Sammons)
> 6. Re: Blindness and photography (Joe Orozco)
> 7. Re: Blindness and photography (Jewel S.)
> 8. Re: Blindness and photography (Robert Leslie Newman)
> 9. Blindness, Photography, and Division Web Site (Peter Donahue)
> 10. Re: Blindness and photography (BDM)
> 11. Re: Blindness and photography (loristay)
> 12. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 12:59:51 -0400
> From: "Jewel S."<herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTikMxTLAm0THw3xcuz385+6YB2Mr84ZccfORZ0ek at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Does anyone know the Blind Pohotographer Blog? It can be viewed at:
> http://blog.blindphotographers.org/
>
> I check this blog from time to time, because it is an interesting one.
>
> Also, my boyfriend and I want to go over to a nearby photographer's
> shop soon, to do a full review for my blog (Treasure Chest for the
> Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com) about a camera that has
> a "smile detector." The camera has a special feature that when a
> person smiles, it takes the picture while focused ont that person. It
> can be turned off, too, if you want to take a picture of someone who
> isn't smiling (like a baby who is crying but is hilarious in his
> temper). There is a facial identification focus as well that will let
> you know when you are centered on a face. I have not tried thie camera
> out, and don't remember its model name, but am hoping to get over
> there to do a review on it soon. Anyone know about these features?
> It's a digital camera, by the way.
>
> My two cents on the topic,
> Jewel
>
> On 8/8/10, BDM<lists at braddunsemusic.com> wrote:
>
>> There is nothing like following your dream, no matter what anyone
>> else thinks. I am also a performing songwriter and part of PAD, I
>> think Robert was asking earlier. I do a loose blog on my site
>>
>> http://www.braddunsemusic.com/blog.html
>>
>> basically a live spew of mostly unedited thoughts which recently I've
>> done a couple thoughts on following dreams. One of which is in a
>> monthly story behind the song which I confess why the gal in the song
>> has two different colored shoes on, while some might assume its due
>> to my vision loss, it was not as you'd read :). Some blind folks are
>> so over sensitive to being pegged as stereotypes they miss what they
>> are meant to do, or at least infringe on what others are meant to do.
>> Foul ball. Just do what is in your heart and go for your dream no
>> matter what anyone else thinks. Those that criticize with such
>> claims, unknowingly expose their own insecurities, which may or may
>> not have to do with their blindness. There are four bases and one
>> chance to stand over the plate.
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> At 10:20 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
>>
>>> Peter,
>>> Bless you. This is right on and well-stated. I too worked as a
>>> streetsinger. I sang in Philadelphia's Suburban Station and at
>>> Penn's Landing year-round for over 13 years. There were some people
>>> who objected to that. Although there is a rich history of excellent
>>> blind street musicians, apparently some blind people feel that it is
>>> only OK to be a troubadour if you're sighted. Incidentally, my work
>>> led to many non street jobs. In schools I actually got to talk about
>>> blindness issues and help bridge the gap of misunderstanding and
>>> fear in the sighted world. I also produced 3 albums, wrote a book
>>> and was chosen as the subject of an independent film.
>>>
>>> I hope you are still pursuing your dream. Nobody blind or sighted
>>> should be stepping on other people's dreams. When it happens within
>>> the blindness community, it always reminds me how true it is that we
>>> are just like everyone else -- in this case, that's a shame.
>>> Donna
>>>
>>> Read Donna's articles on
>>> Suite 101:
>>> www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
>>> American Chronicle:
>>> www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>>>
>>> Connect with Donna on
>>> Twitter:
>>> www.twitter.com/dewhill
>>> LinkedIn:
>>> www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
>>> FaceBook:
>>> www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>>>
>>> Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
>>> cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>>> Apple I-Tunes
>>>
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244
>>>
> 374
>
>>> Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
>>> Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
>>> Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
>>> www.padnfb.org
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/7/2010 11:02 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Elizabeth and everyone,
>>>>
>>>> This reminds me of the reaction I got from some blind
>>>> individuals I knew
>>>> in Massachusetts when discussing the possibility of blind persons
>>>>
> becoming
>
>>>> guide dog instructors. These same people often criticized me for
>>>>
> working
>
>>>> as
>>>> a street musician rather than "being more gainfully employed." It
was
>>>> their
>>>> attitude, their unwillingness to explore possibilities, and being
>>>> unsupportive of my dreams and life goals that put myself and a few
>>>>
> others
>
>>>> on
>>>> the streets to begin with.
>>>>
>>>> Not all of us are cut out to be writers or photographers but
>>>>
> for God
>
>>>> sakes if a blind person chooses to become a guide dog trainer, a
>>>> photographer, a writer, or whatever let's support them and quit
>>>>
> trying to
>
>>>> steal their dreams! I sent a message similar to this one to the
NABS
>>>>
> List
>
>>>> earlier this past week concerning a discussion of blind drivers.
>>>>
> We're
>
>>>> federationists and our imaginative spirit and can-do attitude needs
>>>>
> to
>
>>>> shine
>>>> through at all times.
>>>>
>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Elizabeth Sammons"<antigone at columbus.rr.com>
>>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:12 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi, Robert and all others.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I'm in complete agreement that this is an interesting
>>>>
> discussion, and
>
>>>> of course, knowing us as writers and thinkers, the discussion could
>>>>
> and
>
>>>> should be 100% civil. (Smile.) I simply find it a mockery, a caper
>>>>
> that
>
>>>> either wishes to say "Look at me, I can do this, too," to attract
>>>> attention,
>>>> or else totally missing the idea of good photography. I know you
did
>>>>
> not
>
>>>> mean it this way, Robert, and while I agree that listening to a
>>>>
> voice, a
>
>>>> bird song, etc., can help one to find the subject, the difference
>>>>
> between
>
>>>> capturing that subject on a picture and making it artistic is the
>>>> difference
>>>> between saying "Look, I know the alphabet and can write a
punctuated
>>>> sentence!" and "Look what a fine sentence I just wrote, evoking the
>>>>
> mind
>
>>>> and
>>>> spirit of my subject." I don't feel that people who are blind
should
>>>>
> put
>
>>>> themselves out to pursue something for the sake of pursuit rather
>>>>
> than to
>
>>>> do
>>>> a good job any more than as I quoted "Beethoven's Nightmare" the
deaf
>>>> group, they could call themselves quote real musicians end quote.
For
>>>>
> the
>
>>>> record, I think they take themselves with a lot of irony, which
makes
>>>>
> the
>
>>>> band at least marginally acceptable in my view.
>>>>
>>>> Admittedly, I stand on the more radical edge of this field of
>>>>
> thought, but
>
>>>> I'm putting it out boldly for the sake of discussion. If anybody
>>>>
> writes
>
>>>> something that makes me change my mind, I'll smile and let you
know,
>>>> though
>>>> please note, I am not particularly trying to say here please
change
>>>>
> my
>
>>>> opinion on this matter.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>>
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.o
>>>>
> rg/>
>
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
>>>> stylist:
>>>>
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>>>>
> sbcglobal.net
>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>>
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.o
>>>>
> rg/>
>
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for stylist:
>>>>
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>>>>
> epix.net
>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site:
>>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>>
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
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> unsemusic.com
>
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>>
>> Brad Dunse
>>
>> Music is the only language in which you cannot say a mean or
sarcastic
>>
> thing
>
>> E Mail: brad at braddunsemusic.com
>>
>> Website: http://www.braddunsemusic.com
>>
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1464323555
>>
>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/braddunse
>>
>> MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/braddunse
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
>> stylist mailing list
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>
>>
>
>
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