[stylist] social networking and youth slam

Sun Aug 22 03:01:39 UTC 2010

Yes we need to ensure accessibility happens so that everyone has equal
access to whatever, but if we constantly set up things, whether they be
websites or other avenues, specifically for a certain group, aren't we
isolating ourselves from society?  People must realize that products
should be accessible for any user, and if a group or company refuses to
do so, then it makes sense to establish our own product, but must we
always create our own products, or can we not continue to work with
existing companies and products to find solutions?  I will use Facebook
for an example since this seems to be the name that keeps coming up in
the argument, but so many blind people use Facebook with little or no
problems.  Personally I am no fan of Facebook, but where is the real
issue?  The NFB and other groups seem to be attempting to address the
issue as much as they can.  Many, many products and websites are now
usable by the blind and we didn't have to spend money to develop the
same thing.  I call that smart business!  *smile*

Also, there are other disabilities beyond blindness that often require
accommodations and modifications.  Should all cars be drivable off theh
lot by Little People?  Should Spanish and ASL be required for all public
officials?  Should every building be created so that even those with
mobility issues can access it?  Of course, but the world does not always
think from this perspective.  We, the disabled, must ensure our own
accessibility, but we don't have to always start from the ground up.  We
can and should work with existing structures which then allow us to be a
part of society and not isolating ourselves.

Bridgit

-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 12:00 PM
To: stylist at nfbnet.org
Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 34

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: question about philosophy (Priscilla McKinley)
   2. Re: question about philosophy (Judith Bron)
   3. social networking and youth slam (Bridgit Pollpeter)
   4. Re: social networking and youth slam (cheryl echevarria)
   5. Re: social networking and youth slam (Peter Donahue)
   6. Re: question about philosophy (Joe Orozco)
   7. Re: social networking and youth slam (Joe Orozco)
   8. Re: question about philosophy (Donna Hill)
   9. Re: social networking and youth slam (Donna Hill)
  10. Re: question about philosophy (Priscilla McKinley)
  11. Re: question about philosophy (The Crowd)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 12:18:22 -0500
From: Priscilla McKinley <priscilla.mckinley at gmail.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] question about philosophy
Message-ID:
	<AANLkTi=ibDnhFaeOSCbO1DGd9N2p5ne0a3ejeU1ZJe5i at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Listers,

While I don?t have a problem with donations online, the can or cup
sitting on a table gives a negative image.  Throughout history,
persons with disabilities, including blindness, begged for money,
sitting on street corners with cans or tin cups.  The NFB has been
struggling for years to change what it means to be blind, including
ridding the public of such images.  In 1970, Dr. Jernigan gave his
banquet speech entitled ?Blindness: The Myth and the image? in which
he discusses the tin cup:

?How does the tragic view of blindness find expression in modern
society? I would answer that it takes two forms: among the public it
takes one form, and among professionals another. On the public and
popular side, it tends to be conveyed through images of total
dependency and deprivation?images, that is, of the "helpless blind
man." A typical recent example occurred on the well-known TV program,
"Password," in which a number of contestants take turns guessing at
secret words through synonyms and verbal associations. On one such
show the key word to be guessed was "cup." The first cue word offered
was "tin;" but the guesser failed to make the connection. The next cue
word given was "blind"?which immediately brought the response "cup."
There you have it: for all our rehabilitation, all our education, and
all our progress, what comes to the mind of the man in the street when
he thinks of a blind person is the tin cup of the beggar!?

In his speech, Dr. Jernigan goes on to say that we can?t go back to
those times, to those images.  We need to move forward.  In my
opinion, donations are fine, but not charity, which the cans and cups
and containers have represented throughout our history.  In fact, many
people in disability studies believe that the term ?handicap?
originated from that image, the hand to cap, from the beggar, which is
one reason the term disability is now used.

Anyway, just thought I would share.

Priscilla

On 8/20/10, The Crowd <the_crowd at cox.net> wrote:
> Here here, well said Joe!
>
> Atty
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/priscilla.mckin
ley%40gmail.com
>

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 14:03:05 -0400
From: Judith Bron <jbron at optonline.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] question about philosophy
Message-ID: <004f01cb4091$f07adb10$3302a8c0 at dell5150>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=Windows-1252;
	reply-type=original

Priscilla, Is the goal of the minority to be accepted by the majority or
to 
rid every myth surrounding it from the face of the earth?  Life is not a

game of password.  As a matter of fact, I would not have guessed that
blind 
could be synonymous with a cup.  Charities all over the world use a cup,

charity box or some other kind of vessel to collect for their
organizations, 
the needy and the otherwise disadvantaged.  Are you trying to dispel a
myth 
or are you going out of your way to prove that every negative associated

with blindness has been successful in portraying the blind since
forever? 
The guy standing on the street during holiday time is collecting money
using 
a large kettle, charity box or his bare hand.  Tell the bigots to grow
up 
and you keep on fulfilling your goals as a human being.  Judith
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Priscilla McKinley" <priscilla.mckinley at gmail.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] question about philosophy

Listers,

While I don?t have a problem with donations online, the can or cup
sitting on a table gives a negative image.  Throughout history,
persons with disabilities, including blindness, begged for money,
sitting on street corners with cans or tin cups.  The NFB has been
struggling for years to change what it means to be blind, including
ridding the public of such images.  In 1970, Dr. Jernigan gave his
banquet speech entitled ?Blindness: The Myth and the image? in which
he discusses the tin cup:

?How does the tragic view of blindness find expression in modern
society? I would answer that it takes two forms: among the public it
takes one form, and among professionals another. On the public and
popular side, it tends to be conveyed through images of total
dependency and deprivation?images, that is, of the "helpless blind
man." A typical recent example occurred on the well-known TV program,
"Password," in which a number of contestants take turns guessing at
secret words through synonyms and verbal associations. On one such
show the key word to be guessed was "cup." The first cue word offered
was "tin;" but the guesser failed to make the connection. The next cue
word given was "blind"?which immediately brought the response "cup."
There you have it: for all our rehabilitation, all our education, and
all our progress, what comes to the mind of the man in the street when
he thinks of a blind person is the tin cup of the beggar!?

In his speech, Dr. Jernigan goes on to say that we can?t go back to
those times, to those images.  We need to move forward.  In my
opinion, donations are fine, but not charity, which the cans and cups
and containers have represented throughout our history.  In fact, many
people in disability studies believe that the term ?handicap?
originated from that image, the hand to cap, from the beggar, which is
one reason the term disability is now used.

Anyway, just thought I would share.

Priscilla

On 8/20/10, The Crowd <the_crowd at cox.net> wrote:
> Here here, well said Joe!
>
> Atty
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/priscilla.mckin
ley%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
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http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>

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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 13:52:48 -0500
From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [stylist] social networking and youth slam
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP407C91BF2CE029EB8B1FBDC49F0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Peter and others,

I understand the frustration of websites that are set up without
accessibility in mind, and we must continue to push for accessibility
just as the Federation is doing with the Technology Bill of Rights.

If the NFB were doing this solely on their own, I could better
understand the concern for utilizing more accessible means of voting,
however, we are going through an established group and must follow
whatever rules and guidelines that are set.  This does not mean we can
not put a bug in their ear and begin a dialogue over website
accessibility, but nonetheless, it also not fair to exclude ourselves
from potential fundraising because of potential accessibility issues.
It has always been the Federation's stance to charge things head on.
There are multiple ways in which to vote, and many have done so,
bringing us up from 69 to 19.  Plus I know many, many people who are
blind and use websites such as Facebook, and of course now that phones
can be accessible, they are also texting along with the rest of the
world.  That in and of itself may have global ramifications, but that is
a whole other discussion!  *smile*

As for the dollar amount not being worth any possible complications, I
must disagree.  Youth Slam was created to instruct society along with
the blind of just what we are capable of.  Every year kids have an
amazing opportunity to be exposed to ideas and people that are setting a
new standard for us blind.  Without Youth Slam, many kids would never
have this exposure.  It is one thing to tell people that blind people
can do things, it is a whole other thing to show them, and allow them to
experience it.  I know many young adults whose lives have been changed
after attending Youth Slam.

So I believe it is worth the trouble to raise funds in whatever manner
possible to continue to support programs like Youth Slam.  Money raised,
no matter how, is going to change the lives of blind people and society
in the process.  The more blind people we can produce with confidence
and capability, the better chance we have to change perceptions.

Bridgit

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 15:05:02 -0400
From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] social networking and youth slam
Message-ID: <BAY110-DS689D8C5F44A944FAC81ECA19F0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

um the NFB had to sign up to be part of this I think they would know if
this 
is accessible or not since Dr. Maurer did announce it on the Monthly 
Presidential Release and that if he could do it anybody could do it.

The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services!

Cheryl Echevarria
Independent Travel Consultant
C10-10646

http://Echevarriatravel.com
1-866-580-5574
skype: angeldn3

Reservations at echevarriatravel.com
Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
CST-1018299-10
Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise and Travel
Inc.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 2:52 PM
Subject: [stylist] social networking and youth slam

> Peter and others,
>
> I understand the frustration of websites that are set up without
> accessibility in mind, and we must continue to push for accessibility
> just as the Federation is doing with the Technology Bill of Rights.
>
> If the NFB were doing this solely on their own, I could better
> understand the concern for utilizing more accessible means of voting,
> however, we are going through an established group and must follow
> whatever rules and guidelines that are set.  This does not mean we can
> not put a bug in their ear and begin a dialogue over website
> accessibility, but nonetheless, it also not fair to exclude ourselves
> from potential fundraising because of potential accessibility issues.
> It has always been the Federation's stance to charge things head on.
> There are multiple ways in which to vote, and many have done so,
> bringing us up from 69 to 19.  Plus I know many, many people who are
> blind and use websites such as Facebook, and of course now that phones
> can be accessible, they are also texting along with the rest of the
> world.  That in and of itself may have global ramifications, but that
is
> a whole other discussion!  *smile*
>
> As for the dollar amount not being worth any possible complications, I
> must disagree.  Youth Slam was created to instruct society along with
> the blind of just what we are capable of.  Every year kids have an
> amazing opportunity to be exposed to ideas and people that are setting
a
> new standard for us blind.  Without Youth Slam, many kids would never
> have this exposure.  It is one thing to tell people that blind people
> can do things, it is a whole other thing to show them, and allow them
to
> experience it.  I know many young adults whose lives have been changed
> after attending Youth Slam.
>
> So I believe it is worth the trouble to raise funds in whatever manner
> possible to continue to support programs like Youth Slam.  Money
raised,
> no matter how, is going to change the lives of blind people and
society
> in the process.  The more blind people we can produce with confidence
> and capability, the better chance we have to change perceptions.
>
> Bridgit
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> stylist:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%4
0hotmail.com
> 

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 14:11:51 -0500
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] social networking and youth slam
Message-ID: <001701cb409b$8cc76f20$4001a8c0 at yourfsyly0jtwn>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello everyone,

    This also does not mean that we can't just raise the money ourselves

never mind mucking with inaccessible Web resources. If we can develop
the 
technology to enable a blind person to drive a car independently we
should 
have the know-how to develop our own social networking services to serve
as 
a model and to demonstrate how such a service can be made accessible to
all. 
We don't need Pepsi's money all that badly if our position on Web 
accessibility will be compromised in the process.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:52 PM
Subject: [stylist] social networking and youth slam

Peter and others,

I understand the frustration of websites that are set up without
accessibility in mind, and we must continue to push for accessibility
just as the Federation is doing with the Technology Bill of Rights.

If the NFB were doing this solely on their own, I could better
understand the concern for utilizing more accessible means of voting,
however, we are going through an established group and must follow
whatever rules and guidelines that are set.  This does not mean we can
not put a bug in their ear and begin a dialogue over website
accessibility, but nonetheless, it also not fair to exclude ourselves
from potential fundraising because of potential accessibility issues.
It has always been the Federation's stance to charge things head on.
There are multiple ways in which to vote, and many have done so,
bringing us up from 69 to 19.  Plus I know many, many people who are
blind and use websites such as Facebook, and of course now that phones
can be accessible, they are also texting along with the rest of the
world.  That in and of itself may have global ramifications, but that is
a whole other discussion!  *smile*

As for the dollar amount not being worth any possible complications, I
must disagree.  Youth Slam was created to instruct society along with
the blind of just what we are capable of.  Every year kids have an
amazing opportunity to be exposed to ideas and people that are setting a
new standard for us blind.  Without Youth Slam, many kids would never
have this exposure.  It is one thing to tell people that blind people
can do things, it is a whole other thing to show them, and allow them to
experience it.  I know many young adults whose lives have been changed
after attending Youth Slam.

So I believe it is worth the trouble to raise funds in whatever manner
possible to continue to support programs like Youth Slam.  Money raised,
no matter how, is going to change the lives of blind people and society
in the process.  The more blind people we can produce with confidence
and capability, the better chance we have to change perceptions.

Bridgit
_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>

stylist mailing list
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global.net 

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 16:49:34 -0400
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] question about philosophy
Message-ID: <94B68AE810DF4C029D6F3DED7019AE2F at Rufus>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

If the group was just sitting in front of a store holding a donation
cup, I
might be bothered.  I mean, what a wasted opportunity to pass out
brochures
and such.  Yet it sounds as though the cup is only a feature of an
educational outreach event.  For several years I helped the Texas
Association of Blind Students organize their annual Southern Strums
fundraiser at National Convention.  Last year there was no space for the
division to hold its event within the hotel.  We switched it to a public
venue, and in my eyes this was probably better since the event would
attract
the general public in addition to fellow Federation members.  People
wondered about whether our donations would go down, and on the contrary,
one
lady came by and dropped a hundred-dollar check for the division, among
other contributions.  Did she donate because she felt for the blind
group?
I don't know whether she did or not, but I also know that the presence
or
absence of a donation cup on a table where there is also literature
about
blind empowerment is probably not going to dramatically change the
opinion
of the average person walking past.  Opinions will not hinge on whether
the
group is taking donations but rather on the type of interaction the
group
has with the people who stop to chat.  And, it's a fundraising strategy
completely independent of stereotypes.  Do we not think private agencies
not
use certain emotional tactics to get people to donate for the care of
foster
children?  Military veterans?  Cancer patients?  I doubt any of these
people
would want to inspire pity from the people from whom donations are
sought.
It's the world of nonprofits and more to the point, the realm of
fundraising.  We'll change minds and automatic associations by exuding
confidence, not by attempting to meet every acceptable definition of
what is
normal to the general public, because that would indeed be a long and
arduous road to follow.

Best,

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Priscilla McKinley
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:18 PM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] question about philosophy

Listers,

While I don't have a problem with donations online, the can or cup
sitting on a table gives a negative image.  Throughout history,
persons with disabilities, including blindness, begged for money,
sitting on street corners with cans or tin cups.  The NFB has been
struggling for years to change what it means to be blind, including
ridding the public of such images.  In 1970, Dr. Jernigan gave his
banquet speech entitled "Blindness: The Myth and the image" in which
he discusses the tin cup:

"How does the tragic view of blindness find expression in modern
society? I would answer that it takes two forms: among the public it
takes one form, and among professionals another. On the public and
popular side, it tends to be conveyed through images of total
dependency and deprivation-images, that is, of the "helpless blind
man." A typical recent example occurred on the well-known TV program,
"Password," in which a number of contestants take turns guessing at
secret words through synonyms and verbal associations. On one such
show the key word to be guessed was "cup." The first cue word offered
was "tin;" but the guesser failed to make the connection. The next cue
word given was "blind"-which immediately brought the response "cup."
There you have it: for all our rehabilitation, all our education, and
all our progress, what comes to the mind of the man in the street when
he thinks of a blind person is the tin cup of the beggar!"

In his speech, Dr. Jernigan goes on to say that we can't go back to
those times, to those images.  We need to move forward.  In my
opinion, donations are fine, but not charity, which the cans and cups
and containers have represented throughout our history.  In fact, many
people in disability studies believe that the term "handicap"
originated from that image, the hand to cap, from the beggar, which is
one reason the term disability is now used.

Anyway, just thought I would share.

Priscilla

On 8/20/10, The Crowd <the_crowd at cox.net> wrote:
> Here here, well said Joe!
>
> Atty
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org 
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/priscil
la.mckinley%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site:
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org 
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>

stylist mailing list
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http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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o%40gmail.com

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 17:02:18 -0400
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] social networking and youth slam
Message-ID: <659A73BDED1248F1B6A150EBB34828E3 at Rufus>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Peter,

This is my issue with web accessibility.  I don't know that everyone
will
ever be able to agree on what it means to be accessible, because there
are
varying levels of computer skills and screen reader features.  So far I
must
say you are the only person I've seen complain about the accessibility
of
the Pepsi Challenge project, which does not mean your complaint is
irrelevant.  It means there must surely be others who are experiencing
similar problems, but I have not yet heard a valid reason for why the
CAPTCHA feature is posing such a problem.  There are two services that
help
blind users translate the CAPTCHA codes.  Even deaf and blind users can
have
the text transmitted without bothering with the audio.  My point here is
not
to turn your concerns away.  They are valid, but technology is changing.
To
me it sounds as though you are reluctant to change with it, and in the
meantime should we turn away from a free means of earning $250,000 just
because we want to prove a point?  If we don't take advantage of this
project while it lasts, someone else will, and would you actually argue
that
those other projects are more important than the future potential of our
math and science enthusiasts?  These are, after all, the people on whom
we
are relying to build that there car for blind folk.  For every minute
you
spent writing your flurry of posts objecting the Pepsi project, you
could
have been spending the time communicating with Pepsi.  You're the web
development guy who could have expertly conveyed to them what is needed.
I'm having difficulty feeling empathetic with you on this one.

Respectfully,

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 3:12 PM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] social networking and youth slam

Hello everyone,

    This also does not mean that we can't just raise the money 
ourselves 
never mind mucking with inaccessible Web resources. If we can 
develop the 
technology to enable a blind person to drive a car 
independently we should 
have the know-how to develop our own social networking services 
to serve as 
a model and to demonstrate how such a service can be made 
accessible to all. 
We don't need Pepsi's money all that badly if our position on Web 
accessibility will be compromised in the process.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:52 PM
Subject: [stylist] social networking and youth slam

Peter and others,

I understand the frustration of websites that are set up without
accessibility in mind, and we must continue to push for accessibility
just as the Federation is doing with the Technology Bill of Rights.

If the NFB were doing this solely on their own, I could better
understand the concern for utilizing more accessible means of voting,
however, we are going through an established group and must follow
whatever rules and guidelines that are set.  This does not mean we can
not put a bug in their ear and begin a dialogue over website
accessibility, but nonetheless, it also not fair to exclude ourselves
from potential fundraising because of potential accessibility issues.
It has always been the Federation's stance to charge things head on.
There are multiple ways in which to vote, and many have done so,
bringing us up from 69 to 19.  Plus I know many, many people who are
blind and use websites such as Facebook, and of course now that phones
can be accessible, they are also texting along with the rest of the
world.  That in and of itself may have global ramifications, but that is
a whole other discussion!  *smile*

As for the dollar amount not being worth any possible complications, I
must disagree.  Youth Slam was created to instruct society along with
the blind of just what we are capable of.  Every year kids have an
amazing opportunity to be exposed to ideas and people that are setting a
new standard for us blind.  Without Youth Slam, many kids would never
have this exposure.  It is one thing to tell people that blind people
can do things, it is a whole other thing to show them, and allow them to
experience it.  I know many young adults whose lives have been changed
after attending Youth Slam.

So I believe it is worth the trouble to raise funds in whatever manner
possible to continue to support programs like Youth Slam.  Money raised,
no matter how, is going to change the lives of blind people and society
in the process.  The more blind people we can produce with confidence
and capability, the better chance we have to change perceptions.

Bridgit
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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 17:44:06 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] question about philosophy
Message-ID: <4C6EF726.5000207 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Amen, Judith.

Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
Ezine Articles:
http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=D._W._Hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885

Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.

Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4

Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org

On 8/20/2010 2:03 PM, Judith Bron wrote:
> Priscilla, Is the goal of the minority to be accepted by the majority 
> or to rid every myth surrounding it from the face of the earth?  Life 
> is not a game of password.  As a matter of fact, I would not have 
> guessed that blind could be synonymous with a cup.  Charities all over

> the world use a cup, charity box or some other kind of vessel to 
> collect for their organizations, the needy and the otherwise 
> disadvantaged.  Are you trying to dispel a myth or are you going out 
> of your way to prove that every negative associated with blindness has

> been successful in portraying the blind since forever? The guy 
> standing on the street during holiday time is collecting money using a

> large kettle, charity box or his bare hand.  Tell the bigots to grow 
> up and you keep on fulfilling your goals as a human being.  Judith
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Priscilla McKinley" 
> <priscilla.mckinley at gmail.com>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] question about philosophy
>
>
> Listers,
>
> While I don?t have a problem with donations online, the can or cup
> sitting on a table gives a negative image.  Throughout history,
> persons with disabilities, including blindness, begged for money,
> sitting on street corners with cans or tin cups.  The NFB has been
> struggling for years to change what it means to be blind, including
> ridding the public of such images.  In 1970, Dr. Jernigan gave his
> banquet speech entitled ?Blindness: The Myth and the image? in which
> he discusses the tin cup:
>
> ?How does the tragic view of blindness find expression in modern
> society? I would answer that it takes two forms: among the public it
> takes one form, and among professionals another. On the public and
> popular side, it tends to be conveyed through images of total
> dependency and deprivation?images, that is, of the "helpless blind
> man." A typical recent example occurred on the well-known TV program,
> "Password," in which a number of contestants take turns guessing at
> secret words through synonyms and verbal associations. On one such
> show the key word to be guessed was "cup." The first cue word offered
> was "tin;" but the guesser failed to make the connection. The next cue
> word given was "blind"?which immediately brought the response "cup."
> There you have it: for all our rehabilitation, all our education, and
> all our progress, what comes to the mind of the man in the street when
> he thinks of a blind person is the tin cup of the beggar!?
>
> In his speech, Dr. Jernigan goes on to say that we can?t go back to
> those times, to those images.  We need to move forward.  In my
> opinion, donations are fine, but not charity, which the cans and cups
> and containers have represented throughout our history.  In fact, many
> people in disability studies believe that the term ?handicap?
> originated from that image, the hand to cap, from the beggar, which is
> one reason the term disability is now used.
>
> Anyway, just thought I would share.
>
> Priscilla
>
>
>
>
>
> On 8/20/10, The Crowd <the_crowd at cox.net> wrote:
>> Here here, well said Joe!
>>
>> Atty
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org 
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/priscilla.mckin
ley%40gmail.com 
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org 
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org 
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
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> stylist:
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>
>
>
>
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------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 17:45:57 -0400
From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] social networking and youth slam
Message-ID: <4C6EF795.4050203 at epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Well put, Bridget!
Donna

Read Donna's articles on
Suite 101:
www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
Ezine Articles:
http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=D._W._Hill
American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885

Connect with Donna on
Twitter:
www.twitter.com/dewhill
LinkedIn:
www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
FaceBook:
www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.

Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
Apple I-Tunes
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
4

Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
www.padnfb.org

On 8/20/2010 2:52 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote:
> Peter and others,
>
> I understand the frustration of websites that are set up without
> accessibility in mind, and we must continue to push for accessibility
> just as the Federation is doing with the Technology Bill of Rights.
>
> If the NFB were doing this solely on their own, I could better
> understand the concern for utilizing more accessible means of voting,
> however, we are going through an established group and must follow
> whatever rules and guidelines that are set.  This does not mean we can
> not put a bug in their ear and begin a dialogue over website
> accessibility, but nonetheless, it also not fair to exclude ourselves
> from potential fundraising because of potential accessibility issues.
> It has always been the Federation's stance to charge things head on.
> There are multiple ways in which to vote, and many have done so,
> bringing us up from 69 to 19.  Plus I know many, many people who are
> blind and use websites such as Facebook, and of course now that phones
> can be accessible, they are also texting along with the rest of the
> world.  That in and of itself may have global ramifications, but that
is
> a whole other discussion!  *smile*
>
> As for the dollar amount not being worth any possible complications, I
> must disagree.  Youth Slam was created to instruct society along with
> the blind of just what we are capable of.  Every year kids have an
> amazing opportunity to be exposed to ideas and people that are setting
a
> new standard for us blind.  Without Youth Slam, many kids would never
> have this exposure.  It is one thing to tell people that blind people
> can do things, it is a whole other thing to show them, and allow them
to
> experience it.  I know many young adults whose lives have been changed
> after attending Youth Slam.
>
> So I believe it is worth the trouble to raise funds in whatever manner
> possible to continue to support programs like Youth Slam.  Money
raised,
> no matter how, is going to change the lives of blind people and
society
> in the process.  The more blind people we can produce with confidence
> and capability, the better chance we have to change perceptions.
>
> Bridgit
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
>
http://www.nfb-writers-division.org<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/
>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
>
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x.net
>
>
>
>
> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
> Database version: 6.15700
> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>
>    

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------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 17:00:04 -0500
From: Priscilla McKinley <priscilla.mckinley at gmail.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] question about philosophy
Message-ID:
	<AANLkTinFOfzdqiBjrVw8PCkkjwLj++v5uvNSa3-S79XR at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. *smile*  As a
person who has had severl fundraisers over the years, including
selling calendars, hot dogs, candy bars, shot glasses, Capitol Steps
tickets, to name just a few, we never had a container sitting on the
table where people could drop money.  We would accept donations that
were given to us but that meant the people had to interact in some
way.  They couldn't just walk by and ignore us, dropping money in a
jar.  They had to talk to us, to hand us the money.  Similarly, people
who donate online will be at our website and see positive images.
Plus, they have to make a conscious decision to go there.  (If
dropping money in a container, some people  might not even remember
the name of the group to which they gave money.)

When I was living on the East Coast and was a member of a chapter
there, we discussed this topic in great detail.  We talked about blind
beggers in the past and the idea of the tin cup.  People would walk
by, dig into their pockets, and put change in the cup, pitying the
blind.  As a chapter, we decided to empty our pockets for other
organizations instead.  The chapter president gave everyone a plastic
container and told us to drop our change in their over the next month
and bring the containers back to the next meeting, which was in
November.  After receiving the containers and putting it in the
account, the chapter presented the money in check form for an
organization that was providing holiday meals and gifts for struggling
families.  Instead of taking, we were giving.

While I'm no expert on this topic, I know how I viewed blindness
before I lost my sight, and I see the same reactions from others today
now that I am blind.  There are a lot of organizational things that I
don't agree with, but I would agree with Dr. Jernigan that that image
needs to be changed.  Even today, I don't think it has.  Like someone
said on here, the car that the blind can drive is supposed to
represent the positives, the future.  Well, I believe the cup or
container just sitting there symbolizes the past, the negatives.  But
again, that is just one opinion out of many.  Perhaps someone should
write a letter to Doctor Maurer so he can read it at one of his
leadership seminars.  I'm sure there would be lots of opinions, as
there are for almost every letter read at the seminars.

Thanks,

Priscilla

On 8/20/10, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
> If the group was just sitting in front of a store holding a donation
cup, I
> might be bothered.  I mean, what a wasted opportunity to pass out
brochures
> and such.  Yet it sounds as though the cup is only a feature of an
> educational outreach event.  For several years I helped the Texas
> Association of Blind Students organize their annual Southern Strums
> fundraiser at National Convention.  Last year there was no space for
the
> division to hold its event within the hotel.  We switched it to a
public
> venue, and in my eyes this was probably better since the event would
attract
> the general public in addition to fellow Federation members.  People
> wondered about whether our donations would go down, and on the
contrary, one
> lady came by and dropped a hundred-dollar check for the division,
among
> other contributions.  Did she donate because she felt for the blind
group?
> I don't know whether she did or not, but I also know that the presence
or
> absence of a donation cup on a table where there is also literature
about
> blind empowerment is probably not going to dramatically change the
opinion
> of the average person walking past.  Opinions will not hinge on
whether the
> group is taking donations but rather on the type of interaction the
group
> has with the people who stop to chat.  And, it's a fundraising
strategy
> completely independent of stereotypes.  Do we not think private
agencies not
> use certain emotional tactics to get people to donate for the care of
foster
> children?  Military veterans?  Cancer patients?  I doubt any of these
people
> would want to inspire pity from the people from whom donations are
sought.
> It's the world of nonprofits and more to the point, the realm of
> fundraising.  We'll change minds and automatic associations by exuding
> confidence, not by attempting to meet every acceptable definition of
what is
> normal to the general public, because that would indeed be a long and
> arduous road to follow.
>
> Best,
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Priscilla McKinley
> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:18 PM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] question about philosophy
>
> Listers,
>
> While I don't have a problem with donations online, the can or cup
> sitting on a table gives a negative image.  Throughout history,
> persons with disabilities, including blindness, begged for money,
> sitting on street corners with cans or tin cups.  The NFB has been
> struggling for years to change what it means to be blind, including
> ridding the public of such images.  In 1970, Dr. Jernigan gave his
> banquet speech entitled "Blindness: The Myth and the image" in which
> he discusses the tin cup:
>
> "How does the tragic view of blindness find expression in modern
> society? I would answer that it takes two forms: among the public it
> takes one form, and among professionals another. On the public and
> popular side, it tends to be conveyed through images of total
> dependency and deprivation-images, that is, of the "helpless blind
> man." A typical recent example occurred on the well-known TV program,
> "Password," in which a number of contestants take turns guessing at
> secret words through synonyms and verbal associations. On one such
> show the key word to be guessed was "cup." The first cue word offered
> was "tin;" but the guesser failed to make the connection. The next cue
> word given was "blind"-which immediately brought the response "cup."
> There you have it: for all our rehabilitation, all our education, and
> all our progress, what comes to the mind of the man in the street when
> he thinks of a blind person is the tin cup of the beggar!"
>
> In his speech, Dr. Jernigan goes on to say that we can't go back to
> those times, to those images.  We need to move forward.  In my
> opinion, donations are fine, but not charity, which the cans and cups
> and containers have represented throughout our history.  In fact, many
> people in disability studies believe that the term "handicap"
> originated from that image, the hand to cap, from the beggar, which is
> one reason the term disability is now used.
>
> Anyway, just thought I would share.
>
> Priscilla
>
>
>
>
>
> On 8/20/10, The Crowd <the_crowd at cox.net> wrote:
>> Here here, well said Joe!
>>
>> Atty
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/priscil
> la.mckinley%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for stylist:
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> o%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
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------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 08:10:20 -0500
From: "The Crowd" <the_crowd at cox.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [stylist] question about philosophy
Message-ID: <949BF339192447E0AD114389CC4F7E63 at JazminRainPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
	reply-type=response

The last time I worked a meet and greet with a plastic jar for change
and 
donations, guess what? Right across from us, working the same door, with
the 
same jar was the "Make A wish" foundation.

I went over and put a buck in their jar, then they came and put one in
mine.

I never once thought, why those lazy begging pethetic kids. And they
didn't 
think that of us.

Especially when you are engaging those folks walking by with things
like, 
"Want to buy a flower for Mothers Day? Or "We have ghost, pumpkin and
witch 
suckers!"

Never once will yu ever hear, "Will you give us money?" "Can you support
the 
NFB?" "Anything will do!"

"Will work for food!" Oh wait, that's the guy around the corner. A
sighted 
one!

So I say this, anyone who has a problem with a plastic, jar sitting on a

table full of informational litature and products to sell and equates it
to 
a blind beggar, or who feels it being there is demeaning in some way,
has 
issues in themselves, blind or not.

Atty

------------------------------

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End of stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 34
***************************************