[stylist] questions about autobiographical writing
Bridgit Pollpeter
bpollpeter at hotmail.com
Fri Aug 13 21:06:22 UTC 2010
Jewel and others,
I am a senior at university and will graduate with a BFA in creative
writing, specializing in creative non-fiction. I am also the editor for
the Nebraska affiliate newsletter, and recently I was hired by the Omaha
World Herald to write a blog column for their health and wellness
website.
I love to write fiction as well as non-fiction, but I seem to have more
of a knack for the non-fiction (to my chagrin!) Seriously, though, any
form of non-fiction writing can have an applied element of fictional
techniques. Non-fiction does not have to be limited to the traditional
sense of what non-fiction is.
That being said, all writers must follow a structure and may attention
to content. In writing autobiography, you have to determine what your
focus is. Are you telling your life-story, or do you wish to focus on
isolated events? Non-fiction still has to have a beginning, middle and
end, and the "main character" should undergo a change by the end. All
successful non-fiction follows this method. Journals can really help
flesh out moments in your life that you feel are important and
momentous.
Also, while you should retain as many facts as possible, non-fiction
such as autobiography, is more concerned with how events have shaped you
and your personality. Obviously this has sparked much debate because
there is a fine line between focusing more on emotions than facts, and
completely fabricating your story. People also have to understand,
though, different perspectives happen for different people and even for
the same person, but at different stages of their life. My memories of
a certain event may be slightly different from those who may have their
own memories of the same event. However, my own memories are shaped by
my age, state of mind, and my own sense of priorities around a certain
event. Muddy, huh?
Have fun with non-fiction too. Try different things like switching the
point of view, or do not follow a linear structure. Play with voice and
content. Be really creative and write your story in a different time
period. This may sound silly and ridiculous, but lots of non-fiction
writers experiment with style and form. We are only bound by our own
perceptions.
Here are some suggestions for a good read:
The Truth Book: Escaping a Childhood of Abuse Among Jehovah's Witnesses
by Joy Castro
Man Killed By Pheasant by John Price
My Misspent Youth by Meghan Daum
Julie/Julia: My Year of Cooking Dangerously by Julie Powell
Where I was From and The Year of Magical Thinking by Joan Didion
Those are just a few, but there are many more out there. I hope this
helps and let me know if I can do anything else.
Bridgit
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of stylist-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 3:25 PM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 24
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Philosophy discussion and question about September
monthly telephone gathering (Jewel S.)
2. Re: Philosophy discussion and question about September
monthly telephone gathering (Jacobson, Shawn D)
3. Re: Philosophy discussion and question about September
monthly telephone gathering (loristay)
4. Re: Philosophy discussion and question about September
monthly telephone gathering (loristay)
5. cars and writing (Bridgit Pollpeter)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 14:53:21 -0400
From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Philosophy discussion and question about
September monthly telephone gathering
Message-ID:
<AANLkTinoCLO31Higp602XpgALKTfq355FhbCfkCpg6+1 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hey Lori, thanks for this! I read the first part, and it definitely
has some good points to make! I will finish reading it this evening,
since I'm about to go out to get some errands done. But thank you for
sending this. It should give me a good start!
~Jewel
On 8/13/10, loristay <loristay at aol.com> wrote:
> Third try. ?sorry if these actually get through. ?THis is from a class
I
> teach on autobiographical writing.
> Lori
> EVERYONE HAS A STORY.doc
> On Aug 13, 2010, at 11:40:48 AM, "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Philosophy discussion and question about
September
> monthly telephone gathering
> Date: August 13, 2010 11:40:48 AM EDT
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> I would love to learn about writing autobigraphical essays. I find
> that writing about myself is the hardest thing to do, and would love
> tips on how to do it.
>
> ~Jewel
>
> On 8/13/10, Robert Leslie Newman <newmanrl at cox.net> wrote:
>> Hi you all
>>
>> Having a good old philosophical discussion is always a healthy thing.
I've
>> enjoyed the thread that has discussed cars, access to technology,
>> priorities
>> and all that. Knowing of the philosophy of the group that you belong
to,
>> is
>> knowing of that groups heart and soul. And knowing that it is okay to
>> openly
>> (with respect) discuss and even question the why of the groups
collective
>> agreed upon path is okay to do, is in my mind another super big plus
to
>> know. I always gain from seeing how a variety of our membership
explain
>> "why we do what we do." So I thank you all for sharing.
>>
>> Here is a question relating to the September monthly telephone
meeting.
>> Through one of our division members, we are looking to invite a guest
>> speaker who is a writing instructor. "Writing instructor," I know is
a
>> rather loose definition, but here is what I'm wanting to know from
you ---
>> in terms of writing, what would you like to ask to be presented? Like
what
>> specifics in --- punctuation or word usage? ah --- gee I don't want
to
>> limit
>> your thoughts. But I'd love to present a list of our desires, our
>> questions
>> that will allow this person to know more about who we are and where
we are
>> at in --- our desire to clear up that one little thing or our need to
be
>> reassured that where we are is okay, or that we need to hear that one
>> thing
>> that will shake us to our writers' soul and the new revelation forces
us
>> to
>> remake ourselves.
>>
>>
>> Robert Leslie Newman
>> President NFB Writers' division
>> Writers' Division Website-
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>> Personal Website-
>> http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%4
0gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> ~Jewel
> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/loristay%40aol.
com
>
>
--
~Jewel
Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 15:25:31 -0400
From: "Jacobson, Shawn D" <Shawn.D.Jacobson at hud.gov>
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List' <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Philosophy discussion and question about
September monthly telephone gathering
Message-ID:
<A1A3EBA504582C449F7E37E5039CCD1710F504C952 at EXMAIL03A.exh.prod.hud.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
A couple of things I would like to learn about from the writing
instructor.
First--punctuation around quotation marks. I do a lot of technical
writing for work, so grammar is not that much of a problem. It's just
that you don't use quote marks much in technical writing; so I never got
the hang of the grammar.
Research--tips on doing research for stories would be helpful.
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Robert Leslie Newman
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 11:32 AM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: [stylist] Philosophy discussion and question about September
monthly telephone gathering
Hi you all
Having a good old philosophical discussion is always a healthy thing.
I've
enjoyed the thread that has discussed cars, access to technology,
priorities
and all that. Knowing of the philosophy of the group that you belong to,
is
knowing of that groups heart and soul. And knowing that it is okay to
openly
(with respect) discuss and even question the why of the groups
collective
agreed upon path is okay to do, is in my mind another super big plus to
know. I always gain from seeing how a variety of our membership explain
"why we do what we do." So I thank you all for sharing.
Here is a question relating to the September monthly telephone meeting.
Through one of our division members, we are looking to invite a guest
speaker who is a writing instructor. "Writing instructor," I know is a
rather loose definition, but here is what I'm wanting to know from you
---
in terms of writing, what would you like to ask to be presented? Like
what
specifics in --- punctuation or word usage? ah --- gee I don't want to
limit
your thoughts. But I'd love to present a list of our desires, our
questions
that will allow this person to know more about who we are and where we
are
at in --- our desire to clear up that one little thing or our need to be
reassured that where we are is okay, or that we need to hear that one
thing
that will shake us to our writers' soul and the new revelation forces us
to
remake ourselves.
Robert Leslie Newman
President NFB Writers' division
Writers' Division Website-
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
Personal Website-
http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/shawn.d.jacobso
n%40hud.gov
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 15:26:55 -0400
From: loristay <loristay at aol.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Philosophy discussion and question about
September monthly telephone gathering
Message-ID: <B29DEF19.7C24.4589.BCF5.4D98DCABC600 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
You're welcome. ?i have quite a few lessons on this. ?Let me know after
you've applied the first and I will share more.
??I ought to assemble them into a book! ?many have appeared in Slate &
Style in the past. ?But I'm still stalling on the poetry anthology!
Lori
On Aug 13, 2010, at 2:53:21 PM, "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
wrote:
From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Philosophy discussion and question about
September monthly telephone gathering
Date: August 13, 2010 2:53:21 PM EDT
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Hey Lori, thanks for this! I read the first part, and it definitely
has some good points to make! I will finish reading it this evening,
since I'm about to go out to get some errands done. But thank you for
sending this. It should give me a good start!
~Jewel
On 8/13/10, loristay <loristay at aol.com> wrote:
> Third try. ?sorry if these actually get through. ?THis is from a class
I
> teach on autobiographical writing.
> Lori
> EVERYONE HAS A STORY.doc
> On Aug 13, 2010, at 11:40:48 AM, "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Philosophy discussion and question about
September
> monthly telephone gathering
> Date: August 13, 2010 11:40:48 AM EDT
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> I would love to learn about writing autobigraphical essays. I find
> that writing about myself is the hardest thing to do, and would love
> tips on how to do it.
>
> ~Jewel
>
> On 8/13/10, Robert Leslie Newman <newmanrl at cox.net> wrote:
>> Hi you all
>>
>> Having a good old philosophical discussion is always a healthy thing.
I've
>> enjoyed the thread that has discussed cars, access to technology,
>> priorities
>> and all that. Knowing of the philosophy of the group that you belong
to,
>> is
>> knowing of that groups heart and soul. And knowing that it is okay to
>> openly
>> (with respect) discuss and even question the why of the groups
collective
>> agreed upon path is okay to do, is in my mind another super big plus
to
>> know. I always gain from seeing how a variety of our membership
explain
>> "why we do what we do." So I thank you all for sharing.
>>
>> Here is a question relating to the September monthly telephone
meeting.
>> Through one of our division members, we are looking to invite a guest
>> speaker who is a writing instructor. "Writing instructor," I know is
a
>> rather loose definition, but here is what I'm wanting to know from
you ---
>> in terms of writing, what would you like to ask to be presented? Like
what
>> specifics in --- punctuation or word usage? ah --- gee I don't want
to
>> limit
>> your thoughts. But I'd love to present a list of our desires, our
>> questions
>> that will allow this person to know more about who we are and where
we are
>> at in --- our desire to clear up that one little thing or our need to
be
>> reassured that where we are is okay, or that we need to hear that one
>> thing
>> that will shake us to our writers' soul and the new revelation forces
us
>> to
>> remake ourselves.
>>
>>
>> Robert Leslie Newman
>> President NFB Writers' division
>> Writers' Division Website-
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>> Personal Website-
>> http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%4
0gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> ~Jewel
> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/loristay%40aol.
com
>
>
--?
~Jewel
Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
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com
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 15:31:25 -0400
From: loristay <loristay at aol.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Philosophy discussion and question about
September monthly telephone gathering
Message-ID: <5FB917C5.8D22.478D.B28C.5EF4A8855B6A at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
For the most part, punctuation goes inside the end quote. ?I've seen
exceptions with question marks which are part of the greater sentence.
?For example, if the question is totally included in the quotes, the
question mark goes inside the quote. ?If the quotes are around one or
two words or a phrase that is not asking a question, the question mark
goes outside the quotes. ?In England they don't always agree with us,
though.
A good reference book is Eats, Shoots & Leaves, by Lynne Trusse if it is
available in accessible format. ?otherwise, get hold of the Elements of
Style by Strunk and White. ?I know that one is.
Lori
On Aug 13, 2010, at 3:25:31 PM, "Jacobson, Shawn D"
<Shawn.D.Jacobson at hud.gov> wrote:
A couple of things I would like to learn about from the writing
instructor.
First--punctuation around quotation marks. I do a lot of technical
writing for work, so grammar is not that much of a problem. It's just
that you don't use quote marks much in technical writing; so I never got
the hang of the grammar.
Research--tips on doing research for stories would be helpful.
Shawn
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 15:24:36 -0500
From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [stylist] cars and writing
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP8741BFE103EED549C8DE41C4980 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
My, this discussion has sparked much interest and debate. I think these
dialogues are important and help us to shape our own perspectives and
attitudes. Who we are translates to our writing or any other pursuit we
attempt in life.
Even though the objectives of the Writer's Division and email list are
to offer feedback, criticism and support pertaining to our writing, we
are also a resource for those who have questions or are seeking
information. We are a collective who have similar interest which
provides an outlet for support and assistance. The NFB tries to promote
a certain philosophy that we should embrace and promote in return, so it
is only fitting that individual divisions maintain this goal. I also
feel it is healthy for any group to express different views on subjects
and allow all to digest and draw conclusions.
It seems we are at an empass when it comes to the Blind Driver
Challenge. Myself, I believe each argument has valid points. The great
thing about a democracy is that we all can openly choose a side, and we
are allowed to disagree. Coercion does not bring progress and
innovation. We were created as unique individuals and we should
recognize this uniqueness in our lives.
It seems most of us agree on the big issues. We all support many of the
efforts of the NFB, our differences lye in where we individually stand
on issues like the Blind Driver Challenge, and where funding is
directed. Otherwise, our main goals are similar.
Amid all the perspectives, debates and ideaology, the NFB attempts to
advocate for a better future for the blind. The NFB does not place
distinctions and limitations on the blind. Decisions must be made and
we will not always agree with said decisions, but ultimately, I believe
the Federation is supporting, creating and funding programs and
initiatives that will make the lives of today's blind better.
P. S. On a side note, I have always thought it was reckless, dangerous
and stupid for blind people to get behind an operating vehicle
regardless of vision level or if a sighted "guide" was present. It is
not funny and driving is not such a big deal that we must experience,
then again I once could drive, but nonetheless, you truly are not
missing much if you have never driven, except maybe the freedom of
coming and going when you want, but that is a completely different
experience than driving. Sex is a much better experience than driving!
Oh man, I will probably be crucified for that comment! *smirk* Of
course, always practice safety in any endeavor!
Also, the car for the blind is a completely different thing from a blind
person driving in an open field (or anywhere else) with assistance. The
car for the blind will be 100% safe and effective for a blind person to
operate, and we will be able to drive it independently. This is not an
argument for working on the car or not, I am just stating the
distinction. And now I am done.
Bridgit
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of stylist-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 10:18 AM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 21
Send stylist mailing list submissions to
stylist at nfbnet.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of stylist digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Blindness Blog Reminder--Employment (Anita Adkins)
2. blind driving, hybrid cars and writing (loristay)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 08:19:02 -0400
From: "Anita Adkins" <aadkins7 at verizon.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>,
"National
Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>,
"Jobs for the Blind" <jobs at nfbnet.org>,
<EyesOnEmployment at yahoogroups.com>, "National Organization
of Blind
Educators Mailing List" <nobe-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [stylist] Blindness Blog Reminder--Employment
Message-ID: <B8D7981E2A8148D987BE5E6EBAD1748F at AnitaAdkinsPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello to all,
Last week, the Blindness Blog discussed shopping. This week, I present
some barriers for employment that result from blindness, and I share
some possible sollutions, though they may not be acceptable sollutions
to all of us. Enjoy, and don't forget to check back each week. Also,
feel free to comment on the blog.
www.blindnessblog.blogspot.com
Remember, Jesus Loves You.
Anita Adkins
81 E. Mechanic ST
APT 207
Frostburg, MD 21532
p: 301-689-5212
c: 301-876-8669
aadkins7 at verizon.net
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:17:34 -0400
From: loristay <loristay at aol.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [stylist] blind driving, hybrid cars and writing
Message-ID: <4DC7BF40.E3EE.4FA1.A090.93C6FCC42272 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I can't fault your sense of humor. ?No, I never thought you were narrow
minded. ?Frankly there have been issues of which Dr. Maurer and I
disagree. ?But it's an internal thing. ?That's why we have our
discussions, and that's one of the reasons we have conventions. ?Dr.
Maurer wanted the blind-driven cars. ?the convention didn't want to
spend the money. ?That's why the challenge was given to the colleges.
Do I think this will lead to a fleet of blind-driven cars? ?Not
necessarily. ?What I do believe is that the car makers are anxious to
make safer cars. ?Hence, the cars that wake you up if you fall asleep (I
want one of those!), the cars that slow you down if you are too close to
the car in front of you; the cars with rear cameras to let you know if
your toddler is behind you, and so on. ?I'm all for a hybrid car that
makes some sort of sound. ?I think each carmaker should have a
distinctive musical note, so that on the highway you will hear
everything from Beethoven's Ode to joy to Kiss's ...whatever they do.
?(I'm not a rock fan). ?or alternatively, a melody rather than one note.
?My husband thinks i'm nuts. ?He's right. ?
As for blind people driving cars, they already do. ?My friend k.t. down
in Florida used to complain mightily about how the trees jumped out at
her on the road until her husband took over. ?Unfortunately, he was from
England and used to drive on the wrong side of the road till they
divorced. ?I've lost track of k.t. ?I hope she hasn't gone back to
driving. ?I heard of a gent who does cross country driving in England
with a navigator. ?There was one story of an older man who would sit his
grandson on his lap and let the kid tell him what was going on in front
of them. ?And my crazy son in law took David driving once through the
parking lots in Jones Beach. ?David turned out to be an inspired driver,
but he hasn't gotten behind the wheel since. ?Especially once he was
told to stop, and instead of easing onto the brake, he jammed on it and
later blessed his seat belt. ?He might weigh in on this since he's on
the list.
I guess we could label anything we write about "writing." ?anyone else
have an opinion here?
Lori
On Aug 12, 2010, at 9:32:15 PM, "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [stylist] stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 13
Date: August 12, 2010 9:32:15 PM EDT
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Hi Lori,
Writing is writing. A good debate is as good of a productive writing
exercise as anything else, and while I could refute your points, I think
this particular debate is not going to change anyone's minds. My only
genuine request all along on this and other lists has been that people
see
the issue from different vantage points. The only response to my and
other
people's real-world objections has been that we are narrow-minded and a
challenge to people's dreams. This could not be further from the truth.
Vehement debates occur in the board rooms of the very innovators who
have
shaped our technological existence today, and there is no reason why the
NFB
should be an exception to what is otherwise a traditional
decision-making
process. I do not buy into any ideas just because the majority or the
leadership says I should. I also do not believe in opposition for the
sake
of discussion, but if people have questions, people should feel
confident
enough to ask. It's a weak comparison, but if we wanted to stay on topic
to
the writing process, we might very well chalk this up to the
brainstorming
before the commencement of a story. We are, after all, at the beginning
of
the concept, or at least at the beginning of the planning process. Again
I
point out that it is not a matter of those in favor versus those against
the
idea of cars for the blind. Rather, it is a disagreement of what item
should come first in the great success narrative to the blind's full
integration into mainstream society. Yes, I know. It's a pathetic
attempt
to stay on topic, but work with me here. *grin*
Respectfully,
Joe
?Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all.?--Sam Ewing?
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org?
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of loristay
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 8:54 PM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 13
Quite a few incorrect assumptions here, Joe.
The technology for this car is not dependent on satellites or?
on sensors in the road. ?A film was shown at convention that?
explained the technology. ?It had to do with a pad one put?
one's hand on and the pad substituted for one's eyes with?
sensory input. ?Very interesting. ?Not about to be widely?
available, don't worry.
Also, the convention was attended by just under three thousand?
people. ?Not bad for an economic downturn.
As to why NFB has begun to be a consumer provider, as in the?
three rehab centers for the blind, that had to do with the fact?
good rehab was not available elsewhere. ?THe centers are not?
funded by NFB, however. ?Some NFB people run them, and use the?
NFB philosophy, but the bulk of the funding comes from payment?
by the Commissions for the blind for the rehab itself.
I won't go into how the cars project is funded again, since I?
already have.
But this business aside, I am not sure what it all has to do?
with writing. ?How about taking this subject to the Writers chat list?
Lori Stayer?
On Aug 11, 2010, at 5:41:23 PM, "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [stylist] stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 13
Date: August 11, 2010 5:41:23 PM EDT
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Hi Bridgit,
I don't understand the need to use a car for the blind as a?
symbol of what
blind people can accomplish. I finished my undergraduate and graduate
studies, have successfully held down two good jobs since?
graduating, and now
run a fairly successful freelance writing business on the side.?
I did not
need a car to prove I am worthy of being taken seriously, and?
as we know, I
am not a poster child for success. There have been dozens of people who
have gone on to do even better with and without a college education.
Further, I do not agree that the NFB has made the driving challenge just
another side project. The focus of this year's fundraiser was?
the cars for
the blind. In a month during which 131,000 more jobs were lost to the
economic climate, we were focused on drawing attention to a project that
will take many years to fully implement rather than host a job?
fair or some
other employment outreach to employ people now.
Borrowing from a previous post, my concern is the massive overhaul that
would need to occur for these cars to function. You'd need to retrofit
traffic lights, stop signs, speed limit posts, construction?
warnings and all
manner of traffic indicators to communicate with the onboard vehicle
computer. In order for the system to work, you'd need to retrofit all
vehicles. Otherwise, how is a car for the blind supposed to?
determine when
it is safe to change lanes on a speedway, especially if the?
other driver is
not willing to yield? How does the computer compensate for?
abrupt changes
like black ice, and if the system is relying on satellites, as it must
surely have to do to navigate accurately, what happens in tunnels where
reception is lost? How do we keep people from reverting to their old
stereotypes of the blind when one day the technology fails, and?
there is a
pedestrian accident? If a sighted person were responsible, we?
would chalk
it up to a regrettable but traditional accident. If a blind person were
behind the wheel, it would be because the person was blind. We need to
change minds before we can fully integrate change.
My issue with this project is not the idea itself. There is a?
plethora of
technology today that could not have been imagined even 20 years ago. My
concern is partially owed to how the concept is being sold and?
advocated.
One of the compelling reasons to support this project appears to be the
reduction in unemployment. Ironically, the NFB did not support the
accessible currency idea, among other reasons, because it did not feel
accessible currency could be linked to a person's ability to hold a job.
The thought was that people could either fold their bills or?
use devices to
identify them. Now we're somehow saying that a person's?
inability to hold a
job is related to a person's inability to get there. I am not?
ignorant to
the fact that there are areas where public transportation is weak or
nonexistent, but this is not a brand-new issue. A lot of local chapters
routinely battle with their transit authorities to expand service, and I
have to wonder why it is we have not taken a more systematic?
strategy to try
to mitigate the problem.
Yet, more to the point, the problem with linking accessible currency and
cars for the blind to employment is that these factors only answer the
question of means to employment, not employment opportunities?
themselves.
The high unemployment rate partly has to do with?
qualifications. It partly
has to do with independent living skills. It more than likely has to do
with other issues, but I would be willing to bet that it?
largely has to do
with attitudes. Until we do more to change the overwhelming?
perception that
blind people are inept, I don't know how we're supposed to?
assume drivable
cars are going to make blind people employable. My sense is?
that if blind
people were seen driving by, the casual bystander would be awed by the
engineering that went into the vehicle, not by the blind driver.
I won't even elaborate on the cost of such a technology to the?
end consumer.
I'll only say that we should look around at the cost of?
adaptive technology
now. Add this to the cost of a new vehicle, its general?
maintenance and the
expense of its special technology. Is someone going to argue that the
introduction of these vehicles is going to miraculously place?
blind people
in comfortable jobs with ample salaries to cover the expenses?
I completely agree that nothing substantial will happen if people do not
pitch in to help. More people should participate in chapters and attend
conventions, but to me this is a separate issue. Perhaps the?
reason we have
that problem is because the NFB chose to move from a consumer group to a
consumer provider, but I honestly do not know enough to?
speculate why the
numbers have continuously dropped. What I do know is that if?
people cannot
answer the hard questions amongst ourselves about cars for the blind, we
cannot possibly expect sponsors to support the idea either. People who
raise objections are being scene as naysayers and general obstacles to
innovation. Speaking for myself, I believe and embrace?
innovation so long
as we do not skip steps to get to the end result. A couple?
generations from
now there may very well be cars blind people can drive, but we are not
meeting our own mission if we cannot adequately make things easier for
people today. If people who raise valid points about how the?
technology is
supposed to benefit the blind are shut out, I think we run a?
risk of further
depleting the general participation of available advocates. For an
organization as large as this, I am sure there is a way to get everyone
behind a unified message.
Respectfully,
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up?
their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing?
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org?
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 4:25 PM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [stylist] stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 13
Jo and all,
You may have missed my point, and the point of the Federation. Numerous
resources are being poured into programs, initiatives and even law suits
to ensure equality for the blind. The problem is not necessarily the
resources, but it those who still refuse to recognize that the blind can
be capable and independent.
Here in Nebraska, we tried to pass legislation so that blind students
had the right to be taught Braille, and also to establish a better
standard for Braille instructors. We had school administrators, those
who are suppose to ensure equal education for all, testify that Braille
was too difficult and outdated. The legislation did not pass. However,
we are still pushing this issue and will not stop until our goal is
reached.
The Federation spends millions doing similar things. Because of the
Federation the blind have a fighting chance to stand up to society.
Nothing has ever changed in the world without a organized group. The
American and French Revolutions grew and were successful because people
decided to organize. Change also does not happen over night. The NFB
always boast 50,000 members, yet we only have 2500 attend convention
every year. If more of us would get off our asses and do our part,
perhaps more change would happen.
I do not follow something because it is popular or because I can not
think for myself. I view a subject from all perspectives then make a
decision based on my own personal beliefs and philosophies. The point,
again, of the Blind Driver Challenge is not to build a car for the
blind. That is the superficial layer. The point is to show the world
that we are capable of anything. Unfortunately, society needs a big
to-do to believe in our potential. The focus is that we have abilities
and we are here to make a stamp on the world. This challenge is part of
the bigger issue. Society thinks we are limited, so we build a car the
blind can drive independently. Now can you say we are limited?
Everything the Federation does is to make the bigger picture come to the
forefront. It is not about isolated projects. Everything is connected.
The problems we face on a daily basis stem from societies ignorance and
refusal to accept us as equals. My Chapter has 40 members, yet only 5
to 6 of us ever do anything. Many of us are trying to educate and reach
out to the world, but it is difficult when there are so few of us
willing to do the job.
Do not doubt that the Federation is pouring large sums of money and
effort into silly projects and not into other areas. What can we do,
though, when groups like the National Law Council do not take our
threats serious, and continue to treat us as inferior and not equals?
We keep fighting, yet they refuse to concede. What about the millions
of people (including us blind) who keep insisting that Braille is
outdated? And what about those who are against sleep shade training
even though it is a proven method? The Federation is doing what we can
given society's perceptions. If we want change we all have to do our
part and stop complaining. I see to many people who expect the
Federation to change everything, but they do not want to do anything
themselves, or worse, they believe we do indeed have limitations. If we
can't get on board with the program, how can we expect others too?
FYI- I am not directing this at anyone as an individual. This is just
how I feel.
Bridgit
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of stylist-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 9:49 AM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 13
Send stylist mailing list submissions to
stylist at nfbnet.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of stylist digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. From Shelley Metrolink708: Engineer Hunting (Shelley J. Alongi)
2. Cars, Photography and Priorities (Joe Orozco)
3. Re: Cars, Photography and Priorities (Jacobson, Shawn D)
4. Re: Blindness and Photography (loristay)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 22:27:02 -0700
From: "Shelley J. Alongi" <qobells at roadrunner.com>
To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
Subject: [stylist] From Shelley Metrolink708: Engineer Hunting
Message-ID: <00a201cb3915$d592df60$0200000a at DDF55J31>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Of engineers and switch keys.
http://www.storymania.com/cgibin/sm2/smreadtitle.cgi?action=display&file
=newtitles/AlongiSJ-Metrolink708EngineerHunter.htm
Shelley J. Alongi?
Independent Consultant with The Pampered Chef?
Consultant#628861
Home Office: (714)869-3207
Why You Should Start Your Own business with the Pampered Chef:
630-261-3537
**
NFBWD "Slate and Style" editor?
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
**railroading, planes, romance,?
click on
http://www.storymania.com/cgibin/sm2/smshowauthorbox.cgi?page=&author=Al
ongiSJ&alpha=A
updated July 14, 2010
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:17:33 -0400
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [stylist] Cars, Photography and Priorities
Message-ID: <537758F7575F40B6844DBBD347C67951 at Rufus>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Dear Bridgit and all,
I am one of the people against using resources for cars for the blind
and am
generally uninformed and therefore skeptical about photography by the
blind.
I've already laid out my reasons for the former, but generally speaking,
I
think those of us who are hesitant to embrace hard core projects like
the
cars for the blind do it out of a sense of frustration with the status
quo.
Here, in our current reality, there are blind parents who's children are
taken away for no other reason than they are blind. There is a
persistent
unemployment rate among the blind that has not wavered significantly
since
the organization began its work over 60 years ago. There are students
who
must still fight to ensure that universities do not adopt textbooks they
cannot access. Yes, we should think forward to try to craft a better
existence for ourselves, but what do we do about the here and now, where
people are still struggling to be accepted? It seems to me that to
place
our trust in technology is an endless cycle of catching up. Our
notetakers
are a prime indication of how the blind are always ten steps behind.
The
NFB is primarily a volunteer-driven operation, and it is also an
operation
fueled by donations. Both resources are limited, and so then the
question
becomes: Do we detract from our primary purpose to place our hopes on a
distant future, or do we dedicate our strength to helping people today,
right now? I do not put cars for the blind and blind photography on the
same level. It seems to me that blind people will either choose to snap
pictures, or they will not. Nothing is being detracted from the upward
mobility of the blind population as a whole. It is not even a question
of
whether cars for the blind are a good idea. It is more of a decision of
whether the NFB is the right vehicle to make it happen.
Just my thoughts,
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing?
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org?
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:56 PM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: [stylist] Blindness and Photography
Dear List,
I saw a story on the Today Show a couple of years ago about a blind
photographer. He was totally blind, but was a professional
photographer. He was hired (by the sighted and blind) to work all kinds
of events including weddings. In the story, he had been hired by a
sighted couple to work their wedding.
Society (including us who are blind) do not always look outside our
perceptions. If we can't do it, then we think no one can do it. My
brain is not wired to think like a scientist, but that does not mean
others do not have the capacity to think as a scientist. People think
so many things are visual, and therefore not doable and enjoyable by the
blind. Initially Apple refused to make the I-phone accessible because,
according to them, it was a, "fundamentally visually-oriented product,"
implying that those with blindness would not enjoy it. Well, how many
of us have enjoyed our I-phones? If everyone thought visually-oriented
items and things were not possible for the blind, the NFB would not
exist.
It has been the mission of the NFB to break barriers and prove that the
sky is the limit for the blind too. That is what the Blind Driver
Challenge is about. It is not just about the blind being able to drive.
It reaches farther than that. In a nutshell, if we can make a car
accessible for the blind to independently drive, then we can make
anything accessible. The Challenge was issued to force us to think
outside the box; to change our perceptions and our realities.
As individuals, we have unique personalities, and we hold beliefs and
enjoy interest. We are not all alike, and we do not always share the
same ideas and opinions. Yet we (the blind) must accept that perception
is not knowledge. If we can drive a car then we can be guide dog
instructors, musicians, writers and even photographers. The world only
changes when we step out of our comfort zones and attempt the
(perceived) impossible.
Independence is more than learning alternative skills, and it is more
than being gainfully employed. Independence is a mindset. If we
believe in limitations then we do not embrace true independence. If we
(the blind) are so willing to accept the concept of limitations, then
how can we expect the rest of society to view us as competent, capable
people. Disability is also a state of mind. Many have dreamed and saw
that dream come to fruition because they worked hard and were willing to
think beyond the perception.
We must be ourselves, and we do not have to pursue things just because
we are trying to prove a point, but we should also not stifle those who
truly want to pursue certain avenues. Again, just because I don't
understand or enjoy some things, does not mean others feel the opposite.
My long ass point here is that we must look beyond perceptions,
including our own, in order for their to be progress, and not just for
those of us who are blind, but for the world in general.
Bridgit Pollpeter
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of stylist-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 12:00 PM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 10
Send stylist mailing list submissions to
stylist at nfbnet.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
stylist-request at nfbnet.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
stylist-owner at nfbnet.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of stylist digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Blindness and photography (loristay)
2. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
3. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
4. Photography and Sighted Assistance (Joe Orozco)
5. Re: Blindness and photography (Judith Bron)
6. Re: Blindness and photography (Judith Bron)
7. Re: Blindness and photography (Priscilla McKinley)
8. Re: Blindness and photography (Robert Leslie Newman)
9. Re: Photography and Sighted Assistance (Robert Leslie Newman)
10. Re: Blindness and photography (BDM)
11. Chris Kuhl's July 4 Piece (Chelsea Cook)
12. National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights of Blind
Students (Freeh, Jessica)
13. Re: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9 (Bridgit Pollpeter)
14. Re: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9 (Donna Hill)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 13:03:28 -0400
From: loristay <loristay at aol.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <EC34B5E1.1C9A.4BD1.8A87.38FB61C4F79C at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
What makes you think sighted people don't often ask for assistance from
others, whether sighted or blind? ?No one is completely independent.
?That's the way of the world.
Lori
On Aug 8, 2010, at 11:38:31 PM, "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 8, 2010 11:38:31 PM EDT
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Dear all,
I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
product? This can't possibly be something one can independently measure
without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
has been bounced about quite a bit already.
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing?
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 13:17:01 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <4C60380D.8000609 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Joe,
If photos are to be used solely by the blind/visually impaired?
photographer -- those of us who have some usable vision and simply want?
to see things in what is often a better format than reality, because we?
can stare at it for a long time and /or blow it up and change the?
contrast -- then, no sighted help is needed to judge the quality of the
photo. Sighted help, I believe is useful in learning to aim and operate?
the camera to begin with, and in the cases where a blind person wants to
share the photos with others. As Peter points out, he had sighted?
assistance in checking photos prior to posting them on the division?
website. With the low cost of taking digital photos and the fact that?
you can e-mail them to your relatives, you can either count on them to?
weed out the duds -- and sighted people have more duds than good ones --
or have a trusted sighted friend review them prior to using them. I?
certainly don't suggest that anyone start sending out photos to?
publishers as the art work of a blind person, for instance, without?
having plenty of sighted opinions.
Two final points ... There's nothing wrong with wanting to see things or
acknowledging that visual imagery is hugely important in the sighted?
world. There's also nothing wrong in "needing" sighted assistance.?
Sometimes, I think we forget that people in general seek, value and?
indeed need the opinions of others, be they sighted or blind.
Donna
Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4
Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org
On 8/8/2010 11:38 PM, Joe Orozco wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
> but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
> product? This can't possibly be something one can independently
measure
> without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
> counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
> want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
> genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
> enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
> has been bounced about quite a bit already.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
>
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/
>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40epi
x.net
>
>
>
>
> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
> Database version: 6.15600
> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>
>?
E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 13:19:27 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <4C60389F.6040100 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Brad, well put and many excellent points.
Donna
Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4
Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org
On 8/9/2010 12:55 PM, BDM wrote:
> Since you asked about opinions Robert :). In response to someones?
> recent post. I too am not a nay sayer, optimistically an optimist :),?
> and also an encourager and not complainer by nature. So the following
> comment is meant to be taken in that light. I don't quite understand?
> the point of it being a mockery as a blind photographer, professional?
> or just someone clicking pics for a visual journal of their own or?
> loved one's lives. I agree with the breaking news of fried potatoes?
> thing, that's just folks exposing a lack of mature insight, or being?
> able to actually think things passed the shallow threshold of being?
> amazed we breathe on our own. But I'm not getting the mockery thing or
> how could taking pics as a blind person really make us happy or be?
> enjoyable. I think it is a matter of the perspective of the reasons?
> "why" we do what we do. If I can take a picture and regardless if I'm?
> blind or not, it makes one say, "What a cool shot that is, I've been?
> to that place?" Or "That is just a cool sunset shot", and they enjoy?
> it, isn't that what it is about? I write songs and perform them and
> yes I do like the process, I enjoy it for what it is, but what makes?
> me write is to try to evoke some emotion in a listener, take them on?
> a mini-emotional trip. I know there are people who sing better, play?
> better, write better, entertain better, just like they might center?
> an object in a pic or what not better but that's OK with me. My drive
> as a writer is to let others enjoy or feel. They show their?
> appreciation and I enjoy that in return. It isn't about my playing,?
> writing or singing, its what it evokes from others that matters to me?
> and drives me to continue. My wife is no photographer she basically?
> puts whatever she's taking a picture of in the center of the screen?
> and, bam, clicks it and its done. Yet she got really good composition?
> comments from a professional photographer on one of her pics. She?
> doesn't even know what that is.
> And I don't wish to beat this example to the ground as I'm sure we've?
> all heard it a thousand times if even once, but it is relevant . The
> deaf musician who plays xylophone or whatever it is, in an orchestra.?
> She in no way has the same enjoyment perspective as we do, but she?
> enjoys it in her own way that matters to her and she's living the?
> dream she wants regardless. Isn't that what it is all about? Probably?
> more applicable are blind web designers, beats me how they do it but?
> they are out there, I can't do it, but that isn't my dream either. If?
> we wish to be seen as just people minus a label, we need to be secure
> in ourselves enough to allow us to be who we are as well. There is?
> much more to the picture than pressing a button, there's the people?
> you get to meet while taking it, there is the vacation you are on, the
> triple story house of cards that is about to blow over if a flea jumps
> on it before you can snap its proof of existence... whatever. People?
> want to do things because of the feeling it gives them, how are we to?
> question the origin of that feeling in whatever they decide to use as
> a vehicle. *smile*.
>
> Brad
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 13:20:40 -0400
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [stylist] Photography and Sighted Assistance
Message-ID: <A1D030516FCF4978973BD2A986A112B2 at Rufus>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Lori,
You misunderstand my point. I am not one of those hard core blind
people
who are opposed to sighted assistance by any means. My point is that
there
are a plethora of jobs where people can fulfill a job without the need
for
sighted people to double check the results. This is not to say that I
do
not have my supervisor eyeball my outbound grant proposals before they
are
submitted. This does not mean that Peter Donahue does not have someone
sighted double check his web content before it goes live, but in both
examples, we are fully capable of assessing the work along the way so
that
we can set our own standards for what is working and what is not. I
agree
that there are partially sighted people who can enlarge the images to
make
their own evaluations, but then this becomes something of a dancing
target,
because what is sufficient vision and what is the proper magnification
tool?
I'm talking about people who cannot see at all or people who cannot see
well
enough to determine for themselves what is poor, what is better, and
what is
great. I would personally hate to always have to rely on what other
people
claim, because beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. This should
give
me a sufficient self of fulfillment, but I guess I'm too much of a
control
freak and would want to be able to independently gauge for myself that
this
photo was great and that photo was whack. Know what I mean? But, as I
clearly pointed out, I've never given the issue much thought, so I'm
willing
to learn.
Joe
?Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all.?--Sam Ewing?
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org?
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of loristay
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:03 PM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
What makes you think sighted people don't often ask for?
assistance from others, whether sighted or blind? ?No one is?
completely independent. ?That's the way of the world.
Lori
On Aug 8, 2010, at 11:38:31 PM, "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 8, 2010 11:38:31 PM EDT
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Dear all,
I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already?
been raised,
but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
product? This can't possibly be something one can independently measure
without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity,?
wouldn't a person
want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see?
that the topic
has been bounced about quite a bit already.
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up?
their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing?
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 13:59:27 -0400
From: Judith Bron <jbron at optonline.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <000301cb37ec$9c1766e0$3302a8c0 at dell5150>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=original
Some have a difficult time believing that a blind person can identify a?
goal, do what they need to reach it and bbe successful at it. Many of
these?
people feel better if we keep their roles as pitying folks standing on
the?
sidelines and cheering those who make our daily existance possible.
They?
forget that blind and otherwise handicapped people are first and
foremost?
people. As people we have the right to make our own dreams come true.
As?
for those other folks, who cares what they think? Judith
----- Original Message -----?
From: "loristay" <loristay at aol.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Amen, Pete.
Lori
On Aug 7, 2010, at 11:02:27 PM, "Peter Donahue"
<pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>?
wrote:
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 7, 2010 11:02:27 PM EDT
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Hello Elizabeth and everyone,
This reminds me of the reaction I got from some blind individuals I knew
in Massachusetts when discussing the possibility of blind persons
becoming
guide dog instructors. These same people often criticized me for working
as
a street musician rather than "being more gainfully employed." It was
their
attitude, their unwillingness to explore possibilities, and being
unsupportive of my dreams and life goals that put myself and a few
others on
the streets to begin with.
Not all of us are cut out to be writers or photographers but for God
sakes if a blind person chooses to become a guide dog trainer, a
photographer, a writer, or whatever let's support them and quit trying
to
steal their dreams! I sent a message similar to this one to the NABS
List
earlier this past week concerning a discussion of blind drivers. We're
federationists and our imaginative spirit and can-do attitude needs to
shine
through at all times.
Peter Donahue
----- Original Message -----?
From: "Elizabeth Sammons" <antigone at columbus.rr.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Hi, Robert and all others.
Yes, I'm in complete agreement that this is an interesting discussion,
and
of course, knowing us as writers and thinkers, the discussion could and
should be 100% civil. (Smile.) I simply find it a mockery, a caper that
either wishes to say "Look at me, I can do this, too," to attract
attention,
or else totally missing the idea of good photography. I know you did not
mean it this way, Robert, and while I agree that listening to a voice, a
bird song, etc., can help one to find the subject, the difference
between
capturing that subject on a picture and making it artistic is the
difference
between saying "Look, I know the alphabet and can write a punctuated
sentence!" and "Look what a fine sentence I just wrote, evoking the mind
and
spirit of my subject." I don't feel that people who are blind should put
themselves out to pursue something for the sake of pursuit rather than
to do
a good job any more than as I quoted "Beethoven's Nightmare" the deaf
group, they could call themselves quote real musicians end quote. For
the
record, I think they take themselves with a lot of irony, which makes
the
band at least marginally acceptable in my view.
Admittedly, I stand on the more radical edge of this field of thought,
but
I'm putting it out boldly for the sake of discussion. If anybody writes
something that makes me change my mind, I'll smile and let you know,
though
please note, I am not particularly trying to say here please change my
opinion on this matter.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 14:00:59 -0400
From: Judith Bron <jbron at optonline.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <000701cb37ec$d3244450$3302a8c0 at dell5150>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=original
Of course they do. The difference is they think their dependence on
others?
is "normal". If blind people want to snap a picture the action, in
their?
opinion, is abnormal. It's all in the perception of the action. Judith
----- Original Message -----?
From: "loristay" <loristay at aol.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
What makes you think sighted people don't often ask for assistance from?
others, whether sighted or blind? No one is completely independent.
That's?
the way of the world.
Lori
On Aug 8, 2010, at 11:38:31 PM, "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 8, 2010 11:38:31 PM EDT
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Dear all,
I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
product? This can't possibly be something one can independently measure
without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
has been bounced about quite a bit already.
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
_______________________________________________
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http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 13:43:22 -0500
From: Priscilla McKinley <priscilla.mckinley at gmail.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID:
<AANLkTikWurTEUL00+Sz6P8vDkQjQavO8AL1PXkHeu8tE at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I have been reading this discussion with interest. I know blind
photographers and artists, but their work is based on usable vision.
I was totally sighted for half of my life and I have been totally
blind for the second half of my life, and while I will take pictures
for family and friends, I would hire someone to take pictures if I
needed them for a professional writing assignment. After all, I'm a
writer, not a photographer. I would want the photographs to be the
best for a sighted audience, as most of my audience would be sighted.
Sighted people don't want pictures that are fair. They want
brilliance. And I'm not saying that blind people can't take brilliant
photographs, but if a person has no sight, it would be next to
impossible to know the lighting and so on.
This leads to the whole idea of a contest for blind photographers.
Isn't it more likely that someone with usable vision would do a better
job than someone without? After all, lighting is everything for
photography. I have to wonder if Dr. Jernigan would like such a
contest. If you haven't read it, perhaps you should listen to the
dishwashing tape where he explains that we are all equal as blind
people. Would a photography contest illustrate this? Or would it
cause a divide? If there was such a contest, wouldn't it make more
sense to put everyone under sleep shades, as Dr. Jernigan insisted
should be done in the traning centers so that we would be equal as
blind individuals?
Just my thoughts,
Priscilla
On 8/9/10, Judith Bron <jbron at optonline.net> wrote:
> Of course they do. The difference is they think their dependence on
others
> is "normal". If blind people want to snap a picture the action, in
their
> opinion, is abnormal. It's all in the perception of the action.
Judith
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "loristay" <loristay at aol.com>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
>
>
> What makes you think sighted people don't often ask for assistance
from
> others, whether sighted or blind? No one is completely independent.
That's
> the way of the world.
> Lori
> On Aug 8, 2010, at 11:38:31 PM, "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
> Date: August 8, 2010 11:38:31 PM EDT
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Dear all,
>
> I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
> but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
> product? This can't possibly be something one can independently
measure
> without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
> counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
> want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
> genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
> enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
> has been bounced about quite a bit already.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 13:53:45 -0500
From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <8C99E3E5EB974B02A6D84E409103A1E3 at RobertLesliePC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Brad, well written! what you wrote, was in general what I was meaning of
personal choice, doing it for me and not really caring how someone else
thought about it. and as I say, I'm mature enough, comfortable in my
blindness, that I don't need to prove anything to anyone.?
Robert Leslie Newman
President NFB Writers' division?
Writers' Division Website-
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
Personal Website-?
http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of BDM
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 11:55 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Since you asked about opinions Robert :). In response to someones recent
post. I too am not a nay sayer, optimistically an optimist :), and also
an
encourager and not complainer by nature. So the following comment is
meant
to be taken in that light. I don't quite understand the point of it
being a
mockery as a blind photographer, professional or just someone clicking
pics
for a visual journal of their own or loved one's lives. I agree with the
breaking news of fried potatoes thing, that's just folks exposing a lack
of
mature insight, or being able to actually think things passed the
shallow
threshold of being amazed we breathe on our own. But I'm not getting the
mockery thing or how could taking pics as a blind person really make us
happy or be enjoyable. I think it is a matter of the perspective of the
reasons "why" we do what we do. If I can take a picture and regardless
if
I'm blind or not, it makes one say, "What a cool shot that is, I've been
to
that place?" Or "That is just a cool sunset shot", and they enjoy it,
isn't
that what it is about? I write songs and perform them and yes I do like
the
process, I enjoy it for what it is, but what makes me write is to try
to
evoke some emotion in a listener, take them on a mini-emotional trip. I
know
there are people who sing better, play better, write better, entertain
better, just like they might center an object in a pic or what not
better
but that's OK with me. My drive as a writer is to let others enjoy or
feel.
They show their appreciation and I enjoy that in return. It isn't about
my
playing, writing or singing, its what it evokes from others that matters
to
me and drives me to continue. My wife is no photographer she basically
puts
whatever she's taking a picture of in the center of the screen and,
bam,
clicks it and its done. Yet she got really good composition comments
from a
professional photographer on one of her pics. She doesn't even know what
that is.
And I don't wish to beat this example to the ground as I'm sure we've
all
heard it a thousand times if even once, but it is relevant .?
The deaf musician who plays xylophone or whatever it is, in an
orchestra.
She in no way has the same enjoyment perspective as we do, but she
enjoys it
in her own way that matters to her and she's living the dream she wants
regardless. Isn't that what it is all about??
Probably more applicable are blind web designers, beats me how they do
it
but they are out there, I can't do it, but that isn't my dream either.
If we
wish to be seen as just people minus a label, we need to be secure in
ourselves enough to allow us to be who we are as well. There is much
more
to the picture than pressing a button, there's the people you get to
meet
while taking it, there is the vacation you are on, the triple story
house of
cards that is about to blow over if a flea jumps on it before you can
snap
its proof of existence... whatever. People want to do things because of
the
feeling it gives them, how are we to question the origin of that
feeling in
whatever they decide to use as a vehicle. *smile*.
Brad
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------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 13:58:32 -0500
From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Photography and Sighted Assistance
Message-ID: <67CA3F62CA6D47938988C8A9AFBDE534 at RobertLesliePC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Joe, After I take a batch of pictures, I always get my wife or a friend
to
check out what've got. I bet I delete eight picks for everyone that I
keep.
(I now have an IPhone and need to figure out how to get the pics off of
it.
Just haven't taken the time to work on it.)
Robert Leslie Newman
President NFB Writers' division?
Writers' Division Website-
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
Personal Website-?
http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Joe Orozco
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 12:21 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: [stylist] Photography and Sighted Assistance
Lori,
You misunderstand my point. I am not one of those hard core blind
people
who are opposed to sighted assistance by any means. My point is that
there
are a plethora of jobs where people can fulfill a job without the need
for
sighted people to double check the results. This is not to say that I
do
not have my supervisor eyeball my outbound grant proposals before they
are
submitted. This does not mean that Peter Donahue does not have someone
sighted double check his web content before it goes live, but in both
examples, we are fully capable of assessing the work along the way so
that
we can set our own standards for what is working and what is not. I
agree
that there are partially sighted people who can enlarge the images to
make
their own evaluations, but then this becomes something of a dancing
target,
because what is sufficient vision and what is the proper magnification
tool?
I'm talking about people who cannot see at all or people who cannot see
well
enough to determine for themselves what is poor, what is better, and
what is
great. I would personally hate to always have to rely on what other
people
claim, because beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. This should
give
me a sufficient self of fulfillment, but I guess I'm too much of a
control
freak and would want to be able to independently gauge for myself that
this
photo was great and that photo was whack. Know what I mean? But, as I
clearly pointed out, I've never given the issue much thought, so I'm
willing
to learn.
Joe
?Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all.?--Sam Ewing?
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of loristay
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:03 PM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
What makes you think sighted people don't often ask for assistance from
others, whether sighted or blind? ?No one is completely independent.
?That's
the way of the world.
Lori
On Aug 8, 2010, at 11:38:31 PM, "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 8, 2010 11:38:31 PM EDT
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org> Dear all,
I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
product? This can't possibly be something one can independently measure
without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
has been bounced about quite a bit already.
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing?
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 16:01:50 -0500
From: BDM <lists at braddunsemusic.com>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20100809155108.02a56188 at www.braddunsemusic.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Yep I agree. :) I am fortunate that pre-blindness and post, I've?
always been concerned with my own thoughts and provings rather than
others.
Brad
At 01:53 PM 8/9/2010, you wrote:
>Brad, well written! what you wrote, was in general what I was meaning
of
>personal choice, doing it for me and not really caring how someone else
>thought about it. and as I say, I'm mature enough, comfortable in my
>blindness, that I don't need to prove anything to anyone.
>
>
>
>Robert Leslie Newman
>President NFB Writers' division
>Writers' Division Website-
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>Personal Website-
>http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of BDM
>Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 11:55 AM
>To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
>
>Since you asked about opinions Robert :). In response to someones
recent
>post. I too am not a nay sayer, optimistically an optimist :), and also
an
>encourager and not complainer by nature. So the following comment is
meant
>to be taken in that light. I don't quite understand the point of it
being a
>mockery as a blind photographer, professional or just someone clicking
pics
>for a visual journal of their own or loved one's lives. I agree with
the
>breaking news of fried potatoes thing, that's just folks exposing a
lack of
>mature insight, or being able to actually think things passed the
shallow
>threshold of being amazed we breathe on our own. But I'm not getting
the
>mockery thing or how could taking pics as a blind person really make us
>happy or be enjoyable. I think it is a matter of the perspective of the
>reasons "why" we do what we do. If I can take a picture and regardless
if
>I'm blind or not, it makes one say, "What a cool shot that is, I've
been to
>that place?" Or "That is just a cool sunset shot", and they enjoy it,
isn't
>that what it is about? I write songs and perform them and yes I do
like the
>process, I enjoy it for what it is, but what makes me write is to try
to
>evoke some emotion in a listener, take them on a mini-emotional trip. I
know
>there are people who sing better, play better, write better, entertain
>better, just like they might center an object in a pic or what not
better
>but that's OK with me. My drive as a writer is to let others enjoy or
feel.
>They show their appreciation and I enjoy that in return. It isn't about
my
>playing, writing or singing, its what it evokes from others that
matters to
>me and drives me to continue. My wife is no photographer she basically
puts
>whatever she's taking a picture of in the center of the screen and,
bam,
>clicks it and its done. Yet she got really good composition comments
from a
>professional photographer on one of her pics. She doesn't even know
what
>that is.
>And I don't wish to beat this example to the ground as I'm sure we've
all
>heard it a thousand times if even once, but it is relevant .
>The deaf musician who plays xylophone or whatever it is, in an
orchestra.
>She in no way has the same enjoyment perspective as we do, but she
enjoys it
>in her own way that matters to her and she's living the dream she wants
>regardless. Isn't that what it is all about?
>Probably more applicable are blind web designers, beats me how they do
it
>but they are out there, I can't do it, but that isn't my dream either.
If we
>wish to be seen as just people minus a label, we need to be secure in
>ourselves enough to allow us to be who we are as well. There is much
more
>to the picture than pressing a button, there's the people you get to
meet
>while taking it, there is the vacation you are on, the triple story
house of
>cards that is about to blow over if a flea jumps on it before you can
snap
>its proof of existence... whatever. People want to do things because of
the
>feeling it gives them, how are we to question the origin of that
feeling in
>whatever they decide to use as a vehicle. *smile*.
>
>Brad
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Writers Division web site:
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
>stylist mailing list
>stylist at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>stylist:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40cox
.net
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Writers Division web site:
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
>stylist mailing list
>stylist at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
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nsemusic.com
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus?
>signature database 5353 (20100809) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com
Brad Dunse
Success in life is a result of good judgment,
good judgment is a result of experience,
experience is a result of bad judgment
E Mail: brad at braddunsemusic.com
Website: http://www.braddunsemusic.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1464323555
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/braddunse
MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/braddunse
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 22:26:39 -0400
From: Chelsea Cook <astrochem119 at gmail.com>
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: [stylist] Chris Kuhl's July 4 Piece
Message-ID:
<AANLkTimwbo5qAKCDxmYqS_gVhDswqhpQmLy4OBGyOX5g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Chris,
I read your piece and absolutely loved the interplay of the different
holidays. The dialogue and characters were clever and interesting.
I've just been away at Orientation and vacation, so did not have much
time to post. But don't worry: I enjoyed your writing very much!
Please keep sharing!
Very busy preparing for college,
Chelsea Cook
--?
"I ask you to look both ways. For the road to a knowledge of the
stars leads through the atom; and important knowledge of the atom has
been reached through
the stars."
Sir Arthur Eddington, British astrophysicist (1882-1944), Stars and
Atoms (1928), Lecture 1
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 02:42:21 -0500
From: "Freeh, Jessica" <JFreeh at nfb.org> (by way of David Andrews
<dandrews at visi.com>)
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
Subject: [stylist] National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights of
Blind Students
Message-ID: <auto-000166292429 at mailfront1.g2host.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT:
Chris Danielsen
Director of Public Relations
National Federation of the Blind
(410) 659-9314, extension 2330
(410) 262-1281 (Cell)
<mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org>cdanielsen at nfb.org
National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights of Blind Students
Calls for Equal Access to Information and Technology in America?s
Universities
Baltimore, Maryland (August 9, 2010): The?
National Federation of the Blind (NFB) responded?
today to recent attacks on the right of blind?
students to have equal access to technologies?
used by America?s universities and to the?
textbooks and course materials offered by?
institutions of higher learning. The NFB and the?
United States Department of Justice, Civil Rights?
Division, have come under attack in recent days?
for reaching settlements with universities?
requiring that the universities refrain from?
purchasing any e-book technology that is not fully accessible to the
blind.
Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National?
Federation of the Blind, said: ?Blind students?
must have access to the same textbooks and course?
materials and the same technology to read them as?
all other students. This is not only a matter of?
fairness to blind students but a requirement of?
federal law. For this reason, we applaud the?
United States Department of Justice, acting at?
our request and pursuant to its mandate to?
enforce this nation?s disability rights laws, for?
reaching landmark settlements with colleges and?
universities ensuring that e-book technologies?
deployed by these institutions will be accessible?
to all their students. With the announcement of?
a new accessible Amazon Kindle, the recent?
introduction of the Apple iPad, and the promise?
of future accessible e-book products?many of?
which would not have been made accessible without?
our advocacy efforts?colleges and universities?
will find it increasingly easy to procure e-book?
technology that benefits everyone. These?
settlements benefit not only blind students, who?
will now have access to the same books at the?
same time and at the same price as their sighted?
peers, but also institutions of higher learning,?
which will no longer incur the administrative?
burden of producing or procuring accessible books?
through separate and inferior methods. To the?
extent that inaccessible e-book technology?
remains a barrier to the equal education of the?
blind, however, the National Federation of the?
Blind will continue to fight for the educational?
and legal rights of blind students, and we will?
not hesitate to call upon the Department of?
Justice and other government authorities to?
assist us in doing so when necessary.?
###
About the National Federation of the Blind
With more than 50,000 members, the National?
Federation of the Blind is the largest and most?
influential membership organization of blind?
people in the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns =?
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"?
/>United States. The NFB improves blind people?s?
lives through advocacy, education, research,?
technology, and programs encouraging independence?
and self-confidence. It is the leading force in?
the blindness field today and the voice of the?
nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened?
the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan?
Institute, the first research and training center?
in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:43:15 -0500
From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP24E319553B98F66A4DEBD3C4950 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jewel,
Most digital cameras have the facial recognization feature. I have an
Easy Share by Kodak and it does the facial or object identification.
I have a tip for taking pictures. I stand as close to what ever I am
trying to take a picture of possible then back up. It usually helps so
that I actually take a shot of what I want. Digital cameras are a
little different because they do not use a view finder, but have a
screen. I suggest taking time to get use to how the camera feels when
snapping a picture.
Anyway, I do not believe any cameras will just recognize a face just
because the camera is pointing in a direction. There still has to be a
focus, but this feature helps to stabilize the image.
Good luck finding a camera. There are so many!
Bridgit
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of stylist-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 12:00 PM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9
Send stylist mailing list submissions to
stylist at nfbnet.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
stylist-request at nfbnet.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
stylist-owner at nfbnet.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of stylist digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Blindness and photography (Jewel S.)
2. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
3. Re: Writers Division member featured by Stanford University,
Center... (KajunCutie926 at aol.com)
4. Re: Blindness and photography (Robert Leslie Newman)
5. Re: Blindness and photography (Elizabeth Sammons)
6. Re: Blindness and photography (Joe Orozco)
7. Re: Blindness and photography (Jewel S.)
8. Re: Blindness and photography (Robert Leslie Newman)
9. Blindness, Photography, and Division Web Site (Peter Donahue)
10. Re: Blindness and photography (BDM)
11. Re: Blindness and photography (loristay)
12. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 12:59:51 -0400
From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID:
<AANLkTikMxTLAm0THw3xcuz385+6YB2Mr84ZccfORZ0ek at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Does anyone know the Blind Pohotographer Blog? It can be viewed at:
http://blog.blindphotographers.org/
I check this blog from time to time, because it is an interesting one.
Also, my boyfriend and I want to go over to a nearby photographer's
shop soon, to do a full review for my blog (Treasure Chest for the
Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com) about a camera that has
a "smile detector." The camera has a special feature that when a
person smiles, it takes the picture while focused ont that person. It
can be turned off, too, if you want to take a picture of someone who
isn't smiling (like a baby who is crying but is hilarious in his
temper). There is a facial identification focus as well that will let
you know when you are centered on a face. I have not tried thie camera
out, and don't remember its model name, but am hoping to get over
there to do a review on it soon. Anyone know about these features?
It's a digital camera, by the way.
My two cents on the topic,
Jewel
On 8/8/10, BDM <lists at braddunsemusic.com> wrote:
> There is nothing like following your dream, no matter what anyone
> else thinks. I am also a performing songwriter and part of PAD, I
> think Robert was asking earlier. I do a loose blog on my site
>
> http://www.braddunsemusic.com/blog.html
>
> basically a live spew of mostly unedited thoughts which recently I've
> done a couple thoughts on following dreams. One of which is in a
> monthly story behind the song which I confess why the gal in the song
> has two different colored shoes on, while some might assume its due
> to my vision loss, it was not as you'd read :). Some blind folks are
> so over sensitive to being pegged as stereotypes they miss what they
> are meant to do, or at least infringe on what others are meant to do.
> Foul ball. Just do what is in your heart and go for your dream no
> matter what anyone else thinks. Those that criticize with such
> claims, unknowingly expose their own insecurities, which may or may
> not have to do with their blindness. There are four bases and one
> chance to stand over the plate.
>
> Brad
>
> At 10:20 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
>>Peter,
>>Bless you. This is right on and well-stated. I too worked as a
>>streetsinger. I sang in Philadelphia's Suburban Station and at
>>Penn's Landing year-round for over 13 years. There were some people
>>who objected to that. Although there is a rich history of excellent
>>blind street musicians, apparently some blind people feel that it is
>>only OK to be a troubadour if you're sighted. Incidentally, my work
>>led to many non street jobs. In schools I actually got to talk about
>>blindness issues and help bridge the gap of misunderstanding and
>>fear in the sighted world. I also produced 3 albums, wrote a book
>>and was chosen as the subject of an independent film.
>>
>>I hope you are still pursuing your dream. Nobody blind or sighted
>>should be stepping on other people's dreams. When it happens within
>>the blindness community, it always reminds me how true it is that we
>>are just like everyone else -- in this case, that's a shame.
>>Donna
>>
>>Read Donna's articles on
>>Suite 101:
>>www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
>>American Chronicle:
>>www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>>
>>Connect with Donna on
>>Twitter:
>>www.twitter.com/dewhill
>>LinkedIn:
>>www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
>>FaceBook:
>>www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>>
>>Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
>>cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>>Apple I-Tunes
>>phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244
374
>>
>>Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
>>Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
>>Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
>>www.padnfb.org
>>
>>
>>On 8/7/2010 11:02 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
>>>Hello Elizabeth and everyone,
>>>
>>> This reminds me of the reaction I got from some blind
>>> individuals I knew
>>>in Massachusetts when discussing the possibility of blind persons
becoming
>>>guide dog instructors. These same people often criticized me for
working
>>> as
>>>a street musician rather than "being more gainfully employed." It was
>>> their
>>>attitude, their unwillingness to explore possibilities, and being
>>>unsupportive of my dreams and life goals that put myself and a few
others
>>> on
>>>the streets to begin with.
>>>
>>> Not all of us are cut out to be writers or photographers but
for God
>>>sakes if a blind person chooses to become a guide dog trainer, a
>>>photographer, a writer, or whatever let's support them and quit
trying to
>>>steal their dreams! I sent a message similar to this one to the NABS
List
>>>earlier this past week concerning a discussion of blind drivers.
We're
>>>federationists and our imaginative spirit and can-do attitude needs
to
>>> shine
>>>through at all times.
>>>
>>>Peter Donahue
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Elizabeth Sammons"<antigone at columbus.rr.com>
>>>To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:12 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi, Robert and all others.
>>>
>>>Yes, I'm in complete agreement that this is an interesting
discussion, and
>>>of course, knowing us as writers and thinkers, the discussion could
and
>>>should be 100% civil. (Smile.) I simply find it a mockery, a caper
that
>>>either wishes to say "Look at me, I can do this, too," to attract
>>> attention,
>>>or else totally missing the idea of good photography. I know you did
not
>>>mean it this way, Robert, and while I agree that listening to a
voice, a
>>>bird song, etc., can help one to find the subject, the difference
between
>>>capturing that subject on a picture and making it artistic is the
>>> difference
>>>between saying "Look, I know the alphabet and can write a punctuated
>>>sentence!" and "Look what a fine sentence I just wrote, evoking the
mind
>>> and
>>>spirit of my subject." I don't feel that people who are blind should
put
>>>themselves out to pursue something for the sake of pursuit rather
than to
>>> do
>>>a good job any more than as I quoted "Beethoven's Nightmare" the deaf
>>>group, they could call themselves quote real musicians end quote. For
the
>>>record, I think they take themselves with a lot of irony, which makes
the
>>>band at least marginally acceptable in my view.
>>>
>>>Admittedly, I stand on the more radical edge of this field of
thought, but
>>>I'm putting it out boldly for the sake of discussion. If anybody
writes
>>>something that makes me change my mind, I'll smile and let you know,
>>> though
>>>please note, I am not particularly trying to say here please change
my
>>>opinion on this matter.
>>>
>>>
>>>Sincerely,
>>>Elizabeth
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Writers Division web site:
>>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.o
rg/>
>>>
>>>stylist mailing list
>>>stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>stylist:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40
sbcglobal.net
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Writers Division web site:
>>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.o
rg/>
>>>
>>>stylist mailing list
>>>stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for stylist:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
epix.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>_______________________________________________
>>Writers Division web site:
>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>>stylist mailing list
>>stylist at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
>
> Brad Dunse
>
> Music is the only language in which you cannot say a mean or sarcastic
thing
>
> E Mail: brad at braddunsemusic.com
>
> Website: http://www.braddunsemusic.com
>
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1464323555
>
> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/braddunse
>
> MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/braddunse
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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0gmail.com
>
--?
~Jewel
Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 13:09:44 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <4C5EE4D8.3070101 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Shelley,
When I was taking pictures, the light/shadow experience was a huge deal?
for my nature shots especially. Still, I don't think sight is necessary?
in all cases. Glad to hear you include photos. We're not all cut out to?
take them, but it's important to realize the profound impact they can?
have on sighted people. We need every tool we can find.
Donna
Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4
Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org
On 8/7/2010 1:13 AM, Shelley J. Alongi wrote:
> This is very very cool. A lot of times good photographs have to do?
> with the light and its affects on surroundings and if a blind person?
> can get a sense of how light reacts to surroundings and pick up clues?
> I am sure it can be done. I have done many presentations not?
> necerssarily for writings in which photography was a part of the?
> picture. If you read fashion or home decorating magazines at all?
> you'll notice a great emphasis on different kinds of light. It's all?
> very logical and interesting. This works into photographs. I've always
> been one to leave the photographing to others as I have my hands very?
> full at any given moment but as a blind person I've never left it out?
> of my work. It is part of what makes experiences for all kinds of?
> people enjoyable. Go for it!
> Shelley J. Alongi
> Independent Consultant with The Pampered Chef
> Consultant#628861
> Home Office: (714)869-3207
> Why You Should Start Your Own business with the Pampered Chef:?
> 630-261-3537
> **
> NFBWD "Slate and Style" editor
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> **railroading, planes, romance,
> click on?
>
http://www.storymania.com/cgibin/sm2/smshowauthorbox.cgi?page=&author=Al
ongiSJ&alpha=A?
>
> updated July 14, 2010
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Leslie Newman"?
> <newmanrl at cox.net>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 10:24 AM
> Subject: [stylist] Blindness and photography
>
>
>> Hey STYLIST members, here is an interesting site to check out. It's
not
>> about writing, but it deals with an skill that is often associated
with
>> writing (like in the news paper or books, etc.)
>>
>> Blind With Camera School of Photography is a virtual school with
>> step-by-step tutorials for the visually impaired to get started with
>> photography and guidance to sighted photographers for starting?
>> photographic
>> workshops with local visually impaired people.
>>
>>
>>
<http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1103601039185&s=3910&e=001PsgFa0OJYOsU6mli
68as?
>>
>>
FX7oGcOcZRAqA-mEOYBq2vk334oeaLxtCx-GpDgMf2vU3FbXtJyE1cQ4lsJK8cvdmXLbW68n
uq80?
>>
>> INGrImyzskNBaClBHACQhKfKyTWq2GPy>
http://www.blindwithcameraschool.org
>>
>> Robert Leslie Newman
>> President NFB Writers' division
>> Writers' Division Website-
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org?
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>> Personal Website-
>> http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org?
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/qobells%40roadr
unner.com?
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org?
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for?
> stylist:
>
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x.net?
>
>
>
>
>
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 13:26:48 EDT
From: KajunCutie926 at aol.com
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [stylist] Writers Division member featured by Stanford
University, Center...
Message-ID: <b01ca.77a1cfe5.399042d8 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Indeed.. huge congrats Donna!!
In a message dated 8/8/2010 11:20:07 A.M. Central Daylight Time,?
lists at braddunsemusic.com writes:
Indeed congrats Donna!
Brad
At 11:07 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
>Donna
>
>this is great news! You are indeed deserving of being honored for the
>widespread coverage that you do with your writings. We within the
Writers'
>Division, as being authors who happen to be blind, and no matter if it
is
>blindness issues we concentrate on, or not, we all are working to
change
>what it means to be blind, and though recognition for our work is
seldom
>given, it is a great feel when it happens.
>
>So keep up the good work!
>
>(All this goes for our sighted members, too; you are one of us.)
>
>
>Robert Leslie Newman
>President NFB Writers' division
>Writers' Division Website-
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>Personal Website-
>http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
>Behalf Of Donna Hill
>Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 8:34 AM
>To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>Subject: [stylist] Writers Division member featured by Stanford?
University,
>Center for Social Innovation
>
>Hi Friends, <http://www.stanford.edu/>
>I have received a great honor which has led to publicity for the NFB
and?
for
>blindness issues. I was chosen as the 2nd "Third Sector Grit"
>profile for Stanford University. "Donna Hill: A Profile in Third
Sector
>Grit" (July 23, 2010), by John Brothers has just been published by?
Stanford
>University, <http://www.stanford.edu/> Graduate School of Business,
><http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/> Center for Social Innovation
>at: <http://csi.gsb.stanford.edu>
>
>http://www.ssireview.org/opinion/entry/donna_hill_a_profile_in_third_se
ctor
_
>grit/
>
>The project profiles people who are making a difference in nonprofits
>
>Enjoy and please pass along,
>Donna Hill
>
>
>--
>Read Donna's articles on
>Suite 101:
>www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
>American Chronicle:
>www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>
>Connect with Donna on
>Twitter:
>www.twitter.com/dewhill
>LinkedIn:
>www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
>FaceBook:
>www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>
>Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
>cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>Apple I-Tunes
>phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=2592443
74
>
>Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project Donna is Head of Media?
Relations
>for the nonprofit Performing Arts Division of the National Federation
of?
the
>Blind:
>www.padnfb.org
>
>
>
>
>
>E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514) Database version:
>6.15510 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>_______________________________________________
>Writers Division web site:
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
>stylist mailing list
>stylist at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>stylist:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40cox
.net
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Writers Division web site:
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
>stylist mailing list
>stylist at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
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nsem
usic.com
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus?
>signature database 5349 (20100807) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com
Brad Dunse
This world is but a canvas to our imaginations
E Mail: brad at braddunsemusic.com
Website: http://www.braddunsemusic.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1464323555
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/braddunse
MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/braddunse
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for?
stylist:
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0aol
.com
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 19:47:37 -0500
From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <45E1939B69E346EC9B423371B9E8AE9A at RobertLesliePC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Elizabeth
Hmm, on the specific issue of some blind folks getting into --- showing
off,
like doing something just to prove that they can do something --- well,
personally, I'm past that stage of -- call that sort of thing as
"acceptance," by the blind person themselves or the blind guy's attempt
to
get the sighted world to accept him/her.?
So as for my part of this discussion, it is more along the line of
knowing
that some of us blind folks can take photos and get some that are
acceptable
and may get some that would be considered as being very good, too. (Not
all
sighted folks can take a good photo, either.)?
thus, in general, my initial response to your email was a --- matter of
seeking out where you were coming from and equally , as I would do with
any
questionable comment by whomever about the abilities of a blind person,
I
wanted to counter what you were seeming to be saying; as it were, you
took
the glass as being half empty and I was saying it was half full.
Robert Leslie Newman
President NFB Writers' division?
Writers' Division Website-
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
Personal Website-?
http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Elizabeth Sammons
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:12 AM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Hi, Robert and all others.
Yes, I'm in complete agreement that this is an interesting discussion,
and
of course, knowing us as writers and thinkers, the discussion could and
should be 100% civil. (Smile.) I simply find it a mockery, a caper that
either wishes to say "Look at me, I can do this, too," to attract
attention,
or else totally missing the idea of good photography. I know you did not
mean it this way, Robert, and while I agree that listening to a voice, a
bird song, etc., can help one to find the subject, the difference
between
capturing that subject on a picture and making it artistic is the
difference
between saying "Look, I know the alphabet and can write a punctuated
sentence!" and "Look what a fine sentence I just wrote, evoking the mind
and
spirit of my subject." I don't feel that people who are blind should put
themselves out to pursue something for the sake of pursuit rather than
to do
a good job any more than as I quoted "Beethoven's Nightmare" the deaf
group,
they could call themselves quote real musicians end quote. For the
record, I
think they take themselves with a lot of irony, which makes the band at
least marginally acceptable in my view.?
Admittedly, I stand on the more radical edge of this field of thought,
but
I'm putting it out boldly for the sake of discussion. If anybody writes
something that makes me change my mind, I'll smile and let you know,
though
please note, I am not particularly trying to say here please change my
opinion on this matter.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
stylist mailing list
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
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net
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 21:17:27 -0400
From: "Elizabeth Sammons" <antigone at columbus.rr.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <77.D9.24046.B275F5C4 at hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Colleagues,
Well, I am glad that the subject of blindness and photography, or as I
might
call it blindness versus photography, is getting a lot of reaction.
Folks
here do not know me, but perhaps you will trust me that in general, I am
very far from being a ney sayer both in my personal life and in my
career.
As I dig into my own thoughts, here's what is eating at me when I
consider
the subject of blind camera people and photographs. Photography, I think
you
will agree with me, is by its very essence a matter of vision and view.
Blindness by its essence is the matter of having lost or never having
had
that very vision or view. This is why it still seems to me a mockery to
try
to combine the two, water and oil. And even if the effort is made, I
don't
get the point or the happiness of doing something along this line.?
I am appreciative of some of the reasoning raised such as wanting to
leave a
visual record to one's children, wanting to see if one can simply
capture a
subject in the frame, etc.. But even in the best scenario, say, the
subject
is captured successfully, I am reminded of a news subject that I saw
while
living in Russia about a young man who was blind and who fried his own
potatoes for dinner. So what? So does everybody else. So what's the
newsworthiness in that? Similarly I would say that there is nothing
praiseworthy in someone who is blind taking a picture beyond perhaps
some
desire to try a new thing, since it is a thing that anybody else can do.
Note, I am not talking here about the artistry of the photo... that is a
completely different matter which I addressed earlier.
Anyhow, here's to the diversity of opinion such groups support, and
thanks
for making me think on this issue a bit more deeply than prior to this
discussion.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 23:38:31 -0400
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <6C607955DD654D6B9411E5FE8087A065 at Rufus>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear all,
I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
product? This can't possibly be something one can independently measure
without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
has been bounced about quite a bit already.
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing?
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 03:29:05 -0400
From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID:
<AANLkTi=P0mp2vYOfs=Xxjv9zJwBus50FqeXzLyzerUvp at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
The way I see it, many blind people are not totally blind. Quite a few
have some sort of usable vision. My boyfriend is one such example, as
am I. He has enough vision that he can use a CCTV to read things. We
found that using the handheld CCTV (Amigo), he could freeze the screen
over an object to take a "picture" of it, then magnify it and put it
on the TV if necessary to be able to see it. I think having a digital
camera and a large screen TV would be really great for him, because
then he would be able to see things that are quite small normally, but
he could blow it up to a size wher he could see it (for example, a
pretty bouquet of crepe myrtle flowers or the painting on a decorative
plate.
I have heard of some blind photographers doing so for the simple
reason of magnifying the picture to be able to see the faces of family
and friends. I know my boyfriend would be able to do this. I really
would give near anything to be able to do the same. Sadly, my vision
is not good enough for that.
At this point, my vision is almost exclusively light and colour
perception. However, as I can see colour, a high contrast image is
still something of a beauty to me. As an example, there is a blind
painter in Texas who did a painting called Eyes. It is purely black
and white, and very high contrast. It is very lovely to my eyes, if
magnifyed gratly.
For myself, I would love to be able to take pictures to share my life
with ffamily that I do not see often. Most of my family is in
Lousiana, and others are in Arkansas, South Dakota, Texas, and
overseas. I do not get to see them often, and they have not seen any
pictures of me in several years. I would love to be able to take
pictures of myself and things in my life (like my cat when she is in
one of her silly poses, or my boyfriend asleep with his dog laying
across his chest with a cute look on his face) to send to my family
and friends. Just because I am blind doesn't mean I don't understand
the importance of sharing images from my life with my sighted family
and friends. I know pictures are important to sighted people, having
been one myself for 23 years, and I wish to share images from my own
life with others.
My two cents,
Jewel
On 8/8/10, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
> but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
> product? This can't possibly be something one can independently
measure
> without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
> counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
> want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
> genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
> enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
> has been bounced about quite a bit already.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%4
0gmail.com
>
--?
~Jewel
Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 09:59:14 -0500
From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <1D0F972DFCFE4015BC1024CD7DE6151B at RobertLesliePC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Elizabeth?
This discussion, if anything has allowed me/us to get to know you
better;
your take on blindness, your perception on societal reactions/acceptance
to
us, and more. And, I know that on these very complex facets of your ---
or
for any of us who have been revealing our personal philosophies, we have
been privileged to share only the proverbial "tip of the iceberg."?
And so after reading your latest message, what I'm feeling/thinking this
morning is that we are talking along the same lines of thought and, at
least
I am feeling we are --- let's see --- that more than anything, we are
sharing what could be seen as a "personal choice thing." that
bottom-line,
we are in agreement that a blind guy can do most things (those things
that
we have an interest in and some talent for) which can include
photography.
Secondly, that yes, we jointly agree that with the very nature of
"photography" being a visual art/thing, that there are issues a blind
guy
would need to address to make it work.?
And so, I appreciate that you've been upfront with sharing your take and
choice.?
(Anyone else? How do you see this?)
Robert Leslie Newman
President NFB Writers' division?
Writers' Division Website-
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
Personal Website-?
http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Elizabeth Sammons
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 8:17 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Colleagues,
Well, I am glad that the subject of blindness and photography, or as I
might
call it blindness versus photography, is getting a lot of reaction.
Folks
here do not know me, but perhaps you will trust me that in general, I am
very far from being a ney sayer both in my personal life and in my
career.
As I dig into my own thoughts, here's what is eating at me when I
consider
the subject of blind camera people and photographs. Photography, I think
you
will agree with me, is by its very essence a matter of vision and view.
Blindness by its essence is the matter of having lost or never having
had
that very vision or view. This is why it still seems to me a mockery to
try
to combine the two, water and oil. And even if the effort is made, I
don't
get the point or the happiness of doing something along this line.?
I am appreciative of some of the reasoning raised such as wanting to
leave a
visual record to one's children, wanting to see if one can simply
capture a
subject in the frame, etc.. But even in the best scenario, say, the
subject
is captured successfully, I am reminded of a news subject that I saw
while
living in Russia about a young man who was blind and who fried his own
potatoes for dinner. So what? So does everybody else. So what's the
newsworthiness in that? Similarly I would say that there is nothing
praiseworthy in someone who is blind taking a picture beyond perhaps
some
desire to try a new thing, since it is a thing that anybody else can do.
Note, I am not talking here about the artistry of the photo... that is a
completely different matter which I addressed earlier.
Anyhow, here's to the diversity of opinion such groups support, and
thanks
for making me think on this issue a bit more deeply than prior to this
discussion.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth
_______________________________________________
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http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 10:45:59 -0500
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [stylist] Blindness, Photography, and Division Web Site
Message-ID: <00e701cb37d9$f7cc8dc0$4001a8c0 at yourfsyly0jtwn>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Good morning everyone,
With all of the discussion of the blind and photography our division
Web?
site is a wonderful place to showcase the talents of budding blind?
photographers. If you take pictures that would complement your story and
send it along with a discription of the photo these would be a great way
to?
spruce up our division Web site. One of our affiliates had some pictures
taken by several of its blind members on its Web site. I had a sighted?
person check all site photos before the pages in question went live. All
pictures including those taken by the blind people were excelent. Hence
I?
want to suggest that if anyone has taken pictures that would complement
an?
article or a story these would be great to post on the division Web
site.
The only thing I ask is that you include a description of what's
being?
shown in the photograph along with the photo file attachment. It is this
discription that it used as the alt text to describe the images. Happy?
picture taking.
Peter Donahyue
Webmaster, National Federation of the Blind Writers' Division
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 11:55:05 -0500
From: BDM <lists at braddunsemusic.com>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20100809105401.02a2d7c0 at www.braddunsemusic.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Since you asked about opinions Robert :). In response to someones?
recent post. I too am not a nay sayer, optimistically an optimist :),?
and also an encourager and not complainer by nature. So the?
following comment is meant to be taken in that light. I don't quite?
understand the point of it being a mockery as a blind photographer,?
professional or just someone clicking pics for a visual journal of?
their own or loved one's lives. I agree with the breaking news of?
fried potatoes thing, that's just folks exposing a lack of mature?
insight, or being able to actually think things passed the shallow?
threshold of being amazed we breathe on our own. But I'm not getting?
the mockery thing or how could taking pics as a blind person really?
make us happy or be enjoyable. I think it is a matter of the?
perspective of the reasons "why" we do what we do. If I can take a?
picture and regardless if I'm blind or not, it makes one say, "What a?
cool shot that is, I've been to that place?" Or "That is just a cool?
sunset shot", and they enjoy it, isn't that what it is about? I?
write songs and perform them and yes I do like the process, I enjoy?
it for what it is, but what makes me write is to try to evoke some?
emotion in a listener, take them on a mini-emotional trip. I know?
there are people who sing better, play better, write?
better, entertain better, just like they might center an object?
in a pic or what not better but that's OK with me. My drive as a?
writer is to let others enjoy or feel. They show their appreciation?
and I enjoy that in return. It isn't about my playing, writing or?
singing, its what it evokes from others that matters to me and drives?
me to continue. My wife is no photographer she basically puts?
whatever she's taking a picture of in the center of the screen and,?
bam, clicks it and its done. Yet she got really good composition?
comments from a professional photographer on one of her pics. She?
doesn't even know what that is.
And I don't wish to beat this example to the ground as I'm sure we've?
all heard it a thousand times if even once, but it is relevant .?
The deaf musician who plays xylophone or whatever it is, in an?
orchestra. She in no way has the same enjoyment perspective as we do,?
but she enjoys it in her own way that matters to her and she's living?
the dream she wants regardless. Isn't that what it is all about??
Probably more applicable are blind web designers, beats me how they?
do it but they are out there, I can't do it, but that isn't my dream?
either. If we wish to be seen as just people minus a label, we need?
to be secure in ourselves enough to allow us to be who we are as?
well. There is much more to the picture than pressing a button,?
there's the people you get to meet while taking it, there is the?
vacation you are on, the triple story house of cards that is about to?
blow over if a flea jumps on it before you can snap its proof of?
existence... whatever. People want to do things because of the?
feeling it gives them, how are we to question the origin of that?
feeling in whatever they decide to use as a vehicle. *smile*.
Brad
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 12:56:23 -0400
From: loristay <loristay at aol.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <CA2D3D2A.2B78.4F05.B4A5.B3A82B993C39 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Amen, Pete.
Lori
On Aug 7, 2010, at 11:02:27 PM, "Peter Donahue"
<pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 7, 2010 11:02:27 PM EDT
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Hello Elizabeth and everyone,
This reminds me of the reaction I got from some blind individuals I
knew?
in Massachusetts when discussing the possibility of blind persons
becoming?
guide dog instructors. These same people often criticized me for working
as?
a street musician rather than "being more gainfully employed." It was
their?
attitude, their unwillingness to explore possibilities, and being?
unsupportive of my dreams and life goals that put myself and a few
others on?
the streets to begin with.
Not all of us are cut out to be writers or photographers but for God?
sakes if a blind person chooses to become a guide dog trainer, a?
photographer, a writer, or whatever let's support them and quit trying
to?
steal their dreams! I sent a message similar to this one to the NABS
List?
earlier this past week concerning a discussion of blind drivers. We're?
federationists and our imaginative spirit and can-do attitude needs to
shine?
through at all times.
Peter Donahue
----- Original Message -----?
From: "Elizabeth Sammons" <antigone at columbus.rr.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Hi, Robert and all others.
Yes, I'm in complete agreement that this is an interesting discussion,
and
of course, knowing us as writers and thinkers, the discussion could and
should be 100% civil. (Smile.) I simply find it a mockery, a caper that
either wishes to say "Look at me, I can do this, too," to attract
attention,
or else totally missing the idea of good photography. I know you did not
mean it this way, Robert, and while I agree that listening to a voice, a
bird song, etc., can help one to find the subject, the difference
between
capturing that subject on a picture and making it artistic is the
difference
between saying "Look, I know the alphabet and can write a punctuated
sentence!" and "Look what a fine sentence I just wrote, evoking the mind
and
spirit of my subject." I don't feel that people who are blind should put
themselves out to pursue something for the sake of pursuit rather than
to do
a good job any more than as I quoted "Beethoven's Nightmare" the deaf
group, they could call themselves quote real musicians end quote. For
the
record, I think they take themselves with a lot of irony, which makes
the
band at least marginally acceptable in my view.
Admittedly, I stand on the more radical edge of this field of thought,
but
I'm putting it out boldly for the sake of discussion. If anybody writes
something that makes me change my mind, I'll smile and let you know,
though
please note, I am not particularly trying to say here please change my
opinion on this matter.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth
_______________________________________________
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http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 12:57:27 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <4C603377.2020506 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Right on Jewel. Donna
Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4
Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org
On 8/9/2010 3:29 AM, Jewel S. wrote:
> The way I see it, many blind people are not totally blind. Quite a few
> have some sort of usable vision. My boyfriend is one such example, as
> am I. He has enough vision that he can use a CCTV to read things. We
> found that using the handheld CCTV (Amigo), he could freeze the screen
> over an object to take a "picture" of it, then magnify it and put it
> on the TV if necessary to be able to see it. I think having a digital
> camera and a large screen TV would be really great for him, because
> then he would be able to see things that are quite small normally, but
> he could blow it up to a size wher he could see it (for example, a
> pretty bouquet of crepe myrtle flowers or the painting on a decorative
> plate.
>
> I have heard of some blind photographers doing so for the simple
> reason of magnifying the picture to be able to see the faces of family
> and friends. I know my boyfriend would be able to do this. I really
> would give near anything to be able to do the same. Sadly, my vision
> is not good enough for that.
>
> At this point, my vision is almost exclusively light and colour
> perception. However, as I can see colour, a high contrast image is
> still something of a beauty to me. As an example, there is a blind
> painter in Texas who did a painting called Eyes. It is purely black
> and white, and very high contrast. It is very lovely to my eyes, if
> magnifyed gratly.
>
> For myself, I would love to be able to take pictures to share my life
> with ffamily that I do not see often. Most of my family is in
> Lousiana, and others are in Arkansas, South Dakota, Texas, and
> overseas. I do not get to see them often, and they have not seen any
> pictures of me in several years. I would love to be able to take
> pictures of myself and things in my life (like my cat when she is in
> one of her silly poses, or my boyfriend asleep with his dog laying
> across his chest with a cute look on his face) to send to my family
> and friends. Just because I am blind doesn't mean I don't understand
> the importance of sharing images from my life with my sighted family
> and friends. I know pictures are important to sighted people, having
> been one myself for 23 years, and I wish to share images from my own
> life with others.
>
> My two cents,
> Jewel
>
> On 8/8/10, Joe Orozco<jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
>?
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
>> but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of
their
>> product? This can't possibly be something one can independently
measure
>> without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
>> counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
>> want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
>> genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
>> enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
>> has been bounced about quite a bit already.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>>
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/
>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
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0gmail.com
>>
>>?
>
>?
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End of stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9
**************************************
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:50:55 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9
Message-ID: <4C61836F.20605 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi Bridget and all,
My husband has a digital camera with a view finder, so they're not all?
screens, though his is a bit more expensive.
Donna
Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4
Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org
On 8/10/2010 12:43 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote:
> Jewel,
>
> Most digital cameras have the facial recognization feature. I have an
> Easy Share by Kodak and it does the facial or object identification.
>
> I have a tip for taking pictures. I stand as close to what ever I am
> trying to take a picture of possible then back up. It usually helps
so
> that I actually take a shot of what I want. Digital cameras are a
> little different because they do not use a view finder, but have a
> screen. I suggest taking time to get use to how the camera feels when
> snapping a picture.
>
> Anyway, I do not believe any cameras will just recognize a face just
> because the camera is pointing in a direction. There still has to be
a
> focus, but this feature helps to stabilize the image.
>
> Good luck finding a camera. There are so many!
>
> Bridgit
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
> Behalf Of stylist-request at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 12:00 PM
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9
>
> Send stylist mailing list submissions to
> stylist at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> You can reach the person managing the list at
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of stylist digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Blindness and photography (Jewel S.)
> 2. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
> 3. Re: Writers Division member featured by Stanford
University,
> Center... (KajunCutie926 at aol.com)
> 4. Re: Blindness and photography (Robert Leslie Newman)
> 5. Re: Blindness and photography (Elizabeth Sammons)
> 6. Re: Blindness and photography (Joe Orozco)
> 7. Re: Blindness and photography (Jewel S.)
> 8. Re: Blindness and photography (Robert Leslie Newman)
> 9. Blindness, Photography, and Division Web Site (Peter Donahue)
> 10. Re: Blindness and photography (BDM)
> 11. Re: Blindness and photography (loristay)
> 12. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 12:59:51 -0400
> From: "Jewel S."<herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTikMxTLAm0THw3xcuz385+6YB2Mr84ZccfORZ0ek at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Does anyone know the Blind Pohotographer Blog? It can be viewed at:
> http://blog.blindphotographers.org/
>
> I check this blog from time to time, because it is an interesting one.
>
> Also, my boyfriend and I want to go over to a nearby photographer's
> shop soon, to do a full review for my blog (Treasure Chest for the
> Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com) about a camera that has
> a "smile detector." The camera has a special feature that when a
> person smiles, it takes the picture while focused ont that person. It
> can be turned off, too, if you want to take a picture of someone who
> isn't smiling (like a baby who is crying but is hilarious in his
> temper). There is a facial identification focus as well that will let
> you know when you are centered on a face. I have not tried thie camera
> out, and don't remember its model name, but am hoping to get over
> there to do a review on it soon. Anyone know about these features?
> It's a digital camera, by the way.
>
> My two cents on the topic,
> Jewel
>
> On 8/8/10, BDM<lists at braddunsemusic.com> wrote:
>?
>> There is nothing like following your dream, no matter what anyone
>> else thinks. I am also a performing songwriter and part of PAD, I
>> think Robert was asking earlier. I do a loose blog on my site
>>
>> http://www.braddunsemusic.com/blog.html
>>
>> basically a live spew of mostly unedited thoughts which recently I've
>> done a couple thoughts on following dreams. One of which is in a
>> monthly story behind the song which I confess why the gal in the song
>> has two different colored shoes on, while some might assume its due
>> to my vision loss, it was not as you'd read :). Some blind folks are
>> so over sensitive to being pegged as stereotypes they miss what they
>> are meant to do, or at least infringe on what others are meant to do.
>> Foul ball. Just do what is in your heart and go for your dream no
>> matter what anyone else thinks. Those that criticize with such
>> claims, unknowingly expose their own insecurities, which may or may
>> not have to do with their blindness. There are four bases and one
>> chance to stand over the plate.
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> At 10:20 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
>>?
>>> Peter,
>>> Bless you. This is right on and well-stated. I too worked as a
>>> streetsinger. I sang in Philadelphia's Suburban Station and at
>>> Penn's Landing year-round for over 13 years. There were some people
>>> who objected to that. Although there is a rich history of excellent
>>> blind street musicians, apparently some blind people feel that it is
>>> only OK to be a troubadour if you're sighted. Incidentally, my work
>>> led to many non street jobs. In schools I actually got to talk about
>>> blindness issues and help bridge the gap of misunderstanding and
>>> fear in the sighted world. I also produced 3 albums, wrote a book
>>> and was chosen as the subject of an independent film.
>>>
>>> I hope you are still pursuing your dream. Nobody blind or sighted
>>> should be stepping on other people's dreams. When it happens within
>>> the blindness community, it always reminds me how true it is that we
>>> are just like everyone else -- in this case, that's a shame.
>>> Donna
>>>
>>> Read Donna's articles on
>>> Suite 101:
>>> www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
>>> American Chronicle:
>>> www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>>>
>>> Connect with Donna on
>>> Twitter:
>>> www.twitter.com/dewhill
>>> LinkedIn:
>>> www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
>>> FaceBook:
>>> www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>>>
>>> Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
>>> cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>>> Apple I-Tunes
>>>
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244
>>>?
> 374
>?
>>> Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
>>> Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
>>> Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
>>> www.padnfb.org
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/7/2010 11:02 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
>>>?
>>>> Hello Elizabeth and everyone,
>>>>
>>>> This reminds me of the reaction I got from some blind
>>>> individuals I knew
>>>> in Massachusetts when discussing the possibility of blind persons
>>>>?
> becoming
>?
>>>> guide dog instructors. These same people often criticized me for
>>>>?
> working
>?
>>>> as
>>>> a street musician rather than "being more gainfully employed." It
was
>>>> their
>>>> attitude, their unwillingness to explore possibilities, and being
>>>> unsupportive of my dreams and life goals that put myself and a few
>>>>?
> others
>?
>>>> on
>>>> the streets to begin with.
>>>>
>>>> Not all of us are cut out to be writers or photographers but
>>>>?
> for God
>?
>>>> sakes if a blind person chooses to become a guide dog trainer, a
>>>> photographer, a writer, or whatever let's support them and quit
>>>>?
> trying to
>?
>>>> steal their dreams! I sent a message similar to this one to the
NABS
>>>>?
> List
>?
>>>> earlier this past week concerning a discussion of blind drivers.
>>>>?
> We're
>?
>>>> federationists and our imaginative spirit and can-do attitude needs
>>>>?
> to
>?
>>>> shine
>>>> through at all times.
>>>>
>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Elizabeth Sammons"<antigone at columbus.rr.com>
>>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:12 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi, Robert and all others.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I'm in complete agreement that this is an interesting
>>>>?
> discussion, and
>?
>>>> of course, knowing us as writers and thinkers, the discussion could
>>>>?
> and
>?
>>>> should be 100% civil. (Smile.) I simply find it a mockery, a caper
>>>>?
> that
>?
>>>> either wishes to say "Look at me, I can do this, too," to attract
>>>> attention,
>>>> or else totally missing the idea of good photography. I know you
did
>>>>?
> not
>?
>>>> mean it this way, Robert, and while I agree that listening to a
>>>>?
> voice, a
>?
>>>> bird song, etc., can help one to find the subject, the difference
>>>>?
> between
>?
>>>> capturing that subject on a picture and making it artistic is the
>>>> difference
>>>> between saying "Look, I know the alphabet and can write a
punctuated
>>>> sentence!" and "Look what a fine sentence I just wrote, evoking the
>>>>?
> mind
>?
>>>> and
>>>> spirit of my subject." I don't feel that people who are blind
should
>>>>?
> put
>?
>>>> themselves out to pursue something for the sake of pursuit rather
>>>>?
> than to
>?
>>>> do
>>>> a good job any more than as I quoted "Beethoven's Nightmare" the
deaf
>>>> group, they could call themselves quote real musicians end quote.
For
>>>>?
> the
>?
>>>> record, I think they take themselves with a lot of irony, which
makes
>>>>?
> the
>?
>>>> band at least marginally acceptable in my view.
>>>>
>>>> Admittedly, I stand on the more radical edge of this field of
>>>>?
> thought, but
>?
>>>> I'm putting it out boldly for the sake of discussion. If anybody
>>>>?
> writes
>?
>>>> something that makes me change my mind, I'll smile and let you
know,
>>>> though
>>>> please note, I am not particularly trying to say here please
change
>>>>?
> my
>?
>>>> opinion on this matter.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>>
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.o
>>>>?
> rg/>
>?
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>>>> stylist:
>>>>
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>>>>?
> sbcglobal.net
>?
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>>
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.o
>>>>?
> rg/>
>?
>>>> stylist mailing list
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>>>>?
> epix.net
>?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
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>>>?
>>
>> Brad Dunse
>>
>> Music is the only language in which you cannot say a mean or
sarcastic
>>?
> thing
>?
>> E Mail: brad at braddunsemusic.com
>>
>> Website: http://www.braddunsemusic.com
>>
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1464323555
>>
>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/braddunse
>>
>> MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/braddunse
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:40:05 -0400
From: "Jacobson, Shawn D" <Shawn.D.Jacobson at hud.gov>
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List' <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Cars, Photography and Priorities
Message-ID:
<A1A3EBA504582C449F7E37E5039CCD1710928555CE at EXMAIL03A.exh.prod.hud.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I guess my feeling about the whole blind driving thing is that someone
is going to do it for us whether we think it necessary or not. In this
case, I see the NFB role as making sure that whatever comes out of the
process serves us rather than ruling us. Technology is morally neutral.
It can help us immensely or it can hurt us grievously. Our advocacy
efforts need to be used to make sure it does the former, not the later.
If we get cars for the blind, it might help with some of the other
issues stated below if for no other reason than that cars will humanize
us, in the eyes of the sighted community. This is odd and ironic, but
in our car culture, being a driver is almost necessary to fit in to much
of our society.
Just some thoughts.
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Joe Orozco
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 10:18 AM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: [stylist] Cars, Photography and Priorities
Dear Bridgit and all,
I am one of the people against using resources for cars for the blind
and am
generally uninformed and therefore skeptical about photography by the
blind.
I've already laid out my reasons for the former, but generally speaking,
I
think those of us who are hesitant to embrace hard core projects like
the
cars for the blind do it out of a sense of frustration with the status
quo.
Here, in our current reality, there are blind parents who's children are
taken away for no other reason than they are blind. There is a
persistent
unemployment rate among the blind that has not wavered significantly
since
the organization began its work over 60 years ago. There are students
who
must still fight to ensure that universities do not adopt textbooks they
cannot access. Yes, we should think forward to try to craft a better
existence for ourselves, but what do we do about the here and now, where
people are still struggling to be accepted? It seems to me that to
place
our trust in technology is an endless cycle of catching up. Our
notetakers
are a prime indication of how the blind are always ten steps behind.
The
NFB is primarily a volunteer-driven operation, and it is also an
operation
fueled by donations. Both resources are limited, and so then the
question
becomes: Do we detract from our primary purpose to place our hopes on a
distant future, or do we dedicate our strength to helping people today,
right now? I do not put cars for the blind and blind photography on the
same level. It seems to me that blind people will either choose to snap
pictures, or they will not. Nothing is being detracted from the upward
mobility of the blind population as a whole. It is not even a question
of
whether cars for the blind are a good idea. It is more of a decision of
whether the NFB is the right vehicle to make it happen.
Just my thoughts,
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:56 PM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: [stylist] Blindness and Photography
Dear List,
I saw a story on the Today Show a couple of years ago about a blind
photographer. He was totally blind, but was a professional
photographer. He was hired (by the sighted and blind) to work all kinds
of events including weddings. In the story, he had been hired by a
sighted couple to work their wedding.
Society (including us who are blind) do not always look outside our
perceptions. If we can't do it, then we think no one can do it. My
brain is not wired to think like a scientist, but that does not mean
others do not have the capacity to think as a scientist. People think
so many things are visual, and therefore not doable and enjoyable by the
blind. Initially Apple refused to make the I-phone accessible because,
according to them, it was a, "fundamentally visually-oriented product,"
implying that those with blindness would not enjoy it. Well, how many
of us have enjoyed our I-phones? If everyone thought visually-oriented
items and things were not possible for the blind, the NFB would not
exist.
It has been the mission of the NFB to break barriers and prove that the
sky is the limit for the blind too. That is what the Blind Driver
Challenge is about. It is not just about the blind being able to drive.
It reaches farther than that. In a nutshell, if we can make a car
accessible for the blind to independently drive, then we can make
anything accessible. The Challenge was issued to force us to think
outside the box; to change our perceptions and our realities.
As individuals, we have unique personalities, and we hold beliefs and
enjoy interest. We are not all alike, and we do not always share the
same ideas and opinions. Yet we (the blind) must accept that perception
is not knowledge. If we can drive a car then we can be guide dog
instructors, musicians, writers and even photographers. The world only
changes when we step out of our comfort zones and attempt the
(perceived) impossible.
Independence is more than learning alternative skills, and it is more
than being gainfully employed. Independence is a mindset. If we
believe in limitations then we do not embrace true independence. If we
(the blind) are so willing to accept the concept of limitations, then
how can we expect the rest of society to view us as competent, capable
people. Disability is also a state of mind. Many have dreamed and saw
that dream come to fruition because they worked hard and were willing to
think beyond the perception.
We must be ourselves, and we do not have to pursue things just because
we are trying to prove a point, but we should also not stifle those who
truly want to pursue certain avenues. Again, just because I don't
understand or enjoy some things, does not mean others feel the opposite.
My long ass point here is that we must look beyond perceptions,
including our own, in order for their to be progress, and not just for
those of us who are blind, but for the world in general.
Bridgit Pollpeter
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of stylist-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 12:00 PM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 10
Send stylist mailing list submissions to
stylist at nfbnet.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of stylist digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Blindness and photography (loristay)
2. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
3. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
4. Photography and Sighted Assistance (Joe Orozco)
5. Re: Blindness and photography (Judith Bron)
6. Re: Blindness and photography (Judith Bron)
7. Re: Blindness and photography (Priscilla McKinley)
8. Re: Blindness and photography (Robert Leslie Newman)
9. Re: Photography and Sighted Assistance (Robert Leslie Newman)
10. Re: Blindness and photography (BDM)
11. Chris Kuhl's July 4 Piece (Chelsea Cook)
12. National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights of Blind
Students (Freeh, Jessica)
13. Re: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9 (Bridgit Pollpeter)
14. Re: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9 (Donna Hill)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 13:03:28 -0400
From: loristay <loristay at aol.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <EC34B5E1.1C9A.4BD1.8A87.38FB61C4F79C at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
What makes you think sighted people don't often ask for assistance from
others, whether sighted or blind? ?No one is completely independent.
?That's the way of the world.
Lori
On Aug 8, 2010, at 11:38:31 PM, "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 8, 2010 11:38:31 PM EDT
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Dear all,
I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
product? This can't possibly be something one can independently measure
without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
has been bounced about quite a bit already.
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing?
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
stylist mailing list
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com
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 13:17:01 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <4C60380D.8000609 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Joe,
If photos are to be used solely by the blind/visually impaired
photographer -- those of us who have some usable vision and simply want
to see things in what is often a better format than reality, because we
can stare at it for a long time and /or blow it up and change the
contrast -- then, no sighted help is needed to judge the quality of the
photo. Sighted help, I believe is useful in learning to aim and operate
the camera to begin with, and in the cases where a blind person wants to
share the photos with others. As Peter points out, he had sighted
assistance in checking photos prior to posting them on the division
website. With the low cost of taking digital photos and the fact that
you can e-mail them to your relatives, you can either count on them to
weed out the duds -- and sighted people have more duds than good ones --
or have a trusted sighted friend review them prior to using them. I
certainly don't suggest that anyone start sending out photos to
publishers as the art work of a blind person, for instance, without
having plenty of sighted opinions.
Two final points ... There's nothing wrong with wanting to see things or
acknowledging that visual imagery is hugely important in the sighted
world. There's also nothing wrong in "needing" sighted assistance.
Sometimes, I think we forget that people in general seek, value and
indeed need the opinions of others, be they sighted or blind.
Donna
Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4
Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org
On 8/8/2010 11:38 PM, Joe Orozco wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
> but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
> product? This can't possibly be something one can independently
measure
> without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
> counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
> want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
> genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
> enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
> has been bounced about quite a bit already.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
>
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/
>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40epi
x.net
>
>
>
>
> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
> Database version: 6.15600
> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 13:19:27 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <4C60389F.6040100 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Brad, well put and many excellent points.
Donna
Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4
Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org
On 8/9/2010 12:55 PM, BDM wrote:
> Since you asked about opinions Robert :). In response to someones
> recent post. I too am not a nay sayer, optimistically an optimist :),
> and also an encourager and not complainer by nature. So the following
> comment is meant to be taken in that light. I don't quite understand
> the point of it being a mockery as a blind photographer, professional
> or just someone clicking pics for a visual journal of their own or
> loved one's lives. I agree with the breaking news of fried potatoes
> thing, that's just folks exposing a lack of mature insight, or being
> able to actually think things passed the shallow threshold of being
> amazed we breathe on our own. But I'm not getting the mockery thing or
> how could taking pics as a blind person really make us happy or be
> enjoyable. I think it is a matter of the perspective of the reasons
> "why" we do what we do. If I can take a picture and regardless if I'm
> blind or not, it makes one say, "What a cool shot that is, I've been
> to that place?" Or "That is just a cool sunset shot", and they enjoy
> it, isn't that what it is about? I write songs and perform them and
> yes I do like the process, I enjoy it for what it is, but what makes
> me write is to try to evoke some emotion in a listener, take them on
> a mini-emotional trip. I know there are people who sing better, play
> better, write better, entertain better, just like they might center
> an object in a pic or what not better but that's OK with me. My drive
> as a writer is to let others enjoy or feel. They show their
> appreciation and I enjoy that in return. It isn't about my playing,
> writing or singing, its what it evokes from others that matters to me
> and drives me to continue. My wife is no photographer she basically
> puts whatever she's taking a picture of in the center of the screen
> and, bam, clicks it and its done. Yet she got really good composition
> comments from a professional photographer on one of her pics. She
> doesn't even know what that is.
> And I don't wish to beat this example to the ground as I'm sure we've
> all heard it a thousand times if even once, but it is relevant . The
> deaf musician who plays xylophone or whatever it is, in an orchestra.
> She in no way has the same enjoyment perspective as we do, but she
> enjoys it in her own way that matters to her and she's living the
> dream she wants regardless. Isn't that what it is all about? Probably
> more applicable are blind web designers, beats me how they do it but
> they are out there, I can't do it, but that isn't my dream either. If
> we wish to be seen as just people minus a label, we need to be secure
> in ourselves enough to allow us to be who we are as well. There is
> much more to the picture than pressing a button, there's the people
> you get to meet while taking it, there is the vacation you are on, the
> triple story house of cards that is about to blow over if a flea jumps
> on it before you can snap its proof of existence... whatever. People
> want to do things because of the feeling it gives them, how are we to
> question the origin of that feeling in whatever they decide to use as
> a vehicle. *smile*.
>
> Brad
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
>
>
>
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 13:20:40 -0400
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [stylist] Photography and Sighted Assistance
Message-ID: <A1D030516FCF4978973BD2A986A112B2 at Rufus>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Lori,
You misunderstand my point. I am not one of those hard core blind
people
who are opposed to sighted assistance by any means. My point is that
there
are a plethora of jobs where people can fulfill a job without the need
for
sighted people to double check the results. This is not to say that I
do
not have my supervisor eyeball my outbound grant proposals before they
are
submitted. This does not mean that Peter Donahue does not have someone
sighted double check his web content before it goes live, but in both
examples, we are fully capable of assessing the work along the way so
that
we can set our own standards for what is working and what is not. I
agree
that there are partially sighted people who can enlarge the images to
make
their own evaluations, but then this becomes something of a dancing
target,
because what is sufficient vision and what is the proper magnification
tool?
I'm talking about people who cannot see at all or people who cannot see
well
enough to determine for themselves what is poor, what is better, and
what is
great. I would personally hate to always have to rely on what other
people
claim, because beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. This should
give
me a sufficient self of fulfillment, but I guess I'm too much of a
control
freak and would want to be able to independently gauge for myself that
this
photo was great and that photo was whack. Know what I mean? But, as I
clearly pointed out, I've never given the issue much thought, so I'm
willing
to learn.
Joe
?Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all.?--Sam Ewing
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of loristay
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:03 PM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
What makes you think sighted people don't often ask for
assistance from others, whether sighted or blind? ?No one is
completely independent. ?That's the way of the world.
Lori
On Aug 8, 2010, at 11:38:31 PM, "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 8, 2010 11:38:31 PM EDT
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Dear all,
I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already
been raised,
but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
product? This can't possibly be something one can independently measure
without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity,
wouldn't a person
want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see
that the topic
has been bounced about quite a bit already.
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up
their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing?
_______________________________________________
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<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 13:59:27 -0400
From: Judith Bron <jbron at optonline.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <000301cb37ec$9c1766e0$3302a8c0 at dell5150>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=original
Some have a difficult time believing that a blind person can identify a
goal, do what they need to reach it and bbe successful at it. Many of
these
people feel better if we keep their roles as pitying folks standing on
the
sidelines and cheering those who make our daily existance possible.
They
forget that blind and otherwise handicapped people are first and
foremost
people. As people we have the right to make our own dreams come true.
As
for those other folks, who cares what they think? Judith
----- Original Message -----
From: "loristay" <loristay at aol.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Amen, Pete.
Lori
On Aug 7, 2010, at 11:02:27 PM, "Peter Donahue"
<pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 7, 2010 11:02:27 PM EDT
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Hello Elizabeth and everyone,
This reminds me of the reaction I got from some blind individuals I knew
in Massachusetts when discussing the possibility of blind persons
becoming
guide dog instructors. These same people often criticized me for working
as
a street musician rather than "being more gainfully employed." It was
their
attitude, their unwillingness to explore possibilities, and being
unsupportive of my dreams and life goals that put myself and a few
others on
the streets to begin with.
Not all of us are cut out to be writers or photographers but for God
sakes if a blind person chooses to become a guide dog trainer, a
photographer, a writer, or whatever let's support them and quit trying
to
steal their dreams! I sent a message similar to this one to the NABS
List
earlier this past week concerning a discussion of blind drivers. We're
federationists and our imaginative spirit and can-do attitude needs to
shine
through at all times.
Peter Donahue
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth Sammons" <antigone at columbus.rr.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Hi, Robert and all others.
Yes, I'm in complete agreement that this is an interesting discussion,
and
of course, knowing us as writers and thinkers, the discussion could and
should be 100% civil. (Smile.) I simply find it a mockery, a caper that
either wishes to say "Look at me, I can do this, too," to attract
attention,
or else totally missing the idea of good photography. I know you did not
mean it this way, Robert, and while I agree that listening to a voice, a
bird song, etc., can help one to find the subject, the difference
between
capturing that subject on a picture and making it artistic is the
difference
between saying "Look, I know the alphabet and can write a punctuated
sentence!" and "Look what a fine sentence I just wrote, evoking the mind
and
spirit of my subject." I don't feel that people who are blind should put
themselves out to pursue something for the sake of pursuit rather than
to do
a good job any more than as I quoted "Beethoven's Nightmare" the deaf
group, they could call themselves quote real musicians end quote. For
the
record, I think they take themselves with a lot of irony, which makes
the
band at least marginally acceptable in my view.
Admittedly, I stand on the more radical edge of this field of thought,
but
I'm putting it out boldly for the sake of discussion. If anybody writes
something that makes me change my mind, I'll smile and let you know,
though
please note, I am not particularly trying to say here please change my
opinion on this matter.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 14:00:59 -0400
From: Judith Bron <jbron at optonline.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <000701cb37ec$d3244450$3302a8c0 at dell5150>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=original
Of course they do. The difference is they think their dependence on
others
is "normal". If blind people want to snap a picture the action, in
their
opinion, is abnormal. It's all in the perception of the action. Judith
----- Original Message -----
From: "loristay" <loristay at aol.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
What makes you think sighted people don't often ask for assistance from
others, whether sighted or blind? No one is completely independent.
That's
the way of the world.
Lori
On Aug 8, 2010, at 11:38:31 PM, "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 8, 2010 11:38:31 PM EDT
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Dear all,
I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
product? This can't possibly be something one can independently measure
without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
has been bounced about quite a bit already.
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 13:43:22 -0500
From: Priscilla McKinley <priscilla.mckinley at gmail.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID:
<AANLkTikWurTEUL00+Sz6P8vDkQjQavO8AL1PXkHeu8tE at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I have been reading this discussion with interest. I know blind
photographers and artists, but their work is based on usable vision.
I was totally sighted for half of my life and I have been totally
blind for the second half of my life, and while I will take pictures
for family and friends, I would hire someone to take pictures if I
needed them for a professional writing assignment. After all, I'm a
writer, not a photographer. I would want the photographs to be the
best for a sighted audience, as most of my audience would be sighted.
Sighted people don't want pictures that are fair. They want
brilliance. And I'm not saying that blind people can't take brilliant
photographs, but if a person has no sight, it would be next to
impossible to know the lighting and so on.
This leads to the whole idea of a contest for blind photographers.
Isn't it more likely that someone with usable vision would do a better
job than someone without? After all, lighting is everything for
photography. I have to wonder if Dr. Jernigan would like such a
contest. If you haven't read it, perhaps you should listen to the
dishwashing tape where he explains that we are all equal as blind
people. Would a photography contest illustrate this? Or would it
cause a divide? If there was such a contest, wouldn't it make more
sense to put everyone under sleep shades, as Dr. Jernigan insisted
should be done in the traning centers so that we would be equal as
blind individuals?
Just my thoughts,
Priscilla
On 8/9/10, Judith Bron <jbron at optonline.net> wrote:
> Of course they do. The difference is they think their dependence on
others
> is "normal". If blind people want to snap a picture the action, in
their
> opinion, is abnormal. It's all in the perception of the action.
Judith
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "loristay" <loristay at aol.com>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
>
>
> What makes you think sighted people don't often ask for assistance
from
> others, whether sighted or blind? No one is completely independent.
That's
> the way of the world.
> Lori
> On Aug 8, 2010, at 11:38:31 PM, "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
> Date: August 8, 2010 11:38:31 PM EDT
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Dear all,
>
> I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
> but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
> product? This can't possibly be something one can independently
measure
> without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
> counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
> want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
> genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
> enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
> has been bounced about quite a bit already.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
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>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 13:53:45 -0500
From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <8C99E3E5EB974B02A6D84E409103A1E3 at RobertLesliePC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Brad, well written! what you wrote, was in general what I was meaning of
personal choice, doing it for me and not really caring how someone else
thought about it. and as I say, I'm mature enough, comfortable in my
blindness, that I don't need to prove anything to anyone.
Robert Leslie Newman
President NFB Writers' division
Writers' Division Website-
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
Personal Website-
http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of BDM
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 11:55 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Since you asked about opinions Robert :). In response to someones recent
post. I too am not a nay sayer, optimistically an optimist :), and also
an
encourager and not complainer by nature. So the following comment is
meant
to be taken in that light. I don't quite understand the point of it
being a
mockery as a blind photographer, professional or just someone clicking
pics
for a visual journal of their own or loved one's lives. I agree with the
breaking news of fried potatoes thing, that's just folks exposing a lack
of
mature insight, or being able to actually think things passed the
shallow
threshold of being amazed we breathe on our own. But I'm not getting the
mockery thing or how could taking pics as a blind person really make us
happy or be enjoyable. I think it is a matter of the perspective of the
reasons "why" we do what we do. If I can take a picture and regardless
if
I'm blind or not, it makes one say, "What a cool shot that is, I've been
to
that place?" Or "That is just a cool sunset shot", and they enjoy it,
isn't
that what it is about? I write songs and perform them and yes I do like
the
process, I enjoy it for what it is, but what makes me write is to try
to
evoke some emotion in a listener, take them on a mini-emotional trip. I
know
there are people who sing better, play better, write better, entertain
better, just like they might center an object in a pic or what not
better
but that's OK with me. My drive as a writer is to let others enjoy or
feel.
They show their appreciation and I enjoy that in return. It isn't about
my
playing, writing or singing, its what it evokes from others that matters
to
me and drives me to continue. My wife is no photographer she basically
puts
whatever she's taking a picture of in the center of the screen and,
bam,
clicks it and its done. Yet she got really good composition comments
from a
professional photographer on one of her pics. She doesn't even know what
that is.
And I don't wish to beat this example to the ground as I'm sure we've
all
heard it a thousand times if even once, but it is relevant .
The deaf musician who plays xylophone or whatever it is, in an
orchestra.
She in no way has the same enjoyment perspective as we do, but she
enjoys it
in her own way that matters to her and she's living the dream she wants
regardless. Isn't that what it is all about?
Probably more applicable are blind web designers, beats me how they do
it
but they are out there, I can't do it, but that isn't my dream either.
If we
wish to be seen as just people minus a label, we need to be secure in
ourselves enough to allow us to be who we are as well. There is much
more
to the picture than pressing a button, there's the people you get to
meet
while taking it, there is the vacation you are on, the triple story
house of
cards that is about to blow over if a flea jumps on it before you can
snap
its proof of existence... whatever. People want to do things because of
the
feeling it gives them, how are we to question the origin of that
feeling in
whatever they decide to use as a vehicle. *smile*.
Brad
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------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 13:58:32 -0500
From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Photography and Sighted Assistance
Message-ID: <67CA3F62CA6D47938988C8A9AFBDE534 at RobertLesliePC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Joe, After I take a batch of pictures, I always get my wife or a friend
to
check out what've got. I bet I delete eight picks for everyone that I
keep.
(I now have an IPhone and need to figure out how to get the pics off of
it.
Just haven't taken the time to work on it.)
Robert Leslie Newman
President NFB Writers' division
Writers' Division Website-
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
Personal Website-
http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Joe Orozco
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 12:21 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: [stylist] Photography and Sighted Assistance
Lori,
You misunderstand my point. I am not one of those hard core blind
people
who are opposed to sighted assistance by any means. My point is that
there
are a plethora of jobs where people can fulfill a job without the need
for
sighted people to double check the results. This is not to say that I
do
not have my supervisor eyeball my outbound grant proposals before they
are
submitted. This does not mean that Peter Donahue does not have someone
sighted double check his web content before it goes live, but in both
examples, we are fully capable of assessing the work along the way so
that
we can set our own standards for what is working and what is not. I
agree
that there are partially sighted people who can enlarge the images to
make
their own evaluations, but then this becomes something of a dancing
target,
because what is sufficient vision and what is the proper magnification
tool?
I'm talking about people who cannot see at all or people who cannot see
well
enough to determine for themselves what is poor, what is better, and
what is
great. I would personally hate to always have to rely on what other
people
claim, because beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. This should
give
me a sufficient self of fulfillment, but I guess I'm too much of a
control
freak and would want to be able to independently gauge for myself that
this
photo was great and that photo was whack. Know what I mean? But, as I
clearly pointed out, I've never given the issue much thought, so I'm
willing
to learn.
Joe
?Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all.?--Sam Ewing
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of loristay
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:03 PM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
What makes you think sighted people don't often ask for assistance from
others, whether sighted or blind? ?No one is completely independent.
?That's
the way of the world.
Lori
On Aug 8, 2010, at 11:38:31 PM, "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 8, 2010 11:38:31 PM EDT
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org> Dear all,
I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
product? This can't possibly be something one can independently measure
without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
has been bounced about quite a bit already.
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing?
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 16:01:50 -0500
From: BDM <lists at braddunsemusic.com>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20100809155108.02a56188 at www.braddunsemusic.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Yep I agree. :) I am fortunate that pre-blindness and post, I've
always been concerned with my own thoughts and provings rather than
others.
Brad
At 01:53 PM 8/9/2010, you wrote:
>Brad, well written! what you wrote, was in general what I was meaning
of
>personal choice, doing it for me and not really caring how someone else
>thought about it. and as I say, I'm mature enough, comfortable in my
>blindness, that I don't need to prove anything to anyone.
>
>
>
>Robert Leslie Newman
>President NFB Writers' division
>Writers' Division Website-
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>Personal Website-
>http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of BDM
>Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 11:55 AM
>To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
>
>Since you asked about opinions Robert :). In response to someones
recent
>post. I too am not a nay sayer, optimistically an optimist :), and also
an
>encourager and not complainer by nature. So the following comment is
meant
>to be taken in that light. I don't quite understand the point of it
being a
>mockery as a blind photographer, professional or just someone clicking
pics
>for a visual journal of their own or loved one's lives. I agree with
the
>breaking news of fried potatoes thing, that's just folks exposing a
lack of
>mature insight, or being able to actually think things passed the
shallow
>threshold of being amazed we breathe on our own. But I'm not getting
the
>mockery thing or how could taking pics as a blind person really make us
>happy or be enjoyable. I think it is a matter of the perspective of the
>reasons "why" we do what we do. If I can take a picture and regardless
if
>I'm blind or not, it makes one say, "What a cool shot that is, I've
been to
>that place?" Or "That is just a cool sunset shot", and they enjoy it,
isn't
>that what it is about? I write songs and perform them and yes I do
like the
>process, I enjoy it for what it is, but what makes me write is to try
to
>evoke some emotion in a listener, take them on a mini-emotional trip. I
know
>there are people who sing better, play better, write better, entertain
>better, just like they might center an object in a pic or what not
better
>but that's OK with me. My drive as a writer is to let others enjoy or
feel.
>They show their appreciation and I enjoy that in return. It isn't about
my
>playing, writing or singing, its what it evokes from others that
matters to
>me and drives me to continue. My wife is no photographer she basically
puts
>whatever she's taking a picture of in the center of the screen and,
bam,
>clicks it and its done. Yet she got really good composition comments
from a
>professional photographer on one of her pics. She doesn't even know
what
>that is.
>And I don't wish to beat this example to the ground as I'm sure we've
all
>heard it a thousand times if even once, but it is relevant .
>The deaf musician who plays xylophone or whatever it is, in an
orchestra.
>She in no way has the same enjoyment perspective as we do, but she
enjoys it
>in her own way that matters to her and she's living the dream she wants
>regardless. Isn't that what it is all about?
>Probably more applicable are blind web designers, beats me how they do
it
>but they are out there, I can't do it, but that isn't my dream either.
If we
>wish to be seen as just people minus a label, we need to be secure in
>ourselves enough to allow us to be who we are as well. There is much
more
>to the picture than pressing a button, there's the people you get to
meet
>while taking it, there is the vacation you are on, the triple story
house of
>cards that is about to blow over if a flea jumps on it before you can
snap
>its proof of existence... whatever. People want to do things because of
the
>feeling it gives them, how are we to question the origin of that
feeling in
>whatever they decide to use as a vehicle. *smile*.
>
>Brad
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Writers Division web site:
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
>stylist mailing list
>stylist at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>stylist:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40cox
.net
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Writers Division web site:
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
>stylist mailing list
>stylist at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/lists%40braddu
nsemusic.com
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>signature database 5353 (20100809) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com
Brad Dunse
Success in life is a result of good judgment,
good judgment is a result of experience,
experience is a result of bad judgment
E Mail: brad at braddunsemusic.com
Website: http://www.braddunsemusic.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1464323555
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/braddunse
MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/braddunse
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 22:26:39 -0400
From: Chelsea Cook <astrochem119 at gmail.com>
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: [stylist] Chris Kuhl's July 4 Piece
Message-ID:
<AANLkTimwbo5qAKCDxmYqS_gVhDswqhpQmLy4OBGyOX5g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Chris,
I read your piece and absolutely loved the interplay of the different
holidays. The dialogue and characters were clever and interesting.
I've just been away at Orientation and vacation, so did not have much
time to post. But don't worry: I enjoyed your writing very much!
Please keep sharing!
Very busy preparing for college,
Chelsea Cook
--
"I ask you to look both ways. For the road to a knowledge of the
stars leads through the atom; and important knowledge of the atom has
been reached through
the stars."
Sir Arthur Eddington, British astrophysicist (1882-1944), Stars and
Atoms (1928), Lecture 1
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 02:42:21 -0500
From: "Freeh, Jessica" <JFreeh at nfb.org> (by way of David Andrews
<dandrews at visi.com>)
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
Subject: [stylist] National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights of
Blind Students
Message-ID: <auto-000166292429 at mailfront1.g2host.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT:
Chris Danielsen
Director of Public Relations
National Federation of the Blind
(410) 659-9314, extension 2330
(410) 262-1281 (Cell)
<mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org>cdanielsen at nfb.org
National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights of Blind Students
Calls for Equal Access to Information and Technology in America?s
Universities
Baltimore, Maryland (August 9, 2010): The
National Federation of the Blind (NFB) responded
today to recent attacks on the right of blind
students to have equal access to technologies
used by America?s universities and to the
textbooks and course materials offered by
institutions of higher learning. The NFB and the
United States Department of Justice, Civil Rights
Division, have come under attack in recent days
for reaching settlements with universities
requiring that the universities refrain from
purchasing any e-book technology that is not fully accessible to the
blind.
Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National
Federation of the Blind, said: ?Blind students
must have access to the same textbooks and course
materials and the same technology to read them as
all other students. This is not only a matter of
fairness to blind students but a requirement of
federal law. For this reason, we applaud the
United States Department of Justice, acting at
our request and pursuant to its mandate to
enforce this nation?s disability rights laws, for
reaching landmark settlements with colleges and
universities ensuring that e-book technologies
deployed by these institutions will be accessible
to all their students. With the announcement of
a new accessible Amazon Kindle, the recent
introduction of the Apple iPad, and the promise
of future accessible e-book products?many of
which would not have been made accessible without
our advocacy efforts?colleges and universities
will find it increasingly easy to procure e-book
technology that benefits everyone. These
settlements benefit not only blind students, who
will now have access to the same books at the
same time and at the same price as their sighted
peers, but also institutions of higher learning,
which will no longer incur the administrative
burden of producing or procuring accessible books
through separate and inferior methods. To the
extent that inaccessible e-book technology
remains a barrier to the equal education of the
blind, however, the National Federation of the
Blind will continue to fight for the educational
and legal rights of blind students, and we will
not hesitate to call upon the Department of
Justice and other government authorities to
assist us in doing so when necessary.?
###
About the National Federation of the Blind
With more than 50,000 members, the National
Federation of the Blind is the largest and most
influential membership organization of blind
people in the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
/>United States. The NFB improves blind people?s
lives through advocacy, education, research,
technology, and programs encouraging independence
and self-confidence. It is the leading force in
the blindness field today and the voice of the
nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened
the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan
Institute, the first research and training center
in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:43:15 -0500
From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP24E319553B98F66A4DEBD3C4950 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jewel,
Most digital cameras have the facial recognization feature. I have an
Easy Share by Kodak and it does the facial or object identification.
I have a tip for taking pictures. I stand as close to what ever I am
trying to take a picture of possible then back up. It usually helps so
that I actually take a shot of what I want. Digital cameras are a
little different because they do not use a view finder, but have a
screen. I suggest taking time to get use to how the camera feels when
snapping a picture.
Anyway, I do not believe any cameras will just recognize a face just
because the camera is pointing in a direction. There still has to be a
focus, but this feature helps to stabilize the image.
Good luck finding a camera. There are so many!
Bridgit
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of stylist-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 12:00 PM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9
Send stylist mailing list submissions to
stylist at nfbnet.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
stylist-request at nfbnet.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
stylist-owner at nfbnet.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of stylist digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Blindness and photography (Jewel S.)
2. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
3. Re: Writers Division member featured by Stanford University,
Center... (KajunCutie926 at aol.com)
4. Re: Blindness and photography (Robert Leslie Newman)
5. Re: Blindness and photography (Elizabeth Sammons)
6. Re: Blindness and photography (Joe Orozco)
7. Re: Blindness and photography (Jewel S.)
8. Re: Blindness and photography (Robert Leslie Newman)
9. Blindness, Photography, and Division Web Site (Peter Donahue)
10. Re: Blindness and photography (BDM)
11. Re: Blindness and photography (loristay)
12. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 12:59:51 -0400
From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID:
<AANLkTikMxTLAm0THw3xcuz385+6YB2Mr84ZccfORZ0ek at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Does anyone know the Blind Pohotographer Blog? It can be viewed at:
http://blog.blindphotographers.org/
I check this blog from time to time, because it is an interesting one.
Also, my boyfriend and I want to go over to a nearby photographer's
shop soon, to do a full review for my blog (Treasure Chest for the
Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com) about a camera that has
a "smile detector." The camera has a special feature that when a
person smiles, it takes the picture while focused ont that person. It
can be turned off, too, if you want to take a picture of someone who
isn't smiling (like a baby who is crying but is hilarious in his
temper). There is a facial identification focus as well that will let
you know when you are centered on a face. I have not tried thie camera
out, and don't remember its model name, but am hoping to get over
there to do a review on it soon. Anyone know about these features?
It's a digital camera, by the way.
My two cents on the topic,
Jewel
On 8/8/10, BDM <lists at braddunsemusic.com> wrote:
> There is nothing like following your dream, no matter what anyone
> else thinks. I am also a performing songwriter and part of PAD, I
> think Robert was asking earlier. I do a loose blog on my site
>
> http://www.braddunsemusic.com/blog.html
>
> basically a live spew of mostly unedited thoughts which recently I've
> done a couple thoughts on following dreams. One of which is in a
> monthly story behind the song which I confess why the gal in the song
> has two different colored shoes on, while some might assume its due
> to my vision loss, it was not as you'd read :). Some blind folks are
> so over sensitive to being pegged as stereotypes they miss what they
> are meant to do, or at least infringe on what others are meant to do.
> Foul ball. Just do what is in your heart and go for your dream no
> matter what anyone else thinks. Those that criticize with such
> claims, unknowingly expose their own insecurities, which may or may
> not have to do with their blindness. There are four bases and one
> chance to stand over the plate.
>
> Brad
>
> At 10:20 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
>>Peter,
>>Bless you. This is right on and well-stated. I too worked as a
>>streetsinger. I sang in Philadelphia's Suburban Station and at
>>Penn's Landing year-round for over 13 years. There were some people
>>who objected to that. Although there is a rich history of excellent
>>blind street musicians, apparently some blind people feel that it is
>>only OK to be a troubadour if you're sighted. Incidentally, my work
>>led to many non street jobs. In schools I actually got to talk about
>>blindness issues and help bridge the gap of misunderstanding and
>>fear in the sighted world. I also produced 3 albums, wrote a book
>>and was chosen as the subject of an independent film.
>>
>>I hope you are still pursuing your dream. Nobody blind or sighted
>>should be stepping on other people's dreams. When it happens within
>>the blindness community, it always reminds me how true it is that we
>>are just like everyone else -- in this case, that's a shame.
>>Donna
>>
>>Read Donna's articles on
>>Suite 101:
>>www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
>>American Chronicle:
>>www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>>
>>Connect with Donna on
>>Twitter:
>>www.twitter.com/dewhill
>>LinkedIn:
>>www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
>>FaceBook:
>>www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>>
>>Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
>>cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>>Apple I-Tunes
>>phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244
374
>>
>>Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
>>Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
>>Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
>>www.padnfb.org
>>
>>
>>On 8/7/2010 11:02 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
>>>Hello Elizabeth and everyone,
>>>
>>> This reminds me of the reaction I got from some blind
>>> individuals I knew
>>>in Massachusetts when discussing the possibility of blind persons
becoming
>>>guide dog instructors. These same people often criticized me for
working
>>> as
>>>a street musician rather than "being more gainfully employed." It was
>>> their
>>>attitude, their unwillingness to explore possibilities, and being
>>>unsupportive of my dreams and life goals that put myself and a few
others
>>> on
>>>the streets to begin with.
>>>
>>> Not all of us are cut out to be writers or photographers but
for God
>>>sakes if a blind person chooses to become a guide dog trainer, a
>>>photographer, a writer, or whatever let's support them and quit
trying to
>>>steal their dreams! I sent a message similar to this one to the NABS
List
>>>earlier this past week concerning a discussion of blind drivers.
We're
>>>federationists and our imaginative spirit and can-do attitude needs
to
>>> shine
>>>through at all times.
>>>
>>>Peter Donahue
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Elizabeth Sammons"<antigone at columbus.rr.com>
>>>To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:12 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi, Robert and all others.
>>>
>>>Yes, I'm in complete agreement that this is an interesting
discussion, and
>>>of course, knowing us as writers and thinkers, the discussion could
and
>>>should be 100% civil. (Smile.) I simply find it a mockery, a caper
that
>>>either wishes to say "Look at me, I can do this, too," to attract
>>> attention,
>>>or else totally missing the idea of good photography. I know you did
not
>>>mean it this way, Robert, and while I agree that listening to a
voice, a
>>>bird song, etc., can help one to find the subject, the difference
between
>>>capturing that subject on a picture and making it artistic is the
>>> difference
>>>between saying "Look, I know the alphabet and can write a punctuated
>>>sentence!" and "Look what a fine sentence I just wrote, evoking the
mind
>>> and
>>>spirit of my subject." I don't feel that people who are blind should
put
>>>themselves out to pursue something for the sake of pursuit rather
than to
>>> do
>>>a good job any more than as I quoted "Beethoven's Nightmare" the deaf
>>>group, they could call themselves quote real musicians end quote. For
the
>>>record, I think they take themselves with a lot of irony, which makes
the
>>>band at least marginally acceptable in my view.
>>>
>>>Admittedly, I stand on the more radical edge of this field of
thought, but
>>>I'm putting it out boldly for the sake of discussion. If anybody
writes
>>>something that makes me change my mind, I'll smile and let you know,
>>> though
>>>please note, I am not particularly trying to say here please change
my
>>>opinion on this matter.
>>>
>>>
>>>Sincerely,
>>>Elizabeth
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Writers Division web site:
>>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.o
rg/>
>>>
>>>stylist mailing list
>>>stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>stylist:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40
sbcglobal.net
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Writers Division web site:
>>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.o
rg/>
>>>
>>>stylist mailing list
>>>stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for stylist:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
epix.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
>>>Database version: 6.15600
>>>http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
>>Database version: 6.15600
>>http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Writers Division web site:
>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>>stylist mailing list
>>stylist at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/lists%40bradd
unsemusic.com
>>
>>
>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>signature database 5349 (20100807) __________
>>
>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>
>>http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>
>
> Brad Dunse
>
> Music is the only language in which you cannot say a mean or sarcastic
thing
>
> E Mail: brad at braddunsemusic.com
>
> Website: http://www.braddunsemusic.com
>
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1464323555
>
> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/braddunse
>
> MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/braddunse
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%4
0gmail.com
>
--
~Jewel
Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 13:09:44 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <4C5EE4D8.3070101 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Shelley,
When I was taking pictures, the light/shadow experience was a huge deal
for my nature shots especially. Still, I don't think sight is necessary
in all cases. Glad to hear you include photos. We're not all cut out to
take them, but it's important to realize the profound impact they can
have on sighted people. We need every tool we can find.
Donna
Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4
Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org
On 8/7/2010 1:13 AM, Shelley J. Alongi wrote:
> This is very very cool. A lot of times good photographs have to do
> with the light and its affects on surroundings and if a blind person
> can get a sense of how light reacts to surroundings and pick up clues
> I am sure it can be done. I have done many presentations not
> necerssarily for writings in which photography was a part of the
> picture. If you read fashion or home decorating magazines at all
> you'll notice a great emphasis on different kinds of light. It's all
> very logical and interesting. This works into photographs. I've always
> been one to leave the photographing to others as I have my hands very
> full at any given moment but as a blind person I've never left it out
> of my work. It is part of what makes experiences for all kinds of
> people enjoyable. Go for it!
> Shelley J. Alongi
> Independent Consultant with The Pampered Chef
> Consultant#628861
> Home Office: (714)869-3207
> Why You Should Start Your Own business with the Pampered Chef:
> 630-261-3537
> **
> NFBWD "Slate and Style" editor
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> **railroading, planes, romance,
> click on
>
http://www.storymania.com/cgibin/sm2/smshowauthorbox.cgi?page=&author=Al
ongiSJ&alpha=A
>
> updated July 14, 2010
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Leslie Newman"
> <newmanrl at cox.net>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 10:24 AM
> Subject: [stylist] Blindness and photography
>
>
>> Hey STYLIST members, here is an interesting site to check out. It's
not
>> about writing, but it deals with an skill that is often associated
with
>> writing (like in the news paper or books, etc.)
>>
>> Blind With Camera School of Photography is a virtual school with
>> step-by-step tutorials for the visually impaired to get started with
>> photography and guidance to sighted photographers for starting
>> photographic
>> workshops with local visually impaired people.
>>
>>
>>
<http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1103601039185&s=3910&e=001PsgFa0OJYOsU6mli
68as
>>
>>
FX7oGcOcZRAqA-mEOYBq2vk334oeaLxtCx-GpDgMf2vU3FbXtJyE1cQ4lsJK8cvdmXLbW68n
uq80
>>
>> INGrImyzskNBaClBHACQhKfKyTWq2GPy>
http://www.blindwithcameraschool.org
>>
>> Robert Leslie Newman
>> President NFB Writers' division
>> Writers' Division Website-
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>> Personal Website-
>> http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/qobells%40roadr
unner.com
>>
>>
>
>
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> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 13:26:48 EDT
From: KajunCutie926 at aol.com
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [stylist] Writers Division member featured by Stanford
University, Center...
Message-ID: <b01ca.77a1cfe5.399042d8 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Indeed.. huge congrats Donna!!
In a message dated 8/8/2010 11:20:07 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
lists at braddunsemusic.com writes:
Indeed congrats Donna!
Brad
At 11:07 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
>Donna
>
>this is great news! You are indeed deserving of being honored for the
>widespread coverage that you do with your writings. We within the
Writers'
>Division, as being authors who happen to be blind, and no matter if it
is
>blindness issues we concentrate on, or not, we all are working to
change
>what it means to be blind, and though recognition for our work is
seldom
>given, it is a great feel when it happens.
>
>So keep up the good work!
>
>(All this goes for our sighted members, too; you are one of us.)
>
>
>Robert Leslie Newman
>President NFB Writers' division
>Writers' Division Website-
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>Personal Website-
>http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
>Behalf Of Donna Hill
>Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 8:34 AM
>To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>Subject: [stylist] Writers Division member featured by Stanford
University,
>Center for Social Innovation
>
>Hi Friends, <http://www.stanford.edu/>
>I have received a great honor which has led to publicity for the NFB
and
for
>blindness issues. I was chosen as the 2nd "Third Sector Grit"
>profile for Stanford University. "Donna Hill: A Profile in Third
Sector
>Grit" (July 23, 2010), by John Brothers has just been published by
Stanford
>University, <http://www.stanford.edu/> Graduate School of Business,
><http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/> Center for Social Innovation
>at: <http://csi.gsb.stanford.edu>
>
>http://www.ssireview.org/opinion/entry/donna_hill_a_profile_in_third_se
ctor
_
>grit/
>
>The project profiles people who are making a difference in nonprofits
>
>Enjoy and please pass along,
>Donna Hill
>
>
>--
>Read Donna's articles on
>Suite 101:
>www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
>American Chronicle:
>www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>
>Connect with Donna on
>Twitter:
>www.twitter.com/dewhill
>LinkedIn:
>www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
>FaceBook:
>www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>
>Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
>cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>Apple I-Tunes
>phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=2592443
74
>
>Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project Donna is Head of Media
Relations
>for the nonprofit Performing Arts Division of the National Federation
of
the
>Blind:
>www.padnfb.org
>
>
>
>
>
>E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514) Database version:
>6.15510 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>_______________________________________________
>Writers Division web site:
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
>stylist mailing list
>stylist at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>stylist:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40cox
.net
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Writers Division web site:
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
>stylist mailing list
>stylist at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
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nsem
usic.com
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>signature database 5349 (20100807) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com
Brad Dunse
This world is but a canvas to our imaginations
E Mail: brad at braddunsemusic.com
Website: http://www.braddunsemusic.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1464323555
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/braddunse
MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/braddunse
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
stylist mailing list
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 19:47:37 -0500
From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <45E1939B69E346EC9B423371B9E8AE9A at RobertLesliePC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Elizabeth
Hmm, on the specific issue of some blind folks getting into --- showing
off,
like doing something just to prove that they can do something --- well,
personally, I'm past that stage of -- call that sort of thing as
"acceptance," by the blind person themselves or the blind guy's attempt
to
get the sighted world to accept him/her.
So as for my part of this discussion, it is more along the line of
knowing
that some of us blind folks can take photos and get some that are
acceptable
and may get some that would be considered as being very good, too. (Not
all
sighted folks can take a good photo, either.)
thus, in general, my initial response to your email was a --- matter of
seeking out where you were coming from and equally , as I would do with
any
questionable comment by whomever about the abilities of a blind person,
I
wanted to counter what you were seeming to be saying; as it were, you
took
the glass as being half empty and I was saying it was half full.
Robert Leslie Newman
President NFB Writers' division
Writers' Division Website-
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
Personal Website-
http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Elizabeth Sammons
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:12 AM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Hi, Robert and all others.
Yes, I'm in complete agreement that this is an interesting discussion,
and
of course, knowing us as writers and thinkers, the discussion could and
should be 100% civil. (Smile.) I simply find it a mockery, a caper that
either wishes to say "Look at me, I can do this, too," to attract
attention,
or else totally missing the idea of good photography. I know you did not
mean it this way, Robert, and while I agree that listening to a voice, a
bird song, etc., can help one to find the subject, the difference
between
capturing that subject on a picture and making it artistic is the
difference
between saying "Look, I know the alphabet and can write a punctuated
sentence!" and "Look what a fine sentence I just wrote, evoking the mind
and
spirit of my subject." I don't feel that people who are blind should put
themselves out to pursue something for the sake of pursuit rather than
to do
a good job any more than as I quoted "Beethoven's Nightmare" the deaf
group,
they could call themselves quote real musicians end quote. For the
record, I
think they take themselves with a lot of irony, which makes the band at
least marginally acceptable in my view.
Admittedly, I stand on the more radical edge of this field of thought,
but
I'm putting it out boldly for the sake of discussion. If anybody writes
something that makes me change my mind, I'll smile and let you know,
though
please note, I am not particularly trying to say here please change my
opinion on this matter.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 21:17:27 -0400
From: "Elizabeth Sammons" <antigone at columbus.rr.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <77.D9.24046.B275F5C4 at hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Colleagues,
Well, I am glad that the subject of blindness and photography, or as I
might
call it blindness versus photography, is getting a lot of reaction.
Folks
here do not know me, but perhaps you will trust me that in general, I am
very far from being a ney sayer both in my personal life and in my
career.
As I dig into my own thoughts, here's what is eating at me when I
consider
the subject of blind camera people and photographs. Photography, I think
you
will agree with me, is by its very essence a matter of vision and view.
Blindness by its essence is the matter of having lost or never having
had
that very vision or view. This is why it still seems to me a mockery to
try
to combine the two, water and oil. And even if the effort is made, I
don't
get the point or the happiness of doing something along this line.
I am appreciative of some of the reasoning raised such as wanting to
leave a
visual record to one's children, wanting to see if one can simply
capture a
subject in the frame, etc.. But even in the best scenario, say, the
subject
is captured successfully, I am reminded of a news subject that I saw
while
living in Russia about a young man who was blind and who fried his own
potatoes for dinner. So what? So does everybody else. So what's the
newsworthiness in that? Similarly I would say that there is nothing
praiseworthy in someone who is blind taking a picture beyond perhaps
some
desire to try a new thing, since it is a thing that anybody else can do.
Note, I am not talking here about the artistry of the photo... that is a
completely different matter which I addressed earlier.
Anyhow, here's to the diversity of opinion such groups support, and
thanks
for making me think on this issue a bit more deeply than prior to this
discussion.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 23:38:31 -0400
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <6C607955DD654D6B9411E5FE8087A065 at Rufus>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear all,
I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
product? This can't possibly be something one can independently measure
without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
has been bounced about quite a bit already.
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 03:29:05 -0400
From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID:
<AANLkTi=P0mp2vYOfs=Xxjv9zJwBus50FqeXzLyzerUvp at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
The way I see it, many blind people are not totally blind. Quite a few
have some sort of usable vision. My boyfriend is one such example, as
am I. He has enough vision that he can use a CCTV to read things. We
found that using the handheld CCTV (Amigo), he could freeze the screen
over an object to take a "picture" of it, then magnify it and put it
on the TV if necessary to be able to see it. I think having a digital
camera and a large screen TV would be really great for him, because
then he would be able to see things that are quite small normally, but
he could blow it up to a size wher he could see it (for example, a
pretty bouquet of crepe myrtle flowers or the painting on a decorative
plate.
I have heard of some blind photographers doing so for the simple
reason of magnifying the picture to be able to see the faces of family
and friends. I know my boyfriend would be able to do this. I really
would give near anything to be able to do the same. Sadly, my vision
is not good enough for that.
At this point, my vision is almost exclusively light and colour
perception. However, as I can see colour, a high contrast image is
still something of a beauty to me. As an example, there is a blind
painter in Texas who did a painting called Eyes. It is purely black
and white, and very high contrast. It is very lovely to my eyes, if
magnifyed gratly.
For myself, I would love to be able to take pictures to share my life
with ffamily that I do not see often. Most of my family is in
Lousiana, and others are in Arkansas, South Dakota, Texas, and
overseas. I do not get to see them often, and they have not seen any
pictures of me in several years. I would love to be able to take
pictures of myself and things in my life (like my cat when she is in
one of her silly poses, or my boyfriend asleep with his dog laying
across his chest with a cute look on his face) to send to my family
and friends. Just because I am blind doesn't mean I don't understand
the importance of sharing images from my life with my sighted family
and friends. I know pictures are important to sighted people, having
been one myself for 23 years, and I wish to share images from my own
life with others.
My two cents,
Jewel
On 8/8/10, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
> but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
> product? This can't possibly be something one can independently
measure
> without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
> counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
> want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
> genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
> enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
> has been bounced about quite a bit already.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%4
0gmail.com
>
--
~Jewel
Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 09:59:14 -0500
From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <1D0F972DFCFE4015BC1024CD7DE6151B at RobertLesliePC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Elizabeth
This discussion, if anything has allowed me/us to get to know you
better;
your take on blindness, your perception on societal reactions/acceptance
to
us, and more. And, I know that on these very complex facets of your ---
or
for any of us who have been revealing our personal philosophies, we have
been privileged to share only the proverbial "tip of the iceberg."
And so after reading your latest message, what I'm feeling/thinking this
morning is that we are talking along the same lines of thought and, at
least
I am feeling we are --- let's see --- that more than anything, we are
sharing what could be seen as a "personal choice thing." that
bottom-line,
we are in agreement that a blind guy can do most things (those things
that
we have an interest in and some talent for) which can include
photography.
Secondly, that yes, we jointly agree that with the very nature of
"photography" being a visual art/thing, that there are issues a blind
guy
would need to address to make it work.
And so, I appreciate that you've been upfront with sharing your take and
choice.
(Anyone else? How do you see this?)
Robert Leslie Newman
President NFB Writers' division
Writers' Division Website-
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
Personal Website-
http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Elizabeth Sammons
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 8:17 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Colleagues,
Well, I am glad that the subject of blindness and photography, or as I
might
call it blindness versus photography, is getting a lot of reaction.
Folks
here do not know me, but perhaps you will trust me that in general, I am
very far from being a ney sayer both in my personal life and in my
career.
As I dig into my own thoughts, here's what is eating at me when I
consider
the subject of blind camera people and photographs. Photography, I think
you
will agree with me, is by its very essence a matter of vision and view.
Blindness by its essence is the matter of having lost or never having
had
that very vision or view. This is why it still seems to me a mockery to
try
to combine the two, water and oil. And even if the effort is made, I
don't
get the point or the happiness of doing something along this line.
I am appreciative of some of the reasoning raised such as wanting to
leave a
visual record to one's children, wanting to see if one can simply
capture a
subject in the frame, etc.. But even in the best scenario, say, the
subject
is captured successfully, I am reminded of a news subject that I saw
while
living in Russia about a young man who was blind and who fried his own
potatoes for dinner. So what? So does everybody else. So what's the
newsworthiness in that? Similarly I would say that there is nothing
praiseworthy in someone who is blind taking a picture beyond perhaps
some
desire to try a new thing, since it is a thing that anybody else can do.
Note, I am not talking here about the artistry of the photo... that is a
completely different matter which I addressed earlier.
Anyhow, here's to the diversity of opinion such groups support, and
thanks
for making me think on this issue a bit more deeply than prior to this
discussion.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
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net
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 10:45:59 -0500
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [stylist] Blindness, Photography, and Division Web Site
Message-ID: <00e701cb37d9$f7cc8dc0$4001a8c0 at yourfsyly0jtwn>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Good morning everyone,
With all of the discussion of the blind and photography our division
Web
site is a wonderful place to showcase the talents of budding blind
photographers. If you take pictures that would complement your story and
send it along with a discription of the photo these would be a great way
to
spruce up our division Web site. One of our affiliates had some pictures
taken by several of its blind members on its Web site. I had a sighted
person check all site photos before the pages in question went live. All
pictures including those taken by the blind people were excelent. Hence
I
want to suggest that if anyone has taken pictures that would complement
an
article or a story these would be great to post on the division Web
site.
The only thing I ask is that you include a description of what's
being
shown in the photograph along with the photo file attachment. It is this
discription that it used as the alt text to describe the images. Happy
picture taking.
Peter Donahyue
Webmaster, National Federation of the Blind Writers' Division
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 11:55:05 -0500
From: BDM <lists at braddunsemusic.com>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20100809105401.02a2d7c0 at www.braddunsemusic.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Since you asked about opinions Robert :). In response to someones
recent post. I too am not a nay sayer, optimistically an optimist :),
and also an encourager and not complainer by nature. So the
following comment is meant to be taken in that light. I don't quite
understand the point of it being a mockery as a blind photographer,
professional or just someone clicking pics for a visual journal of
their own or loved one's lives. I agree with the breaking news of
fried potatoes thing, that's just folks exposing a lack of mature
insight, or being able to actually think things passed the shallow
threshold of being amazed we breathe on our own. But I'm not getting
the mockery thing or how could taking pics as a blind person really
make us happy or be enjoyable. I think it is a matter of the
perspective of the reasons "why" we do what we do. If I can take a
picture and regardless if I'm blind or not, it makes one say, "What a
cool shot that is, I've been to that place?" Or "That is just a cool
sunset shot", and they enjoy it, isn't that what it is about? I
write songs and perform them and yes I do like the process, I enjoy
it for what it is, but what makes me write is to try to evoke some
emotion in a listener, take them on a mini-emotional trip. I know
there are people who sing better, play better, write
better, entertain better, just like they might center an object
in a pic or what not better but that's OK with me. My drive as a
writer is to let others enjoy or feel. They show their appreciation
and I enjoy that in return. It isn't about my playing, writing or
singing, its what it evokes from others that matters to me and drives
me to continue. My wife is no photographer she basically puts
whatever she's taking a picture of in the center of the screen and,
bam, clicks it and its done. Yet she got really good composition
comments from a professional photographer on one of her pics. She
doesn't even know what that is.
And I don't wish to beat this example to the ground as I'm sure we've
all heard it a thousand times if even once, but it is relevant .
The deaf musician who plays xylophone or whatever it is, in an
orchestra. She in no way has the same enjoyment perspective as we do,
but she enjoys it in her own way that matters to her and she's living
the dream she wants regardless. Isn't that what it is all about?
Probably more applicable are blind web designers, beats me how they
do it but they are out there, I can't do it, but that isn't my dream
either. If we wish to be seen as just people minus a label, we need
to be secure in ourselves enough to allow us to be who we are as
well. There is much more to the picture than pressing a button,
there's the people you get to meet while taking it, there is the
vacation you are on, the triple story house of cards that is about to
blow over if a flea jumps on it before you can snap its proof of
existence... whatever. People want to do things because of the
feeling it gives them, how are we to question the origin of that
feeling in whatever they decide to use as a vehicle. *smile*.
Brad
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 12:56:23 -0400
From: loristay <loristay at aol.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <CA2D3D2A.2B78.4F05.B4A5.B3A82B993C39 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Amen, Pete.
Lori
On Aug 7, 2010, at 11:02:27 PM, "Peter Donahue"
<pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 7, 2010 11:02:27 PM EDT
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Hello Elizabeth and everyone,
This reminds me of the reaction I got from some blind individuals I
knew?
in Massachusetts when discussing the possibility of blind persons
becoming?
guide dog instructors. These same people often criticized me for working
as?
a street musician rather than "being more gainfully employed." It was
their?
attitude, their unwillingness to explore possibilities, and being?
unsupportive of my dreams and life goals that put myself and a few
others on?
the streets to begin with.
Not all of us are cut out to be writers or photographers but for God?
sakes if a blind person chooses to become a guide dog trainer, a?
photographer, a writer, or whatever let's support them and quit trying
to?
steal their dreams! I sent a message similar to this one to the NABS
List?
earlier this past week concerning a discussion of blind drivers. We're?
federationists and our imaginative spirit and can-do attitude needs to
shine?
through at all times.
Peter Donahue
----- Original Message -----?
From: "Elizabeth Sammons" <antigone at columbus.rr.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Hi, Robert and all others.
Yes, I'm in complete agreement that this is an interesting discussion,
and
of course, knowing us as writers and thinkers, the discussion could and
should be 100% civil. (Smile.) I simply find it a mockery, a caper that
either wishes to say "Look at me, I can do this, too," to attract
attention,
or else totally missing the idea of good photography. I know you did not
mean it this way, Robert, and while I agree that listening to a voice, a
bird song, etc., can help one to find the subject, the difference
between
capturing that subject on a picture and making it artistic is the
difference
between saying "Look, I know the alphabet and can write a punctuated
sentence!" and "Look what a fine sentence I just wrote, evoking the mind
and
spirit of my subject." I don't feel that people who are blind should put
themselves out to pursue something for the sake of pursuit rather than
to do
a good job any more than as I quoted "Beethoven's Nightmare" the deaf
group, they could call themselves quote real musicians end quote. For
the
record, I think they take themselves with a lot of irony, which makes
the
band at least marginally acceptable in my view.
Admittedly, I stand on the more radical edge of this field of thought,
but
I'm putting it out boldly for the sake of discussion. If anybody writes
something that makes me change my mind, I'll smile and let you know,
though
please note, I am not particularly trying to say here please change my
opinion on this matter.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth
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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 12:57:27 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <4C603377.2020506 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Right on Jewel. Donna
Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4
Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org
On 8/9/2010 3:29 AM, Jewel S. wrote:
> The way I see it, many blind people are not totally blind. Quite a few
> have some sort of usable vision. My boyfriend is one such example, as
> am I. He has enough vision that he can use a CCTV to read things. We
> found that using the handheld CCTV (Amigo), he could freeze the screen
> over an object to take a "picture" of it, then magnify it and put it
> on the TV if necessary to be able to see it. I think having a digital
> camera and a large screen TV would be really great for him, because
> then he would be able to see things that are quite small normally, but
> he could blow it up to a size wher he could see it (for example, a
> pretty bouquet of crepe myrtle flowers or the painting on a decorative
> plate.
>
> I have heard of some blind photographers doing so for the simple
> reason of magnifying the picture to be able to see the faces of family
> and friends. I know my boyfriend would be able to do this. I really
> would give near anything to be able to do the same. Sadly, my vision
> is not good enough for that.
>
> At this point, my vision is almost exclusively light and colour
> perception. However, as I can see colour, a high contrast image is
> still something of a beauty to me. As an example, there is a blind
> painter in Texas who did a painting called Eyes. It is purely black
> and white, and very high contrast. It is very lovely to my eyes, if
> magnifyed gratly.
>
> For myself, I would love to be able to take pictures to share my life
> with ffamily that I do not see often. Most of my family is in
> Lousiana, and others are in Arkansas, South Dakota, Texas, and
> overseas. I do not get to see them often, and they have not seen any
> pictures of me in several years. I would love to be able to take
> pictures of myself and things in my life (like my cat when she is in
> one of her silly poses, or my boyfriend asleep with his dog laying
> across his chest with a cute look on his face) to send to my family
> and friends. Just because I am blind doesn't mean I don't understand
> the importance of sharing images from my life with my sighted family
> and friends. I know pictures are important to sighted people, having
> been one myself for 23 years, and I wish to share images from my own
> life with others.
>
> My two cents,
> Jewel
>
> On 8/8/10, Joe Orozco<jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
>> but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of
their
>> product? This can't possibly be something one can independently
measure
>> without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
>> counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
>> want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
>> genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
>> enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
>> has been bounced about quite a bit already.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>>
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/
>
>>
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>> stylist at nfbnet.org
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>>
>>
>
>
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**************************************
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:50:55 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9
Message-ID: <4C61836F.20605 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi Bridget and all,
My husband has a digital camera with a view finder, so they're not all
screens, though his is a bit more expensive.
Donna
Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4
Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org
On 8/10/2010 12:43 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote:
> Jewel,
>
> Most digital cameras have the facial recognization feature. I have an
> Easy Share by Kodak and it does the facial or object identification.
>
> I have a tip for taking pictures. I stand as close to what ever I am
> trying to take a picture of possible then back up. It usually helps
so
> that I actually take a shot of what I want. Digital cameras are a
> little different because they do not use a view finder, but have a
> screen. I suggest taking time to get use to how the camera feels when
> snapping a picture.
>
> Anyway, I do not believe any cameras will just recognize a face just
> because the camera is pointing in a direction. There still has to be
a
> focus, but this feature helps to stabilize the image.
>
> Good luck finding a camera. There are so many!
>
> Bridgit
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
> Behalf Of stylist-request at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 12:00 PM
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9
>
> Send stylist mailing list submissions to
> stylist at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of stylist digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Blindness and photography (Jewel S.)
> 2. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
> 3. Re: Writers Division member featured by Stanford
University,
> Center... (KajunCutie926 at aol.com)
> 4. Re: Blindness and photography (Robert Leslie Newman)
> 5. Re: Blindness and photography (Elizabeth Sammons)
> 6. Re: Blindness and photography (Joe Orozco)
> 7. Re: Blindness and photography (Jewel S.)
> 8. Re: Blindness and photography (Robert Leslie Newman)
> 9. Blindness, Photography, and Division Web Site (Peter Donahue)
> 10. Re: Blindness and photography (BDM)
> 11. Re: Blindness and photography (loristay)
> 12. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 12:59:51 -0400
> From: "Jewel S."<herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTikMxTLAm0THw3xcuz385+6YB2Mr84ZccfORZ0ek at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Does anyone know the Blind Pohotographer Blog? It can be viewed at:
> http://blog.blindphotographers.org/
>
> I check this blog from time to time, because it is an interesting one.
>
> Also, my boyfriend and I want to go over to a nearby photographer's
> shop soon, to do a full review for my blog (Treasure Chest for the
> Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com) about a camera that has
> a "smile detector." The camera has a special feature that when a
> person smiles, it takes the picture while focused ont that person. It
> can be turned off, too, if you want to take a picture of someone who
> isn't smiling (like a baby who is crying but is hilarious in his
> temper). There is a facial identification focus as well that will let
> you know when you are centered on a face. I have not tried thie camera
> out, and don't remember its model name, but am hoping to get over
> there to do a review on it soon. Anyone know about these features?
> It's a digital camera, by the way.
>
> My two cents on the topic,
> Jewel
>
> On 8/8/10, BDM<lists at braddunsemusic.com> wrote:
>
>> There is nothing like following your dream, no matter what anyone
>> else thinks. I am also a performing songwriter and part of PAD, I
>> think Robert was asking earlier. I do a loose blog on my site
>>
>> http://www.braddunsemusic.com/blog.html
>>
>> basically a live spew of mostly unedited thoughts which recently I've
>> done a couple thoughts on following dreams. One of which is in a
>> monthly story behind the song which I confess why the gal in the song
>> has two different colored shoes on, while some might assume its due
>> to my vision loss, it was not as you'd read :). Some blind folks are
>> so over sensitive to being pegged as stereotypes they miss what they
>> are meant to do, or at least infringe on what others are meant to do.
>> Foul ball. Just do what is in your heart and go for your dream no
>> matter what anyone else thinks. Those that criticize with such
>> claims, unknowingly expose their own insecurities, which may or may
>> not have to do with their blindness. There are four bases and one
>> chance to stand over the plate.
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> At 10:20 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
>>
>>> Peter,
>>> Bless you. This is right on and well-stated. I too worked as a
>>> streetsinger. I sang in Philadelphia's Suburban Station and at
>>> Penn's Landing year-round for over 13 years. There were some people
>>> who objected to that. Although there is a rich history of excellent
>>> blind street musicians, apparently some blind people feel that it is
>>> only OK to be a troubadour if you're sighted. Incidentally, my work
>>> led to many non street jobs. In schools I actually got to talk about
>>> blindness issues and help bridge the gap of misunderstanding and
>>> fear in the sighted world. I also produced 3 albums, wrote a book
>>> and was chosen as the subject of an independent film.
>>>
>>> I hope you are still pursuing your dream. Nobody blind or sighted
>>> should be stepping on other people's dreams. When it happens within
>>> the blindness community, it always reminds me how true it is that we
>>> are just like everyone else -- in this case, that's a shame.
>>> Donna
>>>
>>> Read Donna's articles on
>>> Suite 101:
>>> www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
>>> American Chronicle:
>>> www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>>>
>>> Connect with Donna on
>>> Twitter:
>>> www.twitter.com/dewhill
>>> LinkedIn:
>>> www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
>>> FaceBook:
>>> www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>>>
>>> Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
>>> cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>>> Apple I-Tunes
>>>
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244
>>>
> 374
>
>>> Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
>>> Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
>>> Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
>>> www.padnfb.org
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/7/2010 11:02 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Elizabeth and everyone,
>>>>
>>>> This reminds me of the reaction I got from some blind
>>>> individuals I knew
>>>> in Massachusetts when discussing the possibility of blind persons
>>>>
> becoming
>
>>>> guide dog instructors. These same people often criticized me for
>>>>
> working
>
>>>> as
>>>> a street musician rather than "being more gainfully employed." It
was
>>>> their
>>>> attitude, their unwillingness to explore possibilities, and being
>>>> unsupportive of my dreams and life goals that put myself and a few
>>>>
> others
>
>>>> on
>>>> the streets to begin with.
>>>>
>>>> Not all of us are cut out to be writers or photographers but
>>>>
> for God
>
>>>> sakes if a blind person chooses to become a guide dog trainer, a
>>>> photographer, a writer, or whatever let's support them and quit
>>>>
> trying to
>
>>>> steal their dreams! I sent a message similar to this one to the
NABS
>>>>
> List
>
>>>> earlier this past week concerning a discussion of blind drivers.
>>>>
> We're
>
>>>> federationists and our imaginative spirit and can-do attitude needs
>>>>
> to
>
>>>> shine
>>>> through at all times.
>>>>
>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Elizabeth Sammons"<antigone at columbus.rr.com>
>>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:12 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi, Robert and all others.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I'm in complete agreement that this is an interesting
>>>>
> discussion, and
>
>>>> of course, knowing us as writers and thinkers, the discussion could
>>>>
> and
>
>>>> should be 100% civil. (Smile.) I simply find it a mockery, a caper
>>>>
> that
>
>>>> either wishes to say "Look at me, I can do this, too," to attract
>>>> attention,
>>>> or else totally missing the idea of good photography. I know you
did
>>>>
> not
>
>>>> mean it this way, Robert, and while I agree that listening to a
>>>>
> voice, a
>
>>>> bird song, etc., can help one to find the subject, the difference
>>>>
> between
>
>>>> capturing that subject on a picture and making it artistic is the
>>>> difference
>>>> between saying "Look, I know the alphabet and can write a
punctuated
>>>> sentence!" and "Look what a fine sentence I just wrote, evoking the
>>>>
> mind
>
>>>> and
>>>> spirit of my subject." I don't feel that people who are blind
should
>>>>
> put
>
>>>> themselves out to pursue something for the sake of pursuit rather
>>>>
> than to
>
>>>> do
>>>> a good job any more than as I quoted "Beethoven's Nightmare" the
deaf
>>>> group, they could call themselves quote real musicians end quote.
For
>>>>
> the
>
>>>> record, I think they take themselves with a lot of irony, which
makes
>>>>
> the
>
>>>> band at least marginally acceptable in my view.
>>>>
>>>> Admittedly, I stand on the more radical edge of this field of
>>>>
> thought, but
>
>>>> I'm putting it out boldly for the sake of discussion. If anybody
>>>>
> writes
>
>>>> something that makes me change my mind, I'll smile and let you
know,
>>>> though
>>>> please note, I am not particularly trying to say here please
change
>>>>
> my
>
>>>> opinion on this matter.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>>
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.o
>>>>
> rg/>
>
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
>>>> stylist:
>>>>
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>>>>
> sbcglobal.net
>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>>
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.o
>>>>
> rg/>
>
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for stylist:
>>>>
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>>>>
> epix.net
>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site:
>>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>>
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
>>> stylist mailing list
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> unsemusic.com
>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>> Brad Dunse
>>
>> Music is the only language in which you cannot say a mean or
sarcastic
>>
> thing
>
>> E Mail: brad at braddunsemusic.com
>>
>> Website: http://www.braddunsemusic.com
>>
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1464323555
>>
>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/braddunse
>>
>> MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/braddunse
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
>> stylist mailing list
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:42:06 -0400
From: loristay <loristay at aol.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and Photography
Message-ID: <DBADDAB7.BCD2.4AB4.9803.5CB39BE3B0D6 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Beautiful, Bridget. ?take the word "Ass" out of the last paragraph and
send it to Shelley Alongi for Slate & Style: ?qobells at roadrunner.com
Lori
On Aug 10, 2010, at 11:56:22 PM, "Bridgit Pollpeter"
<bpollpeter at hotmail.com> wrote:
From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
Subject: [stylist] Blindness and Photography
Date: August 10, 2010 11:56:22 PM EDT
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Dear List,
I saw a story on the Today Show a couple of years ago about a blind
photographer. He was totally blind, but was a professional
photographer. He was hired (by the sighted and blind) to work all kinds
of events including weddings. In the story, he had been hired by a
sighted couple to work their wedding.
Society (including us who are blind) do not always look outside our
perceptions. If we can't do it, then we think no one can do it. My
brain is not wired to think like a scientist, but that does not mean
others do not have the capacity to think as a scientist. People think
so many things are visual, and therefore not doable and enjoyable by the
blind. Initially Apple refused to make the I-phone accessible because,
according to them, it was a, "fundamentally visually-oriented product,"
implying that those with blindness would not enjoy it. Well, how many
of us have enjoyed our I-phones? If everyone thought visually-oriented
items and things were not possible for the blind, the NFB would not
exist.
It has been the mission of the NFB to break barriers and prove that the
sky is the limit for the blind too. That is what the Blind Driver
Challenge is about. It is not just about the blind being able to drive.
It reaches farther than that. In a nutshell, if we can make a car
accessible for the blind to independently drive, then we can make
anything accessible. The Challenge was issued to force us to think
outside the box; to change our perceptions and our realities.
As individuals, we have unique personalities, and we hold beliefs and
enjoy interest. We are not all alike, and we do not always share the
same ideas and opinions. Yet we (the blind) must accept that perception
is not knowledge. If we can drive a car then we can be guide dog
instructors, musicians, writers and even photographers. The world only
changes when we step out of our comfort zones and attempt the
(perceived) impossible.
Independence is more than learning alternative skills, and it is more
than being gainfully employed. Independence is a mindset. If we
believe in limitations then we do not embrace true independence. If we
(the blind) are so willing to accept the concept of limitations, then
how can we expect the rest of society to view us as competent, capable
people. Disability is also a state of mind. Many have dreamed and saw
that dream come to fruition because they worked hard and were willing to
think beyond the perception.
We must be ourselves, and we do not have to pursue things just because
we are trying to prove a point, but we should also not stifle those who
truly want to pursue certain avenues. Again, just because I don't
understand or enjoy some things, does not mean others feel the opposite.
My long ass point here is that we must look beyond perceptions,
including our own, in order for their to be progress, and not just for
those of us who are blind, but for the world in general.
Bridgit Pollpeter
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of stylist-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 12:00 PM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 10
Send stylist mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Blindness and photography (loristay)
2. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
3. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
4. Photography and Sighted Assistance (Joe Orozco)
5. Re: Blindness and photography (Judith Bron)
6. Re: Blindness and photography (Judith Bron)
7. Re: Blindness and photography (Priscilla McKinley)
8. Re: Blindness and photography (Robert Leslie Newman)
9. Re: Photography and Sighted Assistance (Robert Leslie Newman)
10. Re: Blindness and photography (BDM)
11. Chris Kuhl's July 4 Piece (Chelsea Cook)
12. National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights of Blind
Students (Freeh, Jessica)
13. Re: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9 (Bridgit Pollpeter)
14. Re: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9 (Donna Hill)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 13:03:28 -0400
From: loristay <loristay at aol.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <EC34B5E1.1C9A.4BD1.8A87.38FB61C4F79C at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
What makes you think sighted people don't often ask for assistance from
others, whether sighted or blind? ?No one is completely independent.
?That's the way of the world.
Lori
On Aug 8, 2010, at 11:38:31 PM, "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 8, 2010 11:38:31 PM EDT
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Dear all,
I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
product? This can't possibly be something one can independently measure
without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
has been bounced about quite a bit already.
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing?
_______________________________________________
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http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 13:17:01 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <4C60380D.8000609 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Joe,
If photos are to be used solely by the blind/visually impaired?
photographer -- those of us who have some usable vision and simply want?
to see things in what is often a better format than reality, because we?
can stare at it for a long time and /or blow it up and change the?
contrast -- then, no sighted help is needed to judge the quality of the
photo. Sighted help, I believe is useful in learning to aim and operate?
the camera to begin with, and in the cases where a blind person wants to
share the photos with others. As Peter points out, he had sighted?
assistance in checking photos prior to posting them on the division?
website. With the low cost of taking digital photos and the fact that?
you can e-mail them to your relatives, you can either count on them to?
weed out the duds -- and sighted people have more duds than good ones --
or have a trusted sighted friend review them prior to using them. I?
certainly don't suggest that anyone start sending out photos to?
publishers as the art work of a blind person, for instance, without?
having plenty of sighted opinions.
Two final points ... There's nothing wrong with wanting to see things or
acknowledging that visual imagery is hugely important in the sighted?
world. There's also nothing wrong in "needing" sighted assistance.?
Sometimes, I think we forget that people in general seek, value and?
indeed need the opinions of others, be they sighted or blind.
Donna
Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4
Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org
On 8/8/2010 11:38 PM, Joe Orozco wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
> but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
> product? This can't possibly be something one can independently
measure
> without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
> counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
> want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
> genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
> enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
> has been bounced about quite a bit already.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
>
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/
>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
>
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>
>
>
>
> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
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> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 13:19:27 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <4C60389F.6040100 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Brad, well put and many excellent points.
Donna
Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4
Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org
On 8/9/2010 12:55 PM, BDM wrote:
> Since you asked about opinions Robert :). In response to someones?
> recent post. I too am not a nay sayer, optimistically an optimist :),?
> and also an encourager and not complainer by nature. So the following
> comment is meant to be taken in that light. I don't quite understand?
> the point of it being a mockery as a blind photographer, professional?
> or just someone clicking pics for a visual journal of their own or?
> loved one's lives. I agree with the breaking news of fried potatoes?
> thing, that's just folks exposing a lack of mature insight, or being?
> able to actually think things passed the shallow threshold of being?
> amazed we breathe on our own. But I'm not getting the mockery thing or
> how could taking pics as a blind person really make us happy or be?
> enjoyable. I think it is a matter of the perspective of the reasons?
> "why" we do what we do. If I can take a picture and regardless if I'm?
> blind or not, it makes one say, "What a cool shot that is, I've been?
> to that place?" Or "That is just a cool sunset shot", and they enjoy?
> it, isn't that what it is about? I write songs and perform them and
> yes I do like the process, I enjoy it for what it is, but what makes?
> me write is to try to evoke some emotion in a listener, take them on?
> a mini-emotional trip. I know there are people who sing better, play?
> better, write better, entertain better, just like they might center?
> an object in a pic or what not better but that's OK with me. My drive
> as a writer is to let others enjoy or feel. They show their?
> appreciation and I enjoy that in return. It isn't about my playing,?
> writing or singing, its what it evokes from others that matters to me?
> and drives me to continue. My wife is no photographer she basically?
> puts whatever she's taking a picture of in the center of the screen?
> and, bam, clicks it and its done. Yet she got really good composition?
> comments from a professional photographer on one of her pics. She?
> doesn't even know what that is.
> And I don't wish to beat this example to the ground as I'm sure we've?
> all heard it a thousand times if even once, but it is relevant . The
> deaf musician who plays xylophone or whatever it is, in an orchestra.?
> She in no way has the same enjoyment perspective as we do, but she?
> enjoys it in her own way that matters to her and she's living the?
> dream she wants regardless. Isn't that what it is all about? Probably?
> more applicable are blind web designers, beats me how they do it but?
> they are out there, I can't do it, but that isn't my dream either. If?
> we wish to be seen as just people minus a label, we need to be secure
> in ourselves enough to allow us to be who we are as well. There is?
> much more to the picture than pressing a button, there's the people?
> you get to meet while taking it, there is the vacation you are on, the
> triple story house of cards that is about to blow over if a flea jumps
> on it before you can snap its proof of existence... whatever. People?
> want to do things because of the feeling it gives them, how are we to?
> question the origin of that feeling in whatever they decide to use as
> a vehicle. *smile*.
>
> Brad
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org?
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
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>
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 13:20:40 -0400
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [stylist] Photography and Sighted Assistance
Message-ID: <A1D030516FCF4978973BD2A986A112B2 at Rufus>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Lori,
You misunderstand my point. I am not one of those hard core blind
people
who are opposed to sighted assistance by any means. My point is that
there
are a plethora of jobs where people can fulfill a job without the need
for
sighted people to double check the results. This is not to say that I
do
not have my supervisor eyeball my outbound grant proposals before they
are
submitted. This does not mean that Peter Donahue does not have someone
sighted double check his web content before it goes live, but in both
examples, we are fully capable of assessing the work along the way so
that
we can set our own standards for what is working and what is not. I
agree
that there are partially sighted people who can enlarge the images to
make
their own evaluations, but then this becomes something of a dancing
target,
because what is sufficient vision and what is the proper magnification
tool?
I'm talking about people who cannot see at all or people who cannot see
well
enough to determine for themselves what is poor, what is better, and
what is
great. I would personally hate to always have to rely on what other
people
claim, because beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. This should
give
me a sufficient self of fulfillment, but I guess I'm too much of a
control
freak and would want to be able to independently gauge for myself that
this
photo was great and that photo was whack. Know what I mean? But, as I
clearly pointed out, I've never given the issue much thought, so I'm
willing
to learn.
Joe
?Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all.?--Sam Ewing?
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org?
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of loristay
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:03 PM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
What makes you think sighted people don't often ask for?
assistance from others, whether sighted or blind? ?No one is?
completely independent. ?That's the way of the world.
Lori
On Aug 8, 2010, at 11:38:31 PM, "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 8, 2010 11:38:31 PM EDT
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Dear all,
I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already?
been raised,
but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
product? This can't possibly be something one can independently measure
without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity,?
wouldn't a person
want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see?
that the topic
has been bounced about quite a bit already.
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up?
their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing?
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org?
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
stylist mailing list
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 13:59:27 -0400
From: Judith Bron <jbron at optonline.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <000301cb37ec$9c1766e0$3302a8c0 at dell5150>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=original
Some have a difficult time believing that a blind person can identify a?
goal, do what they need to reach it and bbe successful at it. Many of
these?
people feel better if we keep their roles as pitying folks standing on
the?
sidelines and cheering those who make our daily existance possible.
They?
forget that blind and otherwise handicapped people are first and
foremost?
people. As people we have the right to make our own dreams come true.
As?
for those other folks, who cares what they think? Judith
----- Original Message -----?
From: "loristay" <loristay at aol.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Amen, Pete.
Lori
On Aug 7, 2010, at 11:02:27 PM, "Peter Donahue"
<pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>?
wrote:
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 7, 2010 11:02:27 PM EDT
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Hello Elizabeth and everyone,
This reminds me of the reaction I got from some blind individuals I knew
in Massachusetts when discussing the possibility of blind persons
becoming
guide dog instructors. These same people often criticized me for working
as
a street musician rather than "being more gainfully employed." It was
their
attitude, their unwillingness to explore possibilities, and being
unsupportive of my dreams and life goals that put myself and a few
others on
the streets to begin with.
Not all of us are cut out to be writers or photographers but for God
sakes if a blind person chooses to become a guide dog trainer, a
photographer, a writer, or whatever let's support them and quit trying
to
steal their dreams! I sent a message similar to this one to the NABS
List
earlier this past week concerning a discussion of blind drivers. We're
federationists and our imaginative spirit and can-do attitude needs to
shine
through at all times.
Peter Donahue
----- Original Message -----?
From: "Elizabeth Sammons" <antigone at columbus.rr.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Hi, Robert and all others.
Yes, I'm in complete agreement that this is an interesting discussion,
and
of course, knowing us as writers and thinkers, the discussion could and
should be 100% civil. (Smile.) I simply find it a mockery, a caper that
either wishes to say "Look at me, I can do this, too," to attract
attention,
or else totally missing the idea of good photography. I know you did not
mean it this way, Robert, and while I agree that listening to a voice, a
bird song, etc., can help one to find the subject, the difference
between
capturing that subject on a picture and making it artistic is the
difference
between saying "Look, I know the alphabet and can write a punctuated
sentence!" and "Look what a fine sentence I just wrote, evoking the mind
and
spirit of my subject." I don't feel that people who are blind should put
themselves out to pursue something for the sake of pursuit rather than
to do
a good job any more than as I quoted "Beethoven's Nightmare" the deaf
group, they could call themselves quote real musicians end quote. For
the
record, I think they take themselves with a lot of irony, which makes
the
band at least marginally acceptable in my view.
Admittedly, I stand on the more radical edge of this field of thought,
but
I'm putting it out boldly for the sake of discussion. If anybody writes
something that makes me change my mind, I'll smile and let you know,
though
please note, I am not particularly trying to say here please change my
opinion on this matter.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth
_______________________________________________
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http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
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_______________________________________________
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<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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_______________________________________________
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<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 14:00:59 -0400
From: Judith Bron <jbron at optonline.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <000701cb37ec$d3244450$3302a8c0 at dell5150>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=original
Of course they do. The difference is they think their dependence on
others?
is "normal". If blind people want to snap a picture the action, in
their?
opinion, is abnormal. It's all in the perception of the action. Judith
----- Original Message -----?
From: "loristay" <loristay at aol.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
What makes you think sighted people don't often ask for assistance from?
others, whether sighted or blind? No one is completely independent.
That's?
the way of the world.
Lori
On Aug 8, 2010, at 11:38:31 PM, "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 8, 2010 11:38:31 PM EDT
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Dear all,
I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
product? This can't possibly be something one can independently measure
without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
has been bounced about quite a bit already.
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 13:43:22 -0500
From: Priscilla McKinley <priscilla.mckinley at gmail.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID:
<AANLkTikWurTEUL00+Sz6P8vDkQjQavO8AL1PXkHeu8tE at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I have been reading this discussion with interest. I know blind
photographers and artists, but their work is based on usable vision.
I was totally sighted for half of my life and I have been totally
blind for the second half of my life, and while I will take pictures
for family and friends, I would hire someone to take pictures if I
needed them for a professional writing assignment. After all, I'm a
writer, not a photographer. I would want the photographs to be the
best for a sighted audience, as most of my audience would be sighted.
Sighted people don't want pictures that are fair. They want
brilliance. And I'm not saying that blind people can't take brilliant
photographs, but if a person has no sight, it would be next to
impossible to know the lighting and so on.
This leads to the whole idea of a contest for blind photographers.
Isn't it more likely that someone with usable vision would do a better
job than someone without? After all, lighting is everything for
photography. I have to wonder if Dr. Jernigan would like such a
contest. If you haven't read it, perhaps you should listen to the
dishwashing tape where he explains that we are all equal as blind
people. Would a photography contest illustrate this? Or would it
cause a divide? If there was such a contest, wouldn't it make more
sense to put everyone under sleep shades, as Dr. Jernigan insisted
should be done in the traning centers so that we would be equal as
blind individuals?
Just my thoughts,
Priscilla
On 8/9/10, Judith Bron <jbron at optonline.net> wrote:
> Of course they do. The difference is they think their dependence on
others
> is "normal". If blind people want to snap a picture the action, in
their
> opinion, is abnormal. It's all in the perception of the action.
Judith
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "loristay" <loristay at aol.com>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
>
>
> What makes you think sighted people don't often ask for assistance
from
> others, whether sighted or blind? No one is completely independent.
That's
> the way of the world.
> Lori
> On Aug 8, 2010, at 11:38:31 PM, "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
> Date: August 8, 2010 11:38:31 PM EDT
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Dear all,
>
> I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
> but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
> product? This can't possibly be something one can independently
measure
> without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
> counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
> want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
> genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
> enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
> has been bounced about quite a bit already.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
>
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com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
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>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 13:53:45 -0500
From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <8C99E3E5EB974B02A6D84E409103A1E3 at RobertLesliePC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Brad, well written! what you wrote, was in general what I was meaning of
personal choice, doing it for me and not really caring how someone else
thought about it. and as I say, I'm mature enough, comfortable in my
blindness, that I don't need to prove anything to anyone.?
Robert Leslie Newman
President NFB Writers' division?
Writers' Division Website-
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
Personal Website-?
http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of BDM
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 11:55 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Since you asked about opinions Robert :). In response to someones recent
post. I too am not a nay sayer, optimistically an optimist :), and also
an
encourager and not complainer by nature. So the following comment is
meant
to be taken in that light. I don't quite understand the point of it
being a
mockery as a blind photographer, professional or just someone clicking
pics
for a visual journal of their own or loved one's lives. I agree with the
breaking news of fried potatoes thing, that's just folks exposing a lack
of
mature insight, or being able to actually think things passed the
shallow
threshold of being amazed we breathe on our own. But I'm not getting the
mockery thing or how could taking pics as a blind person really make us
happy or be enjoyable. I think it is a matter of the perspective of the
reasons "why" we do what we do. If I can take a picture and regardless
if
I'm blind or not, it makes one say, "What a cool shot that is, I've been
to
that place?" Or "That is just a cool sunset shot", and they enjoy it,
isn't
that what it is about? I write songs and perform them and yes I do like
the
process, I enjoy it for what it is, but what makes me write is to try
to
evoke some emotion in a listener, take them on a mini-emotional trip. I
know
there are people who sing better, play better, write better, entertain
better, just like they might center an object in a pic or what not
better
but that's OK with me. My drive as a writer is to let others enjoy or
feel.
They show their appreciation and I enjoy that in return. It isn't about
my
playing, writing or singing, its what it evokes from others that matters
to
me and drives me to continue. My wife is no photographer she basically
puts
whatever she's taking a picture of in the center of the screen and,
bam,
clicks it and its done. Yet she got really good composition comments
from a
professional photographer on one of her pics. She doesn't even know what
that is.
And I don't wish to beat this example to the ground as I'm sure we've
all
heard it a thousand times if even once, but it is relevant .?
The deaf musician who plays xylophone or whatever it is, in an
orchestra.
She in no way has the same enjoyment perspective as we do, but she
enjoys it
in her own way that matters to her and she's living the dream she wants
regardless. Isn't that what it is all about??
Probably more applicable are blind web designers, beats me how they do
it
but they are out there, I can't do it, but that isn't my dream either.
If we
wish to be seen as just people minus a label, we need to be secure in
ourselves enough to allow us to be who we are as well. There is much
more
to the picture than pressing a button, there's the people you get to
meet
while taking it, there is the vacation you are on, the triple story
house of
cards that is about to blow over if a flea jumps on it before you can
snap
its proof of existence... whatever. People want to do things because of
the
feeling it gives them, how are we to question the origin of that
feeling in
whatever they decide to use as a vehicle. *smile*.
Brad
_______________________________________________
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http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 13:58:32 -0500
From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Photography and Sighted Assistance
Message-ID: <67CA3F62CA6D47938988C8A9AFBDE534 at RobertLesliePC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Joe, After I take a batch of pictures, I always get my wife or a friend
to
check out what've got. I bet I delete eight picks for everyone that I
keep.
(I now have an IPhone and need to figure out how to get the pics off of
it.
Just haven't taken the time to work on it.)
Robert Leslie Newman
President NFB Writers' division?
Writers' Division Website-
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
Personal Website-?
http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Joe Orozco
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 12:21 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: [stylist] Photography and Sighted Assistance
Lori,
You misunderstand my point. I am not one of those hard core blind
people
who are opposed to sighted assistance by any means. My point is that
there
are a plethora of jobs where people can fulfill a job without the need
for
sighted people to double check the results. This is not to say that I
do
not have my supervisor eyeball my outbound grant proposals before they
are
submitted. This does not mean that Peter Donahue does not have someone
sighted double check his web content before it goes live, but in both
examples, we are fully capable of assessing the work along the way so
that
we can set our own standards for what is working and what is not. I
agree
that there are partially sighted people who can enlarge the images to
make
their own evaluations, but then this becomes something of a dancing
target,
because what is sufficient vision and what is the proper magnification
tool?
I'm talking about people who cannot see at all or people who cannot see
well
enough to determine for themselves what is poor, what is better, and
what is
great. I would personally hate to always have to rely on what other
people
claim, because beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. This should
give
me a sufficient self of fulfillment, but I guess I'm too much of a
control
freak and would want to be able to independently gauge for myself that
this
photo was great and that photo was whack. Know what I mean? But, as I
clearly pointed out, I've never given the issue much thought, so I'm
willing
to learn.
Joe
?Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all.?--Sam Ewing?
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of loristay
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:03 PM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
What makes you think sighted people don't often ask for assistance from
others, whether sighted or blind? ?No one is completely independent.
?That's
the way of the world.
Lori
On Aug 8, 2010, at 11:38:31 PM, "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 8, 2010 11:38:31 PM EDT
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org> Dear all,
I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
product? This can't possibly be something one can independently measure
without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
has been bounced about quite a bit already.
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing?
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org?
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 16:01:50 -0500
From: BDM <lists at braddunsemusic.com>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20100809155108.02a56188 at www.braddunsemusic.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Yep I agree. :) I am fortunate that pre-blindness and post, I've?
always been concerned with my own thoughts and provings rather than
others.
Brad
At 01:53 PM 8/9/2010, you wrote:
>Brad, well written! what you wrote, was in general what I was meaning
of
>personal choice, doing it for me and not really caring how someone else
>thought about it. and as I say, I'm mature enough, comfortable in my
>blindness, that I don't need to prove anything to anyone.
>
>
>
>Robert Leslie Newman
>President NFB Writers' division
>Writers' Division Website-
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>Personal Website-
>http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of BDM
>Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 11:55 AM
>To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
>
>Since you asked about opinions Robert :). In response to someones
recent
>post. I too am not a nay sayer, optimistically an optimist :), and also
an
>encourager and not complainer by nature. So the following comment is
meant
>to be taken in that light. I don't quite understand the point of it
being a
>mockery as a blind photographer, professional or just someone clicking
pics
>for a visual journal of their own or loved one's lives. I agree with
the
>breaking news of fried potatoes thing, that's just folks exposing a
lack of
>mature insight, or being able to actually think things passed the
shallow
>threshold of being amazed we breathe on our own. But I'm not getting
the
>mockery thing or how could taking pics as a blind person really make us
>happy or be enjoyable. I think it is a matter of the perspective of the
>reasons "why" we do what we do. If I can take a picture and regardless
if
>I'm blind or not, it makes one say, "What a cool shot that is, I've
been to
>that place?" Or "That is just a cool sunset shot", and they enjoy it,
isn't
>that what it is about? I write songs and perform them and yes I do
like the
>process, I enjoy it for what it is, but what makes me write is to try
to
>evoke some emotion in a listener, take them on a mini-emotional trip. I
know
>there are people who sing better, play better, write better, entertain
>better, just like they might center an object in a pic or what not
better
>but that's OK with me. My drive as a writer is to let others enjoy or
feel.
>They show their appreciation and I enjoy that in return. It isn't about
my
>playing, writing or singing, its what it evokes from others that
matters to
>me and drives me to continue. My wife is no photographer she basically
puts
>whatever she's taking a picture of in the center of the screen and,
bam,
>clicks it and its done. Yet she got really good composition comments
from a
>professional photographer on one of her pics. She doesn't even know
what
>that is.
>And I don't wish to beat this example to the ground as I'm sure we've
all
>heard it a thousand times if even once, but it is relevant .
>The deaf musician who plays xylophone or whatever it is, in an
orchestra.
>She in no way has the same enjoyment perspective as we do, but she
enjoys it
>in her own way that matters to her and she's living the dream she wants
>regardless. Isn't that what it is all about?
>Probably more applicable are blind web designers, beats me how they do
it
>but they are out there, I can't do it, but that isn't my dream either.
If we
>wish to be seen as just people minus a label, we need to be secure in
>ourselves enough to allow us to be who we are as well. There is much
more
>to the picture than pressing a button, there's the people you get to
meet
>while taking it, there is the vacation you are on, the triple story
house of
>cards that is about to blow over if a flea jumps on it before you can
snap
>its proof of existence... whatever. People want to do things because of
the
>feeling it gives them, how are we to question the origin of that
feeling in
>whatever they decide to use as a vehicle. *smile*.
>
>Brad
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Writers Division web site:
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
>stylist mailing list
>stylist at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>stylist:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40cox
.net
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Writers Division web site:
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
>stylist mailing list
>stylist at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/lists%40braddu
nsemusic.com
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus?
>signature database 5353 (20100809) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com
Brad Dunse
Success in life is a result of good judgment,
good judgment is a result of experience,
experience is a result of bad judgment
E Mail: brad at braddunsemusic.com
Website: http://www.braddunsemusic.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1464323555
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/braddunse
MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/braddunse
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 22:26:39 -0400
From: Chelsea Cook <astrochem119 at gmail.com>
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: [stylist] Chris Kuhl's July 4 Piece
Message-ID:
<AANLkTimwbo5qAKCDxmYqS_gVhDswqhpQmLy4OBGyOX5g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Chris,
I read your piece and absolutely loved the interplay of the different
holidays. The dialogue and characters were clever and interesting.
I've just been away at Orientation and vacation, so did not have much
time to post. But don't worry: I enjoyed your writing very much!
Please keep sharing!
Very busy preparing for college,
Chelsea Cook
--?
"I ask you to look both ways. For the road to a knowledge of the
stars leads through the atom; and important knowledge of the atom has
been reached through
the stars."
Sir Arthur Eddington, British astrophysicist (1882-1944), Stars and
Atoms (1928), Lecture 1
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 02:42:21 -0500
From: "Freeh, Jessica" <JFreeh at nfb.org> (by way of David Andrews
<dandrews at visi.com>)
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
Subject: [stylist] National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights of
Blind Students
Message-ID: <auto-000166292429 at mailfront1.g2host.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT:
Chris Danielsen
Director of Public Relations
National Federation of the Blind
(410) 659-9314, extension 2330
(410) 262-1281 (Cell)
<mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org>cdanielsen at nfb.org
National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights of Blind Students
Calls for Equal Access to Information and Technology in America?s
Universities
Baltimore, Maryland (August 9, 2010): The?
National Federation of the Blind (NFB) responded?
today to recent attacks on the right of blind?
students to have equal access to technologies?
used by America?s universities and to the?
textbooks and course materials offered by?
institutions of higher learning. The NFB and the?
United States Department of Justice, Civil Rights?
Division, have come under attack in recent days?
for reaching settlements with universities?
requiring that the universities refrain from?
purchasing any e-book technology that is not fully accessible to the
blind.
Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National?
Federation of the Blind, said: ?Blind students?
must have access to the same textbooks and course?
materials and the same technology to read them as?
all other students. This is not only a matter of?
fairness to blind students but a requirement of?
federal law. For this reason, we applaud the?
United States Department of Justice, acting at?
our request and pursuant to its mandate to?
enforce this nation?s disability rights laws, for?
reaching landmark settlements with colleges and?
universities ensuring that e-book technologies?
deployed by these institutions will be accessible?
to all their students. With the announcement of?
a new accessible Amazon Kindle, the recent?
introduction of the Apple iPad, and the promise?
of future accessible e-book products?many of?
which would not have been made accessible without?
our advocacy efforts?colleges and universities?
will find it increasingly easy to procure e-book?
technology that benefits everyone. These?
settlements benefit not only blind students, who?
will now have access to the same books at the?
same time and at the same price as their sighted?
peers, but also institutions of higher learning,?
which will no longer incur the administrative?
burden of producing or procuring accessible books?
through separate and inferior methods. To the?
extent that inaccessible e-book technology?
remains a barrier to the equal education of the?
blind, however, the National Federation of the?
Blind will continue to fight for the educational?
and legal rights of blind students, and we will?
not hesitate to call upon the Department of?
Justice and other government authorities to?
assist us in doing so when necessary.?
###
About the National Federation of the Blind
With more than 50,000 members, the National?
Federation of the Blind is the largest and most?
influential membership organization of blind?
people in the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns =?
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"?
/>United States. The NFB improves blind people?s?
lives through advocacy, education, research,?
technology, and programs encouraging independence?
and self-confidence. It is the leading force in?
the blindness field today and the voice of the?
nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened?
the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan?
Institute, the first research and training center?
in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:43:15 -0500
From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP24E319553B98F66A4DEBD3C4950 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jewel,
Most digital cameras have the facial recognization feature. I have an
Easy Share by Kodak and it does the facial or object identification.
I have a tip for taking pictures. I stand as close to what ever I am
trying to take a picture of possible then back up. It usually helps so
that I actually take a shot of what I want. Digital cameras are a
little different because they do not use a view finder, but have a
screen. I suggest taking time to get use to how the camera feels when
snapping a picture.
Anyway, I do not believe any cameras will just recognize a face just
because the camera is pointing in a direction. There still has to be a
focus, but this feature helps to stabilize the image.
Good luck finding a camera. There are so many!
Bridgit
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of stylist-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 12:00 PM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9
Send stylist mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of stylist digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Blindness and photography (Jewel S.)
2. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
3. Re: Writers Division member featured by Stanford University,
Center... (KajunCutie926 at aol.com)
4. Re: Blindness and photography (Robert Leslie Newman)
5. Re: Blindness and photography (Elizabeth Sammons)
6. Re: Blindness and photography (Joe Orozco)
7. Re: Blindness and photography (Jewel S.)
8. Re: Blindness and photography (Robert Leslie Newman)
9. Blindness, Photography, and Division Web Site (Peter Donahue)
10. Re: Blindness and photography (BDM)
11. Re: Blindness and photography (loristay)
12. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 12:59:51 -0400
From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID:
<AANLkTikMxTLAm0THw3xcuz385+6YB2Mr84ZccfORZ0ek at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Does anyone know the Blind Pohotographer Blog? It can be viewed at:
http://blog.blindphotographers.org/
I check this blog from time to time, because it is an interesting one.
Also, my boyfriend and I want to go over to a nearby photographer's
shop soon, to do a full review for my blog (Treasure Chest for the
Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com) about a camera that has
a "smile detector." The camera has a special feature that when a
person smiles, it takes the picture while focused ont that person. It
can be turned off, too, if you want to take a picture of someone who
isn't smiling (like a baby who is crying but is hilarious in his
temper). There is a facial identification focus as well that will let
you know when you are centered on a face. I have not tried thie camera
out, and don't remember its model name, but am hoping to get over
there to do a review on it soon. Anyone know about these features?
It's a digital camera, by the way.
My two cents on the topic,
Jewel
On 8/8/10, BDM <lists at braddunsemusic.com> wrote:
> There is nothing like following your dream, no matter what anyone
> else thinks. I am also a performing songwriter and part of PAD, I
> think Robert was asking earlier. I do a loose blog on my site
>
> http://www.braddunsemusic.com/blog.html
>
> basically a live spew of mostly unedited thoughts which recently I've
> done a couple thoughts on following dreams. One of which is in a
> monthly story behind the song which I confess why the gal in the song
> has two different colored shoes on, while some might assume its due
> to my vision loss, it was not as you'd read :). Some blind folks are
> so over sensitive to being pegged as stereotypes they miss what they
> are meant to do, or at least infringe on what others are meant to do.
> Foul ball. Just do what is in your heart and go for your dream no
> matter what anyone else thinks. Those that criticize with such
> claims, unknowingly expose their own insecurities, which may or may
> not have to do with their blindness. There are four bases and one
> chance to stand over the plate.
>
> Brad
>
> At 10:20 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
>>Peter,
>>Bless you. This is right on and well-stated. I too worked as a
>>streetsinger. I sang in Philadelphia's Suburban Station and at
>>Penn's Landing year-round for over 13 years. There were some people
>>who objected to that. Although there is a rich history of excellent
>>blind street musicians, apparently some blind people feel that it is
>>only OK to be a troubadour if you're sighted. Incidentally, my work
>>led to many non street jobs. In schools I actually got to talk about
>>blindness issues and help bridge the gap of misunderstanding and
>>fear in the sighted world. I also produced 3 albums, wrote a book
>>and was chosen as the subject of an independent film.
>>
>>I hope you are still pursuing your dream. Nobody blind or sighted
>>should be stepping on other people's dreams. When it happens within
>>the blindness community, it always reminds me how true it is that we
>>are just like everyone else -- in this case, that's a shame.
>>Donna
>>
>>Read Donna's articles on
>>Suite 101:
>>www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
>>American Chronicle:
>>www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>>
>>Connect with Donna on
>>Twitter:
>>www.twitter.com/dewhill
>>LinkedIn:
>>www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
>>FaceBook:
>>www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>>
>>Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
>>cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>>Apple I-Tunes
>>phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244
374
>>
>>Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
>>Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
>>Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
>>www.padnfb.org
>>
>>
>>On 8/7/2010 11:02 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
>>>Hello Elizabeth and everyone,
>>>
>>> This reminds me of the reaction I got from some blind
>>> individuals I knew
>>>in Massachusetts when discussing the possibility of blind persons
becoming
>>>guide dog instructors. These same people often criticized me for
working
>>> as
>>>a street musician rather than "being more gainfully employed." It was
>>> their
>>>attitude, their unwillingness to explore possibilities, and being
>>>unsupportive of my dreams and life goals that put myself and a few
others
>>> on
>>>the streets to begin with.
>>>
>>> Not all of us are cut out to be writers or photographers but
for God
>>>sakes if a blind person chooses to become a guide dog trainer, a
>>>photographer, a writer, or whatever let's support them and quit
trying to
>>>steal their dreams! I sent a message similar to this one to the NABS
List
>>>earlier this past week concerning a discussion of blind drivers.
We're
>>>federationists and our imaginative spirit and can-do attitude needs
to
>>> shine
>>>through at all times.
>>>
>>>Peter Donahue
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Elizabeth Sammons"<antigone at columbus.rr.com>
>>>To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:12 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi, Robert and all others.
>>>
>>>Yes, I'm in complete agreement that this is an interesting
discussion, and
>>>of course, knowing us as writers and thinkers, the discussion could
and
>>>should be 100% civil. (Smile.) I simply find it a mockery, a caper
that
>>>either wishes to say "Look at me, I can do this, too," to attract
>>> attention,
>>>or else totally missing the idea of good photography. I know you did
not
>>>mean it this way, Robert, and while I agree that listening to a
voice, a
>>>bird song, etc., can help one to find the subject, the difference
between
>>>capturing that subject on a picture and making it artistic is the
>>> difference
>>>between saying "Look, I know the alphabet and can write a punctuated
>>>sentence!" and "Look what a fine sentence I just wrote, evoking the
mind
>>> and
>>>spirit of my subject." I don't feel that people who are blind should
put
>>>themselves out to pursue something for the sake of pursuit rather
than to
>>> do
>>>a good job any more than as I quoted "Beethoven's Nightmare" the deaf
>>>group, they could call themselves quote real musicians end quote. For
the
>>>record, I think they take themselves with a lot of irony, which makes
the
>>>band at least marginally acceptable in my view.
>>>
>>>Admittedly, I stand on the more radical edge of this field of
thought, but
>>>I'm putting it out boldly for the sake of discussion. If anybody
writes
>>>something that makes me change my mind, I'll smile and let you know,
>>> though
>>>please note, I am not particularly trying to say here please change
my
>>>opinion on this matter.
>>>
>>>
>>>Sincerely,
>>>Elizabeth
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Writers Division web site:
>>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.o
rg/>
>>>
>>>stylist mailing list
>>>stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>stylist:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40
sbcglobal.net
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Writers Division web site:
>>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.o
rg/>
>>>
>>>stylist mailing list
>>>stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for stylist:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40
epix.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>_______________________________________________
>>Writers Division web site:
>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>>stylist mailing list
>>stylist at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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unsemusic.com
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>
>
> Brad Dunse
>
> Music is the only language in which you cannot say a mean or sarcastic
thing
>
> E Mail: brad at braddunsemusic.com
>
> Website: http://www.braddunsemusic.com
>
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1464323555
>
> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/braddunse
>
> MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/braddunse
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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0gmail.com
>
--?
~Jewel
Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 13:09:44 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <4C5EE4D8.3070101 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Shelley,
When I was taking pictures, the light/shadow experience was a huge deal?
for my nature shots especially. Still, I don't think sight is necessary?
in all cases. Glad to hear you include photos. We're not all cut out to?
take them, but it's important to realize the profound impact they can?
have on sighted people. We need every tool we can find.
Donna
Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4
Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org
On 8/7/2010 1:13 AM, Shelley J. Alongi wrote:
> This is very very cool. A lot of times good photographs have to do?
> with the light and its affects on surroundings and if a blind person?
> can get a sense of how light reacts to surroundings and pick up clues?
> I am sure it can be done. I have done many presentations not?
> necerssarily for writings in which photography was a part of the?
> picture. If you read fashion or home decorating magazines at all?
> you'll notice a great emphasis on different kinds of light. It's all?
> very logical and interesting. This works into photographs. I've always
> been one to leave the photographing to others as I have my hands very?
> full at any given moment but as a blind person I've never left it out?
> of my work. It is part of what makes experiences for all kinds of?
> people enjoyable. Go for it!
> Shelley J. Alongi
> Independent Consultant with The Pampered Chef
> Consultant#628861
> Home Office: (714)869-3207
> Why You Should Start Your Own business with the Pampered Chef:?
> 630-261-3537
> **
> NFBWD "Slate and Style" editor
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> **railroading, planes, romance,
> click on?
>
http://www.storymania.com/cgibin/sm2/smshowauthorbox.cgi?page=&author=Al
ongiSJ&alpha=A?
>
> updated July 14, 2010
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Leslie Newman"?
> <newmanrl at cox.net>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 10:24 AM
> Subject: [stylist] Blindness and photography
>
>
>> Hey STYLIST members, here is an interesting site to check out. It's
not
>> about writing, but it deals with an skill that is often associated
with
>> writing (like in the news paper or books, etc.)
>>
>> Blind With Camera School of Photography is a virtual school with
>> step-by-step tutorials for the visually impaired to get started with
>> photography and guidance to sighted photographers for starting?
>> photographic
>> workshops with local visually impaired people.
>>
>>
>>
<http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1103601039185&s=3910&e=001PsgFa0OJYOsU6mli
68as?
>>
>>
FX7oGcOcZRAqA-mEOYBq2vk334oeaLxtCx-GpDgMf2vU3FbXtJyE1cQ4lsJK8cvdmXLbW68n
uq80?
>>
>> INGrImyzskNBaClBHACQhKfKyTWq2GPy>
http://www.blindwithcameraschool.org
>>
>> Robert Leslie Newman
>> President NFB Writers' division
>> Writers' Division Website-
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org?
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>> Personal Website-
>> http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org?
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/qobells%40roadr
unner.com?
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org?
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for?
> stylist:
>
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x.net?
>
>
>
>
>
> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
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E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 13:26:48 EDT
From: KajunCutie926 at aol.com
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [stylist] Writers Division member featured by Stanford
University, Center...
Message-ID: <b01ca.77a1cfe5.399042d8 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Indeed.. huge congrats Donna!!
In a message dated 8/8/2010 11:20:07 A.M. Central Daylight Time,?
lists at braddunsemusic.com writes:
Indeed congrats Donna!
Brad
At 11:07 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
>Donna
>
>this is great news! You are indeed deserving of being honored for the
>widespread coverage that you do with your writings. We within the
Writers'
>Division, as being authors who happen to be blind, and no matter if it
is
>blindness issues we concentrate on, or not, we all are working to
change
>what it means to be blind, and though recognition for our work is
seldom
>given, it is a great feel when it happens.
>
>So keep up the good work!
>
>(All this goes for our sighted members, too; you are one of us.)
>
>
>Robert Leslie Newman
>President NFB Writers' division
>Writers' Division Website-
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>Personal Website-
>http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
>Behalf Of Donna Hill
>Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 8:34 AM
>To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>Subject: [stylist] Writers Division member featured by Stanford?
University,
>Center for Social Innovation
>
>Hi Friends, <http://www.stanford.edu/>
>I have received a great honor which has led to publicity for the NFB
and?
for
>blindness issues. I was chosen as the 2nd "Third Sector Grit"
>profile for Stanford University. "Donna Hill: A Profile in Third
Sector
>Grit" (July 23, 2010), by John Brothers has just been published by?
Stanford
>University, <http://www.stanford.edu/> Graduate School of Business,
><http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/> Center for Social Innovation
>at: <http://csi.gsb.stanford.edu>
>
>http://www.ssireview.org/opinion/entry/donna_hill_a_profile_in_third_se
ctor
_
>grit/
>
>The project profiles people who are making a difference in nonprofits
>
>Enjoy and please pass along,
>Donna Hill
>
>
>--
>Read Donna's articles on
>Suite 101:
>www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
>American Chronicle:
>www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>
>Connect with Donna on
>Twitter:
>www.twitter.com/dewhill
>LinkedIn:
>www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
>FaceBook:
>www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>
>Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
>cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>Apple I-Tunes
>phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=2592443
74
>
>Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project Donna is Head of Media?
Relations
>for the nonprofit Performing Arts Division of the National Federation
of?
the
>Blind:
>www.padnfb.org
>
>
>
>
>
>E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514) Database version:
>6.15510 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>_______________________________________________
>Writers Division web site:
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
>stylist mailing list
>stylist at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>stylist:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40cox
.net
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Writers Division web site:
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
>stylist mailing list
>stylist at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/lists%40braddu
nsem
usic.com
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus?
>signature database 5349 (20100807) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com
Brad Dunse
This world is but a canvas to our imaginations
E Mail: brad at braddunsemusic.com
Website: http://www.braddunsemusic.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1464323555
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/braddunse
MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/braddunse
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
stylist mailing list
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for?
stylist:
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0aol
.com
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 19:47:37 -0500
From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <45E1939B69E346EC9B423371B9E8AE9A at RobertLesliePC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Elizabeth
Hmm, on the specific issue of some blind folks getting into --- showing
off,
like doing something just to prove that they can do something --- well,
personally, I'm past that stage of -- call that sort of thing as
"acceptance," by the blind person themselves or the blind guy's attempt
to
get the sighted world to accept him/her.?
So as for my part of this discussion, it is more along the line of
knowing
that some of us blind folks can take photos and get some that are
acceptable
and may get some that would be considered as being very good, too. (Not
all
sighted folks can take a good photo, either.)?
thus, in general, my initial response to your email was a --- matter of
seeking out where you were coming from and equally , as I would do with
any
questionable comment by whomever about the abilities of a blind person,
I
wanted to counter what you were seeming to be saying; as it were, you
took
the glass as being half empty and I was saying it was half full.
Robert Leslie Newman
President NFB Writers' division?
Writers' Division Website-
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
Personal Website-?
http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Elizabeth Sammons
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:12 AM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Hi, Robert and all others.
Yes, I'm in complete agreement that this is an interesting discussion,
and
of course, knowing us as writers and thinkers, the discussion could and
should be 100% civil. (Smile.) I simply find it a mockery, a caper that
either wishes to say "Look at me, I can do this, too," to attract
attention,
or else totally missing the idea of good photography. I know you did not
mean it this way, Robert, and while I agree that listening to a voice, a
bird song, etc., can help one to find the subject, the difference
between
capturing that subject on a picture and making it artistic is the
difference
between saying "Look, I know the alphabet and can write a punctuated
sentence!" and "Look what a fine sentence I just wrote, evoking the mind
and
spirit of my subject." I don't feel that people who are blind should put
themselves out to pursue something for the sake of pursuit rather than
to do
a good job any more than as I quoted "Beethoven's Nightmare" the deaf
group,
they could call themselves quote real musicians end quote. For the
record, I
think they take themselves with a lot of irony, which makes the band at
least marginally acceptable in my view.?
Admittedly, I stand on the more radical edge of this field of thought,
but
I'm putting it out boldly for the sake of discussion. If anybody writes
something that makes me change my mind, I'll smile and let you know,
though
please note, I am not particularly trying to say here please change my
opinion on this matter.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
stylist mailing list
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net
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 21:17:27 -0400
From: "Elizabeth Sammons" <antigone at columbus.rr.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <77.D9.24046.B275F5C4 at hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Colleagues,
Well, I am glad that the subject of blindness and photography, or as I
might
call it blindness versus photography, is getting a lot of reaction.
Folks
here do not know me, but perhaps you will trust me that in general, I am
very far from being a ney sayer both in my personal life and in my
career.
As I dig into my own thoughts, here's what is eating at me when I
consider
the subject of blind camera people and photographs. Photography, I think
you
will agree with me, is by its very essence a matter of vision and view.
Blindness by its essence is the matter of having lost or never having
had
that very vision or view. This is why it still seems to me a mockery to
try
to combine the two, water and oil. And even if the effort is made, I
don't
get the point or the happiness of doing something along this line.?
I am appreciative of some of the reasoning raised such as wanting to
leave a
visual record to one's children, wanting to see if one can simply
capture a
subject in the frame, etc.. But even in the best scenario, say, the
subject
is captured successfully, I am reminded of a news subject that I saw
while
living in Russia about a young man who was blind and who fried his own
potatoes for dinner. So what? So does everybody else. So what's the
newsworthiness in that? Similarly I would say that there is nothing
praiseworthy in someone who is blind taking a picture beyond perhaps
some
desire to try a new thing, since it is a thing that anybody else can do.
Note, I am not talking here about the artistry of the photo... that is a
completely different matter which I addressed earlier.
Anyhow, here's to the diversity of opinion such groups support, and
thanks
for making me think on this issue a bit more deeply than prior to this
discussion.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 23:38:31 -0400
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <6C607955DD654D6B9411E5FE8087A065 at Rufus>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear all,
I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
product? This can't possibly be something one can independently measure
without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
has been bounced about quite a bit already.
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing?
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 03:29:05 -0400
From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID:
<AANLkTi=P0mp2vYOfs=Xxjv9zJwBus50FqeXzLyzerUvp at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
The way I see it, many blind people are not totally blind. Quite a few
have some sort of usable vision. My boyfriend is one such example, as
am I. He has enough vision that he can use a CCTV to read things. We
found that using the handheld CCTV (Amigo), he could freeze the screen
over an object to take a "picture" of it, then magnify it and put it
on the TV if necessary to be able to see it. I think having a digital
camera and a large screen TV would be really great for him, because
then he would be able to see things that are quite small normally, but
he could blow it up to a size wher he could see it (for example, a
pretty bouquet of crepe myrtle flowers or the painting on a decorative
plate.
I have heard of some blind photographers doing so for the simple
reason of magnifying the picture to be able to see the faces of family
and friends. I know my boyfriend would be able to do this. I really
would give near anything to be able to do the same. Sadly, my vision
is not good enough for that.
At this point, my vision is almost exclusively light and colour
perception. However, as I can see colour, a high contrast image is
still something of a beauty to me. As an example, there is a blind
painter in Texas who did a painting called Eyes. It is purely black
and white, and very high contrast. It is very lovely to my eyes, if
magnifyed gratly.
For myself, I would love to be able to take pictures to share my life
with ffamily that I do not see often. Most of my family is in
Lousiana, and others are in Arkansas, South Dakota, Texas, and
overseas. I do not get to see them often, and they have not seen any
pictures of me in several years. I would love to be able to take
pictures of myself and things in my life (like my cat when she is in
one of her silly poses, or my boyfriend asleep with his dog laying
across his chest with a cute look on his face) to send to my family
and friends. Just because I am blind doesn't mean I don't understand
the importance of sharing images from my life with my sighted family
and friends. I know pictures are important to sighted people, having
been one myself for 23 years, and I wish to share images from my own
life with others.
My two cents,
Jewel
On 8/8/10, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
> but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of their
> product? This can't possibly be something one can independently
measure
> without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
> counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
> want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
> genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
> enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
> has been bounced about quite a bit already.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%4
0gmail.com
>
--?
~Jewel
Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 09:59:14 -0500
From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <1D0F972DFCFE4015BC1024CD7DE6151B at RobertLesliePC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Elizabeth?
This discussion, if anything has allowed me/us to get to know you
better;
your take on blindness, your perception on societal reactions/acceptance
to
us, and more. And, I know that on these very complex facets of your ---
or
for any of us who have been revealing our personal philosophies, we have
been privileged to share only the proverbial "tip of the iceberg."?
And so after reading your latest message, what I'm feeling/thinking this
morning is that we are talking along the same lines of thought and, at
least
I am feeling we are --- let's see --- that more than anything, we are
sharing what could be seen as a "personal choice thing." that
bottom-line,
we are in agreement that a blind guy can do most things (those things
that
we have an interest in and some talent for) which can include
photography.
Secondly, that yes, we jointly agree that with the very nature of
"photography" being a visual art/thing, that there are issues a blind
guy
would need to address to make it work.?
And so, I appreciate that you've been upfront with sharing your take and
choice.?
(Anyone else? How do you see this?)
Robert Leslie Newman
President NFB Writers' division?
Writers' Division Website-
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
Personal Website-?
http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Elizabeth Sammons
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 8:17 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Colleagues,
Well, I am glad that the subject of blindness and photography, or as I
might
call it blindness versus photography, is getting a lot of reaction.
Folks
here do not know me, but perhaps you will trust me that in general, I am
very far from being a ney sayer both in my personal life and in my
career.
As I dig into my own thoughts, here's what is eating at me when I
consider
the subject of blind camera people and photographs. Photography, I think
you
will agree with me, is by its very essence a matter of vision and view.
Blindness by its essence is the matter of having lost or never having
had
that very vision or view. This is why it still seems to me a mockery to
try
to combine the two, water and oil. And even if the effort is made, I
don't
get the point or the happiness of doing something along this line.?
I am appreciative of some of the reasoning raised such as wanting to
leave a
visual record to one's children, wanting to see if one can simply
capture a
subject in the frame, etc.. But even in the best scenario, say, the
subject
is captured successfully, I am reminded of a news subject that I saw
while
living in Russia about a young man who was blind and who fried his own
potatoes for dinner. So what? So does everybody else. So what's the
newsworthiness in that? Similarly I would say that there is nothing
praiseworthy in someone who is blind taking a picture beyond perhaps
some
desire to try a new thing, since it is a thing that anybody else can do.
Note, I am not talking here about the artistry of the photo... that is a
completely different matter which I addressed earlier.
Anyhow, here's to the diversity of opinion such groups support, and
thanks
for making me think on this issue a bit more deeply than prior to this
discussion.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40cox.
net
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 10:45:59 -0500
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [stylist] Blindness, Photography, and Division Web Site
Message-ID: <00e701cb37d9$f7cc8dc0$4001a8c0 at yourfsyly0jtwn>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Good morning everyone,
With all of the discussion of the blind and photography our division
Web?
site is a wonderful place to showcase the talents of budding blind?
photographers. If you take pictures that would complement your story and
send it along with a discription of the photo these would be a great way
to?
spruce up our division Web site. One of our affiliates had some pictures
taken by several of its blind members on its Web site. I had a sighted?
person check all site photos before the pages in question went live. All
pictures including those taken by the blind people were excelent. Hence
I?
want to suggest that if anyone has taken pictures that would complement
an?
article or a story these would be great to post on the division Web
site.
The only thing I ask is that you include a description of what's
being?
shown in the photograph along with the photo file attachment. It is this
discription that it used as the alt text to describe the images. Happy?
picture taking.
Peter Donahyue
Webmaster, National Federation of the Blind Writers' Division
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 11:55:05 -0500
From: BDM <lists at braddunsemusic.com>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20100809105401.02a2d7c0 at www.braddunsemusic.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Since you asked about opinions Robert :). In response to someones?
recent post. I too am not a nay sayer, optimistically an optimist :),?
and also an encourager and not complainer by nature. So the?
following comment is meant to be taken in that light. I don't quite?
understand the point of it being a mockery as a blind photographer,?
professional or just someone clicking pics for a visual journal of?
their own or loved one's lives. I agree with the breaking news of?
fried potatoes thing, that's just folks exposing a lack of mature?
insight, or being able to actually think things passed the shallow?
threshold of being amazed we breathe on our own. But I'm not getting?
the mockery thing or how could taking pics as a blind person really?
make us happy or be enjoyable. I think it is a matter of the?
perspective of the reasons "why" we do what we do. If I can take a?
picture and regardless if I'm blind or not, it makes one say, "What a?
cool shot that is, I've been to that place?" Or "That is just a cool?
sunset shot", and they enjoy it, isn't that what it is about? I?
write songs and perform them and yes I do like the process, I enjoy?
it for what it is, but what makes me write is to try to evoke some?
emotion in a listener, take them on a mini-emotional trip. I know?
there are people who sing better, play better, write?
better, entertain better, just like they might center an object?
in a pic or what not better but that's OK with me. My drive as a?
writer is to let others enjoy or feel. They show their appreciation?
and I enjoy that in return. It isn't about my playing, writing or?
singing, its what it evokes from others that matters to me and drives?
me to continue. My wife is no photographer she basically puts?
whatever she's taking a picture of in the center of the screen and,?
bam, clicks it and its done. Yet she got really good composition?
comments from a professional photographer on one of her pics. She?
doesn't even know what that is.
And I don't wish to beat this example to the ground as I'm sure we've?
all heard it a thousand times if even once, but it is relevant .?
The deaf musician who plays xylophone or whatever it is, in an?
orchestra. She in no way has the same enjoyment perspective as we do,?
but she enjoys it in her own way that matters to her and she's living?
the dream she wants regardless. Isn't that what it is all about??
Probably more applicable are blind web designers, beats me how they?
do it but they are out there, I can't do it, but that isn't my dream?
either. If we wish to be seen as just people minus a label, we need?
to be secure in ourselves enough to allow us to be who we are as?
well. There is much more to the picture than pressing a button,?
there's the people you get to meet while taking it, there is the?
vacation you are on, the triple story house of cards that is about to?
blow over if a flea jumps on it before you can snap its proof of?
existence... whatever. People want to do things because of the?
feeling it gives them, how are we to question the origin of that?
feeling in whatever they decide to use as a vehicle. *smile*.
Brad
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 12:56:23 -0400
From: loristay <loristay at aol.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <CA2D3D2A.2B78.4F05.B4A5.B3A82B993C39 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Amen, Pete.
Lori
On Aug 7, 2010, at 11:02:27 PM, "Peter Donahue"
<pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Date: August 7, 2010 11:02:27 PM EDT
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Hello Elizabeth and everyone,
This reminds me of the reaction I got from some blind individuals I
knew?
in Massachusetts when discussing the possibility of blind persons
becoming?
guide dog instructors. These same people often criticized me for working
as?
a street musician rather than "being more gainfully employed." It was
their?
attitude, their unwillingness to explore possibilities, and being?
unsupportive of my dreams and life goals that put myself and a few
others on?
the streets to begin with.
Not all of us are cut out to be writers or photographers but for God?
sakes if a blind person chooses to become a guide dog trainer, a?
photographer, a writer, or whatever let's support them and quit trying
to?
steal their dreams! I sent a message similar to this one to the NABS
List?
earlier this past week concerning a discussion of blind drivers. We're?
federationists and our imaginative spirit and can-do attitude needs to
shine?
through at all times.
Peter Donahue
----- Original Message -----?
From: "Elizabeth Sammons" <antigone at columbus.rr.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Hi, Robert and all others.
Yes, I'm in complete agreement that this is an interesting discussion,
and
of course, knowing us as writers and thinkers, the discussion could and
should be 100% civil. (Smile.) I simply find it a mockery, a caper that
either wishes to say "Look at me, I can do this, too," to attract
attention,
or else totally missing the idea of good photography. I know you did not
mean it this way, Robert, and while I agree that listening to a voice, a
bird song, etc., can help one to find the subject, the difference
between
capturing that subject on a picture and making it artistic is the
difference
between saying "Look, I know the alphabet and can write a punctuated
sentence!" and "Look what a fine sentence I just wrote, evoking the mind
and
spirit of my subject." I don't feel that people who are blind should put
themselves out to pursue something for the sake of pursuit rather than
to do
a good job any more than as I quoted "Beethoven's Nightmare" the deaf
group, they could call themselves quote real musicians end quote. For
the
record, I think they take themselves with a lot of irony, which makes
the
band at least marginally acceptable in my view.
Admittedly, I stand on the more radical edge of this field of thought,
but
I'm putting it out boldly for the sake of discussion. If anybody writes
something that makes me change my mind, I'll smile and let you know,
though
please note, I am not particularly trying to say here please change my
opinion on this matter.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
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stylist:
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global.net?
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
stylist mailing list
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------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 12:57:27 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
Message-ID: <4C603377.2020506 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Right on Jewel. Donna
Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4
Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org
On 8/9/2010 3:29 AM, Jewel S. wrote:
> The way I see it, many blind people are not totally blind. Quite a few
> have some sort of usable vision. My boyfriend is one such example, as
> am I. He has enough vision that he can use a CCTV to read things. We
> found that using the handheld CCTV (Amigo), he could freeze the screen
> over an object to take a "picture" of it, then magnify it and put it
> on the TV if necessary to be able to see it. I think having a digital
> camera and a large screen TV would be really great for him, because
> then he would be able to see things that are quite small normally, but
> he could blow it up to a size wher he could see it (for example, a
> pretty bouquet of crepe myrtle flowers or the painting on a decorative
> plate.
>
> I have heard of some blind photographers doing so for the simple
> reason of magnifying the picture to be able to see the faces of family
> and friends. I know my boyfriend would be able to do this. I really
> would give near anything to be able to do the same. Sadly, my vision
> is not good enough for that.
>
> At this point, my vision is almost exclusively light and colour
> perception. However, as I can see colour, a high contrast image is
> still something of a beauty to me. As an example, there is a blind
> painter in Texas who did a painting called Eyes. It is purely black
> and white, and very high contrast. It is very lovely to my eyes, if
> magnifyed gratly.
>
> For myself, I would love to be able to take pictures to share my life
> with ffamily that I do not see often. Most of my family is in
> Lousiana, and others are in Arkansas, South Dakota, Texas, and
> overseas. I do not get to see them often, and they have not seen any
> pictures of me in several years. I would love to be able to take
> pictures of myself and things in my life (like my cat when she is in
> one of her silly poses, or my boyfriend asleep with his dog laying
> across his chest with a cute look on his face) to send to my family
> and friends. Just because I am blind doesn't mean I don't understand
> the importance of sharing images from my life with my sighted family
> and friends. I know pictures are important to sighted people, having
> been one myself for 23 years, and I wish to share images from my own
> life with others.
>
> My two cents,
> Jewel
>
> On 8/8/10, Joe Orozco<jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
>?
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I haven't followed this thread. Forgive me if this has already been
raised,
>> but how exactly do blind people know how to gauge the quality of
their
>> product? This can't possibly be something one can independently
measure
>> without sighted assistance, and at that point, doesn't it become
>> counterproductive? If pictures are taken for posterity, wouldn't a
person
>> want that to be preserved at its best? I'm not bashing it, because I
>> genuinely don't know how blind people would do it. I'm open to
>> enlightenment, though I'm scanning through my e-mail and see that the
topic
>> has been bounced about quite a bit already.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>>
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/
>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%4
0gmail.com
>>
>>?
>
>?
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End of stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9
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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:50:55 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9
Message-ID: <4C61836F.20605 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi Bridget and all,
My husband has a digital camera with a view finder, so they're not all?
screens, though his is a bit more expensive.
Donna
Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4
Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org
On 8/10/2010 12:43 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote:
> Jewel,
>
> Most digital cameras have the facial recognization feature. I have an
> Easy Share by Kodak and it does the facial or object identification.
>
> I have a tip for taking pictures. I stand as close to what ever I am
> trying to take a picture of possible then back up. It usually helps
so
> that I actually take a shot of what I want. Digital cameras are a
> little different because they do not use a view finder, but have a
> screen. I suggest taking time to get use to how the camera feels when
> snapping a picture.
>
> Anyway, I do not believe any cameras will just recognize a face just
> because the camera is pointing in a direction. There still has to be
a
> focus, but this feature helps to stabilize the image.
>
> Good luck finding a camera. There are so many!
>
> Bridgit
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
> Behalf Of stylist-request at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 12:00 PM
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 9
>
> Send stylist mailing list submissions to
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>
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>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Blindness and photography (Jewel S.)
> 2. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
> 3. Re: Writers Division member featured by Stanford
University,
> Center... (KajunCutie926 at aol.com)
> 4. Re: Blindness and photography (Robert Leslie Newman)
> 5. Re: Blindness and photography (Elizabeth Sammons)
> 6. Re: Blindness and photography (Joe Orozco)
> 7. Re: Blindness and photography (Jewel S.)
> 8. Re: Blindness and photography (Robert Leslie Newman)
> 9. Blindness, Photography, and Division Web Site (Peter Donahue)
> 10. Re: Blindness and photography (BDM)
> 11. Re: Blindness and photography (loristay)
> 12. Re: Blindness and photography (Donna Hill)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 12:59:51 -0400
> From: "Jewel S."<herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTikMxTLAm0THw3xcuz385+6YB2Mr84ZccfORZ0ek at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Does anyone know the Blind Pohotographer Blog? It can be viewed at:
> http://blog.blindphotographers.org/
>
> I check this blog from time to time, because it is an interesting one.
>
> Also, my boyfriend and I want to go over to a nearby photographer's
> shop soon, to do a full review for my blog (Treasure Chest for the
> Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com) about a camera that has
> a "smile detector." The camera has a special feature that when a
> person smiles, it takes the picture while focused ont that person. It
> can be turned off, too, if you want to take a picture of someone who
> isn't smiling (like a baby who is crying but is hilarious in his
> temper). There is a facial identification focus as well that will let
> you know when you are centered on a face. I have not tried thie camera
> out, and don't remember its model name, but am hoping to get over
> there to do a review on it soon. Anyone know about these features?
> It's a digital camera, by the way.
>
> My two cents on the topic,
> Jewel
>
> On 8/8/10, BDM<lists at braddunsemusic.com> wrote:
>?
>> There is nothing like following your dream, no matter what anyone
>> else thinks. I am also a performing songwriter and part of PAD, I
>> think Robert was asking earlier. I do a loose blog on my site
>>
>> http://www.braddunsemusic.com/blog.html
>>
>> basically a live spew of mostly unedited thoughts which recently I've
>> done a couple thoughts on following dreams. One of which is in a
>> monthly story behind the song which I confess why the gal in the song
>> has two different colored shoes on, while some might assume its due
>> to my vision loss, it was not as you'd read :). Some blind folks are
>> so over sensitive to being pegged as stereotypes they miss what they
>> are meant to do, or at least infringe on what others are meant to do.
>> Foul ball. Just do what is in your heart and go for your dream no
>> matter what anyone else thinks. Those that criticize with such
>> claims, unknowingly expose their own insecurities, which may or may
>> not have to do with their blindness. There are four bases and one
>> chance to stand over the plate.
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> At 10:20 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
>>?
>>> Peter,
>>> Bless you. This is right on and well-stated. I too worked as a
>>> streetsinger. I sang in Philadelphia's Suburban Station and at
>>> Penn's Landing year-round for over 13 years. There were some people
>>> who objected to that. Although there is a rich history of excellent
>>> blind street musicians, apparently some blind people feel that it is
>>> only OK to be a troubadour if you're sighted. Incidentally, my work
>>> led to many non street jobs. In schools I actually got to talk about
>>> blindness issues and help bridge the gap of misunderstanding and
>>> fear in the sighted world. I also produced 3 albums, wrote a book
>>> and was chosen as the subject of an independent film.
>>>
>>> I hope you are still pursuing your dream. Nobody blind or sighted
>>> should be stepping on other people's dreams. When it happens within
>>> the blindness community, it always reminds me how true it is that we
>>> are just like everyone else -- in this case, that's a shame.
>>> Donna
>>>
>>> Read Donna's articles on
>>> Suite 101:
>>> www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
>>> American Chronicle:
>>> www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>>>
>>> Connect with Donna on
>>> Twitter:
>>> www.twitter.com/dewhill
>>> LinkedIn:
>>> www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
>>> FaceBook:
>>> www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>>>
>>> Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
>>> cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>>> Apple I-Tunes
>>>
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244
>>>?
> 374
>?
>>> Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
>>> Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
>>> Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
>>> www.padnfb.org
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/7/2010 11:02 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
>>>?
>>>> Hello Elizabeth and everyone,
>>>>
>>>> This reminds me of the reaction I got from some blind
>>>> individuals I knew
>>>> in Massachusetts when discussing the possibility of blind persons
>>>>?
> becoming
>?
>>>> guide dog instructors. These same people often criticized me for
>>>>?
> working
>?
>>>> as
>>>> a street musician rather than "being more gainfully employed." It
was
>>>> their
>>>> attitude, their unwillingness to explore possibilities, and being
>>>> unsupportive of my dreams and life goals that put myself and a few
>>>>?
> others
>?
>>>> on
>>>> the streets to begin with.
>>>>
>>>> Not all of us are cut out to be writers or photographers but
>>>>?
> for God
>?
>>>> sakes if a blind person chooses to become a guide dog trainer, a
>>>> photographer, a writer, or whatever let's support them and quit
>>>>?
> trying to
>?
>>>> steal their dreams! I sent a message similar to this one to the
NABS
>>>>?
> List
>?
>>>> earlier this past week concerning a discussion of blind drivers.
>>>>?
> We're
>?
>>>> federationists and our imaginative spirit and can-do attitude needs
>>>>?
> to
>?
>>>> shine
>>>> through at all times.
>>>>
>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Elizabeth Sammons"<antigone at columbus.rr.com>
>>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'"<stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:12 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Blindness and photography
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi, Robert and all others.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I'm in complete agreement that this is an interesting
>>>>?
> discussion, and
>?
>>>> of course, knowing us as writers and thinkers, the discussion could
>>>>?
> and
>?
>>>> should be 100% civil. (Smile.) I simply find it a mockery, a caper
>>>>?
> that
>?
>>>> either wishes to say "Look at me, I can do this, too," to attract
>>>> attention,
>>>> or else totally missing the idea of good photography. I know you
did
>>>>?
> not
>?
>>>> mean it this way, Robert, and while I agree that listening to a
>>>>?
> voice, a
>?
>>>> bird song, etc., can help one to find the subject, the difference
>>>>?
> between
>?
>>>> capturing that subject on a picture and making it artistic is the
>>>> difference
>>>> between saying "Look, I know the alphabet and can write a
punctuated
>>>> sentence!" and "Look what a fine sentence I just wrote, evoking the
>>>>?
> mind
>?
>>>> and
>>>> spirit of my subject." I don't feel that people who are blind
should
>>>>?
> put
>?
>>>> themselves out to pursue something for the sake of pursuit rather
>>>>?
> than to
>?
>>>> do
>>>> a good job any more than as I quoted "Beethoven's Nightmare" the
deaf
>>>> group, they could call themselves quote real musicians end quote.
For
>>>>?
> the
>?
>>>> record, I think they take themselves with a lot of irony, which
makes
>>>>?
> the
>?
>>>> band at least marginally acceptable in my view.
>>>>
>>>> Admittedly, I stand on the more radical edge of this field of
>>>>?
> thought, but
>?
>>>> I'm putting it out boldly for the sake of discussion. If anybody
>>>>?
> writes
>?
>>>> something that makes me change my mind, I'll smile and let you
know,
>>>> though
>>>> please note, I am not particularly trying to say here please
change
>>>>?
> my
>?
>>>> opinion on this matter.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>>
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.o
>>>>?
> rg/>
>?
>>>> stylist mailing list
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>>>>?
> sbcglobal.net
>?
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>>
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>>>>?
> rg/>
>?
>>>> stylist mailing list
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> epix.net
>?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>?
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>>>?
>>
>> Brad Dunse
>>
>> Music is the only language in which you cannot say a mean or
sarcastic
>>?
> thing
>?
>> E Mail: brad at braddunsemusic.com
>>
>> Website: http://www.braddunsemusic.com
>>
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1464323555
>>
>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/braddunse
>>
>> MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/braddunse
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>?
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>?
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